[Light Vs Shadow] - HEROES AND VILLIANS MAFIA

[Leelou]

I do agree that Poet is sticking out as acting scummy with the calling for a counter claim, back pedaling and trying to figure out who the other mason(s) is/are on thread. I would like to hear what Des found out last night as well.

[Blackhoof]

Me too. I think that he is trustworthy.

[hazelkrs1]

dunno if Maw can replace Nol since he was a Mason. if he replaces scum then the scum team knows who the other Masons are adn that would be an unfair advantage.

 

 

Des, did you get anythign good last night with your findings?

 

No, actually. Not sure what happened, I didn't even get a PM back from the mod, letting me know if I'd been blocked or if my NA failed or anything. I sent her a PM asking about it, I'll let you know what I find out.

 

Poet had already been on my LOPTBWO (list of people to be wary of), but I wanna do a reread before I actually place my vote to see if I can get some clearer thoughts about this game.

 

Also, should I find anything out from my NA's, I might not always be so forthcoming, as it might be a better idea for me to keep certain pieces of information under wraps until more becomes clear.

[Blackhoof]

how annoying.

[bgrishinko]

Sorry I've been scarce lately, things got a little busy unexpectedly.

[Niniel]

I´m also curious of Talya´s answer to you Des.

 

I have three names right now on my FOS list: Sakaea, Poet and Wombat.

 

Sakaea voted Maw because he told us that Turin and Des are newbies. Now, Des is not one, but that was what Maw thought. Maw looked scummy to me but his comment about Turin and Des was just trying to be nice. I have already commented on this, before we knew Maw´s alignment. I agree with Locke that Sakaea just tried to get a reason to move her vote from Des.

 

Poet - called out for a CC when Des revealed, took a long time to move her vote from him and then wondered if Turin and Des are masons.

 

Wombat - fos´d everyone that didn´t wanted to vote for Maw and now votes Tiinker with a strange reason.

 

I´m willing to vote Sakaea and Poet right now. Since Poet has most votes I will go with Sakaea.

[Niniel]

And my vote - Vote Sakaea.

[bgrishinko]

Tina, you make a good point about Kae's Maw vote, but I could still go either way on it. My first read of the comment was also that Maw was just trying to be nice, but then I tried to think into it too much and wondered if Maw might have been trying to cover up a partner's slippy scummy behavior... so I can also understand Kae's reasoning. Looking in retrospect, could be scum trying to lay blame though.

 

For now, as I'm catching up and re-reading I'm going to apply a little more pressure to Poet though since those actions seem more FoS worthy in my book.

 

Vote Poet

[Turin Turambar]

What does everyone believe the root cause of no NK's last night? Were we just lucky that the protectors guessed well or was there some sort of ploy? I can't think of a reason for such a ploy but many of you are more experienced than I am.

 

I am suspicious of Poet for the body of her actions (hammer vote, mason's line, etc..) and also wombat for his FoS and then Tiink vote. Kae not as much. I will hold off voting for the moment tho. I want to find out what Des has to say.

[Sakaea]

I'm gonna be MIA for a day or so. My internet is not working well. Will check in if I can.

 

Also, Vote Poet for the whole trying-to-guess-the-masons thing.

 

In my defense, well, Maw just seemed like he was being scummy. Trying to protect Des & Turin was weird, and it came off as trying to protect scum-mates. It's too bad he flipped Mason, I've found Mason teams to be some of the most useful town-roles there are. I've only been on a Mason team once, but knowing that 2 other people (in that case) were town was amazingly helpful.

[Red2111]

i'm glad to see Poet, i'm not going to add my vote yet because i feel theres enough on her atm and she's yet to respond

 

in other news, 2 pings in a row here

 

Tina, you make a good point about Kae's Maw vote, but I could still go either way on it. My first read of the comment was also that Maw was just trying to be nice, but then I tried to think into it too much and wondered if Maw might have been trying to cover up a partner's slippy scummy behavior... so I can also understand Kae's reasoning. Looking in retrospect, could be scum trying to lay blame though.

For now, as I'm catching up and re-reading I'm going to apply a little more pressure to Poet though since those actions seem more FoS worthy in my book.

 

Vote Poet

 

your explination feels off to me BG. sounds like your cya-ing. peoepl are FoSing Sakaea over somethign you did as well, the underlined feels like a premptive measure to circumvent pressure for the same exact thing.

