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humanusmachina

The Change of Mat's Personality from Brandon Sanderson

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Before I go into detail explaining how Mat's personality has changed (for the worse) due to Mr. Sanderson's perspective of the character... Does anyone else agree with me? If nobody else cares, I won't go into details.

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He's changed because he's had to mature and take on more responsibility - similar to Perrin, but he was far less of a b!tch about it - I wouldn't say it's due to Brandon, and wouldn't say it's for the worse either - though doing a re-read now I'm enjoying the old Mat a lot :)

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He's changed because he's had to mature and take on more responsibility - similar to Perrin, but he was far less of a b!tch about it - I wouldn't say it's due to Brandon, and wouldn't say it's for the worse either - though doing a re-read now I'm enjoying the old Mat a lot :)

 

 

How the hell would you consider Mat "more mature" in the books by Brandon? Mat is portrayed as his old care-free childish self. I've re-read the entire series every year on audio books for the last 5 years, and it is absolutely obvious that Mat is actually LESS mature than he was at the time RJ died.

 

PROOF: When he's testing the cannons... WTF? How the hell are we supposed to believe Mat would ever put himself in a position where he could have gotten hurt? Mat NEVER willingly puts himself in danger like that unless he is bound by his semi-twisted sense of honor.

 

The current mat appears (at his core) ignorant, childish, and somewhat annoying. A far cry from his personality as portrayed by RJ.

Edited by Guru

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It's all about the jokes he makes. Jordan's Mat jokes are short and pithy in a stupid kind of way while the jokes Sanderson gives Mat are much more convoluted and protracted and much drier.

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It's all about the jokes he makes. Jordan's Mat jokes are short and pithy in a stupid kind of way while the jokes Sanderson gives Mat are much more convoluted and protracted and much drier.

 

I think it's more than that, but that is part of it for sure.

 

I honestly feel like Sanderson did not really understand the depth that the character actually had before he started writing. I guess it's unrealistic to ask for Sanderson to understand each character like RJ understood them though.

 

 

Read Books 9-11 then read Sanderson's version of mat... Not the same character.

Edited by Guru

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RJ's Mat jokes are hilarious. They aren't actually jokes, per se. He's just funny the way he is and thinks. Most of the time he didn't even realize why all the uppity women were so mad at him, despite his perfect innocent offhanded insults. Sanderson's Mat jokes are forced. He's trying to be funny or outlandish, which he didn't do before, and it usually falls flat.

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He has matured a lot imho. Mostly due to the facts around him. Remember his thoughts about Jain's last stand in ToG. He says something along the lines of "He had seen too many men die on the battlefield for "honor" to dismiss the notion outright". Sorry it's not the exact quote, don't have a pdf for ToM.

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Yeah Mat's voice is different, but overall I don't think Mat has changed for the worse with BS. I admit I was put off a bit in TGS, but by now I realize that Mat's portrayal aside from a few bad jokes has become more suitable to the young man that he actually is. The Mat BS is writing is more like the one the others in the story describe him as. A lighthearted and somewhat carefree young man with plenty of rough edges and who likes to fool around when there's an opportunity, but who is steadfast and reliable when it counts. He isn't like Perrin who was always so serious he could just as easily have been a decade older than he actually was or Rand who has been aged prematurely by his burdens and by his assimilation of LTT.

Edited by b3arz3rg3r

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He has matured a lot imho. Mostly due to the facts around him. Remember his thoughts about Jain's last stand in ToG. He says something along the lines of "He had seen too many men die on the battlefield for "honor" to dismiss the notion outright". Sorry it's not the exact quote, don't have a pdf for ToM.

 

Just as a little note, this was written by RJ, so that may be the reason.

 

However, i agree with you. Sanderson DOES write him a bit differently, and some of the jokes ARE a bit forced, but I would say the essance of Mat is still there. Reading it the first time, you notice a big difference, but if you actually go back and read through again, it really isnt that big a change, Mat has grown.

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Since no one else has defended him yet, I just want to throw in that I actually prefer BS's new Mat. And new Talmanes is much less cardboard, the pair is quite entertaining.

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Since no one else has defended him yet, I just want to throw in that I actually prefer BS's new Mat. And new Talmanes is much less cardboard, the pair is quite entertaining.

 

I agree :)

 

Mat and Talmanes in TGS had me laughing out loud. I actually put the book down at one point, said out loud "oh man, I love this!", picked it back up and re-read the scene.

