Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Luckers

Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

Recommended Posts

I think there's still a tiny bit of miscommunication going on somewhere. Zhon, I'm fairly sure Suttree knows how the a'dam works. What he said he didn't understand, was 0rion's original question;

 

How you think Tuon gave to Joline a pain through the a'dam or here was something other?

 

And I didn't really get it at first, either, but I think it's a matter of punctuation. I believe what they were trying to ask is; How do you think Tuon gave to Joline pain; through the a'dam or some other means?

 

And the answer would be, through the a'dam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why can't Egwene be dressed down once successfully? I don't get how I'm supposed to be invested in her if she's unstoppably amazing at everything, almost always wins, and doesn't seem to flinch when she doesn't. And no one has ever been able to score any kind of win against her. Even when she's stuck as a damn novice she's still successfully dressing down Aes Sedai without any effort!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Give it time.

 

And there are plenty of threads dedicated to Egwene bashing, so you're not alone in your annoyance.

There's only 3 books to go. and I hear she's even WORSE in the Sanderson books!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why can't Egwene be dressed down once successfully? I don't get how I'm supposed to be invested in her if she's unstoppably amazing at everything, almost always wins, and doesn't seem to flinch when she doesn't. And no one has ever been able to score any kind of win against her. Even when she's stuck as a damn novice she's still successfully dressing down Aes Sedai without any effort!

Very vague spoilers:

she does eventually get subdued physically/locked up, but no, she never 'mentally' breaks.

 

 

I think the problem with Egwene is that she had her low-point (mentally and emotionally) very early in the series when she was damane in book 2.  From that point onwards her arc is pretty much a climb up.  Even her Novice time doesn't dent her self-confidence an inch.  Many of the other characters have the knocks to their confidence much later (e.g. Rand from LoC-tGS, Perrin from aPoD-ToM, Nynaeve from tFoH-KoD).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Why can't Egwene be dressed down once successfully? I don't get how I'm supposed to be invested in her if she's unstoppably amazing at everything, almost always wins, and doesn't seem to flinch when she doesn't. And no one has ever been able to score any kind of win against her. Even when she's stuck as a damn novice she's still successfully dressing down Aes Sedai without any effort!

Very vague spoilers:

she does eventually get subdued physically/locked up, but no, she never 'mentally' breaks.

 

 

I think the problem with Egwene is that she had her low-point (mentally and emotionally) very early in the series when she was damane in book 2.  From that point onwards her arc is pretty much a climb up.  Even her Novice time doesn't dent her self-confidence an inch.  Many of the other characters have the knocks to their confidence much later (e.g. Rand from LoC-tGS, Perrin from aPoD-ToM, Nynaeve from tFoH-KoD).

 

and people like Cads never gets her moment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

and people like Cads never gets her moment

 

RAFO

 

If someone gives Cads the same kind of treatment Nynaeve gets starting around Fires of Heaven I will shave myself bald save for a topknot and go out to fight the blight myself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the True Power weave that allows control of an animal; do all 5 senses of the animal get to the channeler or just sight and sound?

Towers of Midnight Prologue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it more or does it seem like Ishamael hasn't actually done much since the series began?

 

He killed a Ta'veren in Hawkwing. He started the trolloc wars and kept the world in this sorry state but since the series began he's been doing bugger all but fail. He was said to be saner as Moridin but he still hasn't been doing much and he's angry ALL the time.

 

Isn't he meant to be smart? Wasn't he all "Rand is dancing to my tune"

 

I was getting excited for a second there I thought he was up to something competent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In either book 6 or 7, did Sammael actually manage to persuade Graendal into working with him?

 

Like did his ploy of sending that rigged messenger to Rand actually work in making Graendal think he might genuinely have the upper hand? Or was that all manipulation on her part?

 

Cuz I could've sworn he was legitimately in charge of their alliance for at least a limited time.

 

I thought the idea was meant to be that behind his overwhelming arrogance Sammael actually did have considerable brains, just not as many as he thought he had

Edited by EmperorAllspice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it more or does it seem like Ishamael hasn't actually done much since the series began?

