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Egwene ugh


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growth?

 

 

we had

 

a) a man who was stubborn and innocent, turned crazy homocidal maniac turned monk

b) a man who was stubborn and innocent turned into a pussycat, complaining on how much he hated being in charge only to suddenly start building power wrought hammers and being a man. Yeah right.

c) a man who was also stubborn and innocent who hated being tied down to a woman, likes to drink, gamble and suddenly gets married to some crazy ass woman.starts taking care of sociopathic kid. hmph.

d) a shrew of a woman with whiplash mouth and braid who suddenly has become less shrieky over the course of the series. finally realised that there are other women outside the 2 rivers who look her in the eye without flinching

 

 

some growth.

 

 

 

I haven't read everything in this thread, though I've skimmed a lot of it. Unlike most people, I actually liked Egwene in the first couple books. She was a tad overbearing, but it was just her character. In a way, she was sort of like Nynaeve (who I like). Nynaedve always thinks she's right but is comedic and has her friend's best interests at heart. Egwene, on the other hand, has been steadily getting more and more obnoxious to me as the books go on. She is constantly hypocritical (IE making those Aes Sedai swear an oath of loyalty to her than criticizing Elaida for thinking about doing the same) and refuses to listen to others. Although other characters like Rand, Elayne, and Nynaeve similarly think they're right all the time, they at least usually listen to reason if someone else gives it to them. Egwene on the other hand blindly ignores any contrary opinions and thinks she couldn't possibly be wrong.

 

While I agree that both Nynaeve and Egwene thinks that they know what is best for everyone, Nynaeve is often critizising herself in her POVs. Fool woman, coward etc etc. I can't recall Egwene having those thoughts about herself, and that is why Nynaeve, to me, is much more likable.

 

I should be dead, she realized. If Gawyn hadn't stopped these assassins,

she'd have been murdered in her sleep and would have vanished from

Tel'aran'rhiod. She'd never have killed Mesaana.

Suddenly, she felt a fool, any sense of victory completely evaporating.

 

this is probably the 100th time i posted this quote.

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growth?

 

 

we had

 

a) a man who was stubborn and innocent, turned crazy homocidal maniac turned monk

b) a man who was stubborn and innocent turned into a pussycat, complaining on how much he hated being in charge only to suddenly start building power wrought hammers and being a man. Yeah right.

c) a man who was also stubborn and innocent who hated being tied down to a woman, likes to drink, gamble and suddenly gets married to some crazy ass woman.starts taking care of sociopathic kid. hmph.

d) a shrew of a woman with whiplash mouth and braid who suddenly has become less shrieky over the course of the series. finally realised that there are other women outside the 2 rivers who look her in the eye without flinching

 

 

some growth.

 

 

 

I haven't read everything in this thread, though I've skimmed a lot of it. Unlike most people, I actually liked Egwene in the first couple books. She was a tad overbearing, but it was just her character. In a way, she was sort of like Nynaeve (who I like). Nynaedve always thinks she's right but is comedic and has her friend's best interests at heart. Egwene, on the other hand, has been steadily getting more and more obnoxious to me as the books go on. She is constantly hypocritical (IE making those Aes Sedai swear an oath of loyalty to her than criticizing Elaida for thinking about doing the same) and refuses to listen to others. Although other characters like Rand, Elayne, and Nynaeve similarly think they're right all the time, they at least usually listen to reason if someone else gives it to them. Egwene on the other hand blindly ignores any contrary opinions and thinks she couldn't possibly be wrong.

 

While I agree that both Nynaeve and Egwene thinks that they know what is best for everyone, Nynaeve is often critizising herself in her POVs. Fool woman, coward etc etc. I can't recall Egwene having those thoughts about herself, and that is why Nynaeve, to me, is much more likable.

 

I should be dead, she realized. If Gawyn hadn't stopped these assassins,

she'd have been murdered in her sleep and would have vanished from

Tel'aran'rhiod. She'd never have killed Mesaana.

Suddenly, she felt a fool, any sense of victory completely evaporating.

 

this is probably the 100th time i posted this quote.

 

One quote. You may think that their growth is off or ridicoulous but it is beliavable. I don´t have time to write much since im off to work on five mins but Rands and Mat´s arc are beliavable, and they have been growing/changing. Just look at what has happened to them and how it changes them, what there internal thought process are, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. And Nyn´s arc is one of the more beautifully written in the series.

But this is all meh... we all have our different opinions and saying on thing is right over another is futile. This is the way I feel about the chars, and Egwene and Rand, and you feel another way.