 

It may be a bit different than Jordan wrote him, but different isn't always bad. I can understand why the purists don't like there to be differences, I suppose, but Brandon Sanderson *isn't* Robert Jordan, and he doesn't have to be in my book.

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PROOF: When he's testing the cannons... WTF? How the hell are we supposed to believe Mat would ever put himself in a position where he could have gotten hurt? Mat NEVER willingly puts himself in danger like that unless he is bound by his semi-twisted sense of honor.

 

He has a longstanding fascination with fireworks and explosives. He did the same when he blew the up wall in Tear and there was the story of Nynaeve punishing him for opening up the fireworks when he was young. This was merely an extension of those earlier behaviors.

 

I honestly feel like Sanderson did not really understand the depth that the character actually had before he started writing. I guess it's unrealistic to ask for Sanderson to understand each character like RJ understood them though.

 

 

Read Books 9-11 then read Sanderson's version of mat... Not the same character.

 

Don't think its' necessarily fair to make this judgement until we are sure of which author wrote what. While I think it's safe to say RJ didn't write Hinderstrap or the Seven Striped Lass, I would have said the same of the ToG sequence which was all RJ.

 

I do think BS has trouble writing that "charming rogue" type character however. Much of it does seem pretty forced and the "Lass" chapter was downright cringe worthy.

Edited by Suttree

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I think that Mat might be a character that Sanderson has a difficult time writing. It was one of the characters that Jordan was closest to from what I know. It would be difficult to capture the exact tone that Jordan used. I think he's done a fine job, though. Yes, Mat seems a little off, but that is to be expected. And, all in all, he's not written badly. He just seems a little "uncomfortable".

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Sanderson isn't as good at writing funny characters, and being forced to write a character you didn't create is probably pretty hard to do.

 

I'm currently reading "Way of Kings" and Sanderson goes out of his way to make some characters funny - Wit for example, but it just comes off as really forced, and not funny at all.

I'm guessing Sanderson wasn't a class-clown type and just isn't really that funny; and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

The Mistborn series was the same way, none of the characters were funny.

I think Sanderson is more clever then he is funny, when it comes to his writing style. I think he's got a creative imagination, and is a good writer, but he's not witty.

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I'm guessing Sanderson wasn't a class-clown type and just isn't really that funny; and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

I can tell you from Sanderson's appearances on reddit.com (especially when Ken Jennings did an Ask Me Anything) that Sanderson has a great sense of humor.

 

Of course, I can also tell you that I find dead baby jokes pretty hilarious.

 

So what you may find funny does not necessarily coincide with what someone else may find funny. And just because you don't find someone in particular very funny doesn't mean that they don't have a good sense of humor.

 

P.S. I hate Sanderson's Mat and find him nigh insufferable most times.

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Since no one else has defended him yet, I just want to throw in that I actually prefer BS's new Mat. And new Talmanes is much less cardboard, the pair is quite entertaining.

 

Actually, I like almost all of the characters better with BS writing them. For me they became much more rounded and 3d.

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I agree that Matt has changed quite a bit under BS, I prefer the old Matt personally. There wasnt a punchline but more of a natural act that was humorous. I dont believe Matt was intended to be comic relief. Brandon has made the humor between Matt and Talmanes more (IMO)slapstick, I dont care for the direction it has gone in but I know there are quite a few fans out there that prefer that type of humor. Brandons style of writing seems to me to more in line with Piers Anthony than Robert Jordan(not an insult), however with that being said I am appreciative that we have someone finishing the series and I'm certain Brandon can write better than me...I am looking forward to the next book.

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Brandon has talked about the changes in Mat. Long story short, when Brandon is handed the reigns, Mat had just gone through a huge change, by marrying Tuon, and becoming some kind of nobility in the Seanchan empire. As Brandon starts to write, he needs Mat to react to this change. And the reaction is Mat trying to pretend he has not changed a bit, by reaching for his old, carefree self. Something that he could not really succeed with, as he has seen too much, experienced too much.

 

Brandon admitted that this new Mat was extremely difficult to write, and he was not quite happy about how Mat turned out in TGS. So, there is some tweaking, and in TOM Mat does work a lot better.

