The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases

[acmeraptor]

@fionwe - theoretically Caemlyn should have had this advantage as well through the Kin.

 

I don't think destroying Waygates is that easy - I'm sure I've read somewhere that it takes a full circle of 13 and needs to be done properly with severe risks if it's not done properly. I can't remember where I read this tho, so it may have just been a theory somewhere.

 

Weren't there only like a handful of Kinswomen there to pass messages along to everyone else at FoM?  And some got iced around the time the attack started so as not to give warning/run for help, with the remaining ones unable to do more than fight off the attack and heal people.  I seem to remember they had to link to be strong enough to open a gateway.

 

Also in tSR I recall Loial saying that if you remove the leaves completely that a Waygate will eventually die.  I think you're right about actually destroying it, but you could also sort of starve them off.

[Viperswhip]

Rand didn't want to destroy them in case he could cleanse them and they could be used again. I was just rereading those particular books and he didn't want them ruined, although I think Loial killed the one in the Two Rivers.

[yoniy0]

Unlike Caemlyn, it's highly unlikely that any attacker could neutralize every sister capable of Travelling in the length of time it would take to alert Egwene to the attack (truth be told, it was almost as unlikely in Caemlyn, except that the Shadow enjoyed a particularly heavy plot-armor; meh, it's done now).

 

Having said that, they could still wreck a considerable amount of havoc unless Egwene has a concrete plan in place (which, unless she's blindingly stupid, she should have). No, please don't take that as invitation to discuss Egwene's stupidity or lack thereof.

[acmeraptor]

@Viperswhip  Pretty sure he just locked it by placing both leaves on the outside, anyone inside at that gate would have no way to open it.  I think he explains he could let it die but couldn't bring himself to do it and Perrin just gives him an attaboy. 

[fionwe1987]

@fionwe - theoretically Caemlyn should have had this advantage as well through the Kin.

Six Kinswomen, versus a lot of women in the Tower. Even if the majority of the Tower is in Merrilor, the Novices and Accepted obviously are not. Plus, there is a steady stream of communication between the two locations by Gateway.

 

I don't think destroying Waygates is that easy - I'm sure I've read somewhere that it takes a full circle of 13 and needs to be done properly with severe risks if it's not done properly. I can't remember where I read this tho, so it may have just been a theory somewhere.

It does indeed need a circle. The risks come when you use less than a circle of 13. Loial speaks of a botched attempt in the Blight that involvled nine Aes Sedai and a sa'angreal. But the Tower has no difficulties producing many circles of 13, so they're covered, here. No would I be surprised to learn the Tar Valon Waygate is strongly warded.

 

In fact, I'm going to go ahead an predict that the relatively small distance via the Ways between Tar Valon and Caemlyn will play a role soon. I think a surprise ambush from within the ways will be planned to complement a thrust at the Waygate from Caemlyn itself.

[Viperswhip]

@Viperswhip  Pretty sure he just locked it by placing both leaves on the outside, anyone inside at that gate would have no way to open it.  I think he explains he could let it die but couldn't bring himself to do it and Perrin just gives him an attaboy. 

No, that's when they first arrived in the Two Rivers, when he and Gaul went back, he did something and said only the Elders or an Aes Sedai could open it now. I am guessing he did something with the leaves, but he didn't leave them both on the door, that's when they arrived.

[BFG]

 

@fionwe - theoretically Caemlyn should have had this advantage as well through the Kin.

 

I don't think destroying Waygates is that easy - I'm sure I've read somewhere that it takes a full circle of 13 and needs to be done properly with severe risks if it's not done properly. I can't remember where I read this tho, so it may have just been a theory somewhere.

Weren't there only like a handful of Kinswomen there to pass messages along to everyone else at FoM? And some got iced around the time the attack started so as not to give warning/run for help, with the remaining ones unable to do more than fight off the attack and heal people. I seem to remember they had to link to be strong enough to open a gateway.

 

Also in tSR I recall Loial saying that if you remove the leaves completely that a Waygate will eventually die. I think you're right about actually destroying it, but you could also sort of starve them off.

(and @yoniyo & @fionwe) That's why I said in theory (re the Kinswoman). There are a couple of hundred(?) Kinswoman attached to Caemlyn who are capable of linking and creating relatively large gateways, it’s ‘unfortunate’ that their were only 6 at the time.

 

You're right about the leaves, remove the leaves and the waygate dies and can only be fixed with the Talisman of Growing - however Moiraine manages to get them all out during tEotW despite the leaf being missing - it would require the Power tho, so is better than nothing.

[Viperswhip]

Ya, that whole scene was wacky, should have been easier for Moiraine to push the door out with air after cutting it, but RJ wanted Lan to look heroic. Probably people will argue that he powers their were tainted but she lasered the door quickly enough.

