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The red ajah. To be or not to be.


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So who thinks that we haven't seen the last of the little red witch, the usurper, the prognosticator, the bringer of chaos ELAIDA? I have a feeling we'll see her again in some sort of climatic role in the end.

 

ALSO

 

Red Ajaha? Prevent the breaking? What will their new purpose be now that saidan is cleansed.

 

Lets give them something to do other than hate men and find new pillow 'friends' lol.

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I think the Red Ajah's new role will be to bond men who can channel and learn what can be done with men and women working together with the power.

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Red Ajah, Crossroads of Twilight and Knife of Dreams seem to indicate their future role. More specifically, they bonding Ashamen.

 

Elaida became a damane in Gathering Storm. Her suldam gave her the name Suffa. From reading Encyclopaedia's Towers of Midnight pages; it seems she taught Traveling to a number of other damane.

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Isn't the Red Ajah's purpose supposed to be rooting out darkfriends, solving crime, and being everyone's best friend? ...okay, maybe not that last one, but yeah. And Elaida wasn't a Usurper, no more than Egwene was(before she was re-elected in TGS, of course.)

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Isn't the Red Ajah's purpose supposed to be rooting out darkfriends, solving crime, and being everyone's best friend?

 

No. The Red Ajah was about protecting humanity from another Breaking (which is not the fault of criminals and darkfriends). Their new role will be the subjugation of men to the Amyrlin Seat of course.

 

And Elaida wasn't a Usurper, no more than Egwene was(before she was re-elected in TGS, of course.)

 

Actually, because of the number of Black Ajah involved in Elaida's raising, yes, she was a usurper :biggrin:.

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Their new role will be the subjugation of men to the Amyrlin Seat of course.

This.From one despicable focus to another.

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The red ajah is done. Same with the green ajah. One already no longer has a purpose and the other won't have one after TG. I'm sure many of the Aes Sedai will be too set in their ways to change their ajah, but they'll die out over the years as they no longer get any new members. The green might try rebranding themselves to become some kind of police force against the inevitable lawlessness and banditry which comes with a giant upheaval like TG, but with the advent of male channellers the red won't even be able to do that. Over two thousand years the reds have built up such a bad rep it'll be a long time till that is forgotten.

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Will any of the Ajahs survive in their current form. Will the WT? With male channelers, Ail channelers, Seanchan channelers, Seafolk channelers the role of the WT will never again be the same, no matter what happens with the Seanchan rule and how far it spreads. The AS are not unique anymore, and so their uniqe role in all aspects of the world will change. and diminish.

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This.From one despicable focus to another.

 

I don't think their goal of preventing another Breaking is despicable. Simply their methods of going about it and their general attitudes towards the poor men who they are sworn to stop.

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Keep in mind that for the longest time in the books the only Reds we've encountered were the bad ones. The bad lot of the pack. Eventhough it's teh biggest Ajah in the WT, the only ones we've ever been introduced to were the ones to put our hackles up. We've never even seen any of the others until we met Pevara and then only sporadically and to a much lesser degree. Now we have three already showing a much different side to the Reds: Pevara, Teslyn (if I'm not mistaken in name, I suck at remembering names) and the current Keeper (who seriously kicks ass, btw). We may have been deliberately guided towards this Red-hate mentality only to be surprised by the reality of things, namely that the majority of the Reds are NOT like the handfull troublesome ones we've been accustomed to.

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Keep in mind that for the longest time in the books the only Reds we've encountered were the bad ones. The bad lot of the pack. Eventhough it's teh biggest Ajah in the WT, the only ones we've ever been introduced to were the ones to put our hackles up. We've never even seen any of the others until we met Pevara and then only sporadically and to a much lesser degree. Now we have three already showing a much different side to the Reds: Pevara, Teslyn (if I'm not mistaken in name, I suck at remembering names) and the current Keeper (who seriously kicks ass, btw). We may have been deliberately guided towards this Red-hate mentality only to be surprised by the reality of things, namely that the majority of the Reds are NOT like the handfull troublesome ones we've been accustomed to.

Or things are as they seem, with the majority being manhaters with a few who thankfully don't fall into that mindset.

 

As for their goal, yes , the reds were charged with keeping the breaking from happening again something which is commendable.Their mindset and methods however were not.

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Re-read tGS, Egwene talks about the future of the Red Ajah with Silvanna. I cant remember the exact quotes but Egwene comes to pretty much the same conclusion as Pevera and co. Red Ajah will be the ones to(for the lack of a better term) "handle" the Asha'man, now that they are not to still them on site.

 

As for Elaida, I think she could make an appearance in AMOL with Fortuna heading out to the White Tower, but as for an actual important role... I believe that it ended when she taught the Seanchan Travelling.