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I should be dead, she realized. If Gawyn hadn't stopped these assassins,

she'd have been murdered in her sleep and would have vanished from

Tel'aran'rhiod. She'd never have killed Mesaana.

Suddenly, she felt a fool, any sense of victory completely evaporating.

 

this is probably the 100th time i posted this quote.

 

Well, once in thirteen books? Whoop-de-f**ing-doo! As I wrote, that makes Nynaeve more likable to me. You don't have to agree.

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Guest PiotrekS

 

I should be dead, she realized. If Gawyn hadn't stopped these assassins,

she'd have been murdered in her sleep and would have vanished from

Tel'aran'rhiod. She'd never have killed Mesaana.

Suddenly, she felt a fool, any sense of victory completely evaporating.

 

this is probably the 100th time i posted this quote.

 

And havent't you also said that Egwene in ToM was totally out of character? :tongue:

 

The part when she feels she was a fool shouts "Brandon!" to me.

 

But I don't want to argue too much. You are almost a sole defender of Egwene in this thread and I always had a soft spot for people who stood against dominating views because of their convictions :tongue: She definitely should pick you over Gawyn :biggrin:

 

So I understand where your sympathy for Egwene comes from. I disagree, mainly because of my critical opionion of how her arc is written, but I think both opinions have been explained enough and both are defendable.

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A question... if we have discussed this before ignore this.

I read another thread that said something...blabla they talk about it in the Egwene bashing thread. It´s so weird that Egwene invokes so many strong feelings. Although you can dislike her-that doesn´t mean bashing. Is it that she has a badly written arc, do we expect more of her, is it because she is a powerful woman?

 

I mean.. I haven´t seen any I hate Rand threads - he is so evil, using people, only thinking about TG, not trusting anyone, selfish, crazy b*stard? (preToM)?

 

Someone said that we see Egwene as real and we are not discussing how we would react to situations in her shoes, but discussing her as though she is alive... but tbh I do this with all chars, not just Egwene.

I actually did hate Rand even more than Egwene at one point, but then she became Amyrlin and I found out he was mad. I understand he has a huge burden, but I didn't see that as enough of an excuse for his attitude, madness though...yeah, I could accept that. Besides, Rand gets plently in-book criticism, so there's really no point to complaining about anything he does, but I did anyway, between books 4-7. He already gets enough crap from other characters anyway, not to mention that he pays dearly for his stupid mistakes.

 

Egwene...yeah. Since book 2, she hasn't really gotten what she deserves for some of the retarded things she's done. Like completely ignoring Gawyn's warnings about the assassin! That would have been the perfect time for her to really lose something/someone, but dag-frakkin-nabbit! Gawyn is still alive! It also annoys me how she spits in Suian's face, and Suian practically thanks her for it. Wow, I would have at least expected her to be a little pissed off in her thoughts, but no, of course not, Egwene is the Amyrlin, and I totally deserve to be treated this way. I swear, the only one who's pointed out Egwene's meanness is Gawyn, and we all see what he's turned into now.

 

And yes, I think her arc goes beyond simple poor writing, and demonstrates a lack of common sense in the writer. I also expected more of her, but I don't hate her because she's a powerful woman...I hated her before she was powerful, just not as much.

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Egwene to my mind was written to be the WOT Uber politician when i read her parts i read them like i listen to politicians on CNN. she does good things she does bad and or questionable things but most things she does is for political positioning even when she didnt know she was politicking I even viewed her shifting affections from Galad to Gawyn as political even if not a conscious political move Galad the half brother of the future queen of andor whom elayne didnt even acknowledge as her brother to the future first prince of the sword to the future queen of andor giving herself a nice added political string in her arsenal, the politics in her character decisions are fascinating to me.

 

Watching people debate her vices and virtues is like watching republicans and democrats trying to eat each other alive so i would say the author did a good job in making her what she is.Egwene is also the character i personally feel like i know the least about, what i mean by that statement is she never solidifys into a solid persona her morals change her stances on issues change the only thing about her that has changed is her fervor into solidifying the WT as the Epitome of randland authority which fits into the character of uber politician securing her job.

Amen

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I should be dead, she realized. If Gawyn hadn't stopped these assassins,

she'd have been murdered in her sleep and would have vanished from

Tel'aran'rhiod. She'd never have killed Mesaana.

Suddenly, she felt a fool, any sense of victory completely evaporating.

 

this is probably the 100th time i posted this quote.

 

And havent't you also said that Egwene in ToM was totally out of character? :tongue:

 

The part when she feels she was a fool shouts "Brandon!" to me.

