Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[tneva82]

Midnight means literally, "the middle of the night." It is when one day ends and the next begins. So with that in mind we can deduce that it will be a shadow heavy book "the middle of the night(DARK)". So if we think about it in that light, perhaps we can uncover hidden meaning the the title.

 

perhaps but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

 

book 1 is called the eye of the world because TEOTW had a rather definite meaning to the story line the great hunt also, theres never really been any ambiguity from book title to content at least not that ive noticed ...

 

But this one literally applied would mean that the book has something to do with Seanchan continent. Would be pretty odd to name book from something that will be AT MOST mentioned by seanchans. Heroes won't go there so why name book to them?

 

Maybe BS goofballed this one. Wanted poetic name to describe ToG and BT and picked this one without realising name is already reserved.

[elec1cele]

I think Gawyn might be able to channel and that is at least in part why his prowess with a blade seem so much above everyone else.  I wish I had more of the series handy to go digging.  A line I found that might support it is from page 214

 

Things seemed so simple when he was saparring.  The world contracted down-Compressed like berries squeezed for their juice-into something smaller and easier to see from up close

 

Maybe it is just the void he is describing I don't know it was just an idea I had and thought I would share.

[coteaz]

But this one literally applied would mean that the book has something to do with Seanchan continent. Would be pretty odd to name book from something that will be AT MOST mentioned by seanchans. Heroes won't go there so why name book to them?

Maybe BS goofballed this one. Wanted poetic name to describe ToG and BT and picked this one without realising name is already reserved.

 

He deliberately omitted the 'THE' in 'The Towers of Midnight' for a reason, so we would not draw a parallel with the ones in seanchan, although i must be honest, that was my first thought aswell.

[deepak_dragonreborn]

^^

 

Yup ur right..It has more than one meaning..Prob ToG and Black Tower.

[Mr Ares]

Now all die-hard fans should have at least looked at/read through/or own a copy of "The World of Robert Jordan's : The Wheel of Time" by Robert Jordan (of course) and Teresa Patterson.

So your theory relates to a work that the vast majority of WoT readers will not have read? Interesting.

The Towers of Midnight are going to be where Rand and Fortuona make their pact

No. Not unless it happens off screen. Unlikely, wouldn't you say?

 

** Side note - Could someone tell me what happened to Elayne's captain guy?

Daved Hanlon was imprisoned on account of being a Darkfriend.

 

I'm curious to find out how and why Rand kneels to the Crystal Throne.

He will bind the Nine Moons to serve him. The Seanchan Prophecies were corrupted.

 

Like the Baby Boom which happened as a result of the war ending

Good times.

 

the Muridians could never really be called an army

They can now, they've been unified (also, who doesn't like like the idea that the Band unwittingly helped Demandred secure his rule?).

 

so i theorize that the leader of the "i wish i was better than Lews therin" Club has united the fragmented seanchan army back in seandar

Which we just heard was in chaos and fighting itself in a multi-sided civil war. Doubtful he could move so quickly. And meddling in Semi's affairs. Not likely.

 

Yeah thats possible, but i still maintain IMHO that demandred has his fingers in many pies lol

And he's ruling one of those pies.

 

Regardless of what RJ said about the main storyline never going back to Seanchan it is irrelevant.

It's very relevant, if you expect big things to happen in a place the story isn't going to visit.

 

He could have very well had Rand going to Seanchan

No, he couldn't. He said it wasn't going to happen.

 

RJ would not have left 3 very direct references to the Towers of Midnight

In a book most of his readers haven't read. Find a reference in the main series or you don't have a theory. Even then, you wouldn't.

 

if he was not at least going to touch there again.

I hardly think you're an expert on RJ's writing practices.

 

He named the book after those specific towers.

Nothing to support that.

 

I thought I heard somewhere in the earlier books that it was the only one.

The Seanchan made more. We saw them in KoD.

[Bob T Dwarf]

He named the book after those specific towers.

 

Last I'd read Towers of Midnight was still just a working title and nothing had been finalized yet.

[Lambada]

He named the book after those specific towers.

 

Last I'd read Towers of Midnight was still just a working title and nothing had been finalized yet.

Shifting Winds was the working title.

ToM has been given the go-ahead from all relevant parties (or so I believe)

[lillcheese]

I had a crazy thought last night while on my second read. Mat and Thom were talking about the ToG attack and how Olver was going to try and go as well.  Maybe wait outside for them, charge to their rescue if they took too long.

 

Thom mentions during this conversation his old age, it seems a bit wistful to me.  Probably for the obvious reason that even if they save Moraine, he'll probably die of old age before they can have much of a life together.

