Clash of Divinity - Advanced Mafia - Day 7 - Reckoning

[lolguy26]

DEADLINE HAS BEEN SET.

 

Tuesday 12 pm eastern time or 5 pm GMT.

 

GET YOUR VOTES ON!

 

could you possibly do one of those time counter things please?

[Pralaya]

Official Vote Count

Andrej (3): Turin, Dap, Dice
Chuckles (2): WBK, Darthe
GF (3): Rag, Andrej, Chaelca

Not Voting: Ley, Goldy, GF, Hallia, Dap
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?p0=179&iso=20140128T12

[Graendals favourite]

Ragnarok, I think it meant, time to get the game going, though for my part, saturday happened.

[Darthe]

The chuckles train isn't moving like I hoped but then, neither is the game.  I get the GF votes but before I switch can someone explain AJ a bit more?  I don't see anything abnormal there.

[Andrej]

I'll be pretty friggin' pissed if I get piled on for being the only one actually attempting to get this game rolling.

 

The votes on me are baseless and full of false/twisted facts.

 

Turin - Early set-up spec is a scum move and my list was done too early in the game.

Dap - I'm buddying him somehow and apparently linked with lolguy. Says I feel 'off'

Dice - Says I backtracked on a read when it was clearly implied in my first post.

 

Anyway, I'll reiterate my feel for players.

 

Turin gets a scummy vibe for basically saying anything and everything I have done this game is a mafia tell although I think it should be self-evident that I am trying to generate chatter. Any kind of chatter. This game is crawling.

 

Dap is weird. His reaction to lolguy's original vote was strange to me. He immediately assumed it was a buddy attempt and his repeated speil about being recruited is odd. Also don't like his linking of me and lolguy on false pretenses. Says that because lolguy mentioned one wagon and not mine we are suddenly partners. Some haven't really said crap all game and about any wagons.

 

I liked Dice's prodding of Ley early on but his reasons for voting me are sort of sketchy. He claims I retracted my stance on Hallia which is false. It was implied in my original post. I'm thinking perhaps he misunderstood the phrase I used? "Too jokey for my liking" should clearly indicate negativity, so I don't see how I changed or retracted.

 

Chae is supernoob.

Lolguy & GF are par for the course.

Hallia too unfortunately.

WBK if town needs to step up.

Rags seems okay.

Darthe too. Wish both of you would get more involved though.

 

Who have I missed?

 

Would be fine lynching GF or lolguy frankly.

 

I think a Dap lynch would be awesome as well. My gut just does flips reading what he is trying go throw my way.

[Leyrann]

Yay DM. Press multiquote, nothing happening. I'll just do it this way then.

 

@Chael: If you didn't expect long posts, you're lucky Desp isn't in this game. The posts here will get longer than they currently are, but those from Desp are always EVEN longer.

 

@Deadline: Wow. I wanted to reread before voting, but that's not going to happen if it's that soon... Between Sunday night and Wednesday midday I NOWHERE have enough time to reread the full thread... And even Wednesday is a close one in reread time. Last check in from me before deadline will be tomorrow morning around 7 AM GMT, maybe (but don't count on it) one around 3.30 PM GMT.

[Darthe]

Zeus attacks Brazil! We do not have much time !

 

 

Nobody has mentioned it so... anyone know what this is about?

 

Also AJ I have the most posts in the game.  And probs as much content.  Just isn't tons of interactions yet because of the number of inactives.

[GoldeneyesND]

I think a couple of these games started sooner than everyone thought they would. There are like 5 or 6 games running concurrently at present and I know a few people are in a couple of those so that may be affecting things. Still, that's not really an excuse. So, as it appears there are 3 separate factions and the mod states it's a recruit game I suspect everyone is treading water under the day ends so they can see what everything looks like on Day 2. Also, I would have appreciated being able to speculate on this, but that got shut down when AJ got fos'd for talking about it. That actually makes me wonder why he was shut down for it? It's hard enough getting a convo going in a stagnant game without getting voted for it.

 

Actually, I re-read some of Turin's posts and for some reason he's acting like there is a mafia element? There are three deities listed in the setup. The game is called clash of deities. The mod called it a recruitment game, yet you want to scumhunt? I feel like there's something I don't know about this game that you do.

 

Also, why is set-up spec inherently scummy?