[MasterAblar]

 

@fionwe - theoretically Caemlyn should have had this advantage as well through the Kin.

Six Kinswomen, versus a lot of women in the Tower. Even if the majority of the Tower is in Merrilor, the Novices and Accepted obviously are not. Plus, there is a steady stream of communication between the two locations by Gateway.

 

I don't think destroying Waygates is that easy - I'm sure I've read somewhere that it takes a full circle of 13 and needs to be done properly with severe risks if it's not done properly. I can't remember where I read this tho, so it may have just been a theory somewhere.

It does indeed need a circle. The risks come when you use less than a circle of 13. Loial speaks of a botched attempt in the Blight that involvled nine Aes Sedai and a sa'angreal. But the Tower has no difficulties producing many circles of 13, so they're covered, here. No would I be surprised to learn the Tar Valon Waygate is strongly warded.

 

In fact, I'm going to go ahead an predict that the relatively small distance via the Ways between Tar Valon and Caemlyn will play a role soon. I think a surprise ambush from within the ways will be planned to complement a thrust at the Waygate from Caemlyn itself.

It actually took 13 Aes Sedai and a sangreal to destroy a waygate.

[acmeraptor]

It actually took 13 Aes Sedai and a sangreal to destroy a waygate.

 

Yep, just reread that part to refresh my memory. The failed attempt of just a circle of nine, "damaged the Gate in such a way that the Aes Sedai were pulled into--" And Loial cuts himself off in embarassment from rambling.

[KrisAnton]

T'a'R is what Loial was gonna say...

[b3arz3rg3r]

 Tar Valon is unprepared for a Shadow attack by Waygate or a Seanchan attack by Gateway.

 

Unlike Caemlyn, Tar Valon's army has unprecedented mobility. If the Seanchan come in via Gateway, all the Tower needs is 13 sisters to make a humongous Gateway that can concentrate their troops far, far better than the Seanchan can. Which doesn't mean the Waygate shouldn't be destroyed right away, though.

 

 

 

That only works if their army is prepared to fight immediately. If not it'll take hours to get the army organized while the Seanchan destroy pretty much to their liking. With Travelling the attacker has a huge advantage because unless the defender is ready exactly when the attack is taking place. Moreover unlike the Aes Sedai the Seanchan aren't limited by the three oaths. If the Aes Sedai open a huge Gateway the Seanchan would sense it and could just bombard the location with weaves which killed every soldier as he stepped through.

 

 

 

@fionwe - theoretically Caemlyn should have had this advantage as well through the Kin.

Six Kinswomen, versus a lot of women in the Tower. Even if the majority of the Tower is in Merrilor, the Novices and Accepted obviously are not. Plus, there is a steady stream of communication between the two locations by Gateway.

 

I don't think destroying Waygates is that easy - I'm sure I've read somewhere that it takes a full circle of 13 and needs to be done properly with severe risks if it's not done properly. I can't remember where I read this tho, so it may have just been a theory somewhere.

It does indeed need a circle. The risks come when you use less than a circle of 13. Loial speaks of a botched attempt in the Blight that involvled nine Aes Sedai and a sa'angreal. But the Tower has no difficulties producing many circles of 13, so they're covered, here. No would I be surprised to learn the Tar Valon Waygate is strongly warded.

 

In fact, I'm going to go ahead an predict that the relatively small distance via the Ways between Tar Valon and Caemlyn will play a role soon. I think a surprise ambush from within the ways will be planned to complement a thrust at the Waygate from Caemlyn itself.

 

 

It actually took 13 Aes Sedai and a sangreal to destroy a waygate.

 

 

 

And that was only 500 AB meaning that those thirteen Aes Sedai were likely to be quite a bit stronger than the strongest thirteen Aes Sedai currently alive other than Elayne, Egwene, Nyneave and perhaps Cadsuane.

[Rand alSaurus]

Okay, this one makes me laugh. When I first read it, I thought "Peaches!" was a new swear..

 

 

Day 27:

 

"Peaches!" Rand said, aghast. Everyone knew those were poisonous.

 

So did someone eat peaches? Was someone gifted a lovely basket of them? Was there an assassination attempt... with peaches?

[Terez]

We have some conflicting info on the peaches. RJ said they actually evolved to become poisonous. Harriet said it was a fear-based legend originating in the poisonous pits. I have a feeling this one goes toward what Harriet said about it, and that someone will actually eat some peaches and prove they're not poisonous after all. But in that case I don't like it because Rand should have already suspected that from his Lews Therin memories; the Forsaken have said that they were not poisonous in the Age of Legends.

[Rand alSaurus]

We have some conflicting info on the peaches. RJ said they actually evolved to become poisonous. Harriet said it was a fear-based legend originating in the poisonous pits. I have a feeling this one goes toward what Harriet said about it, and that someone will actually eat some peaches and prove they're not poisonous after all. But in that case I don't like it because Rand should have already suspected that from his Lews Therin memories; the Forsaken have said that they were not poisonous in the Age of Legends.

