Thom and Mo? Really? Who saw that coming?

[mb]

"Who did see it coming even from the first read of the books".

I was able to "see" it during my first time through this series; a number of my past posts indicate this.

[Zhipp]

I knew it since they had that little meeting in book TSR, when Moiraine...convinced... him to go with Elayne and Nyneave. So, where's my cookie?

[Toral alCaar]

I personally was always rooting for these two. Finally my boy Thom got his girl(well maybe not girl).

[Moogle]

Ever since the letter started with "My dearest Thom".

 

It was always one of the things I disliked about the WoT though. Every single character has to hook up with someone.

[TheAngryDruid]

This was entirely NOT surprising at all.

 

As mentioned, there were lots of hints, though most had to be early since Moiraine went away in Book 5. Still, there are numerous mentions, by both characters about the fine characteristics of the other, and the stuff in TSR in Tear, both with the wondergirls and the scene where she badgers Thom into going to Tanchico are the clinchers. Plus, once you absolutely get to see the letter, it is REALLY obvious. Even if one missed the hints in books 2-4, you really should get it at that point. And then Thom carries Moiraine's letter it around with him and keeps reading it over and over, like Loial does with Erith's flower in his book, constantly longing for Mat to go rescue her. Yikes.

[graendalzooescapee]

Yeah, I did always see this coming. But I don't think that the way Moiraine expressed herself at the end of ToM was in character. I don't think she'd be that sentimental. Or that direct.

[Toral alCaar]

That one was so foreshadowed that I think that if they hadn't got together then some people would have rioted(or at least been really angry)

[Agitel]

Yeah, I did always see this coming. But I don't think that the way Moiraine expressed herself at the end of ToM was in character. I don't think she'd be that sentimental. Or that direct.

 

 

I saw it more as Moiraine finally deciding to put her interests first, at least for a little while. She's put all of her own ambitions and wants aside for the past twenty years in her hunt to find and protect the Dragon Reborn. After being captured and freed, I think she just had a bit of a turn around in her priorities, at least for a little. She doesn't always need to have her guard up, she can embrace her wants, especially after she came very close to death.

[Ace Sedai]

Honestly I didn't see it coming but when it happened I had an aha! moment.It made sense.

An aside in regards to the abrubt lovey dovey comments.

IF I PULL A NAKED WOMAN OUT OF A FIRE AND BATTLE THE FINNS,Please believe we're getting lovey dovey.

[Kal11]

I thought it was pretty obviously foreshadowed during my first read through, although I admittedly found it an odd pairing early in the series. Once you learn more about Thom and what a true player he really is though it makes a lot of sense.

[mdnyttokr]

The one part of the series that convinced me the two of them had a very strong mutual attraction was in book 4. I think it was the chapter called "Deceptions" but I'm not too sure of that. Thom and Moiraine had a conversation that started with Moiraine revealing to Thom that she knew all sorts of personal details about him that he believed he had kept secret from everyone. That didn't surprise me too much, Moiraine has always been like that, and she's very like Gandalf in the way that she always knows more than people give her credit for.

 

But then Thom started revealing to Moiraine all the personal details he knew about her, (her past, background before become Aes Sedai, and her true motivations). It seemed to me that Moiraine tried to "play Thom's game" so to speak, by impressing upon him that she can learn anything about him that she wants, but she was "one-upped" by Thom, who showed her that he had long ago learned everything about her that she didn't wish anyone to know.

 

There was a trace of rivalry tension in this scene, but I felt that when the conversation was over, the two of them came to respect one another more. Thom learned that Moiraine was NOT like other Aes Sedai at all, and Moiraine learned that Thom could knew far more than even she suspected, and possibly knew more than she knew. I think that would have been the moment where Moiraine decided she would bond him one day, if she had the opportunity.

 

I think both Thom and Moiraine would never have been happy with a significant other that they could push around or intimidate. Each one was looking for an equal, and found it in one another.

 

Good post! Thanks!

[negativejuan]

@ Metal Head - what you said makes alot of sense regarding Thom and Moiraine's intel on each other. After all, Thom taught Rand the Game of House, and he's no doubt influence Mat and Perrin too! He's someething of a legend isn't he??

[MrMatrim]

Yeah, I did always see this coming. But I don't think that the way Moiraine expressed herself at the end of ToM was in character. I don't think she'd be that sentimental. Or that direct.