 

Plz explain.

My opinion on EARLY setup speculation is that it gives the mafia something to distract the town from doing what they should be doing. looking for the mafia. guessing about the setup is not going to find the mafia. In fact it takes the discussion away from what it should be about. Seeing what people are saying and doing on thread.

Additionally it gives the mafia the opportunity to misdirect the town by injecting bogus ideas. This is the more dangerous thing. overall better to wait until we actually know something than to waste time guessing about every possibility. 

 

 

I simply don't understand why you vote AJ for talking about setup in a game whose setup is not known? It's probably the easiest way to catch someone slipping. Yes, I read that he asked what was inherently wrong with talking setup, but he asked after you got on him for engaging in setup talk in this game. Please explain this Turin.

[Turin Turambar]

Waiting to have truck washed, so have a couple minutes. More will Probly have to wait until later.

 

AJ, I never said nor implied to my knowledge that everything you have done is a mafia tell. There were three specific things that pinged. First early setup talk. It usually plays into mafia hands allowing misdirection. It is also an easy way for mafia to act like they are involved without having to make any statements they can be held to. Second was the vote on GF. It struck me as odd that you voted him for low post count when there was a better reason imo in the weird voting post and you were well aware that he had very recently lurked heavily as a town pr. It looked like a easy reason to vote. The fact you still have your vote there yet are nudging at dap, hallia and myself further strikes me as odd. The third thing was your read list. I thought it rather early to make a complete list. That you had to make so.many null or no lean I think backs this up.

 

You asked earlier about chuckles and someone else. Either dap or hallia I think. Chuckles has earned the attention he has received so far IMO. I am not sure about hallia. She just lurked to victory for the second time in a game I was in. So I am leery of her ATM. Oh the other thing was about dap linking you and chuckles. I don't see that myself.

 

I have a question for you. If I am "tunnelling", dap is weird, hallia is too jokey, why are you still voting GF?

 

That emo burst didn't really make me feel any better about you.

[Turin Turambar]

Golden, if you want to talk setup by all means go ahead.

I am just one person in the game. I have stated my opinion on the matter. I think it is a bad idea for the reasons I mentioned earlier. In ANY game on D1. There will generally be plenty to talk about without going there.

 

As to your point about my using the word mafia to say who we are looking for. I generally look at the game the same way regardless of setup. The bad guys that we are trying to eliminate are the mafia until told otherwise. I don't usually use the "S" word. Just my choice. So I pretty.much refer to all the bad guys as mafia. So if I am looking for the bad guys, then I am looking for the mafia.

 

AJ says he has a mafia vibe from me for my in game actions and yet he is still voting what amounts to his own policy lynch. Do you find that odd?

[Turin Turambar]

The fact that we don't know the setup is exactly why it is worse to guess at this junction. Better IMO to play normally for D1 and go from there. The us one fact about every mafia game. There is an uninformed majority and a informed minority. Early setup speculation plays into mafia hands. Sometimes disastrously so.

 

I have said my peace on this. You do as you want.

[WolfbrotherKronos]

Golden, if you want to talk setup by all means go ahead.

I am just one person in the game. I have stated my opinion on the matter. I think it is a bad idea for the reasons I mentioned earlier. In ANY game on D1. There will generally be plenty to talk about without going there.

 

As to your point about my using the word mafia to say who we are looking for. I generally look at the game the same way regardless of setup. The bad guys that we are trying to eliminate are the mafia until told otherwise. I don't usually use the "S" word. Just my choice. So I pretty.much refer to all the bad guys as mafia. So if I am looking for the bad guys, then I am looking for the mafia.

 

AJ says he has a mafia vibe from me for my in game actions and yet he is still voting what amounts to his own policy lynch. Do you find that odd?

Confused by the bolded....what do you mean?

[Andrej]

"It usually plays into mafia hands allowing misdirection. It is also an easy way for mafia to act like they are involved without having to make any statements they can be held to."

 

Statements like me saying that I believe there is no NKs? Which in a way could be seen as me possibly knowing more of the set-up. I actually feel somewhat better of you that you didn't immediately jump on this. Or statements like me saying that I believe this game is a race to majority over the standard town vs. mafia game? I think I have made fairly definitive statements to be held to so your point there doesn't apply in this situation.