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This.From one despicable focus to another.

 

I don't think their goal of preventing another Breaking is despicable. Simply their methods of going about it and their general attitudes towards the poor men who they are sworn to stop.

despicable as it is trying to prevent prophecies from happenning ... I guess ?

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Re-read tGS, Egwene talks about the future of the Red Ajah with Silvanna. I cant remember the exact quotes but Egwene comes to pretty much the same conclusion as Pevera and co. Red Ajah will be the ones to(for the lack of a better term) "handle" the Asha'man, now that they are not to still them on site.

 

I'd like to see them try.

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Re-read tGS, Egwene talks about the future of the Red Ajah with Silvanna. I cant remember the exact quotes but Egwene comes to pretty much the same conclusion as Pevera and co. Red Ajah will be the ones to(for the lack of a better term) "handle" the Asha'man, now that they are not to still them on site.

 

I'd like to see them try.

 

hahaha, yeah. Look how it has turned out for them elsewhere.

 

 

But, as I said, It was for lack of a better term. As much as I dont like Egwene, I think she genuinely wants the Asha'man treated equally. So the Red's job isnt exactly "handling", they are more like the diplomats between the White and Black Towers

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But, as I said, It was for lack of a better term. As much as I dont like Egwene, I think she genuinely wants the Asha'man treated equally. So the Red's job isnt exactly "handling", they are more like the diplomats between the White and Black Towers

I have a bridge to sell you if you believe that.

 

On a more serious note if she thought that way, why did did it not show in her POVs (unless I'm forgetting something here) ? Oh , I know what she has said but just like the oath thing she's pretty good at ignoring things that can inconvenience her.

Edited by Zentari
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Re-read tGS, Egwene talks about the future of the Red Ajah with Silvanna. I cant remember the exact quotes but Egwene comes to pretty much the same conclusion as Pevera and co. Red Ajah will be the ones to(for the lack of a better term) "handle" the Asha'man, now that they are not to still them on site.

 

As for Elaida, I think she could make an appearance in AMOL with Fortuna heading out to the White Tower, but as for an actual important role... I believe that it ended when she taught the Seanchan Travelling.

 

 

Re-read tGS, Egwene talks about the future of the Red Ajah with Silvanna. I cant remember the exact quotes but Egwene comes to pretty much the same conclusion as Pevera and co. Red Ajah will be the ones to(for the lack of a better term) "handle" the Asha'man, now that they are not to still them on site.

 

I'd like to see them try.

 

hahaha, yeah. Look how it has turned out for them elsewhere.

 

 

But, as I said, It was for lack of a better term. As much as I dont like Egwene, I think she genuinely wants the Asha'man treated equally. So the Red's job isnt exactly "handling", they are more like the diplomats between the White and Black Towers

 

That's just a fantasy of Egwene's and Pevara's with no chance of ever becoming reality. The reputation of the Red Ajah is just too bad. Give the Red Ajah the task of dealing with the Asha'man and you'll have a full out war between the two channellers within a couple of years. There are far too many prejudices on both sides, although on the side of the men it's not really a prejudice it's more a generalization which puts all the Reds on the level of their worst.

Politically speaking it just wouldn't be sound for Egwene to have the Reds deal with the men if she wants cooperation and eventually a reunification of male and female channellers. If she wants the men subservient, yes, but not as equal partners. And I doubt the men will just knuckle under the women.

 

Also in the end for the Reds it's still at best a temporary undertaking. Which would only prolong the inevitable. There are already quite a number of bonded pairs who are quite satisfied with each other and seeing how both sides have a lot in common, especially a similar life expectancy and similar powers, it's inevitable that more and more will bond as time goes on. In a future where there are plenty of Aes Sedai of each of the current ajah and maybe a few new ones bonded to Asha'man the Reds really have nothing to offer to the Accepted. They would still die a slow death as their current members die of old age, well those who don't leave the Ajah.

 

The best Pevara and other progressives can do is make a clean cut and make a new Ajah and leave the conservatives and the old fossiles in the dust.

Edited by b3arz3rg3r
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Keep in mind that for the longest time in the books the only Reds we've encountered were the bad ones. The bad lot of the pack. Eventhough it's teh biggest Ajah in the WT, the only ones we've ever been introduced to were the ones to put our hackles up. We've never even seen any of the others until we met Pevara and then only sporadically and to a much lesser degree. Now we have three already showing a much different side to the Reds: Pevara, Teslyn (if I'm not mistaken in name, I suck at remembering names) and the current Keeper (who seriously kicks ass, btw). We may have been deliberately guided towards this Red-hate mentality only to be surprised by the reality of things, namely that the majority of the Reds are NOT like the handfull troublesome ones we've been accustomed to.