 

The conflicting information makes it difficult to discern where this one is going. Rand, though, with LTTs memories, has an interesting reaction. If in fact they were not poisonous in the AoL, his reaction should be a little different. It's confusing without context.

 

Maybe the Seanchan, separated from RL over the years, have no such fears. And Tuon offers him some fruit in their next meeting, or is snacking on them when he arrives?

 

It would almost have to be someone detached from the RL society.. Either someone from the AoL, or someone physically removed from the bulk of Randland over the last age.

[Suttree]

 Rand, though, with LTTs memories, has an interesting reaction. If in fact they were not poisonous in the AoL, his reaction should be a little different. It's confusing without context.

I wouldn't try to read all that much into that...

[Amandera]

So, the unshakable calm of Dragon Reborn Rand Sedai is shaken by... peaches. LOL.

[JimboSlice]

Maybe it is a rip off from the sword of truth series. In that series red fruit were poisonous until Richard saved the day.

[Suttree]

Maybe it is a rip off from the sword of truth series. In that series red fruit were poisonous until Richard saved the day.

A rip of off SoT?!?! Please tell me that is sarcasm...

[JimboSlice]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Suttree" data-cid="2715073" data-time="1356199969"><p>

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="JimboSlice" data-cid="2715071" data-time="1356199910"><p>Maybe it is a rip off from the sword of truth series. In that series red fruit were poisonous until Richard saved the day.</p></blockquote>

A rip of off SoT?!?! Please tell me that is sarcasm...</p></

 

Partly. I read sword of truth before reading wheel of time. When I first read wot I was struck by the similarities, and my thought was that goodkind plagiarized wot. Wot is much better (sot kinda sucked in the end) but there is a lot of overlap of ideas. Maybe jordan is getting ideas from goodkind now.

[herid]

We have some conflicting info on the peaches. RJ said they actually evolved to become poisonous. Harriet said it was a fear-based legend originating in the poisonous pits. I have a feeling this one goes toward what Harriet said about it, and that someone will actually eat some peaches and prove they're not poisonous after all. But in that case I don't like it because Rand should have already suspected that from his Lews Therin memories; the Forsaken have said that they were not poisonous in the Age of Legends.

The Forsaken also said that currently the peaches are poisonous.

 

in Demandred's POV in WH, ch 11 he thinks this about Cyndane.

 

 

The little woman drew herself up. By face and form she was a luscious plum, ready for plucking, but her big blue eyes were glacial. A peach, perhaps. Peaches were poisonous, here and now.

 

So either the peaches have become poisonous through mutation since the AOL or Demandred simply accepts the currently prevalent view that they did. It is  not so surprising that Rand would do the same.

[driedraspberry]

That exclamation mark is killing me. What in the Pit of Dhoom...

[herid]

That exclamation mark is killing me. What in the Pit of Dhoom...

 

ROFL!

 

But seriously, there are some possibly interesting implications here. Who would be suggesting eating peaches to Rand if everybody thinks they are poisonous even if they were not in the AOL?

Maybe the Seanchan, separated from RL over the years, have no such fears. And Tuon offers him some fruit in their next meeting, or is snacking on them when he arrives?

 

 

Interesting idea but unlikely IMO. We've seen a lot of Seanchan and of Tuon in particular in the books. This would have likely come out by now.

 

Perhaps peaches become non-poisonous post LB? Or someone in one of Rand's schools develops an nonpoisonous peach variety.

[Terez]

We have some conflicting info on the peaches. RJ said they actually evolved to become poisonous. Harriet said it was a fear-based legend originating in the poisonous pits. I have a feeling this one goes toward what Harriet said about it, and that someone will actually eat some peaches and prove they're not poisonous after all. But in that case I don't like it because Rand should have already suspected that from his Lews Therin memories; the Forsaken have said that they were not poisonous in the Age of Legends.

The Forsaken also said that currently the peaches are poisonous.

 

in Demandred's POV in WH, ch 11 he thinks this about Cyndane.

 

 

The little woman drew herself up. By face and form she was a luscious plum, ready for plucking, but her big blue eyes were glacial. A peach, perhaps. Peaches were poisonous, here and now.

 

So either the peaches have become poisonous through mutation since the AOL or Demandred simply accepts the currently prevalent view that they did. It is  not so surprising that Rand would do the same.

 

 

Nothing in this post makes any sense. First, I never said that the Forsaken didn't think peaches were poisonous in this Age. Second, Rand was raised in the Third Age, so clearly he's familiar with the lore of the Age. It's his Age of Legends knowledge that should make him question it in the situation I described.

[yoniy0]

Well, for what it's worth, my first thought was that the Ice Age is coming to Randland.