 

"It struck me as odd that you voted him for low post count when there was a better reason imo in the weird voting post and you were well aware that he had very recently lurked heavily as a town pr."

 

I have not mentioned anyone's post count this game. I said simply that I would be willing to lynch GF based solely on his lurking meta. Yes I am aware that he has a PR in his last game where he played similarly, but that is irrelevant to this game and his alignment/role here. Also, I am not just using the last game we played in as my sample. Every game I have played in with him it is the same. I do not find his playstyle helpful to my wincon and therefore I am willing to lynch him as an ineffective member of my team or as a possible opposing force. Does saying so make me sound like a douche? Probably, but I guess it comes with the territory. The name of the game is finding the bad guys through a collective pool of information based on interactions, voting patterns, revealed alignments and rhetoric. If you are not adding to this pool then you are a hinderance. It's as simple as that. If GF has a legitimate reason to stay alive (such as a PR) then I would expect him to defend himself. You are acting like my singular vote is going to cause his damnation.

 

"It looked like a easy reason to vote."

 

I can see how you're saying that. I have also said the same in regards to your original statements given at the time you voted me.

 

"I have a question for you. If I am "tunnelling", dap is weird, hallia is too jokey, why are you still voting GF?"

 

I didn't say you were tunneling me, so I don't know why you are using the quotations. I think I have explained myself amply enough on GF. I have made my statements in regards to the other players you mention and there has been little commentary on them. If the play continues as it is now I don't think town has a very good chance this game.

[Darthe]

Turin's responses look really town here.  That's a problem for me because I suck at reading him.

[GoldeneyesND]

Golden, if you want to talk setup by all means go ahead.

I am just one person in the game. I have stated my opinion on the matter. I think it is a bad idea for the reasons I mentioned earlier. In ANY game on D1. There will generally be plenty to talk about without going there.

 

As to your point about my using the word mafia to say who we are looking for. I generally look at the game the same way regardless of setup. The bad guys that we are trying to eliminate are the mafia until told otherwise. I don't usually use the "S" word. Just my choice. So I pretty.much refer to all the bad guys as mafia. So if I am looking for the bad guys, then I am looking for the mafia.

 

AJ says he has a mafia vibe from me for my in game actions and yet he is still voting what amounts to his own policy lynch. Do you find that odd?

 

I found your use of the term mafia interesting, I figured you were going to say it was a general way of thinking, but how exactly can you refer to mafia in general when the setup specifically refers to three possible separate factions?

 

I don't necessarily think it pings that he thinks you're scummy and is voting someone else. You could be his #2 read whereas he has gf as his #1 scum read. I myself am not calling you scummy, I'm trying to figure the game out cause I don't really have the best set of reads right now other than I'm leaning uninformed majority on you. Also, upon reading the above and Aj's explanation, I tend to think he's informed in some way. The best thing to look at in his setup talk is the fact that he makes assumptions. He assumes there are no NKs and he assumes there are 3 factions racing to gain members. I dunno why he would do that.

[Turin Turambar]

AJ you did say that I was saying everything you do is a mafia tell. To me that is kind of the definition of tunnelling.

[Turin Turambar]

Kronos, I believe that AJ stated he had a mafia vibe from me due to things o had actually said in this game. All the reasons he has given for voting GF have been meta IMO. I would think you would vote for in game reasons over mets reasons. Therefore his vote staying on GF seems odd to me. I asked Golden how he felt about that.

[WolfbrotherKronos]

Ok thanks...brain is still fuzzy.

[Andrej]

He assumes there are no NKs and he assumes there are 3 factions racing to gain members. I dunno why he would do that.

 

In my mind it's a numbers game. The flavor (OP, game title, etc) indicates that there are 3 warring Gods. To me this signifies 3 separate recruiters. In the OP the Fire God dude converts someone to his cause and tells him to go do his bidding or whatever.

 

Yes, I admit that I am assuming a lot but I will lay out my thought process so you can understand or at least have some insight. Take it as you want. If you feel like I know more about this set-up then place your vote and let's get this lynch over with. Town is probably screwed as it is this game unless the general play seriously improves. But when I do flip town, hopefully you guys will pay more heed to my thoughts.