 

Quite right. For the longest time the only Reds we're introduced to were either mentally unbalanced (Elaida) or really Black, not Red (Liandrin, Galina, Katerine). The first one we ever met that was even remotely likeable was Tarna in LoC, and all she did there was try and brow beat Elayne and Nynaeve into coming back to the White Tower with her. Teslyn seemed like a typical abrasive Red when she's introduced, until we find out later she really just LOOKS that way and isn't really all that bad at all.

 

Personally I think all the Ajahs are going to be forced to go through a little reorganization post TG. Things have just changed too much for the White Tower to continue on as it has.

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I picture the Red Ajah changing to being more of a military police type of situation like the big brother of the WT looking for black ajah darkfriends etc either that or it disolves which i doubt it will in the near future.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've always found it funny how the reds that are at the black tower assume that the Ashaman are willing to be bonded. They say things like "let's bond a few dedicated and leave", from what I can tell the Ashaman really don't seem interested at all.

 

With the idea that the reds would die out I still can't see a point at all for the White Tower.

 

Red Ajah: Saidin is clean, they are not needed at all.

Green Ajah: TG is over, they aren't needed.

Grey: Rands peace will make them useless.

Yellow: They don't seem to do any healing now so I doubt that will change in the future.

White: They really have no reason to exist.

Blue: With peace forced on the nations it will give them more time and money to work on social order and justice the blue's will not be needed either.

Brown: They really are the only ones that seem to have any usefull purpose.

 

So with only one of the ajahs haveing a reason to exist what will be the point of the White Tower let alon just the reds.

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I seem to recall reading that the Ajahs (as they currently exist) is an invention of the Third Age--they didn't exist in teh AoL. With saidin clean and TG over... I see the Aes Sedai becoming more homogenous like they were before. I don't see a spearation of Ajah existing for more than a couple hundred years after TG. There just isn't a need. I think part of the outcome of Rand's peace (a logical outcome after time, not necessarily one that will happen right away) will be that the Aes Sedai revert to becoming "Servants of All" again, with emphasis on "servants." Thi doesn't mean they will be subserviant to others, but their goal will be to serve, not to protect the world from TG.

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There are far too many prejudices on both sides, although on the side of the men it's not really a prejudice it's more a generalization which puts all the Reds on the level of their worst.

Politically speaking it just wouldn't be sound for Egwene to have the Reds deal with the men if she wants cooperation and eventually a reunification of male and female channellers. If she wants the men subservient, yes, but not as equal partners. And I doubt the men will just knuckle under the women.

 

Also in the end for the Reds it's still at best a temporary undertaking. Which would only prolong the inevitable. There are already quite a number of bonded pairs who are quite satisfied with each other and seeing how both sides have a lot in common, especially a similar life expectancy and similar powers, it's inevitable that more and more will bond as time goes on. In a future where there are plenty of Aes Sedai of each of the current ajah and maybe a few new ones bonded to Asha'man the Reds really have nothing to offer to the Accepted. They would still die a slow death as their current members die of old age, well those who don't leave the Ajah.

 

The best Pevara and other progressives can do is make a clean cut and make a new Ajah and leave the conservatives and the old fossiles in the dust.

 

Sorry for the pedantry but isn't that more or less what prejudice is? As to the rest, I agree with you and the others which say that the organised ajahs will tend to become far more diffuse. There will always need to be specialists - that's why we have chemists, mathematicians, physicists, biologists, engineers, historians, whatever you care to name - but as with science at the minute the roles of each will cross over more and more in times to come, I think.

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I've always found it funny how the reds that are at the black tower assume that the Ashaman are willing to be bonded. They say things like "let's bond a few dedicated and leave", from what I can tell the Ashaman really don't seem interested at all.

 

With the idea that the reds would die out I still can't see a point at all for the White Tower.

 

Red Ajah: Saidin is clean, they are not needed at all.

Green Ajah: TG is over, they aren't needed.

Grey: Rands peace will make them useless.

Yellow: They don't seem to do any healing now so I doubt that will change in the future.

White: They really have no reason to exist.

Blue: With peace forced on the nations it will give them more time and money to work on social order and justice the blue's will not be needed either.

Brown: They really are the only ones that seem to have any usefull purpose.

 

So with only one of the ajahs haveing a reason to exist what will be the point of the White Tower let alon just the reds.

 

The Reds can move on to being the police that monitors channelers. Ironically, partnering with men who can channel might become their schtick so that they can be more effective at it.

 

The Green Ajah, from what I can tell have been pretty damned useless unless Robert Jordan forgot to mention in all of his books that the Greens spend all of their time patrolling the borders of the Great Blight and reinforcing the Borderlander units who patrol the Blight.

