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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
JenniferL

Prologue, Chap. 1-50, Epilogue

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I thought Mr. Ares was infallible.

 

Handsome and witty, too.  So charming women ( and susceptible men ) won't leave him alone.  A true legend in his own mind. 

 

Don't we all feel honored and unworthy by his presence?

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Therefore I'm clearly in need of some re-focusing. An intervention may be in order.

 

No, wait. Damn! THE GATHERING STORM IS... IS... I THINK... RAND...

 

 

Codswallop! >:(

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Or, in the immortal words of Uno -

 

"All I'm bloody saying," he heard Uno tell Ragan as they dismounted, "is that I bloody saw her, burn you.  Just before we found the goat-kissing Halfman.  The same flaming woman as at the flaming ferry.  She was there, and then she bloody wasn't.  You say what you bloody want to, but you watch how you flaming say it, or I'll bloody skin you myself and burn the goat-kissing hide, you sheep gutted milk drinker."

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Okay... definitely an amazing WOT book.

 

Now, on to my thoughts. Mat was jarring, Talmanes was too cheery, not enough of Nerim and Lopin. :P Other than that, pure brilliance.

 

I think Rand's touching of the TP was due to his link with Moridin, and NOT because the DO decided to let him use it. I can understand the if the DO intended to corrupt Rand and maybe even posibly bring him to the dark side by giving him a taste of the TP, but the timing was meaningless. Semirhage has the Domination Band on him, and they could have done in another two minuted what she says i.e travel to Shayol Ghul and have Rand swear to the DO. So why bother tempting him when you're that close to forcing him anyway?

 

Coming to the point of the last battle, I think Rand needs to seal the DO's prison using the TP. Lews Therin's words in "The Last That Could Be Done" seem to suggest that. "We used saidin. Something had to touch him but he was able to taint it." So I think if Rand uses the TP, he can seal the DO away for good while not actually killing him, and ending thecycle of Tarmon Gai'dons while not really ending the touch of the DO on the pattern. A very satisfying ending in my view atleast.

 

 

 

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I've seen several people mentioning the TP being used against the DO. Problem is, there's this RJ quote that says that the TP used near Shayol Ghul would "fry you instantly". Saidin/saidar used there would probably result in taint anew. On both saidin and saidar. A completely different approach is needed.

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Budapest Q&A

Q:  Why saidin, why not saidar, was tainted?

RJ:  Because there were only men in the party that made up the party that made up the Strike at Shayol Ghul, that were setting the seals.  In the act of setting the seals, there was a backblast that affected the people doing this.  As I pointed out in something…I wrote a piece called The Strike at Shayol Ghul…there was a great division at the time – I don’t know if all of you have read it…or have none of you read it?

Qs:  Yes, yes.

RJ:  Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go.  And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant” [it was actually the “Fateful Concord” – Terez], which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it.  The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted.  And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint.  But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.

 

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 9 October 1996, Dunwoody, GA - Erica Sadun reporting:

Q:  New Dreadlords? Via True Power? What are limits of True Power? When did we see it used before?

 

RJ:  Access to the True Power is a matter of wanting it and the Dark One letting you. NOT black cords. In Prologue to The Eye of the World, we saw Ishamael use the True Power to Heal insanity. The One Power can not be used to Heal insanity. True Power used at Shayol Ghul will fry you instantly.

Both quotes are copied from Theoryland.

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;D Everybody knew she was for the Light, so that doesn't count.  ;D
That's not true.

 

;D It was possible to deduce that she wasn't bound against lying.
It was also possible to just randomly guess it based on a definition that you've just made up. You guessed right, you didn't deduce it.

 

;D It wasn't possible to deduce that she was in fact Black Ajah, so that doesn't count.  ;D
But people did see her as BA. Just no-one put Verin=BA and Verin=for the Light together, they either said one or the other. Thorn had Verin=ex-BA & for the Light, which was closest. I'd say the socre is about nil-nil.

 

Go me. Arn't I awesome? Don't you all just want to fall around me fawning with awe?
Not particularly. But I might get around to fawning later, when I have a comfy chair to sit in. And you bring me a beer.
What type of beer do you want?

 

 

Wait...

 

 

Something just went terribly wrong.

I'll say. This beer is warm. Oh, and this is how one fawns in my culture - we get colonial types to wait on us hand and foot. (With the collapse of Empire, this has largely fallen out of fashion with younger generations.)

 

I thought Mr. Ares was infallible.
He is. Brandon Sanderson got it wrong. Guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Robert Jordan? What does he know.

 

I think Rand's touching of the TP was due to his link with Moridin, and NOT because the DO decided to let him use it.
Personally, I'm undecided on the issue. Whether it was intentional to give him the TP then and there, or if it was something to do with the link, but I think either way it works in favour of the Shadow during the book. Of course, if it was due to the link, because Shai'tan can't tell Rand and Moridin apart, for instance, that could end up working in the Light's favour later.