 

But I don't want to argue too much. You are almost a sole defender of Egwene in this thread and I always had a soft spot for people who stood against dominating views because of their convictions :tongue: She definitely should pick you over Gawyn :biggrin:

 

So I understand where your sympathy for Egwene comes from. I disagree, mainly because of my critical opionion of how her arc is written, but I think both opinions have been explained enough and both are defendable.

 

 

yes i still maintain that egwene of KOD/TGS is abit different from that TOM. No change there. Especially the amyrlin's anger chapter.

 

And yeah it looks like i am egwene sole defender against the hordes of rampaging amyrlin bashers. It's hard sometimes But i will stand tall and resolute. The great amyrlin's wisdom and thinking is bit too complex and high for some people. May be one day they will come to understand how the pride of tar valon works :biggrin:

 

Until then they should simply bow, kiss the ring of the amyrlin and do as they are told :tongue:

Edited by Elan Tedronai
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Egwene is a huge selfish and snobby bitch. End of story.

Thank you for supporting your comment with ecidence.

 

 

Kneel to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt.

 

Jumped-up innkeepers daughter or four centuries old demi-god? That's a toughie.

Rand was not integrated with LTT then.
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I haven't posted much here but since I started my re-read of the series I have come to realize that it is not necessarily Egwene's character that I dislike. It is the entire attitude/culture/way of life of the Aes Sedai. They believe that because they can channel that makes them better than other people. Initially Egwene was just a country girl wanting something more out of life. But she got swept up into that culture and it now a part of her. If you think about it, it not her that started everything going downhill but rather the Aes Sedai attitude from the get go.

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I haven't posted much here but since I started my re-read of the series I have come to realize that it is not necessarily Egwene's character that I dislike. It is the entire attitude/culture/way of life of the Aes Sedai. They believe that because they can channel that makes them better than other people. Initially Egwene was just a country girl wanting something more out of life. But she got swept up into that culture and it now a part of her. If you think about it, it not her that started everything going downhill but rather the Aes Sedai attitude from the get go.

 

+1

 

That´s why I think Eggy was so complex in my head. I mean, as a char, she is awesome, besides the thing that she adapts way too quickly to the AS, being the best Amrling eva, but oki I can swallow that for now. But sometimes I just wanna grab her throat and shake her till she passes out lol. And that´s prolly cause she shows the attitude/culture of the Aes Sedai and her way thinking about people is meh. It´s hard to change an attitude when you are surrounded by it. I hate Aes Sedai! Most of them... especially cause I´ve just read Duma´s Wells.... grrr.

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On that note, I think the main reason I dislike Egwene so much is that- from the moment she was raised in Salidar, she has been identifying the flaws in the whole Aes Sedai system and actively preaches about what she is going to do to change that, whilst juggling current problems with Elaida, her Sitters and her youth.

 

She is planning to bring the Sea Folk, Wise Ones, Aes Sedai and Kin together as a group of channelers, "connected" to the tower on top of the mountains of work she has to do, not only to unify the Tower, but also to help, guide, bind, force, aid, (whichever you feel is most prevalent) Rand in Tarmon Gaidon.

 

Those early chapters really do show an interesting and likeable character, especially in the face of Aes Sedai apathy and hypocrisy.

The problem really comes in when she turns into one of them as she gains control of the White Tower.

 

The Aiel loyalty she supposedly has, isn't portrayed enough.

Connecting other channelers to the tower quickly becomes a self-confessed (binding with string or w/e she said internally) manipulation.

She becomes rather hypocritical, especially in regards to the oath debacle.

She tortures Nynaeve (twice :D)

She thinks too highly of herself, especially in the face of the Seanchan attacks.

She actively hunts a Forsaken in the White Tower- who has done this in the series? Rand and? Nynaeve knew she was a match for Moghedien after their first struggle and yet still narrowly avoids becoming a "mounting block" the second time- and Egwene wants to hunt Mesaana? This just seems a little arrogant for me.

 

 

When Rand, in a previous book (not sure which one it was) said, "next time Egwene sees me, she will probably try to gentle me", it doesn't seem like such a massive leap, especially after the ToM revelations about the breaking of the seals.

 

I do really feel that the growth of Egwenes character was truly shifted from being aspirational to deliberately antagonising just so that she could face Rand as an opposing force in the conflict to break the seals, which creates great drama for the story, but in the end, opposing Rand isn't going to win you much reader support - which means we'll all find the little things that are really wrong with you and blow them out of proportion :).

 

Its not really fair in the end, which is why there is still Egwene support on the forums. Rand is just the easier character to support cos we believe we're backing the winning horse.

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