 

Rand might establish peace, but it will be up to the Grey Ajah to maintain it. They will be important to make sure this chance at world peace doesn't evaporate within a generation.

 

White Ajah: So their all philosophers? Yeah, I don't see them doing much except maybe acting as advisers.

 

Yellow Ajah: Same deal as the Greens. We don't see them doing anything, but maybe they at least make sure that there isn't a serious out break of plague in Randland. Its possible that they travel around healing people, but then again maybe not.

 

Blue Ajah: There will be peace, but that doesn't mean it will be utopia. There will still be causes to fight for.

 

Brown Ajah: They make sure that ancient history is not forgotten. Still useful.

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I've always found it funny how the reds that are at the black tower assume that the Ashaman are willing to be bonded. They say things like "let's bond a few dedicated and leave", from what I can tell the Ashaman really don't seem interested at all.

 

With the idea that the reds would die out I still can't see a point at all for the White Tower.

 

Red Ajah: Saidin is clean, they are not needed at all.

Green Ajah: TG is over, they aren't needed.

Grey: Rands peace will make them useless.

Yellow: They don't seem to do any healing now so I doubt that will change in the future.

White: They really have no reason to exist.

Blue: With peace forced on the nations it will give them more time and money to work on social order and justice the blue's will not be needed either.

Brown: They really are the only ones that seem to have any usefull purpose.

 

So with only one of the ajahs haveing a reason to exist what will be the point of the White Tower let alon just the reds.

 

I don't quite agree. Just because the Ajahs would be finished with their main purposes doesn't mean they'll be useless. The Greens could still be the Battle Ajah (there are stories of Greens who fought at battles other than Tarmon Gaidon). The Blues and Grays could still be useful in settling little disputes that crop up (Rand's Peace isn't just going to make everything alright-it just wouldn't be realistic). The Yellows can still heal (Nynaeve goes around helping sick people all the time, and she's the Yellow that gets the most screentime) though the Kin can help with that too. Plus, I always thought of the Whites as being in charge of accounts and things like that, since we once hear a couple of them talking about some sort of math law.

 

The only one who would really need to change is the Reds, but I'm sure they can focus on making sure channeling is not being misused by other people.

Edited by Apple13
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Sorry for the pedantry but isn't that more or less what prejudice is?

 

True the men are just as prejudiced as the women. There really is no need to differentiate. The only difference is that the women have carried their prejudices for dozens if not hundreds of years longer than most of the men have been alive. Thea are far less likely to change their outlook anytime soon.

 

 

 

About the ajah system, as a whole it is outdated. The upheavel is ushering in an epoch of progress. With technological advance, the recovery of a lot of lost channeller lore and the change because of the cleansing of saidin the current ajahs are insufficient. Especially if men and women are finally unified.

 

Healers are always in demand so the yellows are certain as are researchers and negotiators the brown and the grey, even the white might find a role as arbiters of truth and logic in some judiciary position. The individualistic blue who each have their own goals and dreams they want to fulfill as well. But that's hardly all there is for channellers to do in the future.

 

- Now that there are male channellers in abundance again there'll be far more with strength in earth which most women lack and that means there'll be a lot of channeller assisted building and design. Houses, roads, canalisation and much more. With so much demand I can't imagine there not being an ajah for them.

 

- Another secular vocation could be the transportation industry. If the Tower sold their travelling services to merchants and craftsmen trade will explode. Transportation and information are extremely valuable commodities. Though I doubt the Tower would ever do something as capitalistic as that. The Seanchan however would probably do it. And profit enormously. XD

However, what I could see the Tower doing is have an ajah of channellers who deal with things like standing flows, should they be rediscovered, and the creation of all kinds of ter'angreal for the mundane from music boxes to sho-wings.

 

- As others have said there will also probably be a police for channellers. With the public acknowledgement of the kin and the tower losing their imagined monopoly on teaching as well as Travelling completely bypassing borders there'll have to be some sort of police force which deals with crimes committed by channellers.

 

- closely related, would be channellers who served as some sort of international intervention force. For cases like when bands of robbers repeatedly cross borders to escape jurisdiction or when one land or a noble sends raiders into another territory which is unable to stop them.

 

- There should be also some sort of restorers. I somehow doubt that just by resealing the DO the effect he has had on the world will just vanish completely. The new parts of the Blight will probably revert, but the old parts of the Blight however I think will need to be purged and restored. Also I'm not sure if all the creatures living there will just fall over dead. They need to be wiped out if they aren't. And finally TG is said to destroy the world, so that means there will be plenty of broken and inhabitable countryside which needs to put to rights.

Edited by b3arz3rg3r
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