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Is Moiraine still bound to the Oaths (since she still lives) or were they "disconnected" (since her bond with Lan was disconnected)?

 

The warder bond was severed, not her connection to the source. One would think that the oaths hold.

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Is Moiraine still bound to the Oaths (since she still lives) or were they "disconnected" (since her bond with Lan was disconnected)?

 

The warder bond was severed, not her connection to the source. One would think that the oaths hold.

 

Its an interesting question though.  What exactly caused the Warder bond to be severed?  Moiraine wasn't dead and she wasn't stilled.  We know that neither oaths nor warder bond are affected by travelling through different dimensions (or whatever they're called) as we have seen Moiraine and Lan travel via portal stone.  I don't think we have enough information to answer, but would assume that they still hold as it hasn't been explicitly stated otherwise.

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Is Moiraine still bound to the Oaths (since she still lives) or were they "disconnected" (since her bond with Lan was disconnected)?

 

The warder bond was severed, not her connection to the source. One would think that the oaths hold.

 

Its an interesting question though.  What exactly caused the Warder bond to be severed?

 

It was do to the severing of the link between worlds.

 

 

Interview: Aug 31st, 2011

Reddit AMA 2011 (Verbatim)

Terez

Why did Moiraine's bond with Lan break when the doorway burned? Did she intentionally release it?

Brandon Sanderson

She did not intentionally release it. RJ has something about this in the notes, but I don't have the quote handy. It basically has to do with the severing of the link between worlds.

 

When the portal was destroyed it destroyed the bond.

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This is one that's been making me wonder for a while: Just how good is Rand at military strategy? Like, from everything I've seen he's more of an "That's so crazy it just might work" kind of guy. More prone to coming up with good ideas now and then rather than constantly.

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Before VoG? I'd bet he probably has the makings of a pretty damn good military strategists considering he's LTT reborn. But he's severely lacking in knowledge and experience.

 

Post VoG? Basically as good as LTT was. Which means pretty much on the same level as Demandred, who's number 1 for the shadow. Better than the Great Captains I would imagine.

Edited by Master Ablar

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It was the only thing Demandred equalled Lews Therin in. It isn't clear if he was better or not. I'd say yes purely because Lews Therin was softer than Demandred and wouldn't take the risks Demandred would. However, Lews Therin was given command because he was ta'veren and much more charismatic. 

 

No wonder Barid was pissed. 

 

And considering how that turned out for the Light, he wasn't exactly wrong in thinking Lews Therin didn't have what it takes to win either. 

Edited by Barid Bel Medar

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It actually makes it hard for me to hate Demandred.

 

Because the story itself pretty much says that natrual talent trumps everything and Lews was only better than Demandy because the Pattern wanted him to be.

Edited by EmperorAllspice

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I think Demandred is an extremely sympathetic character. He basically hated the Pattern for being an ass. 

 

I mean, the guy was even born the day after Lews Therin, it was like the Pattern hated him. He spend 396 years of just losing out to Lews Therin - when he finds something he is better at, the Pattern goes all ta'veren and puts Lews Therin ahead again. 

 

I mean, it doesn't excuse all the crap he did as one of the Forsaken, but the guy had a point. He didn't do any of it because he liked killing. In fact, Demandred never enjoyed war, or killing people. His frustration was built up for so long he couldn't contain it - and Demandred emerged from the second greatest man of the age. 

 

It's a tragic story. 

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Probably not at war. 

 

However, Lews Therin wasn't ta'veren his whole life. He was most likely only ta'veren when the war started. 

 

I think that's why Demandred was so pissed when he was given overall command. For once in his life he was better at Lews Therin - then the Pattern comes along and makes him ta'veren and gives him the edge. 

 

Note: There is no direct confirmation that Lews Therin was Ta'veren, but it is extremely unlike he wasn't. 

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Actually, why DIDN'T the pattern just make Demandred the one to become Ta'veren?

 

I get that with Rand, Mat and Perrin the PAttern needed a very versatile group of pawns who could fit themselves into multiple roles and have influence over many types of people. Rand has Aiel blood so is in a better chance to have sway over them but also grew up in Two Rivers so has more of a connection to Randland which is where the battle will take place. yadda yadda yadda.