 

And then I thought about the Moridin/Rand body swap theories, and how RJ said Olver was important for something.

 

What if somehow Thom bargains for youth and the Finns decide to take it from Olver? Or maybe Moraine asks for it for Thom. 

 

I know, crazy crazy thought. 

[srudnick]

Aviendha will go through the Columns and see Ileana.  I suspect that she or all of Rand's lovers are decendant from or reincarnated from Ileana.  The likehood of her reincarnation is blatently suggested in the last chapter of tGS. 

I also feel that Demandred is in Sharra or some other area with little plotline interaction.  RJ had stated at one point that we had not met his alter ego.  Though it is possible that he manipulated the Borderlanders, I do not feel he is with them.  He is somewhere that he can martial an army in piece.  Nothing would cause caos like an army of people completely foriegn to the story.  People with the potential to have a large number of both male and female channelers, as they breed and hold captive the males before they die.

 

[Aeos]

Mr. Ares, you can pick apart my theory all you wish. So, RJ said the main story wouldn't go back to the continent. I can believe that, but I still believe BS didn't name the next book "Towers of Midnight" to reference all the towers that are having problems and/or touched by darkness.

 

You might argue that most people haven't read RJ's info book on WoT, but I would argue agaisnt that, unless of course you are just a casual reader. But then again, most casual readers wouldn't bother going online, joining a forum, and speculating about what is to come.

 

For those arguing that BS purposefully left out the "The" in the title "Towers of Midnight" making the point that the title wasn't a reference for the Towers of Midnight in Seanchan then I beg to differ. English language does not need The to make a name of a place. Hypothetically speaking, (if I were in/or at the Towers of Midnight), if I asked, "What is the name of this place?", a person would reply with "Towers of Midnight." not, "The Towers of Midnight."

 

For a more specific reason, in the info book on the map I wrote about, the place under the city name wasn't written (The Towers of Midnight) it was just written without the the, proving my point. As for the other two references if the The was part of the name of the place it would have been capitalized there as well.

 

So, lets not argue, and we can get on with having fun speculating each of our ideas. I am excited to see if any of us are right, and I certainly won't be disappointed if I am wrong.

[Muad Cheade]

I do believe Demandred is in Shara. Murandy has an army inferior to those of Rand and the Seanchan, both of whom could attack next. Also, I would think that he would have attempted to destroy the personal army of one of the ta'avern and apparently one of the best generals currently. The Borderlanders are in an artificial stedding so I don't think he'd willingly expose his biggest weakness there.

 

Anyways, regardless of if the title "Towers of Midnight" refers to the Seanchan continent (I doubt it does although it could be referencing the Seanchan as a whole), it would not make sense for Empress For(tuon)a to try to reconquer the entire continent.

 

For one, it would not be possible to conquer that continent before Tarmon Gai'don. Even with the Seanchan knowing traveling. Too many nobles with large forces (Semirhage said atleast 50). Also, the Empress decided not to, and finally and most importantly, RJ decided not to. He was planning for Mat and Tuon to do it together in one of the outriggers.

 

I do think the "new" Rand will find out that the Seanchan prophecies say that he must kneel to the Empress ("the Crystal Throne") and in doing so he will bind her to him.

 

As for Perrin and Mat, Mat will obviously spend some time in the Finns' world

(who know he's coming) and we will learn of Perrin's meeting with the Whitecloaks and hopefully, him learning to cope with his burden of leadership, his inner wolf, and his bloodlust.

 

I'm actually anticipating Elayne's arc. She needs to be coronated, deal with the DarkFriends and Black Ajah, get Andor ready for the Seanchan and Tarmon Gai'don, and maybe take the throne of Cairhien.

[Corvinus]

My opinion on ToM:

 

The book will end with the breaking of all the seals, and thus the hour of midnight, the hour of the DOs release comes.

 

If Demandred is in Murandy, then Verin saved Mat by helping him skip over most of the country. I believe that he will go to ToG after that. But who will be the 3rd person to go with him and Thom. Most of us think is Noal (who IS Jain Farstrider). Could be Olver. Or it could be PERRIN. At the end of TGS it can be assumed that Perrin went to Tear, but it is not completly sure, since we haven't actually seen him there. But what if Perrin decides to go first to Caemlyn, to reunite Morgase with Elayne. There he meets up with Mat, and Mat tells him of ToG. Perrin knows where it is, and knows it is dangerous from Birgitte. So what if Perrin goes with Mat and Thom, but goes through the wolf dream?

 

As for Rand, he may meet up with Egwene, feel her wrath, but then follow her example, and do a purge of the Black Tower. Bye-bye Taim and his 'special' followers.