 

Well, one other thing to remember is that they were both in the presence of Mat, a ta'veren. I figured it was one of those random twistings of chance, Moiraine saying something she normally would not.

[Kidicaris]

I saw it coming, we all did really because of those hints and statements other readers have pointed out.

 

It was hard to reconcile because the statements were few and the thought of a zealous Moiraine and a (suspicious of aes sedai) Thom seemed unbelievable, but we had to accept it was RJ's story and the characters would do as he pleased.

 

What I did not see coming is the open emotions and seeming character shift of the post Ghenji Moiraine. Honestly, the entire scene we got when Mat, Moiraine and Thom were catching up outside the tower just rubbed me the wrong way. What happened to that cool blue who was as married to her quest to find the Dragon and her war against the Shadow as Lan? Notice how even Lan, who is married to Nyneave (and is truly and fully in love with her) is off insanely charging against a host of shadow spawn. This isn't to say such a person has no emotions and would not be changed after a long torturous captivity by vampires. But I didn't like the way Moiraine simpered, I didn't like that such a private moment was witnessed by Mat, and I didn't think it was in character for Moiraine to offer to give up her angreal if Thom desired it.

 

Seriously.

The blue I knew, who hurled herself at a Forsaken taking both into an abyss would never give up such a powerful tool that could be used in the Last Battle. To come so far, to sacrifice so much, only to end up in the arms and the whims of a spoony bard is ridiculous.

 

Who knows, maybe RJ at the end of his life had an emotional epiphany, about love and loss and all the good and worthwhile things one takes for granted until they are about to lose it all. Maybe Moiraine's story sort of resonated with the author and what we got was a super vulnerable and open resolution. I guess after 15 years of waiting for one of my favorite characters to return to the series, I wanted more. Certainly more than pda. :)

 

Rand, Nyneave and Moiraine, now THAT is going to be unstoppable.

[negativejuan]

Rand, Nyneave and Moiraine, now THAT is going to be unstoppable.

 

Oh yeah! I hope Moiraine is right there at the end with them, after all, it was her who started this journey for them all that time ago!

 

I can't wait to see Egwene's reaction to Moiraine's reappearance, and also Siuan's!!!

 

I have a question though, is Moiraine still Aes Sedai? I'm assuming her 'death' means she has been freed of the three oaths. If she's got half a brain she'll tell them to shove it instead of reswearing!!!!

[Sertii]

i always got a sort of vibe between them since the moment they met in EoTW, but dismissed it because i thought Mo was with Lan at the time.

[Smittyphi]

I don't think Moiraine died. Lan couldn't feel the bond because she was in an alternate reality, but the Finns didn't kill her. They were just feasting on her channeling abilities. I still think she's bound by the three oaths but I can see her retiring from AS life after TG, if she survives. She would be in the Kin but not really with them as I can't see her and Thom ever being apart.

 

Of course that begs the question, when she went through the doorframes in Tear and Rhuidean, could Lan still feel the connection? Why is it different this time?

[Kidicaris]

Rand, Nyneave and Moiraine, now THAT is going to be unstoppable.

 

Oh yeah! I hope Moiraine is right there at the end with them, after all, it was her who started this journey for them all that time ago!

 

I can't wait to see Egwene's reaction to Moiraine's reappearance, and also Siuan's!!!

 

I have a question though, is Moiraine still Aes Sedai? I'm assuming her 'death' means she has been freed of the three oaths. If she's got half a brain she'll tell them to shove it instead of reswearing!!!!

 

I can't wait to see Rand's reaction. I had once hoped Moiraine would show up in time to put dark Rand back on track, but it seems Rand has done that himself. Dark Rand really needed her. Once upon a time Moiraine was THE Aes Sedai, but we've met so many incredible channelers since her "death" I wonder what Moiriane could possibly do to stand out, to be Moiraine when we readers have been getting to know (and love?) all the characters that have stepped into that void and stepped up to the challenge over the many books since.

[Terez]

I also don't see any reason to assume she's not still bound by the Oaths.

