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The 'No More RAFO' Thread--Existing Questions

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So, I lent my copy of EotW to a friend so I can't look up the Quote and I can't remember what was said. But I do know there was  a 'voice' that spoke. Do we know at this point who it was? Creator? Could it have been the DO? Someone/something else?

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Did the Tinkers find their song?

Even RJ stated it's impossible.

Elayne found a ter'angreal in the Kin's Store Room in Ebou Dar described as a Root-like carving.  Wheel of Time Wiki says that it can 'grow' something if the right song is used to activate it, they also suggest that it is the talisman that is required to grow the Way Gates.  I don't think this is accurate though, I don't remember the books ever say that it IS that Way Gate talisman so I think that this is a false suggestion on Wheel of Time Wiki's behalf - my reasoning is that there is another ter'angreal that was also found that I believe is the talisman.  In Ebou Dar a Stone Carving was also found that when sung into holes can be 'grown', to me this sounds more likely to be the Way Gate ter'angreal.

 

I believe the root-like carving might be a ter'angreal used to grow the Avendesora if the Tinkers and Ogier work together. I've thought this since Elayne and Avihenda dicovered it, and didn't understand why they didn't see the importance in it, but it could be as simple as the didn't realize  or possibly that I'm wrong.  Just a thought, but I think it has some merit because the Tinkers song should be able to be found again and the song they are after must be the one sung to grow Avendesora as they are descendants of the Jenn Aiel I think... or at least 'following the way of The Leaf' is a path that is derived from the Jenn.

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Does anyone have a theory on Nyneave seeing Sharina Melloy in her accepted testing because this has bugged me since it happened and it didn't get resolved in the books.  In her testing it is Sharina Sedai but it seems likely it is the same person.

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If someone else said this, I apologize.

 

But, whether or not the song Rand sung was the song the Tinkers have been looking for, he should know the song if he has all of Lews memories.

He possibly knows some of the songs of growing but there is no single "song". It is the memory of those old song that has melded together into a single concept.There is the talent of the "singing" however.

 

Rand doesn’t know the Song and the Tinkers wouldn’t accept anything he taught them anyhow.

 

Robert Jordan specifically noted that the Tinkers would not find their Song by the end of the series and that the Ogier song of growing is not the Tinkers’ Song. The Song is “a much more deep and philosophical concept, perhaps unattainable.”

 

Interview: Aug 27th, 1999

Melbourne Film Festival - Steven Cooper (Paraphrased)

 

Troy Terry

 

Seriously, though, any bets on whether the Tinkers will ever find the Song? I bet it's the harvest song from Rand's Aiel memories.

STEVEN COOPER

I asked RJ about this when he was in Melbourne last week, and (amazingly) got a straight answer.

 

Robert Jordan

 

The Song the Tinkers are seeking is the song Rand heard in Rhuidean—or, to be exact, the memories of that song and others like it have become merged, over the years, into the concept of one mystical Song.

  Edited by Suttree

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It could have been one of the songs of growing but keep in mind Rand as the Dragon Reborn is one with the land. He can cause things to grow just based on his improved mood.

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That's what I'm hoping for. I thought while reading the book that he would teach the Aiel before he disappeared (never thought he would die) and that bringing them back the song would slay them with the leaf and destroy them with the sword of peace - or whatever the exact quote is. Foiled again!

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OK this is actually related to old books. Rereading entire series , in TEOTW there are trollocs after captain Domon, and in TDR there's a plot to get him killed with a letter from Galldrian of Carhien. What was that all about? Is it something to do with him having a seal of the Dark One's prison?

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OK this is actually related to old books. Rereading entire series , in TEOTW there are trollocs after captain Domon, and in TDR there's a plot to get him killed with a letter from Galldrian of Carhien. What was that all about? Is it something to do with him having a seal of the Dark One's prison?

 

If I am remembering correctly, yes. That's exactly it.

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I would like to know about Sharina Melloy.  I know she is just a powerful novice who is abnormal in the way of age etc.  But what I am really puzzled over is her being mentioned in Nyneave's testing to become Accepted.  There must be more to this - it couldn't have been mentioned and then just discarded, maybe it was to enlighten us to realize that what happens in the rings is more true that what the Ae'Sedai believe.  I don't know.  Anyone have any thoughts on the true nature of Sharina?

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Ah, Jordan left us so much to think about and imagine! I am glad even for the little tidbits Brandon has related, such as where was Dobraine etc.

 

Is there some article or press release about the Encyclopedia to come anywhere? I have seen a couple of references so far but no more.

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How would the Dragon going over to the Shadow result in a draw?

 

Why not just kill Rand from day 1?

 

What was Demandred balefiring and why?

1. In the final confrontation, Rand realizes the Dark One can't win as long as the human race doesn't break or give up. Even if the Dragon goes to the shadow, as long as people don't give up, he can't win.