 

He killed a Ta'veren in Hawkwing. He started the trolloc wars and kept the world in this sorry state but since the series began he's been doing bugger all but fail. He was said to be saner as Moridin but he still hasn't been doing much and he's angry ALL the time.

 

Isn't he meant to be smart? Wasn't he all "Rand is dancing to my tune"

 

I was getting excited for a second there I thought he was up to something competent.

 

I read a very good post somewhere on these here forums about how Moridin seemed to spend most of his time towards the end of the series "getting high on True Power"... But I can't seem to find it again. (It was probably in the AMoL forum.)

 

As in, no, it's not just you. And damn, I really want to find that post again because I wanted to reference it somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About Ishamael; he seemed most active during the first 2 books.  manipulating several dreams of the 3 taveren in the first book; several encounters with Rand in the second book and giving orders to various Darkfriends in the Prologue.  Moridin seemed most active during books 7 & 8 and in the Sanderson books.

 

About Sammael & Graendal; her cooperation with him seemed to be at least partly due to whom could detect the channeling of the other.  Not sure if Sammael convinced Graendal of the supposed truce with Rand; the convincing might have been likely, though it might have been likely that she was playing along.

 

 

unanswered::

the True Power weave that allows control of an animal; do all 5 senses of the animal get to the channeler or just sight and sound?

Towers of Midnight Prologue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the True Power weave that allows control of an animal; do all 5 senses of the animal get to the channeler or just sight and sound?

Towers of Midnight Prologue.

 

As this is the general forum, I will post my answer under a spoiler because I don't know in which book it appears (though I dont know if it's really worth a spoiler ;-) ) :)

 

 

As far as I recall, we only see Greandal really controlling an animal later on in the books. She can see through its eyes, hear what the bird hears - but only understand what the bird "understands" - and she can make the bird fly to the direction she wants. I think that means the channeler gets all the senses of the animal, but only as far as the animal has the senses and it's brain "translates" the senses (as i racall, Greandall sees "blurry" through the dove's eyes because that's the way the dove sees the world).

 

 

Sorry if this isn't understandable, im a foreign english speaker :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question related to balefire. This is mainly a hypothetical question, and it's really just to use in a "Werewolf" game on another forum.

 

Let there be 4 people - A, B, C and D. 

 

The idea - B wishes to kill A. B shoots an arrow but C jumps in front of A and takes the arrow. C is injured and A survives.

 

Should D balefire C so that C did not exist prior to the jump, would A then be affected by arrow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question related to balefire. This is mainly a hypothetical question, and it's really just to use in a "Werewolf" game on another forum.

 

Let there be 4 people - A, B, C and D. 

 

The idea - B wishes to kill A. B shoots an arrow but C jumps in front of A and takes the arrow. C is injured and A survives.

 

Should D balefire C so that C did not exist prior to the jump, would A then be affected by arrow?

It depends on when C was balefire'd and the strength of D's channeling.  The stronger the balefire, the farther back time is affected.  If D's balefire is weak enough that it only affects time by a second or two, A would probably still be safe.  On the other hand, if D's went back by a minute or so, then A would probably be calling out "Message for you sir!"  as he drops dead from the arrow.

Edited by Zhon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Question related to balefire. This is mainly a hypothetical question, and it's really just to use in a "Werewolf" game on another forum.

 

Let there be 4 people - A, B, C and D. 

 

The idea - B wishes to kill A. B shoots an arrow but C jumps in front of A and takes the arrow. C is injured and A survives.

 

Should D balefire C so that C did not exist prior to the jump, would A then be affected by arrow?

 

It depends on when B was balefire'd and the strength of D's channeling.  The stronger the balefire, the farther back time is affected.  If D's balefire is weak enough that it only affects time by a second or two, A would probably still be safe.  On the other hand, if D's went back by a minute or so, then A would probably be calling out "Message for you sir!"  as he drops dead from the arrow.

 

The bolded bit seems to indicate that Vieira meant the balefire to be strong enough to remove C from the pattern before they intercepted the arrow.