[PhoenixUK]

i didnt think they were in love until we saw moiraine's letter. But although there were hints towards it, the way they behaved in books 1-10 didn't really show any real affection for each other. When exactly did they fall in love? The last time they spoke, moiraine made sure thom was manipulated into leaving Tear and he seemed v bitter at her about it

[sleepinghour]

Who knows, maybe RJ at the end of his life had an emotional epiphany, about love and loss and all the good and worthwhile things one takes for granted until they are about to lose it all.

I've sometimes wondered what it must have been like for RJ to work on WoT in his final days, writing not only about a man doomed to die young, but also about the women's (Nynaeve, Elayne, Min, Aviendha) fear and pain at losing the man they love. It can't have been easy.

 

As for Moiraine, she was the one who always said of Cairhienin that when their reserve broke, it could do so to a surprising degree. The hope of Thom rescuing her was probably the only thing that kept her going all those months, so maybe it isn't that strange for her to decide not to waste more time and miss that chance at happiness. I've often found Moiraine too cold and difficult to relate to, so I actually liked that scene. It made her seem more human.

[stoneface]

Not that I saw it coming, but guys who are interested in gals often take up the gal's cause (or vise versa, but not relevant here). Thom helped Rand and the other TR folk with survival skills (how often did Rand play for his supper?), and possibly part of Thom's motivation was Moiraine's focus on the DR and his ta'veren friends.

[negativejuan]

Rand, Nyneave and Moiraine, now THAT is going to be unstoppable.

 

Oh yeah! I hope Moiraine is right there at the end with them, after all, it was her who started this journey for them all that time ago!

 

I can't wait to see Egwene's reaction to Moiraine's reappearance, and also Siuan's!!!

 

I have a question though, is Moiraine still Aes Sedai? I'm assuming her 'death' means she has been freed of the three oaths. If she's got half a brain she'll tell them to shove it instead of reswearing!!!!

 

I can't wait to see Rand's reaction. I had once hoped Moiraine would show up in time to put dark Rand back on track, but it seems Rand has done that himself. Dark Rand really needed her. Once upon a time Moiraine was THE Aes Sedai, but we've met so many incredible channelers since her "death" I wonder what Moiriane could possibly do to stand out, to be Moiraine when we readers have been getting to know (and love?) all the characters that have stepped into that void and stepped up to the challenge over the many books since.

 

I suppose for me it's the list of womens' names that runs (ran?) through Rand's head (he's not done that for a while!). Moiraine was the first that hit him. I just remember him going on a bender and one of the Maidens (Sulin?) about to snap all her spears in front of him and telling him there was a queue of Maidens outside ready to do the same so he better man up and get some honour.

 

Honestly, I'm glad Rand found his way out of the darkness, Lews voice has gone and it was something he learnt himself, through a varying array of emotions. If someone like Moiraine was there to whip it out of him, he would have just snapped, never channelled the TP (scary) and probably be on a leash to one of the Forsaken/Chosen. Look at Cadsuane, she couldn't talk him off a ledge into hell, she's a bully who learnt her place eventually.

 

I think Rand has a particular respect for Moiraine, especially in retrospect, because she not only brought him into that life, she was teaching him in her own tough love kind of way to learn and adapt. Admittedly she tried to bully them all at first, but I think at the point of her death, her character had evolved into someone hugely different from the woman we met in The Eye Of The World. And it sounds like Perrin and certainly Mat are seeing that about her.

[negativejuan]

I don't think Moiraine died. Lan couldn't feel the bond because she was in an alternate reality, but the Finns didn't kill her. They were just feasting on her channeling abilities. I still think she's bound by the three oaths but I can see her retiring from AS life after TG, if she survives. She would be in the Kin but not really with them as I can't see her and Thom ever being apart.

 

Of course that begs the question, when she went through the doorframes in Tear and Rhuidean, could Lan still feel the connection? Why is it different this time?

 

I also don't see any reason to assume she's not still bound by the Oaths.

 

That's a good point Smittyphi. My interpretation of that was that the connection was severed as it would in death, and that's why Lan went a bit nuts and had to be treated like a bomb about to go off. That's why I am leaning more towards her actually 'dying'. I know she wasn't stilled (though if the Finns were sucking away her power, I imagine she eventually would be), but she may have died by being sent to another dimension.

[ina sakhanskaya]

I personally didn't notice any affection between Mo and Thom but frankly speaking it was the most disappointing and perhaps even disgusting scene in ToM. Thom is OLD! excuse me RJ, but how could you make a couple of these two??????? YAK