 

afterall, scum have been known to use a townies reason for wanting to lynch a person as their own. major ping here my friend.

 

 

 

What does everyone believe the root cause of no NK's last night? Were we just lucky that the protectors guessed well or was there some sort of ploy? I can't think of a reason for such a ploy but many of you are more experienced than I am.

 

I am suspicious of Poet for the body of her actions (hammer vote, mason's line, etc..) and also wombat for his FoS and then Tiink vote. Kae not as much. I will hold off voting for the moment tho. I want to find out what Des has to say.

 

dude we get that your new, but you need to drop the constantly reminding us. this is pinging majorly, especially since your one of the peopel Poet was trying to associate with Maw as a mason.

 

also bringing up the NK, while that in itself isn't scummy, it feels like your attempting to move focus off the Poet pressure and onto something else. it's good to try and analyze the NK (or lack of one) to try and get info, but will get more info from pressuring scummy players than guessing what went on behind the scenes.

 

 

also, the two pings i've lsited combined are why i find this so scummy, because by "reminding" us your new you give yourself a bit of cover for asking the NK question if the FoS turns to you.

[Turin Turambar]

Sorry about the noob ref(last one), I just thought it out of the ordinary to have no kills on night 1 and was wondering about non-obvious reasons. You didn't directly answer the question which leads me to believe there may be no clear answer.

 

I have my doubts about Poet and have no problem with the pressure applied to her. There are early votes and plenty of suspicion. I await her response.

[Red2111]

Turin with te NK it could be anythign from the healer guessing right to the Mafia not submitting a kill, we have no clue what roles the mod decided or how the scum are thinking so realy wondering out loud and tryign to figure out what happened will just lead to more questions than answers.

 

aside from the fact it will distract from actually finding scum right now. but yes, no NK is out of the ordinary inthese games and for a newbie thats good to pick up on. so your thinkign in the right direction and have a good start on how the game works not to mention that asking questions isn't a bad thing either.

[Turin Turambar]

Ok. That makes sense. For a question, what did you think of Wombat's Tiink vote?

 

Wow, I just noticed your dragon collection. quite a few there.

[Red2111]

yep i collect dragons as well, love the little critters. theres a thread about them int he GD forum is you want to post your owna dn join in on the discussion.

 

 

as for Wombats vote, the lack of a reason while voting is normal but the reason is FoS worthy. that type of reasoning is fine for D1, but on D2 it seems kinda of odd; unless he has another reason for voting Tiinker that he's just not telling; which is totally in the norm for Womby.

 

 

VOTE: BG for the above reasons and to get competing trains going.

[Talya]

DAY 2 VOTE

 

 

Poet (4): Blackhoof, Leelou, BG, Poet

 

Sakaea (2): Locke, Tina

 

 

Tiinker (1): Wombat

 

Wombat (1): Pants

 

BG (1) : Red

 

 

DAY 2 ENDS SUNDAY 9PM GMT (73 hours - I think I gave the wrong number of hours last time as I thought I was going to finish this on Saturday...ooops!)

 

 

 

 

[bgrishinko]

@Red I'm not really understanding your arguement. I was just saying that I can see the arguement both ways (Tina and Kae) and it isn't enough for me to warrant a vote yet, but still worth keeping an eye on. Don't know what else to say about that. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

 

Looking back, a few things have stood out to me.

 

On the Pants thing. He has acted weird the entire game. He could well be a villain, maybe the Joker and he is acting in character. The big problem about him is that now that he has been twapped by the Overlord, He can't post to explain anything at risk of being MK'd. On the flip side of that tho is you could say it is a tactic. I just think he is wacky. I am of course willing to listen to those more experienced.

 

This just seems odd to me in retrospect knowing that we killed off The Batman and this post came before that. We didn't know other roles than our own at the time. A slip perhaps?

 

FoS everyone not voting Maw.

 

Well that's a bit harsh we still have a whole day.

 

And you're wasting it.

 

I think that this is the reason for Wombat's vote? Yes? Just want to get that straight. I'm not seeing what is inherantly scummy about what Tiink said. With Maw flipping town, what incentive does mafia have to delay the lynch? Seems like mafia would be more than happy to rush the lynch along.