 

And yes, it would seem most logical to me that A would, in this scenario, be hit by the arrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why didn't the Pattern do something to deal with the Seanchan during the many years between their departure and their return? Like create a Ta'veren within the seanchan empire to make them more benevolent towards the Dragon Reborn when he's born. (the rest of reality contrived itself to make helping the Dragon Reborn a priority after all. Look at the Aiel and the Sea Folk)

 

I know the Pattern used MAt to deal with it when they arrived. But not before they caused a heap ton of conflict and weakened the Forces of Light considerably. Wouldn't the pattern have wanted to minimize damage as much as possible before the final battle? It's not like they haven't contrived a crap ton of other stuff years in advance.

Edited by EmperorAllspice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Seanchan and the damage they caused was one of Ishy's most brilliant schemes. Usually you like that sort of thing from your villains Emperor.

 

As for the pattern, that's not really how it works.

Edited by Suttree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Seanchan and the damage they caused was one of Ishy's most brilliant schemes. Usually you like that sort of thing from your villains Emperor.

 

As for the pattern, that's not really how it works.

I still wanna know HOW the patterns works. It can apparently set things YEARS in advance. and can predict events. and can maneuver peopleinto advantageous positions. If Ishy tricked or subverted the Pattern then I want to know exactly how he did it. If I don't know, then I can't be happy about him doing it.

Edited by EmperorAllspice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my understanding, the Pattern can spin out taveren at any time and at any place.

There might have been at least one taveren on the Seanchan continent during the mentioned time and no one knowing about it.

Not sure if a taveren on that continent could have changed their behavior towards the Dragon Reborn (or towards anyone on main continent).

 

The main goal of the Pattern (if it has goals) would be that there be balance.  taveren are spun out when things start to become unbalanced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my understanding, the Pattern can spin out taveren at any time and at any place.

There might have been at least one taveren on the Seanchan continent during the mentioned time and no one knowing about it.

Not sure if a taveren on that continent could have changed their behavior towards the Dragon Reborn (or towards anyone on main continent).

 

The main goal of the Pattern (if it has goals) would be that there be balance.  taveren are spun out when things start to become unbalanced.

I'd call conflict against the saviour of the pattern and harming his chances of winning in the last battle to be pretty darn unbalanced

Edited by EmperorAllspice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Interview: Jul, 2002

 

Question

Does ta’veren-ness ebb and flow as needed? If Rand, Mat, and Perrin were all ta’veren growing up, it seems that the Two Rivers would have had a lot of odd events occurring, but no mention is made of it.

 

Robert Jordan

You might say that ta’veren-ness ebbs and flows. For one thing, remember that even for someone like Rand, the effects are really occasional, not continuous. Even when he is causing dozens of coincidences in a particular place, many more events pass off quite normally. For another thing, no one is born ta’veren. Rand, Mat, and Perrin only became ta’veren just before Moiraine appeared. You become ta’veren according to the needs of the Wheel. Like the Heroes linked to the Wheel, who are spun out as needed to try to keep the weaving of the Pattern straight, a man or woman becomes ta’veren because the Wheel has “decided” to use them as an influence on the Pattern. And, no, the Wheel isn’t sentient. Think more of a fuzzy logic device that uses feedback to correct what it is doing in order to do it in the most efficient way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

then how do you explain all the stuff that's set up for them? All of the stuff that had to have been set into motion years in advance to get them where they are now. People who happen to own things and set out in odd directions and gave certain maps to others that eventually end up with perrin. That is not feedback or reacting to something that happened. That's actively taking steps to reach a desired outcome down the line. The PAttern made it so that Rand could take over the Aiel via prophecies (even predicting that the news would break them) and did something similar with the Sea Folk. Why not the Seanchan too?

 

So it made those seanchan prophecies and just ignored the part where Ishamael corrupted them? It couldn't see the effects in advance? I say nay. Because the Pattern started churning out powerful channelers in preparation for the release of the Forsaken. So it can plan ahead and predict things like that. Whatever calculations it was running should've also seen the damage the Seanchan would cause in it's current state if they returned on the horizon of the Last Battle. It's meant to be a powerful learning computer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i don't work here or anything, but this pattern/taveeren debate of yours seems to past "simple" question/answer.  you might find better answers starting your own thread about it?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...