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I know the reason is that the story wouldn't happen if it was, but now that Saidin is clean why doesn't Rand use the Choedan Kal? Like, that could probably end any physical conflict before it happened. It'd make the last battle a cakewalk.

Edited by EmperorAllspice

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I know the reason is that the story wouldn't happen if it was, but now that Saidin is clean why doesn't Rand use the Choedan Kal? Like, that could probably end any physical conflict before it happened. It'd make the last battle a cakewalk.

I dunno. I'd rather think that a collection of average-strength angreal for the Light Side Channelers would have given them the desperate edge. But who knows? Perrin's Ashaman take the CK and blow up the dark side forces?

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And what in the name of hell does that mean? Dangerous how? Hell the Black Tower are dangerous, you don't see him fearing to use them.

a saangreal capable of destroying the world?

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And what in the name of hell does that mean? Dangerous how? Hell the Black Tower are dangerous, you don't see him fearing to use them.

 

The Black Tower is dangerous, but it doesn't have the power to destroy the world. That anywhere near that power. Recall that Rand is LTT reborn, and LTT argued from the very beginning that the CK are something that were far too powerful and too frightening ever to use.

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But he's Ta'veren. The pattern obviously isn't going to let that happen. Rand has used the logic of "I doubt the Pattern would let me die here" in the past

 

The pattern let him get emprisoned by Elaida, let Fain cut him with the dagger, let Semirhage blow off his hand, and let Semirhage put a collar on him. Had Rand not reached out for the Dark One's power, Min would be dead, and who knows what would have happened to Rand. And with the Dark One unraveling the pattern, the access key getting stolen is far from far fetched.

 

And in any case LTT believed that brute force was not the way to defeat the Dark One. Having regained all his memories as LTT, Rand would certainly believe that as well.

Edited by Master Ablar

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then how did the DO talk with people?

 

Dude I'm the Dark One, and the Great Lord of the Dark, and the Father of Lies, and Sightblinder, and the Lord of the Grave, and the Shepherd of the Night, and Heartsbane, and Hearfang, and Grassburner, and Leafblighter, and Lighteater, and.... well you get the picture."

 

What do you mean? Once the bore was created, the Dark One could presumably converse with someone who came near him. Obviously the DO isn't going to tell that person Dude I'm the Dark One, and the Great Lord of the Dark, and the Father of Lies, and Sightblinder, and the Lord of the Grave, and the Shepherd of the Night, and Heartsbane, and Hearfang, and Grassburner, and Leafblighter, and Lighteater, and.... well you get the picture."

 

Instead he probably told them "You want to be rich, handsome, and famous? Follow me!!!"

 

 

:)  May well start referring to him as GB instead of the DO from now on.

 

 

Could the Gholam have beaten the Choedan Kal? If so then shame on Sammael for putting it on the wrong scent, the WH fight would've been teh perfect place for it

 

Not sure what you mean by beaten?  I don't think that adding more power into something like a fireball would have effected the gholam but eventually it was beaten by the Power (more so than Mat imo, who was only really acting as bait).

 

I may be wrong on chronology, but the gholam was told to kill Mat before the FS found out about the plans to cleanse the source, I'm not sure how contactable he was once he'd been sent on his mission.

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Could the Gholam have beaten the Choedan Kal? If so then shame on Sammael for putting it on the wrong scent, the WH fight would've been teh perfect place for it

The gholam was so effective because in general, by the time an AS realizes that direct attacks don't work, it's too late.  Even without the CK, a prepared AS could still defend herself reasonably well against a gholam.  Smash it with a rock and incinerate it with flames produced around it, and not directly on it, gateway followed by a rock to knock it through.  Plenty of options if a channeler knows what he/she is getting into beforehand.

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There are/were two Bores:

1. Is a place in the Pattern where it is possible to detect the DO

2. The DO's prison.

 

1-A is where Shayol Gul is now, the explosion of a hole being "bored" through the pattern into the DO's prison, and the destruction of the Sharom, is a real-world area where the pattern is "thin" and the DO can influence from beyond the bore.

 

As far as the DO being able to cause wholesale destruction, that is debatable. Perhaps until he is fully freed, the limit of his power is changing the weather? It's been theorized on theoryland that the wholesale pattern unraveling shit was caused by balefire.

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On the DO and Forsaken...

Interview: Jan 25th, 2005Week 1 Question
The Dark One has promised his followers immortality and power above all others on the Day of Return. In previous interviews you have said that this is within his power. My question is, will he? I mean, he doesn't seem very loyal or trustworthy to me. If (Light forbid) he breaks free, will he remember the "little people" or just destroy all the puny humans when he remakes the world in his own image?
Robert Jordan
That's the big question for the Forsaken, isn't it. Can they trust the Dark One? You're right; he isn't very trustworthy or loyal. Greed leads people to believe strange things, to excuse the most abhorrent behavior on their parts—just check out the nightly news for confirmation—and at the root, that is what motivates the Forsaken and, in truth, most Darkfriends. Greed for power, greed for immortality. That makes them believe, because they want to believe. So will he grant these things? Maybe. After all, he gains more willing followers, more eager followers, if he is seen to give rewards. But will he care whether he has any followers at all in a world where he is all-powerful? Flip a coin and check which way the wind is blowing. Maybe you can find the answer there.
 
