Dark Prophecy from ToM

[dhammett11]

It seems to me impossible for both the Shadow prophecies and those of the Light to be fulfilled, as the have different endings to the same tale. They can't both be true. Either the Dragon Reborn saves the world from the DO, or the DO triumphs. Both are NOT going to happen. Ergo, the both can't be true. And plus, we already know Ishy has corrupted Seanchan prophecy.

 

For instance, the Dark Prophecy about Lanfear at Fal Dara, that her know lover (Rand) will serve her and die, yet serve still. That isn't likely to happen. Maybe a stretch on serving (saving?) her, but if he dies, he will cease to serve her, unless he goes over to the Shadow. And that is not happening.

 

Or the very same prophecy we are debating states the DO shall destroy all save those who worship him. "There shall be none but Him, and those that have turned their eyes to His majesty."

 

Frankly, no matter what Brandon says, I don't see how this is compatible with the prophecies of the Light. One is going to be wrong. Up to a point, both they aren't mutually exclusive, but after a point, they are. Regardless, the idea that BOTH sets are going to be fulfilled (or that both are absolute) just doesn't hold water with me.

 

 

We know from the mouth of Robert Jordan that Light and Dark prophecies are in no way in conflict. There are both foretellings, and as such both will be fulfilled as long as the pattern is not destroyed. Just because you can't imagine a scenario in which both prophecies are fulfilled doesn't mean the possibility is logically ruled out a priori. I had trouble imagining how the Sword in the Stone prophecy could possibly be fulfilled until I saw it happen.

[Luzburg]

As far as I can see, only very few would truly shake the world, I don't think Perrin or Mat fall into that bracket yet.

 

However Lan and Ituralde are legends.

 

I'm going for Ituralde because his nickname is the Little Wolf.

[Simpleman2012]

Broken Wolf is Lan.

 

He was the unacknowledged Lord of the seven towers, a widely acclaimed King even though without an kingdom by majority of the inbitants, including even the Aiel, and espacially revered by all from the Borderlands.

 

His kingdom was broken when he was but a child. He grew up learning to become a wolf - as silent as wolf at hunt, and as extremely courageous and deadly as a wolf in the direct presence of enemies.

 

Lan will fall in the last battle, but the shadow prophecies assumes that it will break men's hearts. No doubt it will initially as the shadow hopes, but most certainly with Lan's fall, it will later gives inspiration of valor to all who fought with him to lay waste to the shadow, just as Lan had done.

[wcbrooks]

I can not see any references between Lan and a wolf in the series - if you have a quote that would be good - but as far as I can tell there is no relationship stated in the book or otherwise.

 

and I think you will find that he is acknowledged as the Lord of the seven towers and King of Malkier etc etc just not Crowned and he does not accept the titles ...he has a kingdom which is now part of the blight as seen in the first book

 

The Aiel call Aan'allein - "a man who is an entire nation" nothing about been King...

 

Lan will fall in the last battle but then Nynaeve will heal him :) but he is not the wolf based on no previous connection

[PokerStarr]

Greetings! My name is Tom and I have been into the wheel of time series roughly 15 years ago when I was 14 and always eagerly awaited the new releases and usually finish reading quickly, within a couple of weeks. This is my first post; sometimes I browse the forums as a guest and it is always very interesting. This thread was so good I just had to stick in my 2 cents. Im like 95% sure Perrin is that Broken Wolf dude, and I will give a detailed analysis, just like the way I analyze things when involved in a hand at the poker tables.

 

"Lo, it shall come upon the world that the prison of the Greatest One

shall grow weak, like the limbs of those who crafted it. Once again, His

glorious cloak shall smother the Pattern of all things, and the Great

Lord shall stretch forth His hand to claim what is His. The rebellious

nations shall be laid barren, their children caused to weep. There shall

be none but Him, and those who have turned their eyes to His majesty.