 

But in this case it just seems like the Pattern is making more work for itself. Was there any reason why Lews has to be Ta'veren?

Edited by EmperorAllspice

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Well Lews Therin WAS better in all other areas. 

 

He was stronger in the Power, more skilled at weaves etc.. 

 

At the point Lews Therin was made Ta'veren, Demandred was already on his way to the Shadow. 

 

I doubt Demandred would have done better than Lews Therin as the Dragon.

 

However, it is interesting to note that Demandred, Be'lal and Sammael all betrayed the Light because of Lews Therin. (However, although he was a bit of an ass, it could be that they Sammael and Be'lal would have turned if it was Demandred. They seemed jealous of the power. Demandred's hatred was specifically Lews Therin because of all the crap he endured over 390 odd years.)

 

(Also, it is Lews Therin's soul that is the Champion of Light, so it was already decided, even if others were better suited.) 

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I'm not sure LTT was ever ta'veren. At the least, he was not anywhere close to the "strength" Rand is, and probably not even Artur Hawking. The Forsaken are completely unfamiliar with the concept of ta'veren in the Age of Legends. They note that sometimes LTT was considered lucky, but it's obvious they've never seen the type of Pattern warping they've encountered in the Third Age, and that perhaps explains some of their foolishness early on in trying to fight Rand one-to-one.

Edited by Agitel

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Aginor claimed to have matched LTT stroke for stroke in the Hall of Servants in what was presumably a duel. Of course Aginor may be exagerating or only telling part of the truth.

 

I recall Lanfear claiming that Sammael never defeated LTT once during the War of Power. And considering how good Sammael was, that's pretty impressive. 

 

I don't know that either Demandred or LTT was better. It's probably so close that there is no practical difference. Of course Demandred would claim he was better, and that's to be expected. In any case, taveren would make things lean towards LTT I would say, and while Demandred was right that the Light would lose with LTT at the head of the armies, it really has nothing to do with LTT being in charge. Considering his head to head record with Sammael, LTT was probably the only reason the war lasted as long as it did. It was really sheer number the shadow could bring forward that tilted the scales.

 

I also wonder what kind of person LTT. While a lot of the Forsaken clearly dislike him, Bel'al also says that LTT always his heart ahead of power. And LTT, in Rand's head, claims he never gave Demandred any less than his due. Personally I think LTT was just that dude who's annoying super talented at everything, and whether or not he was boastful or arrogant, he probably acted to competitive with certain people, particularly Demandred, which ended up driving a wedge between them.

Edited by Master Ablar

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Also, how did Dark One get any followers? Who in their right mind would trust a man named THE FATHER OF LIES!!!? He's EVIL. He's pure unadulterated scum and yet all his men are convinced that he'll reward them. If no one followed him then he would have no army. So there'd be no reason to fear retribution for not siding with him.

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At the time, nobody knew what the DO was. The whole father of lies and such is a third age thing. All they knew is this god-like power is granting them all this awesome stuff and says he will make them immortal. It wasn't until later on that they discovered the true nature of the DO, and many had already gone over - it was too late to go back. 

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Wait, how did the war go. Did they create a whole in the Dark One's prison THEN start fighting. Or was the Bore created near the end of the war. If it's the former, then how come the DO didn't reach through and stomp everything, and if it's the latter, then how did the DO communicate to them?

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I'm not sure LTT was ever ta'veren. At the least, he was not anywhere close to the "strength" Rand is, and probably not even Artur Hawking. The Forsaken are completely unfamiliar with the concept of ta'veren in the Age of Legends. They note that sometimes LTT was considered lucky, but it's obvious they've never seen the type of Pattern warping they've encountered in the Third Age, and that perhaps explains some of their foolishness early on in trying to fight Rand one-to-one.

 

I'd be shocked if the guy who's considered the greatest of his age, was not very powerfully taveren. And yeah, one of them, can't remember who, said that LTT made luck like a mint made coin or something. That's rather telling. 

 

I'm pretty sure the Forsaken are perfectly aware of the concept of taveren. Ishamael knew how to locate them because they were taveren, and probably Lanfear too. The way they talk about it in the 3rd chapter of KoD makes it pretty clear that it's familiar to them.