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Brandon has talked about the changes in Mat. Long story short, when Brandon is handed the reigns, Mat had just gone through a huge change, by marrying Tuon, and becoming some kind of nobility in the Seanchan empire. As Brandon starts to write, he needs Mat to react to this change. And the reaction is Mat trying to pretend he has not changed a bit, by reaching for his old, carefree self. Something that he could not really succeed with, as he has seen too much, experienced too much.

 

Brandon admitted that this new Mat was extremely difficult to write, and he was not quite happy about how Mat turned out in TGS. So, there is some tweaking, and in TOM Mat does work a lot better.

 

+1 QFT

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Brandon admitted that this new Mat was extremely difficult to write, and he was not quite happy about how Mat turned out in TGS. So, there is some tweaking, and in TOM Mat does work a lot better.

 

I dont agree at all...the whole ToG sequence was RJ while the Seven Striped Lass & Elayne letter/reunion are some of the worst writing in the entire series. That pretty much leaves the fight with the Gholam and if you botch that type of material you really don't belong in the business.

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Brandon admitted that this new Mat was extremely difficult to write, and he was not quite happy about how Mat turned out in TGS. So, there is some tweaking, and in TOM Mat does work a lot better.

 

I dont agree at all...the whole ToG sequence was RJ while the Seven Striped Lass & Elayne letter/reunion are some of the worst writing in the entire series. That pretty much leaves the fight with the Gholam and if you botch that type of material you really don't belong in the business.

 

 

*shrugs*

 

Its all just a matter of taste. You see, I happen to have thoroughly enjoyed the Seven Striped Lass and also the scenes with Mat and Elayne. You believe its some of the worst writing in the entire series. On the other hand, I don't.

Instead, I completely enjoyed reading every scene with Mat in ToM. Like I said, its just a matter of taste or personal opinion.

 

 

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Brandon admitted that this new Mat was extremely difficult to write, and he was not quite happy about how Mat turned out in TGS. So, there is some tweaking, and in TOM Mat does work a lot better.

 

I dont agree at all...the whole ToG sequence was RJ while the Seven Striped Lass & Elayne letter/reunion are some of the worst writing in the entire series. That pretty much leaves the fight with the Gholam and if you botch that type of material you really don't belong in the business.

 

 

*shrugs*

 

Its all just a matter of taste. You see, I happen to have thoroughly enjoyed the Seven Striped Lass and also the scenes with Mat and Elayne. You believe its some of the worst writing in the entire series. On the other hand, I don't.

Instead, I completely enjoyed reading every scene with Mat in ToM. Like I said, its just a matter of taste or personal opinion.

 

You're right, its just my opinion but you are the first person I have heard have a positive reaction to the SSL. Mat's over the top no one can resist my smile/I am so sexy is just awful and completely out of character while his letter to Elayne read like bad fanfic.

 

Want to point out, this isn't a bash on BS ability at all. He made huge strides with Aviendha and her trip through the columns in ToM was some of my fav writing in the series. As I mentioned in an earlier post, in regards to Mat I believe Brandon just isn't comfortable writing that type of character.

Edited by Suttree

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Sanderson ruins most of the characters. But I dont think we would find many who could do a better job so we're stuck gritting our teeth with the satisfaction that we are at least seeing the story play out the way it was meant to be.

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I agree with most, Mat isn't the same in Gathering Storm or ToM; however, by the time I read ToM, it didn't bother me nearly as much as it had before.

 

However, I remember reading the Gathering Storm and I actually preferred Sanderson's Aviendha.

She seems more like the old Aviendha, a little more "savage." I actually didn't like her character much because she seems the same as any other wetlander.

Which make the Aeil nothing special.

I think Sanderson did a pretty good job of making her a little more Aeil and a little less Randlander; Jordan started writing her the same way as all the other women in the series.

 

 

The biggest problem I have with Sanderson's writing is the fact that he always has the characters explain everything in their heads.

Jordan was much better at giving the readers some credit for figuring out why a character did something they did.

All the Sanderson books I've read so far are the same. The characters always spell everything out clearly; he never leaves the reader in the dark on anything.

It really bothers me during his combat scenes where a character has a long inner dialog going on while fighting, it seems very unnatural.

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The biggest problem I have with Sanderson's writing is the fact that he always has the characters explain everything in their heads.

Jordan was much better at giving the readers some credit for figuring out why a character did something they did.

Totally agree with this (and the comments on Mat's personality). Showing without telling was a skill Jordan used very well

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