 

2. Turning Rand would probably make answer 1 easier than killing him. That and Rand has the pattern protecting him. There's plenty of times they tried to kill Rand and failed.

 

3. Why? Because the Dark One told him to in LoC. Further explaination, there's a line during the Last Battle when Demandred is telling people to keep balefiring anything and everything, because the pattern must be unravelled before it can be remade.

 

I know that was what was implied...however, it seems pretty obvious that if they had killed Rand on day one they could have just won the military engagements and enslaved the world.  Why allow Rand the opportunity to seal the Dark One away?  There was no reason to allow him to live.

 

I dont recall the line about Demandred saying to balefire everything - I'll have to go back and read again.

 

 

That's just a big plot hole. They never really "tried" until it was too late. I chalk this up to the grand "Super villains in every story ever are basically idiots" theory. If they had killed him, the seals would have broken, and the dark one would have broken free right? How is that not a win? 

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How would the Dragon going over to the Shadow result in a draw?

 

Why not just kill Rand from day 1?

 

What was Demandred balefiring and why?

1. In the final confrontation, Rand realizes the Dark One can't win as long as the human race doesn't break or give up. Even if the Dragon goes to the shadow, as long as people don't give up, he can't win.

 

2. Turning Rand would probably make answer 1 easier than killing him. That and Rand has the pattern protecting him. There's plenty of times they tried to kill Rand and failed.

 

3. Why? Because the Dark One told him to in LoC. Further explaination, there's a line during the Last Battle when Demandred is telling people to keep balefiring anything and everything, because the pattern must be unravelled before it can be remade.

 

I know that was what was implied...however, it seems pretty obvious that if they had killed Rand on day one they could have just won the military engagements and enslaved the world.  Why allow Rand the opportunity to seal the Dark One away?  There was no reason to allow him to live.

 

I dont recall the line about Demandred saying to balefire everything - I'll have to go back and read again.

 

 

That's just a big plot hole. They never really "tried" until it was too late. I chalk this up to the grand "Super villains in every story ever are basically idiots" theory. If they had killed him, the seals would have broken, and the dark one would have broken free right? How is that not a win? 

 

The armies of the Shadow could still have been defeated, and the Dark One could still have been sealed. That doesn't technically require Rand. It may have been a much bloodier and prolonged struggle. The Dark One wins by breaking the spirit of men and women, not just beating them. And I think he has a special desire to break the Dragon specifically. Still, remember the game of sha'rah described in the proglogue of PoD. Controlling the Fisher piece can be a huge advantage and you can win by moving him to the opposite side of the board, but if you don't control the Fisher you can also win by forcing the it into specific places on the board. Those are instant victories. If the Fisher piece is eliminated, the game continues until all of one side's pieces are eliminated from the board.

 

With the Dragon alive, the Dark One could have won an instant victory (he almost did, but Rand had his epiphany on Dragonmount). If Rand failed, I don't think the Dark One could have destroyed the Pattern until every man and woman alive was broken. It seems implied that their strength and especially their unity held the Pattern together. Oh, he could have continued to spread his influence, but he couldn't have won until all opposition was eliminated.

Edited by Agitel

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Definitely. I just thought it was interesting that he's actually an Aiel (at least, 1/2) genetically and it was mentioned that he was singing something. I figured it was actually the song until someone said differently here.

 

I believe Rand's old body is a little more than 1/2 Aiel. When he stepped throught the way back Ter-Angreal, some of those red headed children were capture to what is now Andor. probably inferred they rose to nobility with the red hair trademark being a dominate gene.

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 What better way to break the spirit of man then to build them up a seemingly god like hero and then force them to watch him fail? If you think of it like that the Dragon Reborn can be quite a good weapon for the Dark One. Much better to allow him to live while tainting his plans and developement.

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Were they any actual answers given during Sanderson's Twitter Q&A? I can deal with the last bit with Rand and his new power being left open to interpretation, but there are many things that should be answered. Alana, Verin's letters, Nakomi, the body swap, and many other notable items and events should be explained.

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Lol, the whole breaking the spirits of men and women is just so laughable it is basically ridiculous.

 

does sanderson think we are fools.

 

If moridin had the choedan kal in his hands would all the armies and all the spirits and the dragon reborn matter? would it sanderson?

 

The dark one's goal has always been to break free from his prison.

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Lol, the whole breaking the spirits of men and women is just so laughable it is basically ridiculous.


 


does sanderson think we are fools.


 


If moridin had the choedan kal in his hands would all the armies and all the spirits and the dragon reborn matter? would it sanderson?


 


The dark one's goal has always been to break free from his prison.


I agree with you Elan!!!!

And if Maria and Brandon were honest with us, They should really address every  RAFOS.  We have read, and found out not even a 25 percent of the RAFOS.

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One would think that when the author or authors , and the people that speak for them answer a question with a Read and Find Out; it is that the answer shall be written. Otherwise ; do not say that.

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