 

I think we have 3 recruiters. I believe that each Night the recruiters have an attempt to convert another player to their side. There is probably a percentage of success/fail that might be variable depending on how they(mods) set the game up. I asked a question earlier about whether the recruitment depended on whether or not the God attempting to recruit was your character's specific deity. I got a PAFO, but thinking on it more I don't see how that would fit and it would make it more or less a game of chance/luck for the recruiters. With the thought that there are 3 separate factions that are looking to recruit, this leads me to believe that there won't be a NK function in this game, or at least not from the recruiters. There could be a Vig or something out there like I mentioned earlier. I don't see how you could balance the game if there are 3 separate anti-town forces and all 3 possess a NK/the ability to recruit. Town would be wiped out in no time. I think what it is going to come down to is a war of 3 different cults near the end in an attempt to lynch other opposing cult members. A race to majority, like I said. Now seeing it this way I think the game is going to be very hard for town to win. Doubly so with the amount of people not posting. It would almost be preferable to get recruited and then try to win with that God Later in the game team tells are going to be very important and I think once each faction has a few members it will become quickly apparent who is on whose side.

 

For example, let's say I am lynched today: The game goes into N1 with 12 players.

 

9 Town, 3 Gods.

 

All 3 Gods are successful recruiting.

 

D2 starts with 6 Town, 2 for God L, 2 for God W, 2 for God F.

 

Another player gets lynched, take your pick from whichever team. Let's say God F's recruit gets strung up. N2 starts with 6 Town, 2L(ightning for Zeus), 2W(ater for the Indian god, and 1F(ire for the Ra dude).

 

All 3 Gods are successful again, D3 starts with 3 Town, 3 God L, 3 God W, 2 God F with a total of 11 players.

 

Are you seeing it now? I think lynches are the only killing mechanic in this game or else the player pool will be reduced too quickly, beyond that it's a race to gain majority of the total number of players. It's actually a pretty awesome concept but I think nearly impossible for town to win, especially if we don't lynch a God or two right off the bat. And this doesn't even account for the chance that they might have already recruited a few players which are in essence no longer town.

 

But anyway, that's my take on the mechanics. I'm sort of a geek when it comes to trying to crack set-ups. Call me mafia if you want but I genuinely feel like I have tried to invest myself in solving this game and am generally saddened by the lack of other players participation.

[dapianoplay3r]

I think you missed the reason I was voting you AJ. It was for the set up talk, basically what Turin is voting you for. I was just adding the buddy/link angle cos I noticed that as well.

If I was truely just voting the buddy linking angle I would vote lol guy

[Andrej]

I missed the point that you never stated, Dap? That's odd.

[dapianoplay3r]

Maybe in a bit

But in a nutshell

Chuckles is buddying me in a weird way, he's avoiding stances on AJ, and his play feels hollow

AJ is posting reads of people but basing them on trivial things, he did the setup thing, then goes after Turin after he was called out on the setup stuff by Turin, he also feels off

My first post you started at me for. I didn't even mention the buddying from your side at all

It was the list and stuff with Turin

[Andrej]

Ah. Statement retracted then, I don't remember that one specifically. The way you listed them also doesn't lend too much that it was the primary reason for your vote either.

[dapianoplay3r]

That's your own fault, you even quoted it at the time, but you got so caught up panicking that I even slightly linked you with chuckles that you spent the next 6 pages trying to prove that as false as you could and forgot what this was really about.

 

My vote stays

[Andrej]

Panicking

 

This guy needs the rope when I flip town.

 

So you admit that you were linking me to lolguy without anything to prove it besides your own convoluted POV? The linkage was weak at best and served with a poor foundation. He and I are partners because he didn't comment on my wagon but had on GF's. Well, let's look back at who else posted around that time and didn't comment on either wagon. Or anything at all for that matter. Does that link them to me as well? Of course not.

 

I want everyone to look back at Dap's reaction to lolguy's vote on him earlier. Why automatically assume he was buddying you? That seems like a very squirmy way to react to one vote, as if you didn't like the attention you were suddenly garnering and tried to reversely cast it in a negative light. Or a quick way to distance. It's curious that looking at this reaction that he is the one specifically you decided to tie to me. Add that to your general lack of contribution to this game besides opportunistically joining my wagon and BOOM. I think Dap is a perfect lynch.

 

unvote; vote Dap