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning,⁸ and

the First Among Vermin⁹ lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who

will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and

be consumed by the Midnight Towers.¹⁰ And his destruction shall bring

fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

And then shall the Lord of the Evening come. And He shall take our

eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and he shall take our skin, for

our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will

we praise. And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion,¹¹

and shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful. Let the

screams begin, O followers of the Shadow. Beg for your destruction!

 

So Lets see then..

 

Starting with Perrin, I think that since the broken wolf line immediately follows the fallen blacksmith line, we can say with near certainty those two sentences were both meant to cover Perrin's role. Think about it: on the broken wolf line after the fallen blacksmith line the author seems to be insisting it will happen, his last days that is, when the next line begins with "Yea and the Broken Wolf.. " They were both meant for Perrin absolutely

 

Most definitely Moridin knows about Perrin, and I would agree with other posters that the midnight towers means Forsaken, since I remember reading about Egwene's dream in ToM. Also the midnight towers Ishamael himself had a hand in their design, that would add credibility. Perrin has gathered quite a widespread assortment of nations to follow him: Two Rivers, Ghealdan, Aiel, Mayene, Tairens, Seanchan, and even Whitecloaks now.. I think that fits the bill nicely for the destruction and hearts of men line.

 

Honestly I dont know why there's so many options on the poll, the arguments for Rand and Ituralde are very good but I dont think any minor characters were meant to be referenced at all; this prophecy I think is the framework for the major players in AMOL: Rand, Mat, Perrin, Moridin, and of course, the Dark One. I take back the 95% sure statement I made earlier; Actually I would bet a new car that I'm 100% right on this one.

 

Thank you and many cheers for this excellent forum space and all those who contribute. I learn new twists and ideas I sometimes overlook or havn't considered; its really is a beautiful series.

[Skeeve the Great]

I voted Perrin. The reason that Perrin is mentioned twice (Fallen Blacksmith and Broken Wolf) is because Perrin is a blacksmith in the real world and he is a wolf in TAR. I think it's obvious that Perrin is going to do the fighting in two places - real world and TAR.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and

be consumed by the Midnight Towers.¹⁰ And his destruction shall bring

fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

Sorry, but outside of the Two Rivers, Perrin simply is not well enough known nor widely enough heralded to have his destruction, "bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men," and "shake their very will itself."

 

Agelmar, Ituralde, Bashere, Bryne, those are fabled names and fabled men, known in every corner of Randland. One of them possibly, but not Perrin. He's a nobody by comparison, and none but those closest to him would be made afraid or sorrowful by his destruction.

[Kelsier]

i think its slayer the kind-of antiwolfbrother hence broken wolf. just a gut feeling and being a Luc/Isam combo i think hes familiar with death both literal and morridin

[TheAngryDruid]

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whome Death(implying a person by capital letter) has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

I voted Iturlade initially, remembering Rand's quote from ToM saying how the DO tried harder to take Maradon (and Ituralde) because of how crushing the DO knew it would be after all the heroic efforts to hold it. Quoting Rand "He knows that if he could break them, it would mean something. Something much more than Maradon. Breaking the spirit of men . . . he thirsts for that. He struck far harder than he otherwise would have because he wanted to break my spirit."

 

Isam comes to mind. Death has surely known him, and he was consumed, in a way by the Midnight Towers. Though Malkier was already broken when he disappeared.

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

I voted Iturlade initially, remembering Rand's quote from ToM saying how the DO tried harder to take Maradon (and Ituralde) because of how crushing the DO knew it would be after all the heroic efforts to hold it. Quoting Rand "He knows that if he could break them, it would mean something. Something much more than Maradon. Breaking the spirit of men . . . he thirsts for that. He struck far harder than he otherwise would have because he wanted to break my spirit."

 

 

Ituralde isn't a bad choice in a couple of respects.

 

He is known as "TheLittle Wolf."

He has had personal contact with Little Miss Compulsion, and is thus most likely to be "broken."

 

Although my own impression was he'd found his own way around whatever Graendal did to him by refusing to remain where further messages and orders from "The King" could reach him.

 

My personal feeling accords with yours. Maradon was supposed to accomplish that Dark Prophecy. Whether Rand's intervention precluded the Prophecy or merely delayed it remains to be seen.