 

I think they thought they could take Rand one on one simply because he was completely uneducated at that point. That, and they're arrogant, and probably overestimate their own abilites while underestimating others.

Edited by Master Ablar

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Wait, how did the war go. Did they create a whole in the Dark One's prison THEN start fighting. Or was the Bore created near the end of the war. If it's the former, then how come the DO didn't reach through and stomp everything, and if it's the latter, then how did the DO communicate to them?

 

The bore was created by Lanfear, before she turned to the shadow of course and a male Aes Sedai named Beidomon, who would later kill himself.

 

Following that there was a period of around 100 years called the collapsed. During this period generally got darker, more dangerous, and generally amoral. Many of the Forsaken, join the Dark One during this period either secretly like Graendal, or openly like Ishamael.

 

Then the war started, Demandred joins the shadow in the third year of the war, Sammael in the 4th. Ironically it was during the first 3 years that the Shadow gained a lot of territory, and in the next 3, if I recall correctly, that the Light under LTT regained most of the lost territory. In other words exactly when Demandred and Sammael joined the shadow. Then things got bad.

 

For chronology I find the seven spokes to be a pretty good source.

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Wait, how did the war go. Did they create a whole in the Dark One's prison THEN start fighting. Or was the Bore created near the end of the war. If it's the former, then how come the DO didn't reach through and stomp everything, and if it's the latter, then how did the DO communicate to them?

 

The bore was created by Lanfear, before she turned to the shadow of course and a male Aes Sedai named Beidomon, who would later kill himself.

 

Following that there was a period of around 100 years called the collapsed. During this period generally got darker, more dangerous, and generally amoral. Many of the Forsaken, join the Dark One during this period either secretly like Graendal, or openly like Ishamael.

 

Then the war started, Demandred joins the shadow in the third year of the war, Sammael in the 4th. Ironically it was during the first 3 years that the Shadow gained a lot of territory, and in the next 3, if I recall correctly, that the Light under LTT regained most of the lost territory. In other words exactly when Demandred and Sammael joined the shadow. Then things got bad.

 

For chronology I find the seven spokes to be a pretty good source.

 

Wait, so Demandred and Sammael were responsible for Team Shadow losing all their headway?

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then how did the DO talk with people?

 

 

What do you mean? Once the bore was created, the Dark One could presumably converse with someone who came near him. Obviously the DO isn't going to tell that person Dude I'm the Dark One, and the Great Lord of the Dark, and the Father of Lies, and Sightblinder, and the Lord of the Grave, and the Shepherd of the Night, and Heartsbane, and Hearfang, and Grassburner, and Leafblighter, and Lighteater, and.... well you get the picture."

 

Instead he probably told them "You want to be rich, handsome, and famous? Follow me!!!"

Edited by Master Ablar

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Wait, how did the war go. Did they create a whole in the Dark One's prison THEN start fighting. Or was the Bore created near the end of the war. If it's the former, then how come the DO didn't reach through and stomp everything, and if it's the latter, then how did the DO communicate to them?

 

The bore was created by Lanfear, before she turned to the shadow of course and a male Aes Sedai named Beidomon, who would later kill himself.

 

Following that there was a period of around 100 years called the collapsed. During this period generally got darker, more dangerous, and generally amoral. Many of the Forsaken, join the Dark One during this period either secretly like Graendal, or openly like Ishamael.

 

Then the war started, Demandred joins the shadow in the third year of the war, Sammael in the 4th. Ironically it was during the first 3 years that the Shadow gained a lot of territory, and in the next 3, if I recall correctly, that the Light under LTT regained most of the lost territory. In other words exactly when Demandred and Sammael joined the shadow. Then things got bad.

 

For chronology I find the seven spokes to be a pretty good source.

 

Wait, so Demandred and Sammael were responsible for Team Shadow losing all their headway?

 

 

Nah, I was just picking on them. More like LTT managed to turn the tables. Eventually the shadow turned things around. But that's why I'm not convinced that Demandred was a better at war than LTT. I'd say they're about as even as can be.

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