 

I hope Fain will make an appearance.

The battle (or at least one of them) will be at Tarwin's Gap. An initial assault by Trollocs, not too great, just a way to test the enemy. Lan will be able to repel it, but he knows that the next attack will be much worse.

 

I wonder if we'll see Loial in this one? He has to convince the Ogier to fight at TG.

 

That's all for now.

[ClubCaved]

Corvinus, Perrin can't be part of the rescue party. As it says in Moiraine's letter (Knife Of Dreams, A Village In Shiota): "...It may also be that you and Mat Cauthon and another, a man I do not know, will try to rescue me."

 

To end on a lighter note, I'm hoping that some time in the next two books, Egwene somehow convinces Romanda and Lelaine to become SeaFolk teachers. ;D

[Strykr017]

My opinion on ToM:

 

The book will end with the breaking of all the seals, and thus the hour of midnight, the hour of the DOs release comes.

 

If Demandred is in Murandy, then Verin saved Mat by helping him skip over most of the country. I believe that he will go to ToG after that. But who will be the 3rd person to go with him and Thom. Most of us think is Noal (who IS Jain Farstrider). Could be Olver. Or it could be PERRIN. At the end of TGS it can be assumed that Perrin went to Tear, but it is not completly sure, since we haven't actually seen him there. But what if Perrin decides to go first to Caemlyn, to reunite Morgase with Elayne. There he meets up with Mat, and Mat tells him of ToG. Perrin knows where it is, and knows it is dangerous from Birgitte. So what if Perrin goes with Mat and Thom, but goes through the wolf dream?

 

As for Rand, he may meet up with Egwene, feel her wrath, but then follow her example, and do a purge of the Black Tower. Bye-bye Taim and his 'special' followers.

 

I hope Fain will make an appearance.

The battle (or at least one of them) will be at Tarwin's Gap. An initial assault by Trollocs, not too great, just a way to test the enemy. Lan will be able to repel it, but he knows that the next attack will be much worse.

 

I wonder if we'll see Loial in this one? He has to convince the Ogier to fight at TG.

 

That's all for now.

 

I'd agree with that being the ending. The seals breaking open would lead right into the start of the Last Battle, which should take up most of the final book. Breaking the seals would be a great ending that would lead right into the final novel.

[Stevros]

Perrin & Galad meeting, with all the implications (from Bornhald & Byar denouncing Perrin as a darkfriend and his counter claim of lack of assistance in Emonds field, Morgase being revealed and Berelain falling for one of the Whitecloaks).

 

A PoV from Graendal showing either her death or survival (I'm betting dead).

 

Mat along with Thom and Noal (I can't imagine Olver being allowed to go with them, but I kinda like the idea of him sneaking in on his own), in the Tower of Ghenjei rescuing Moiraine.

 

Moiraine & Mat then meeting up with Rand and sorting out a truce with the Seanchan.

 

And of course my previously stated theory that Mesaana escaping the tower on Bela (who as we all know is the key to the last battle) only to end up near the Tower of Ghenjei while Vanin is twiddling his thumbs waiting for Mat steals Bela and so saves the entire world from destruction.

 

The above is all I'm pretty sure (he says tentativly) about there will of course be other things, I kinda hope we see a Aviendha PoV in the glass column's which give some more insight (possibly into her finding the song???

[Mkelly]

 

The identity of Gaidal Cain.

 

 

i always thought that Gaidal was going to show up when the horn is sounded again and Brigitte would not know who he was, showing he did not survive without her and that her biggest fear has come true, that she forgot him.  kinda a morbid thought, but i always thought that reading.

 

I dont know if this has been mentioned already, but who else can Gaidal Cain be but Olver, the little uglu boy with the Band of the Red Hand. It makes perfect sense. The band is teaching him to use all sorts of weapons, Birgitte states how she only falls for ugly men, and he is young enough that the time displacement between Tel'Aran'Rhiod can fix up any discrepencies there. Not to mention the fact that Birgitte finds him to be cute and adorable just like all the other women. I mean seriously, who else can Gaidal Cain be?

[coteaz]

Has RJ not said that Olver isn't Gaidal cain.?

[Traveller]

Gosh. Its been at least 8 years since I've posted on DM, I had to create a new account.

 

So, I was sitting at the office today and reflecting on the book and the idea that Rand is fighting for love, Lews Therin was never another man's soul but Rand's madness (duh)and his memories, and the three women that Rand loves.

 

COULD it be possible that the prophecy of "3 becoming one" refers to the three women that Rand loves and Ilyanna (my love, where are you?)being of the same soul. Maybe Min, Avi and Elayne are all aspects of Ilyanna; warrior, queen and scholar.