[TootThatHorn]

i have to go with Lan on this. If it were Rand then that would mean he was referred to by possibly 3 different titles in that prophecy, so i say it is Lan and his destruction is affecting the remaining malkeiri...the only other ones that would make sense are Perrin, and he already has title in this as well, or elyas, which i see as a stretch, cause the only way the rest of the prophecy makes sense is a revelation of plot line, even though broken wolf sounds like a good title for him. anyways, thats my two cents, although with inflation these days i cant imagine it buying anything :)

[RandA lThor]

In the end of ToM, it said that

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers.

(Sorry if the quote doesn't work correctly, first time.)

 

It says broken wolf, which could mean injured. He wouldn't be dead yet, but he would have a "crack". At that time, I believe that Hopper was injured by Slayer and would work that way. Also, it says the one whom Death has known which means that this must be Hopper as no other character has known death( Moiraine has not, she was in a different world) and he would be the only one to qualify. I also think that the Midnight Towers mean Tar Valon as it symbolizes how Tar Valon will even stand at midnight "the darkest hour".

[Suttree]

Also, it says the one whom Death has known which means that this must be Hopper as no other character has known death( Moiraine has not, she was in a different world) and he would be the only one to qualify.

 

Any character who has been killed and resurrected either by the DO or balefire would qualify so not sure why you say it's just Hopper....the midnight towers almost certainly means the forsaken and Egwene's thirteen black towers dream.

[FarShainMael]

'His destruction' could mean destruction of him, or by him. Think Mat's cannons, and Egwene's dreams of Mat with 'arrows of fire' shooting from his fist, and men dying as a result (ACoS10) ; and him bowling on a village green knocking over pins representing thousands of men each (CoT20). Then there's Birgitte's reaction to the dragon testing, a 'terrible feeling' about the world changing.

 

Not to mention the destruction than Perrin's new hammer is capable of inflicting!

[Barid Bel Medar]

Hmmm, fun reading through this a good few months after my initial comment.

 

Still haven't decided, I am torn between Rand and Lan.

 

I can't decided because of these two lines.

 

Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers...

 

Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion...

 

For Rand: Broken being used in both here, and Death, if it means Moridin, Rand certainly knows Moridin, he is linked, I don't know if Moridin and Lan have even met, although I suppose it could be talking about the Fall of Malkier. Rand certainly seems destined to die, and his death would be the biggest loss to morale among the Light. If he dies, they are basically screwed. (Not knowing he comes back, if that is what will happen.) And the other reference which is certainly him also has the word "Broken" in it, forming the obvious possibility of connection.

 

For Lan: The way it reads to me, is that the Broken Wolf shall fall and be consumed, then later it mentions the Broken Champion (Rand) facing the DO. It could mean his resurrection, but it doesn't give any indication that these two are in any way linked. There is no mention of how the Broken Champion manages to come back and face the Lord of the Evening after falling and being consumed by the Midnight Towers. And why would they change the names from Wolf to Champion? There should be at least some connection between the two, but it seems to be talking about totally different people, the only connection is "Broken".

 

Considering Lan's journey in ToM, he has become a Standard for the Light, a rallying point to fight against the Shadow. He is certainly "broken" and "wolf" with its connotations could be applied to him. Men would certainly be depressed at his death. And we know he is, at the end of ToM, charging the Blight, which is not very safe.

[Terez]

Rand was in the lead on this poll for a long time, with Lan close behind or sometimes passing him up. I'm disappointed that it's gone back to Perrin now...

[Mazrim182]

I voted Bashere. I think the fallen blacksmith is definitely Perrin and his pride refers to Faile. I think Faile is going to cop it in AMOL (End of the Fb's pride) and the Broken wolf (Bashere) will make a "deal" with the forsaken (midnight towers) to bring her back to life (he knows death and will be consumed by darkness) Obviously his destruction, whether the destruction he reigns or the destruction of his self (turning to the dark) will bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men.

