The Greatest Shadow: The Sharpest Tool

[Barid Bel Medar]

Fairly straight foward. 

 

Which was the DO's most effective tool. 

 

Really, this thread isn't a strictly objective one. Basically, who was your favourite tool of the Shadow? 

 

Be it because they were hilariously interesting, diabolically evil, totally insane, most powerful or because they showed a kinder side rather than a moustache twirling villain. 
 

Vote for your favourite character from the Shadow and if you feel so inclined, tell everyone why they are your favourite. 

 

This is not a thread for debate. If you don't agree with someone's opinion - don't debate it. We have plenty of other threads to debate the characters. 

 

This is a simple vote to see what the fandom liked or did not like. 

 

The only replies to posts should be : "I agree with this reasoning" or informing somone that they have made a mistake about the content. (Note, that does NOT include interpretations of certain characters. This is purely textual mistakes - like "I love Sammael because he Compelled Morgase")

 

Note: Ingtar and Verin don't count. They returned to the Light. This is for those who lived and died under the Shadow

[clu7ch]

Easy other. NARG. 

also, do the early books whitecloaks as a whole count? Because while they were supposedly good - they were supposedly good at being idiotically bad. 

[Barid Bel Medar]

For this thread, lets keep it to Darkfriends. There are too many stupid who do stupid things to count. 

[esvath]

Nobody shared their thought on Forsaken Idol, yet? :P

 

I vote for Graendal, but if I can vote for three, my votes will be: Graendal, Semirhage, Moghedien. These three were the best schemers in my opinion. Especially Graendal. Her sacrificing Aran'gar and Delana was just... Epic.

[Elan Tedronai]

Asmodean.

 

close the thread

[Kil]

"Favorite" and "most effective" are two completely different questions. Asmodean is far and away my favorite Shadow-side character, but he sure as hell wasn't a very effective tool for the Dark One.

[Leflair]

Asmodean did more damage/chaos than 90% of the other Forsaken, what with launching the Shaido invasion- and all just as a diversion for his true goal.

 

Plus, he was just a chill fun lovin' dude at heart, whould have liked him to stick around longer than he did.

 

Definitely my favourite.

[Lord Ingtar Shinowa]

Sammael is cool and my favorite, but the most effective was probably Demandred.

[Fall]

Asmodean was my favourite character from the shadow, but the most effective was probably Ishamael as Moridin.

[Entreri]

Fortunately for the Light, there really wasn't a sharp Shadow tool, be it Shai'tan or Moridin or Narg. 

 

Either Ishamael or Asmodean.  Ishamael was responsible for how the Seanchan turned out.  Asmodean caused the Aiel revolt. 

[Kil]

Asmodean did more damage/chaos than 90% of the other Forsaken, what with launching the Shaido invasion- and all just as a diversion for his true goal.

 

Plus, he was just a chill fun lovin' dude at heart, whould have liked him to stick around longer than he did.

 

Definitely my favourite.

 

See, I tend to give Lanfear the credit for stirring up the Shaido, I always thought Asmo was mostly just going along with her plans there. Waiting for his own opportunities to seize, of course, but I never thought he was the mastermind. And ultimately that plot didn't particularly aid the Shadow, as Rand came out of it in a stronger position and with Asmodean on his side, however reluctantly.

[Leflair]

He did give Couladin his dragons and pointed him in the right direction, what part did Lanfear have there? She seemed mostly interested in staying close to Rand (Awhile since I read those books).

And just how much did Asmodean actually teach Rand? Probably a less effective teacher than Mogheiden was.

 

Of course, his greatest asset was those Wicked Harp Solos.

 

Ishamael... well, he had a lot of time (and page space) to work with, not really fair to compare with the others.

[esvath]

But Graendal (and Sammael) played their part in scattering Shaido, right? So, Graendal FTW ;)

 

Anyway, I totally forgot about Asmodean -____-

[TR Stevens]

I would have to say Lanfear was the greatest tool because she played them all,at times you did not really know which side she was on.

[flinn]

From the very beginning, the biggest problem I had with the Shadow was how weak and inept they were.

One of the biggest issues with the entire series for me, at no point ever did I feel even a little bit of concern or worry about the Light side characters.

It was compounded in AMOL since when the Light side characters started dying I wasnt even really concerned, there was just too much disconnect at that point.

 

 So for me, not a single Shadow character lived up to even my lowest expectations of fantasy villans. 

[Suttree]

From the very beginning, the biggest problem I had with the Shadow was how weak and inept they were.

One of the biggest issues with the entire series for me, at no point ever did I feel even a little bit of concern or worry about the Light side characters.

There was one point I started getting nervous. That was when it became obvious that the Shadow was playing a different game than the light players(and most of the forsaken for that matter) thought they were. When Ishy started breaking down the sha'ra game and Rand went "dark" things looked bleak. RJ had a good point on how bad things were getting.

 

 

 

Interview: Sep 25th, 2005

                                                            

Robert Jordan's Blog: DUMB EVIL?                                            

                                                                                                                                                                               

Robert Jordan                                                                                       

The Forsaken are a group of power hungry people who don't like one another and vie with one another for power as much as they vie with the forces of the Light. Much like the internal politicking in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. But look at the situation in the world as it actually stands, from the White Tower divided to crop failures caused by a too-long winter and a too-long summer and people fleeing their farms because the Dragon Reborn has broken all bonds, meaning still less food, and that spoiling at a fearsome rate, from chaos in Arad Doman to a large part of the Borderland armies out of position, from the arrival of the Seanchan focusing too many eyes on them instead of the Shadow to the strongest single nation, Andor, riven by civil war in all but name and Tear split by open warfare, from.... Well, take your pick. There are lots more to chose from. Take a step back and look at what the forces of the Shadow have wrought. The world and the forces of the Light are in bad shape. At

this point, boys and girls, the Shadow is winning. There are glimmers of hope, but only glimmers, and they MUST pay off for the Light to win. All the Shadow needs for victory is for matters to keep on as they have been going thus far and one or two of those glimmers to fade or be extinguished. The forces of the Light are on the ropes, and they don't even know everything the Dark One has up his sleeve.