In regards to the bore it exists everywhere:
 
Robert Jordan
No, no, no. Because of the Bore and the fact that the bore is best perceived, the Bore doesn't really exist in Shayol Ghul, the Bore exists everywhere, it's simply in Shayol Ghul where it can be perceived most easily.

 

The DO wasn't totally free, he was chipping away at the bore making it larger however and as he did so his ability to influence the world increased.

Edited by Suttree

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Doesn't it still no sell attacks that aren't foxhead medalion based?

No, effects by the OP aren't the OP.  Just like...Jolina?  Smacks Mat with a thrown stick (or rock or whatever it was).  She can't weave against  him directly, but secondary effects work just fine.  Now, a gholum is MUCH more durable than a normal person, we one get stabbed and slashed and it shrugged it off, but I don't think they are invincible.

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Then if the bore was created... how come the DO didn't reach through and wreck shit. Or could he only reach a certain distance?

 

The bore was never open enough to allow the Dark One unlimited access.  As Sutt says the DO was working on making it bigger tho. 

 

It was one of the arguments against both of the 'ultimate' methods the Light devised for dealing with the DO and the bore. 

 

LTTs sides plan of sealing the DO was considered too risky as a false move could have shattered the bore allowing the DO full access to Randland.  The second method involved placing a barrier around Shayol Ghul using the CK, LTTs side argued that this meant that when they removed the barrier to deal with the bore that the DO could well be free.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/Books/Strike_at_Shayol_Ghul/index.php

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Always loved that last quote from the SaSG.

 

"Whoever read this, if any remain to read it, weep for us who have no more tears. Pray for us who are damned alive."

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The Bore isn't a hole. It's a bit of a misnomer. I prefer to think of the Pattern as a very big knitted blanked (or woven tapestry, if you prefer). The creation of the "Bore" was like stretching that knitting, putting strain on the threads, and loosening how the threads are woven together. Where before it was tight, now it's loose. The Pattern is the most "stretched out" at the Bore, but it exists across all of it. When the Pattern was tightly woven, the Dark One couldn't get his dirty little fingers through. Once the Pattern was "stretched out," the Dark One's able to get his fingers into the gaps and start pulling and stretching it more. The looser the weaving, the more the Dark One is able to influence what's going on in the world.

Edited by Agitel

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Always loved that last quote from the SaSG.

 

"Whoever read this, if any remain to read it, weep for us who have no more tears. Pray for us who are damned alive."

 

 

One of my favorite bits of writing from the entire series (the whole story, not just the last quote, although that probably does make it near the top of the memorable quotes)

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Actually, why DIDN'T the pattern just make Demandred the one to become Ta'veren?

I recall from somewhere (do not remember where) that taveren are not Darkfriends when they become taveren.  I think the same place also tells that they could become Darkfriends after they became taveren; though that might have been told somewhere else.

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Actually, why DIDN'T the pattern just make Demandred the one to become Ta'veren?

I recall from somewhere (do not remember where) that taveren are not Darkfriends when they become taveren.  I also recall (from either same place or somewhere else) that they could become Darkfriends after they became taveren.

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This always bothered me. after elayne and nynaeve use need to find the Bowl of Winds in TAR, they can't find it again using need because "you can't have your cake and eat it too". Why can't they find it again by picturing "the dusty storeroom, with the iron chest, that has the BoW" or somesuch? 

This always bugged me.

(and why did they run outside the stairs, instead of just 'imagining' themselves on the roof, or in the front of the building, etc?)

 

Could a person who entered TAR in person travel to another TAR location the same way someone who dreamed into TAR can?

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This always bothered me. after elayne and nynaeve use need to find the Bowl of Winds in TAR, they can't find it again using need because "you can't have your cake and eat it too". Why can't they find it again by picturing "the dusty storeroom, with the iron chest, that has the BoW" or somesuch? 

This always bugged me.

(and why did they run outside the stairs, instead of just 'imagining' themselves on the roof, or in the front of the building, etc?)

 

Could a person who entered TAR in person travel to another TAR location the same way someone who dreamed into TAR can?

I'm guessing just to add tension and plot, but if you want to justify it I suppose need only works once, and describing a room isn't the same as knowing where it is, so that stopped them from finding it that way.

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This always bothered me. after elayne and nynaeve use need to find the Bowl of Winds in TAR, they can't find it again using need because "you can't have your cake and eat it too". Why can't they find it again by picturing "the dusty storeroom, with the iron chest, that has the BoW" or somesuch? 

This always bugged me.

(and why did they run outside the stairs, instead of just 'imagining' themselves on the roof, or in the front of the building, etc?)

 

Could a person who entered TAR in person travel to another TAR location the same way someone who dreamed into TAR can?

I'm guessing just to add tension and plot, but if you want to justify it I suppose need only works once, and describing a room isn't the same as knowing where it is, so that stopped them from finding it that way.

 

Egwene didn't know where the museum in the Panarch's palace was (or even the palace itself) in Tanchico, yet she was able to go there just from an illustration in a book. Need only works once, i got that. But if it was so important, they would remember enough of the dusty room to go back there.

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