 

I hope what I wrote is clear,I'm not the best at putting to word what I'm thinking in my head, lol

[Stubby]

you folks are going to be so upset

[Entreri]

It all hinges on how precise/accurate this part of prophecy is: "And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and SHALL SHAKE THEIR VERY WILL ITSELF".

 

Only the death of the Dragon Reborn would shake men's "very will itself".

 

Perrin has led an army of about 80,000 and is a minor character in the human world compared to Rand or even Egwene.

 

Mat similarly, 20,000+ army, his ignorant and foolish wife commands the Seanchan.

 

Lan even much less signifcant than Perrin or Mat.

 

 

 

Now if the wording "SHALL SHAKE THEIR VERY WILL ITSELF" is there for merely for effect, it can apply to any character described as a wolf in the series.

[snooze1128]

If Rand indeed turns out to be the Broken Wolf, I think it's only fitting that his death would occur in Tel'aran'rhiod. Perhaps this is occurring from Perrin's wolfish point-of-view? Also, I think we're going to find out in aMoL exactly why wolfs are so prominent in TAR.

[TristanWebb]

Lan is probably the best bet atm. He has known death through the severing of his link with Moiraine, if he falls at Tarwin's Gap is will certainly be a blow to morale. Not enough is really known right now, and circumstances could mean anyone could be bale-reborn and been known by death.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Lan is probably the best bet atm. He has known death through the severing of his link with Moiraine, if he falls at Tarwin's Gap is will certainly be a blow to morale. Not enough is really known right now, and circumstances could mean anyone could be bale-reborn and been known by death.

 

Note here that Death is capitalized, it may add another dimension to that idea.

[yoniy0]

Also, Death needs to know him, not the other way around.

[Didgya]

If "Death" was accidentally capitalized, we are all going to feel silly! I originally thought it could be Ituralde but after not looking at it for a while it seems obvious that it is Rand. After getting the "obvious" Mat losing an eye thing wrong, I think I have learned my lesson.

[Bob T Dwarf]

If we hope to make sense out of this we have to begin with a set of reasonable, agreed upon, assumptions. Things like: if it's Capitalized it must be a name or the synonym for a name.

 

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

 

So Broken Wolf is obviously meant to be a name. So is Death. Also, Midnight Towers.

 

So, Step 1 would be to identify Death and Midnight Towers. Moridin means death, but does Death necessarily mean Moridin? What about Midnight Towers? Is that literally the 13 natural black stone towers in Seanchan that are called the Midnight Towers? Or someplace else?

 

This is a Dark Prophesy. Like all Prophesies, vaguely couched, and meant to be understood only by the Initiates of the Darkfriend Secret Society. Nobody else matters. Only those pledged to the Dark One will survive to achieve glory and immortality, so who cares whether anyone else understands the meaning or not?

 

What would Darkfriends consider to be "Midnight Towers"? Someplace not understood? Dark and frightening?

 

The one thing that must be plain to even the uninitiated is that "the Broken Wolf" has fallen and been consumed and destroyed. The implication contained in that statement is that "the Broken Wolf" MUST be universally known and revered as a symbol of Light and strength.

 

All of the candidates presented fail that single test for various reasons ranging from obscurity to great ambivalence about their dedication to the Light. That includes Rand. Probably as many people fear him and consider him destruction incarnate and utterly Black, as do those that consider him the Light messiah.

 

The only candidate I can think of who might qualify on all counts is Jain Farstrider. Every child grows up on the Tales of his travels, so he IS universally known. He is always the Hero, so if it were to become known that he had fallen to and been consumed by the Dark, it could "bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shake their very will itself." Not even Rand's death could do that. As many would rejoice as would mourn because of how the return of the Dragon is viewed.

 

But, if Farstrider were to become known to have been destroyed by the dark, if the very mythology that every child grew up on were to become known to have failed, then people's "very will itself" might become shaken.

 

That would make the Midnight Towers, the realm of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn. A place uncontrollable by the DO and his powers, thus dark as midnight even to the Great Lord of the Dark.

 

It's a Theory, anyway.