[Blackhoof]

That's a good point BG, FOS Wombat for faulty reasoning.

[hazelkrs1]

Well I got no results from my NA last night, but I have a fairly good idea why that happened. Will do an entire reread tonight to check stuff out again

[poetstorm]

Ok....weird, no NK? I can say I have never seen that happen day 1. Great news, but not very informative. *sigh*

 

Sorry for the wait! OK in response to the three main points some of you have pointed out on me:

 

I never asked for a counter claim, merely stated the fact that there was none aspart of my reasoning to switch from the Des lynch train. I'm still not 100% certain on Des to be honest. Call me a skeptic. But I'm also notwilling to take a chance. I did intend to clarify that better at the time. I like to think out loud in mafia. Anyone who has played with me should remember that. To me it's collaborative puzzle solving. :D

 

The hammer vote - What can I say. I work in accounting...and I miscounted. :P Believe me or not. There's not much more I can say about that. I so hate being the hammer. *facepalm*

 

And my thoughts about Maw atclosing of day 1 - more thinking out loud. I didn't see the harm in it, and really thought it was rather obvious since that post had gotten so much attention during the day. I thought it the next logical step to go back through and try to larn something from he lynch. Really didn't, and still don't see the harm in re-looking at that post. Especially when I'm still trying to figure if i can trust Des or not. I'd like to. (Though it's odd that both the NK and Des' night action both didn't happen. Not sure hat to figure from that. Has my head going in circles.)

 

So ,that being said, I was all set to vote Nolder today as he was really the last one left on my ping list....and I hear he's leaving the game. So...that leaves me pretty much back to square one. I'm going to go back through a bit and I'll post a vote shortly but I did make some notes below so far.

 

 

Vote: Tiinker

 

As some said before, I find this odd. Just making a note of it.

 

 

 

i'm glad to see Poet, i'm not going to add my vote yet because i feel theres enough on her atm and she's yet to respond

 

in other news, 2 pings in a row here

 

Tina, you make a good point about Kae's Maw vote, but I could still go either way on it. My first read of the comment was also that Maw was just trying to be nice, but then I tried to think into it too much and wondered if Maw might have been trying to cover up a partner's slippy scummy behavior... so I can also understand Kae's reasoning. Looking in retrospect, could be scum trying to lay blame though.

For now, as I'm catching up and re-reading I'm going to apply a little more pressure to Poet though since those actions seem more FoS worthy in my book.

 

Vote Poet

 

your explination feels off to me BG. sounds like your cya-ing. peoepl are FoSing Sakaea over somethign you did as well, the underlined feels like a premptive measure to circumvent pressure for the same exact thing.

 

afterall, scum have been known to use a townies reason for wanting to lynch a person as their own. major ping here my friend.

 

 

 

What does everyone believe the root cause of no NK's last night? Were we just lucky that the protectors guessed well or was there some sort of ploy? I can't think of a reason for such a ploy but many of you are more experienced than I am.

 

I am suspicious of Poet for the body of her actions (hammer vote, mason's line, etc..) and also wombat for his FoS and then Tiink vote. Kae not as much. I will hold off voting for the moment tho. I want to find out what Des has to say.

 

dude we get that your new, but you need to drop the constantly reminding us. this is pinging majorly, especially since your one of the peopel Poet was trying to associate with Maw as a mason.

 

also bringing up the NK, while that in itself isn't scummy, it feels like your attempting to move focus off the Poet pressure and onto something else. it's good to try and analyze the NK (or lack of one) to try and get info, but will get more info from pressuring scummy players than guessing what went on behind the scenes.

 

 

also, the two pings i've lsited combined are why i find this so scummy, because by "reminding" us your new you give yourself a bit of cover for asking the NK question if the FoS turns to you.

 

On the BG thing, I agree with you somewhat I reacted identically to Maw's post about protecting the other two and didn't get called out on it like Kae is now. So why pinpoint her. I'd like to see more on why people are finding Kae dubious, because maybe I missed something. Don't have time to do a complete reread just now but I did go back about 5 pages looking.

 

And agreed on Turin as well, though I've made the mistake of pulling out the newbie card back then too. Doesn't necessarily ping me but I'm keeping a closer eye from now on

.