Things got much worse from that point as well.

[SylvanFox]

My favorite is Ishamael/Mordin, and over the millenia, he has been a pretty effective Forsaken. But for the book events alone, I think Graendal has been the most effective. I guess you could say Demandred has, too, but Graendal did stuff that we could kind of see. Plus, her work to make Rand suffer, as ordered by Moridin, was probably the only plan the Shadow ever had that stood a good chance of working. Balefiring Natrin's Barrow was one of Rand's darkest moments, and not long after that was the closest the Shadow ever came to winning, when Rand was thinking about how pointless it was to go on or whatever. Her plan wasn't perfect, nor was half of it even planned, but she got the job done. Also, after her failure, Graendal pulls herself together faster than any other Forsaken that screwed anything up. Moghedien spends most of the series whining about her torture, but Graendal just takes the punishment, and is even able to accept her new ugly body. And she got out there and fought in the Last Battle. I guess Mog did a little bit, but Graendal was battling multiple channelers and holding her own.

[blazetheearth]

I had to pick Mellar. To me he was almost the Anti-Lan of the series. Where Lan has skills and uses them for the Light, even to the perceived detriment of his own desires (i.e. duty before all), Mellar/Hanlon has a similar (NO, I'm not saying he could beat Lan!) skillset to Lan. As an agent of the Shadow, Mellar was fairly successful in fulfilling his role and his orders. He gradually advanced through the ranks of the Chosen until he finally served Moridin directly and had Dreadlords answering to his command. I agree that he lives only because of the weakness of the Light (Elayne should have had him executed (not as Daughter-Heir, but as a Green Aes Sedai who had uncovered a DF)),but during his escape from capture he followed orders still and kept others from being held - and possibly broken - by the forces of the Light. As a normal non-channeler, he not only survived but thrived in the chaos of the world leading up to the Last Battle, and in the end it took a HotH to take him down. That's why he gets my vote.

[Rhienne]

I picked Moghedian.  Partly because she got quite a lot of screen time relatively early on, and she was never killed off we got to see more of her than many of the other Forsaken, so I thought she was well developed.  I also think her cowardice and continual failures and inferiority to the other Chosen made her more interesting.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Just to clarify again, as I know the title is misleading, this is just about your favourite character from the Shadow. They don't have to be the best or most effective. 

[SLC]

Lanfear: Hot with low morals. 

[Danjaman]

Slayer is my favourite, without a doubt. His development is so gradual; from his mysterious introduction in tSR, and subtle clues afterwords, we slowly piece together his character. Isam's PoV in the prologue was awesome, though I wish we got some foresight into if/why Luc was a darkfriend. The dream fights were awesome too.

 

I would have to say that Semirhage was the most useful though - because choking min + accessing true power broke Rand WAY more than Graendal did in Arad Doman.

 

My least favourite is M'Hael, he's the most selfish, evil maniac in the whole series and I'll never forgive him for killing Egwene.

Also, I would laugh if anyone voted for Bel'al.

[talligan]

Moridin, near the end (not insane Ishamael), was the most interesting I felt. He wasn't in it because he hated Rand or desired power (i.e. stereotypical villain motives) but had rather reached his decision to be evil through a series of logical deductions. All of his scenes with Rand were among the most interesting in the series because they weren't *just* attacking one another but were often calm, philosophic discussions and revealed Moridin to be a much more complex character than Lanfear, Graendal etc...

 

But seriously though, NARG for life. 

[PhoenixUK]

Moridin was massively successful all that time he was half bound. He got the trollocs wars going. He stirred up Artur Hawkwing against Aes Sedai, esp at the end so that he refused Healing and died. He set up the Seanchan (although in the end that might have backfired against the Shadow) and he created the Black Ajah. 

 

Unfortunately once the books started he becomes useless. He runs around chasing the 3 ta'veren in their dreams, and gets killed by Rand. When reincarnated, he does reign in the Forsaken a bit and get them back on track, but he doesnt do v much. He doesnt even get involved in stopping Rand cleansing saidin - imagine if he had wielded the True Power against Rand's followers at Shadar Logoth, no one would have sensed his weavings? He even helps Rand against Sammael for some reason - presumably he wants rand alive to be broken rather than just killed. If Rand died before the Last Battle, maybe Dark One couldnt win. 

 

I voted Mesaana, because she helped break the Tower and stirred up the Black Ajah. The kidnapping of Rand is what drove Rand and set him on the way to becoming a cold hearted psycho , and then Semirhage using an a'dam drove him over the edge. The aes sedai civil war made them effectively useless for months. 

 

I must admit i admired Graendal - she was a survivor, she stirred up all sorts of chaos between Arad Doman and Tarabon, and she was v effective with her compulsion on Army of Light generals. Demandred meanwhile was just damn cool. 

[MarkDiLillo]

Moridin was literally the biggest loser of the entire series.  1000's of years of planning end in a pathetic sword fight.  It's a shame we never got to see what RJ really had in mind for him because I suspect it would have been grand in some way.  Demandred was a close second - the guy literally reset the bar for biggest loser of the universe....right up until Moridin broke that record a few chapters later.

 

Asmodean and Mesanna were easily the most successful Forsaken.  I had the highest hopes for Lanfear, but she turned out to be another train wreck.  Overall, the greatest weakness in the entire series is the degree of character depth amongst the bad guys.  It is nearly non existent.