 

Now, my books are WAY over in my room and I am being lazy on the couch so I can't check the wording of the prophecy, but I just thought that I would post it.

 

[Mkelly]

Sry, i missed the parts about olver not being gaidal cain, my bad.

 

One thing i am curious about, will Moirane bond Thom?

 

Another thing, at least 150 members of the Black Ajah still out there, how can any1 deal with that many channelers by themselves? And how will people like Rand know the difference until its too late.

 

Also i really hope that we see how men and women are supposed to link properly, it will be interesting too see how much power a full powered circle of channelers can bring to bear.

[nianp]

 

As to the Avihenda in the columns thing, and why it would be important...

 

The Gathering Storm has some foreshadowing in it that I've not yet seen mentioned in any of the thread.

 

The Tinkers.

 

Egwene searched in the World of Dreams using need. She remarked again on how dangerous it was and... *poof*

 

A TINKER Caravan? WTF?

 

I also recall Rand thinking about the Tinkers, remarking how they might be changing because of the stability in Seanchan-controlled lands. For the first time, they were getting protection from the rulers of an area and finding themselves respected for doing odd jobs.

 

We haven't seen the Tinkers as a group play any serious part and then TWO references, one tied to a search-via-need in TAR?

 

Not. A. Coincidence.

 

Avihenda might just find "The Song" by viewing her ancestors in the columns.

 

Damn you to hell. I was reading through these and suddenly realised why Aviendha's trip through the columns would be important. And then I get to your comment and find you stole the thunder. The Song!

A couple of Tinker references and Avi about to get an eyefull of the Age of Legends. If neither the Tinkers or Ogier have managed to find the song over the last 3000 years, then it's probably a safe bet that Avi's going to find it. It would be interesting, as she's have to get over the Aiel aversion to the Tuatha'an.

 

[nianp]

What I want to see is Moiraine come back, be reunited with Rand and then go and absolutely bit**slap Cadsuane. That old woman is really bugging me. I thought for a second that Tam might bring her down to size properly but no dice. I think Moiraine is the one who can set the old bat in her place.

[Tel Janin]

What I want to see is Moiraine come back, be reunited with Rand and then go and absolutely bit**slap Cadsuane. That old woman is really bugging me. I thought for a second that Tam might bring her down to size properly but no dice. I think Moiraine is the one who can set the old bat in her place.

 

It was toward the end of the book, when Min basically verbally gave them all the smackdown line.  I don't remember the exact words, but the impetus was, "when are you all going to stop trying to MAKE him do what you think is right?"  Moiraine pegged it exactly when she remembered that you had to surrender sometimes to gain control...these other Aes Sedai need to remember that as well...

[Kadere]

Lots of stuff I want to see. 1) Mat saving Moiraine, obvious. 2) I want to know what is going on at the Black Tower! What happened to the Aes Sedai who went there? I want to see it rent with blood, and Logain and Mazrim Taim going head to head! 3) Perrin to understand his wolf powers (FINALLY!) 4) I want to see Lan reach Tarwin's Gap 5) Where the heck is Demandred?! 6) Who the HECK is Mesaana?! 7) Elayne questioning the Darkfriends 8) What does the "red hot iron" and "axe" have to do with Elayne? 9) What is Mat doing for so long in Caemlyn? 10) I want Verin's letter to explain Mat's luck

 

And I think the book should end with all the seals broken, everyone meeting up at Tar Valon, and the last scene will be Lan sitting by a fire in Tarwin's Gap, the gathering army that's been chasing him across the Boarderlands rides up, Weilin Aldragoran asks who he is, Lan says "I am your king." And then a horn is heard, everyone looks up, and Trollocs by the millions come pouring out of the Blight.  ;D

 

edit: One more thing, I want to see how the Great Stump is going with Loial.

[Auld Manriva]

There is no need for Avienda to find the song. RAND has already Heard the song, hell he's sung it during HIS look thru the eyes of his predecessor. When he thinks of it he'll remember it, because of his ability to hear something and repeat it, i.e. his ability with the flute.... Jeeez

[karehiro]

There is no need for Avienda to find the song. RAND has already Heard the song, hell he's sung it during HIS look thru the eyes of his predecessor. When he thinks of it he'll remember it, because of his ability to hear something and repeat it, i.e. his ability with the flute.... Jeeez

 

Agreed.  And it's already prophecied that Rand will be the one to bring the song to the land so that green things may grow again as he is Lord of the Morning, so I doubt Aviendha will bring much relevance.