Prologue, Chap. 1-50, Epilogue

[Bob T Dwarf]

RAFO :)))

 

 

Jordan would be very proud of you, Isabel.

[lilltempest]

RAFO :)))

 

Not gonna happen unless I can find some reason to read this bloody Rand-bashing, Egwene-worshiping book. I'll just find out from someone who will actually share spoilers, I suppose.

[Isabel]

Hehe, i will try not to post to many spoilers. However, I need to write up some theories :)

[drunkengrizzly]

forgot my password and didn't get a new one for a few years.  but within the last two books, i seem to recall a moridin pov where he claims ownership of the seanchan prophecy.  the only real tie-in here is the whole speculation on rand bending knee to tuon.  we see that part of the prophecy in her pov, and i'm pretty sure its all a farse, so him not bowing to her shouldn't have any effect on the last battle.  all the while her expecting it is the having just the adverse effects that were intended. sorry i can't provide quotes, couldn't get through CoT again on my most recent reread. :o

[sdboka]

a curtsy could be considered bending a knee. you are taking it too literally man. what are you imagining anywa, rand literally kneeling before egwene and tuon? be realistic, rand, the dragon reborn still has some dignity left in him. so dont take "bending a knee" literally.

[Millon]

Can somebody PM me on who the Seanchan charater is that is upposed to save Egwene, how they save her and how crap-house-rat crazy she goes when the Seanchan appear? My hopes of getting the book when it comes out is slim to none. I'm the only person I know who has "kept the faith" with how long this series has gone. Spoilers may be the only story I'll see. :( >:(

[lilltempest]

a curtsy could be considered bending a knee. you are taking it too literally man. what are you imagining anywa, rand literally kneeling before egwene and tuon? be realistic, rand, the dragon reborn still has some dignity left in him. so dont take "bending a knee" literally.

 

Men don't curtsy...unless they decide to don dresses, at least. And yes, bending knee is kneeling. That's what it means. It can mean dropping to one knee, as he did to Siuan when he met her (after Lan taught him how to behave around the Amyrlin as a Warder would) or it can mean dropping to both knees in complete subservience. Either way, it is a subservient action. There is really no other way to take "bending a knee", since it is a self-explanatory action. Kings and queens, when they meet, show signs of respect (a slight decline of the head, perhaps) but they don't drop down to one or both knees to each other (i.e., bend knee).

 

Oh, and I'm not a man. I'm a woman. ;)

[General Cauthon]

Men don't curtsy...unless they decide to don dresses, at least. And yes, bending knee is kneeling. That's what it means. It can mean dropping to one knee, as he did to Siuan when he met her (after Lan taught him how to behave around the Amyrlin as a Warder would) or it can mean dropping to both knees in complete subservience. Either way, it is a subservient action. There is really no other way to take "bending a knee", since it is a self-explanatory action. Kings and queens, when they meet, show signs of respect (a slight decline of the head, perhaps) but they don't drop down to one or both knees to each other (i.e., bend knee).

 

So you suggest that when Mat(or Thom for that matter) bow politely to(insert name), they manage to do that without bending their knee?

[sdboka]

then so be it. i don't see any point arguing with you :) if you dont like the series then fine with me . if you hate rand bending his knee to egwene and/or tuon then so e it. but i assure you rand will NEVER bend his knee to Tuon. NEVER. i am 100000% sure.

 

on the other hand, have i mentioned that the book has a signature of Robert Jordan? hehe it's not as if it's something to be excited about. but yeah, it has RJ's signature. :D

[DemandredFO]

As to this whole bend knee foolishness.  As numerous characters said in the book about Emond's Field that Kings and Queens tend to believe lines on maps; so to would they believe that a bended knee means subserviance.  He will bind the Nime Moons to serve him not the Nine Moons shall bind him.

[DottieGirl]

Hehe, i will try not to post to many spoilers.

 

Ha ha, wish I had an early copy and could exercise such powers.  Alas, beggars can't be choosers, so spoiler junkies like me will have to live with what we receive.

 

Would anyone be willing to PM me about who killed Graendal, and whether or not Mesaana was exposed/killed?  Thanks a ton!

[lilltempest]

So you suggest that when Mat(or Thom for that matter) bow politely to(insert name), they manage to do that without bending their knee?  

 

If Mat, being as badazz as he is, cannot bend at the waist without bending his knees, then he needs to find some Bengay, pronto!  :P  

 

Seriously, you can bow (not a deep, subservient bow, but bow nonetheless) without bending your knees or dropping down to the ground in front of someone. As soon as body parts touch the ground (think of the really deep curtsies Egwene's little lapdog Accepted/Aes Sedai offer to her, where they're all but prostrating themselves before her), it's subservience. So yeah, when the knees bend, it's subservient. A "polite bow" is a slight bend at the waist, not dropping down to the ground.

 

This conversation is amusing me, for some reason, lol.

[sdboka]

me too lol. it's like the conversation started with a heated arguement about egwene and rand and now it's all about curtsies and all hehe

[lilltempest]

As to this whole bend knee foolishness.  As numerous characters said in the book about Emond's Field that Kings and Queens tend to believe lines on maps; so to would they believe that a bended knee means subserviance.  He will bind the Nime Moons to serve him not the Nine Moons shall bind him.