@Red I'm not really understanding your arguement. I was just saying that I can see the arguement both ways (Tina and Kae) and it isn't enough for me to warrant a vote yet, but still worth keeping an eye on. Don't know what else to say about that. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

 

Looking back, a few things have stood out to me.

 

On the Pants thing. He has acted weird the entire game. He could well be a villain, maybe the Joker and he is acting in character. The big problem about him is that now that he has been twapped by the Overlord, He can't post to explain anything at risk of being MK'd. On the flip side of that tho is you could say it is a tactic. I just think he is wacky. I am of course willing to listen to those more experienced.

 

This just seems odd to me in retrospect knowing that we killed off The Batman and this post came before that. We didn't know other roles than our own at the time. A slip perhaps?

 

 

It's something to think about, could be just coincidence though.

[poetstorm]

@Red I'm not really understanding your arguement. I was just saying that I can see the arguement both ways (Tina and Kae) and it isn't enough for me to warrant a vote yet, but still worth keeping an eye on. Don't know what else to say about that. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

 

Looking back, a few things have stood out to me.

 

On the Pants thing. He has acted weird the entire game. He could well be a villain, maybe the Joker and he is acting in character. The big problem about him is that now that he has been twapped by the Overlord, He can't post to explain anything at risk of being MK'd. On the flip side of that tho is you could say it is a tactic. I just think he is wacky. I am of course willing to listen to those more experienced.

 

This just seems odd to me in retrospect knowing that we killed off The Batman and this post came before that. We didn't know other roles than our own at the time. A slip perhaps?

 

FoS everyone not voting Maw.

 

Well that's a bit harsh we still have a whole day.

 

And you're wasting it.

 

I think that this is the reason for Wombat's vote? Yes? Just want to get that straight. I'm not seeing what is inherantly scummy about what Tiink said. With Maw flipping town, what incentive does mafia have to delay the lynch? Seems like mafia would be more than happy to rush the lynch along.

 

 

Sorry for double posting, but I'm trying to get caught up before I go to bed.

 

If this is Wonby's reason for the vote, I think it's kinda weak. I don't see it either. You're right it would make sense for scum to want to rush the lynch, lest the focus shift to one of their own before end of day.

 

Random votes without reasons make me twitch. :D I'll vote Wonbat for now.

[Locke]

Okay, to restate, my suspicions:

 

Nolder - Jumping on Day One competing trains bandwagon

Leelou - Jumping on Day One competing trains bandwagon

 

Pants - Reasoning for voting Des contrasted against the rest of his posts

 

Poetstorm - Didn't back off Des after revealing

Aiel Heart - Didn't back off Des after revealing

Sakaea - Didn't back off Des after revealing

 

(Of those, Sakaea was the most aggressive in keeping vote on Des)

 

Blackhoof - What he said about not participating on Day One for fear of getting lynched.

 

Des - Just keeping an eye on you.

 

There's a couple more bits, but I need to re-read the last 2 pages first. The above is basically just a paraphrase of my long FoS post on page 5. I'll get the rest tomorrow.

 

 

 

[WWWwombat]

I think that this is the reason for Wombat's vote? Yes? Just want to get that straight. I'm not seeing what is inherantly scummy about what Tiink said. With Maw flipping town, what incentive does mafia have to delay the lynch? Seems like mafia would be more than happy to rush the lynch along.

 

I think you are playing dumb. Speeding up a lynch train speeds up the decision process and sometimes gives the town time to choose another target if a sufficient reveal is given. Scum would have plenty of reason to want to slow the game down regardless of who is being lynched. Slowing down the lynch made it inevitable that Maw got lynched regardless of whether or not he revealed (btw I don;t get why he didn't rveal as Batman or Mason).

 

All that being said, Tiinker's comment was more infuriatingly anti-town than outright scummy. You and poet have reacted very interestingly, however.

 

unvote

Vote: BG

[Blackhoof]

unvote

Vote Wombat

 

I find poets defence adequate. he has a point that GW never specifically carked for a counter-claim, only rating that there might be one.

 

Wombat has pinges me. his arguments make no sense and his reasoning is faulty. very scummy imo

[bgrishinko]

Playing dumb? Seriously? I've got no problem pushing to ensure a non random Lynch, you do it often, I've done it, but to FoS everyone not voting for Maw was odd and I'm just saying Tiinks comment didn't seem out of place... especially when there was plenty of time left.