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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Roxinos

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    Former Nae'blis, Still a Dumbass

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  1. I'm going to go with bahotin. There are quirks in a fantasy world that arise from the inherent laws of the world. That is, as the writer is thinking up how the world works he/she encounters various logical boundaries and allowances that help shape the world. Then there are quirks in a fantasy world that arise because they are necessary. This is definitely one of those quirks which arose because it's necessary. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It's just a different kind of law of the world. One to which any explanation comes after the creation of the law.
  2. Weiramon, for the most part. Especially considering the famous "Leeroy Jenkins" moment was all staged, and Weiramon's stupidity was a farce. I believe he ran into battle a couple of time against orders stupidly.
  3. I'm going to take your side on this one. You raise a very plausible "outside the box" idea that seems to be too quickly dismissed by the regulars who live, eat and breathe WoT, who have already hacked this to pieces and come to a consensus. I don't see why it couldn't be a vision of the previous Fourth Age. It's a warning of what will probably happen in the coming days if certain events take place BECAUSE that's exactly what happened last time. Sure, it could be a prophecy, too. But prophecy is usually vague, brief, and subject to differing interpretations. This set of visions was anything but vague or brief. Again "prophecy" does not have to specifically refer to Foretelling. It can simply be used to mean prior knowledge of the future. Which is precisely what this gives Aviendha. I could very well be a vision of the previous Fourth Age. I don't think anyone is disputing that as a possibility. We're merely saying it's a bit silly to operate under that assumption when it's much simpler to assume it merely took her into the future.
  4. You do realize that the "future" in general is not set in the Wheel of Time, right? Prophecies are not large stone tablets which read "THIS WILL HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT!" The whole point of the scenes was to show Aviendha a version of the future which may occur. Now that she knows about them, it's up to her to save her people. What you described here, in the section I quoted, is exactly the point and it is exactly the assumption every operates under. You don't need to assume that it's the past in order to assume that she can change the future with that knowledge. What prophesies have we seen that haven't come true in some way shape or form? It seems to me that they're bound ot happen, just not in the way people expect. Otherwise, foretelling kinda sucks. But they can be wrong. Actually, in ToM, Min and some Aes Sedai have a brief back and forth which says precisely this. Prophecy isn't guaranteed. You cannot relax just because there are prophecies that tell of a future beyond the Last Battle. If the Great Lord wins, there is no future and the prophecies are moot. Foretelling is only useful for knowing what has to happen, for knowing what the Wheel's "plan" is (so to speak). I am 100% aware of what you're talking about. Let's assume Aviendha saw the future (as everyone but you seems to assume). If you see the future and then write it down, what's that called? Oh, that's right. A prophecy. When I use the word "prophecy" I'm not saying that an Aes Sedai with the Foretelling prophesied these things. I'm saying that what Aviendha saw is a vision of the future. It is, effectively, a prophecy that she now desires to change. And then we get into the sticky situation of how do you change the future? Most fiction on the matter generally falls into two paths: you can change the future or you can't. If you can change the future, then it's simple. You know what is going to happen, and you work to prevent it. If you can't change the future, then usually you inadvertantly cause precisely what you wanted to stop from happening. There is absolutely no reason to assume it's some previous turning of the Wheel. But you know what? Your belief that it's really the past she saw doesn't actually change anything. The outcome is the same for both your belief and everyone else's. Aviendha has to try to stop what she saw from happening. How she does that is the big question. So go on. Continue believing what you want to believe. You're more than welcome to. And I'm sorry if this sounds mean or anything, but I really do mean that you're welcome to your belief. I'm not trying to mock or degrade your opinion in any way.
  5. You do realize that the "future" in general is not set in the Wheel of Time, right? Prophecies are not large stone tablets which read "THIS WILL HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT!" The whole point of the scenes was to show Aviendha a version of the future which may occur. Now that she knows about them, it's up to her to save her people. What you described here, in the section I quoted, is exactly the point and it is exactly the assumption every operates under. You don't need to assume that it's the past in order to assume that she can change the future with that knowledge.
  6. Birgitte was already in the real world when Elayne bonded her. She did not "pull her from tar" by bonding her. Birgitte was forced out of the World of Dreams quite violently, and was dying. Elayne bonded her to keep her alive.
  7. Moghedien didn't kill her. Moghedien shoved her out of tel'aran'rhiod. So she didn't get "pulled back" into the real world. It was entirely intentional on Moghedien's part.
  8. You're probably reading too much into it. The prophecy states the "healing" as something intentionally done. The result of VoG (the golden light in Rand's brain) was...entirely unintentional. In fact, we honestly have no idea what it's meant. Rand cannot be said to have "healed" any "wounds of madness" because he didn't create the golden light. At least, there's no evidence to suggest that he did at this point in time. Whereas quite clearly the taint on saidin is a wound in the One Power which creates madness. And Rand healed it. While it may be tenuously valid, it's pretty unlikely as the Cleansing fits better.
  9. Fair enough, though I wasn't looking for a discussion. I just wanted to know Luckers' thoughts. Don't really care about anything else. :)
  10. I was nodding along in your perspective until this. Could you please explain how Egwene's evolution has been anything but jarring? Particularly when she was raised to Amyrlin. She went from Egwene the Aiel to Egwene the Amyrlin nearly instantly. As far as I see it, while she may have been raised to be a figurehead, she never thought of herself as one, and she was only "powerless" due to lack of knowledge. Her mindset and personality instantly shifted to "how do I keep the Hall from ignoring me?" and she successfully manipulated the entire Hall from the very beginning. I'm just curious if you could elaborate on this. Also, how did she "revert" in ToM?
  11. His quote proves that the tea has to be drunk before the time. Mea culpa. In retrospect, you're probably right. Thanks for the correction. :)
  12. The point of the quote was to indicate that Min is aware of the contraceptive tea. And considering her opinion on its use ("she should have drunk [it]") it's safe to assume she's drinking it. The quote was not someone else talking to Min or Min thinking to herself. It was Min thinking about another woman who got pregnant.
  13. I don't think that's even close to accurate. Though you could say that 75% of the story is foreshadowed in the first book, and 95% is foreshadowed in the first three, though some major foreshadowing doesn't start filling out until 4-6. I have no idea how you're disagreeing with me. "Though you could say that 75% of the story is foreshadowed in the first book, and 95% is foreshadowed in the first three." That's exactly what I just said.
  14. Faile is a wonderfully believable character. As such, I dislike her.
  15. I'm pretty certain that about 75% of the foreshadowing in the series can be found in the first book. And 95% can be found in the first three. The Eye of the World was just...written differently. So much of the book was steeped in mystery, magic, and dreams that symbolism is rampant. Brilliant start, really.
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