 

Personally, I don't trust the prophecies. Knowing RJ, it could have easily meant that he binds the Nine Moons via Mat's marriage to her and that he ends up subservient to her somehow. RJ loved having men subservient to women too much to allow Rand to go too long without being forced into a subservient role to one woman or another.

 

Even discounting Tuon, and assuming she really will come to serve him, that doesn't rule out him voluntarily becoming subservient to Egwene, which is the problem. As for all this argument about "bending knee" and what it means, here's what wikipedia has on the matter, explaining exactly what it means. It confirms my stance on this whole discussion:

 

<i> Genuflection (or genuflexion), bending at least one knee to the ground, was from early times a gesture of deep respect for a superior. In 328 BC, Alexander the Great introduced into his court etiquette some form of genuflection already in use in Persia. In the Byzantine Empire even senators were required to genuflect to the emperor. In medieval Europe, one demonstrated respect for a king or noble by going down on one knee. The Latin word genuflectio, from which the English word is derived, originally meant kneeling rather than the rapid dropping to one knee and immediately rising that became customary in Western Europe in the Middle Ages. From the custom of genuflecting to kings and other nobles arose the custom by which lay people or clergy of lesser rank genuflect to a prelate and kiss his episcopal ring, as a sign of acceptance of the bishop's apostolic authority as representing Christ in the local church. Genuflecting before the bishop of the diocese to which one belongs  </i>

 

Given the tie-in between the Amyrlin and the Pope (and the royal position of the Empress), I think the bent knee thing - and its meaning - is obvious.

 

 

[lilltempest]

me too lol. it's like the conversation started with a heated arguement about egwene and rand and now it's all about curtsies and all hehe

 

Yeah, lol. To get back onto topic...

 

Regarding Rand learning to laugh and cry by the end of the book, does this mean he's no longer insane? That, at least, could give me a bit of hope. A soft and cuddly Rand who knows he's bonkers will, no doubt, end up under someone's thumb. A sane, but soft and cuddly Rand, would still have a spine and, with any luck, enough of his cuhones left that he won't put up with too much Aes Sedai, or Seanchan, BS.

[bscuga]

Just got my copy.  For those of you who are looking for early releases, google independent bookstores for the city you live in.  Those stores are more likely to sell it before the release date.  Beware, though, you will most certainly have to pay full price ($29.95 plus tax) instead of the discounted prices that the big stores and internet retailers will sell it to you for.  But look at it this way, you get the book a few days early.

 

Since I have barely started chapter 3, I will give a few names of who is in it (not much of a spoiler) - The Aiel, Rhurac, Amys, Aviendha, Bair, among others.  Once I finish reading, I will give more spoilers.

[sdboka]

me too lol. it's like the conversation started with a heated arguement about egwene and rand and now it's all about curtsies and all hehe

 

Yeah, lol. To get back onto topic...

 

Regarding Rand learning to laugh and cry by the end of the book, does this mean he's no longer insane? That, at least, could give me a bit of hope. A soft and cuddly Rand who knows he's bonkers will, no doubt, end up under someone's thumb. A sane, but soft and cuddly Rand, would still have a spine and, with any luck, enough of his cuhones left that he won't put up with too much Aes Sedai, or Seanchan, BS.

 

you just gave the exact description of how rand is at the end of the book :D

[sdboka]

Rand will be human again, soft enough to understand logic when presented and firm enough to fight the shadow.

[sdboka]

This discussion is fun :D to those i've replied to, can you help me? I have a number of stuff (mostly theories) i wanted to read but unfortunately i cant seem to find them. so can you please pm me the links to the discussion thread of the topics ill list below. thanks!

 

1. who is demandred theory

2. who is mesaana theory

3. the new sword rand is bringin (justice)

4. final battle speculations

 

Also, if you still have some things in mind you want to ask about book 12 feel free to pm me. also include your email add just in case i ran out of pm replies :D

I do hope everyone grabs a copy on the 27th :D

[Galahad]

Now that Greandal is dead...

 

Who kills Graendal? And, as long as we're asking, does Egwene kill Mesaana?

 

If you really want to know...Rand. And no, she doesn't. One other Forsaken dies in the book.

[a pale tanned lover]

Got to ask this question, do we find out if LTT is a form of madness, or not?

 

A yes or no will suffice  ;D

[sdboka]

IMHO LTT is real. so no

[a pale tanned lover]

Ive been having that debate on various other thread for quite some time. Just wanted to find out if i can rub it in some peoples faces after i've read the book  :D

[randfandom]

Rand will be human again, soft enough to understand logic when presented and firm enough to fight the shadow.

 

Gotta ask... What about Rand's physical injuries? Double wounds, blindness, missing hand... Will any of those be Healed as well, at least partly?

 

Also will anyone bonded to him die?

 

Just a yes or no answer to each would be enough...

[Galahad]

Got to ask this question, do we find out if LTT is a form of madness, or not?

 

A yes or no will suffice  ;D

 

Yes and no. Most male channelers hear voices in their head eventually as a result of the taint. Likewise, Rand can hear Lews Therin in his head. Except Lews is real.