 

Coming to the point of the last battle, I think Rand needs to seal the DO's prison using the TP.
I think that requires it be the link for it to work - Shai'tan doesn't know it's Rand acting until it's too late. However, I don't find this a hugely convincing theory at present. I think the answer might come from not using the Power (One or True) at all. I think LTT's "We used saidin" works in favour of this interpretation as well. Both ta'veren and the Song have been put forward in the past as non-Power ways of sealing the Bore. One problem with using TP to close the Bore is that TP is by its very nature dangerous.

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Coming to the point of the last battle, I think Rand needs to seal the DO's prison using the TP. Lews Therin's words in "The Last That Could Be Done" seem to suggest that. "We used saidin. Something had to touch him but he was able to taint it." So I think if Rand uses the TP, he can seal the DO away for good while not actually killing him, and ending thecycle of Tarmon Gai'dons while not really ending the touch of the DO on the pattern. A very satisfying ending in my view atleast.

 

I don't think it would be possible to use the TP to seal the bore.  The TP is drawn through the DO and, litterally through the bore.  One would need to draw the TP out of the bore to turn around and seal the bore, all the while the TP they were drawing would be holding the bore open.  It would be like trying to patch a hole in a water balloon with the water that was leaking out in the first place.  Even if we had not been told that the use of the TP at SG would incinerate the user, as the DO is the sole distributer of TP, I cant' see him letting it be used to seal himself away.

 

LTT is right though, something does need to touch the DO.  It has been suggested that that something might just be Fain. 

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LTT is right though, something does need to touch the DO.  It has been suggested that that something might just be Fain. 

 

While I'm not entirely against the idea - there is a certain poetic justice to it - I just have trouble seeing Fain as the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dike.

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LTT is right though, something does need to touch the DO.  It has been suggested that that something might just be Fain. 

 

While I'm not entirely against the idea - there is a certain poetic justice to it - I just have trouble seeing Fain as the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dike.

 

Don't remember who said it, but someone thought that Fain might play a gollum-like role.  Maybe this will be it?

 

-Aerion

 

/back to lurker's hole

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He is. Brandon Sanderson got it wrong. Guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Robert Jordan? What does he know.

 

Phew.  I thought I was gonna have to adjust my world-view for a second there.

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I was just scanning the glossary and came upon the term "Momument's Past". I don't believe I've seen this term before, and the description is equally vague. Has it actually shown up in the books?

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I was just scanning the glossary and came upon the term "Momument's Past". I don't believe I've seen this term before, and the description is equally vague. Has it actually shown up in the books?

 

Does anyone know what this is? I was racking my brain, but I can't remember a mention of it at all.

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I was just scanning the glossary and came upon the term "Momument's Past". I don't believe I've seen this term before, and the description is equally vague. Has it actually shown up in the books?

 

Does anyone know what this is? I was racking my brain, but I can't remember a mention of it at all.

 

i thought i read the while glossary in my spare time, and i still never have seen it

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i have a question...when it is revealed that morgase is who she is...is there a direct mention or is it only when tam tells rand about it towards the end???

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I think that requires it be the link for it to work - Shai'tan doesn't know it's Rand acting until it's too late. However, I don't find this a hugely convincing theory at present. I think the answer might come from not using the Power (One or True) at all. I think LTT's "We used saidin" works in favour of this interpretation as well. Both ta'veren and the Song have been put forward in the past as non-Power ways of sealing the Bore. One problem with using TP to close the Bore is that TP is by its very nature dangerous.

 

I guess the question would be whether or not the OP/TP are present every single time the DO is loose.

 

I mean, we know there are ages and turnings of the wheel where people go without using the OP, so if the DO could ever get free in those ages then he would be able to be sealed again without the OP. Also, considering there are other powers at work in the world (think Mordeth, Perrin, etc.), there is a distinct possibility that there are many different tools that could have been used in past turnings.

 

 

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I didn't see a great place to post this, so I'll just post it here.

 

I just finished the book, and I have to say it is probably the most powerful Wheel of Time book I've ever read.  Rand has always been my favorite character, and when I got to "because each time we live, we get to love again," that's where I lost it.  Just a fabulous, fabulous book, and a fabulous place to stop.

 

I almost lost it when Tam showed up in Rand's room, and then I realized who Cadsuane had in mind to help in her plan.  And then I realized her plan didn't work the way she expected, but it did work.  He did laugh again!  I was very relieved at what happened to him after he destroyed the sa'angreal.

 

Now I wonder about what this portends for the future.  What does the destruction of the Choedan Kal mean?  And suddenly I remembered the giant Globe thingy from the earlier book, I don't remember which one, and I wondered what THAT meant?  Did Rand somehow affect the Seanchan ability to channel?  Because wasn't the giant globe thingy over in Seanchan?

 

I was very happy to see that the prophecy:  "There he shall see again, and weep for what has been wrought," did not mean vast destruction.  Perhaps it meant weeping for joy?  My interpretation was that Rand was obviously "the blind man," because he "opened his eyes for the first time in a very long time."  Also, that standing "upon his own grave" had more to do with Lews Therin, and I wondered if perhaps this was the death of Lews Therin that Rand promised? 

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I didn't see a great place to post this, so I'll just post it here.

 

I just finished the book, and I have to say it is probably the most powerful Wheel of Time book I've ever read.  Rand has always been my favorite character, and when I got to "because each time we live, we get to love again," that's where I lost it.  Just a fabulous, fabulous book, and a fabulous place to stop.

 

I almost lost it when Tam showed up in Rand's room, and then I realized who Cadsuane had in mind to help in her plan.  And then I realized her plan didn't work the way she expected, but it did work.  He did laugh again!  I was very relieved at what happened to him after he destroyed the sa'angreal.

 

Now I wonder about what this portends for the future.  What does the destruction of the Choedan Kal mean?  And suddenly I remembered the giant Globe thingy from the earlier book, I don't remember which one, and I wondered what THAT meant?  Did Rand somehow affect the Seanchan ability to channel?  Because wasn't the giant globe thingy over in Seanchan?

 

I was very happy to see that the prophecy:  "There he shall see again, and weep for what has been wrought," did not mean vast destruction.  Perhaps it meant weeping for joy?  My interpretation was that Rand was obviously "the blind man," because he "opened his eyes for the first time in a very long time."  Also, that standing "upon his own grave" had more to do with Lews Therin, and I wondered if perhaps this was the death of Lews Therin that Rand promised? 

 

 

The giant statue for the woman ter' angreal was on tremalking.  The statue for the man was in Randland.  If you will remember right after they find Selene and leave the "other" world, they come upon men digging away at a statue and rand's horse almost falls in the hole.  I believe that is correct.

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I was just scanning the glossary and came upon the term "Momument's Past". I don't believe I've seen this term before, and the description is equally vague. Has it actually shown up in the books?

 

maybe the one that got destroyed in the war of 100 years, that was made for artur hawking in TGH

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I didn't see a great place to post this, so I'll just post it here.

 

I just finished the book, and I have to say it is probably the most powerful Wheel of Time book I've ever read.  Rand has always been my favorite character, and when I got to "because each time we live, we get to love again," that's where I lost it.  Just a fabulous, fabulous book, and a fabulous place to stop.

 

I almost lost it when Tam showed up in Rand's room, and then I realized who Cadsuane had in mind to help in her plan.  And then I realized her plan didn't work the way she expected, but it did work.  He did laugh again!  I was very relieved at what happened to him after he destroyed the sa'angreal.

 

Now I wonder about what this portends for the future.  What does the destruction of the Choedan Kal mean?  And suddenly I remembered the giant Globe thingy from the earlier book, I don't remember which one, and I wondered what THAT meant?  Did Rand somehow affect the Seanchan ability to channel?  Because wasn't the giant globe thingy over in Seanchan?

 

I was very happy to see that the prophecy:  "There he shall see again, and weep for what has been wrought," did not mean vast destruction.  Perhaps it meant weeping for joy?  My interpretation was that Rand was obviously "the blind man," because he "opened his eyes for the first time in a very long time."  Also, that standing "upon his own grave" had more to do with Lews Therin, and I wondered if perhaps this was the death of Lews Therin that Rand promised? 

 

 

 

i agree so much with you.... totally fabulous. totally.

 

and i was wondering the same thing, the destruction of the male CK cuz remember the melting hand caused the mass suicide across the sea folk

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and i was wondering the same thing, the destruction of the male CK cuz remember the melting hand caused the mass suicide across the sea folk

 

Just to be clear - not the seafolk, but the landbound island folk that the seafolk revere, protect and serve as they are able.

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Like Indianajim above, I didn't see a great topic either for those of us who are a bit slower readers than others. ;)

 

I finished the book last night and had been skepitcal it could be pulled off, especially after the announcement that Memory was to become three books and what not.

 

Though my memory is foggy on former books which I haven't read in more than a decade, I can say that The Gathering Storm is easily my favorite book since Lord of Chaos, and perhaps overall.

 

I remained skeptic up until Semirhage snapped the adam on Rand. That, I think, was the event that hooked me. And the ending, well the ending was marvelous and appropriate.

 

Like others, however, I agree Mat's character needs some work. It felt like he was more of a fool or something. I can't exactly say what it was, but while I felt the others were spot-on, Mat wasn't. Hope Sanderson has heard fans concern about that and figures out whatever needs to be done to keep Mat as Mat. He and Ituralde are my favorite characters.

 

Looking forward to the books again. First time in years that I can say that.

 

Merry Christmas.

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