Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[jemron]

You know, for a pony, that Bela always manages to pull through. I mean, she's been in the books longer than at least half of the "main characters" Elayne, Avi, Min,

 

 

Whoa. Wait. What if Bela is Ilyena? WoT meets Equus. Epic.

 

Just to be clear, Elayne and Min have been around just as long as Bela.  They were both in book one.  Still, Bela is supreme, obviously.

[charis sedai]

You know, for a pony, that Bela always manages to pull through. I mean, she's been in the books longer than at least half of the "main characters" Elayne, Avi, Min,

 

 

Whoa. Wait. What if Bela is Ilyena? WoT meets Equus. Epic.

 

Just to be clear, Elayne and Min have been around just as long as Bela.  They were both in book one.  Still, Bela is supreme, obviously.

 

 

Well, yes, same book. But didn't Bela come out of the Two Rivers with the Emond's Field gang?

[ed2funy]

exactly.

she is no city horse. or war horse.

 

she is a plump mare...the disguise of the Creator.

It won't happen until AMoL though.

[Declan]

i will eat every page of AMoL if Bela is the Creator.

 

I dont see how the Creator could let Egwene's pompous self ride on "it's" back. I seem to remember Moiraine talking about how Aes Sedai are not invincible and can even fall off their horse and break their neck.... hmmmmm....

[ed2funy]

And you wonder why she hasn't fallen off?

Not even Siuan?

 

Because Bela knows how important they are, and being the Creator, she must protect them.

 

P.S. Egwene is awesome!

[Little Miss]

Yeah Bela's the creator :D She's always in the right spot at the right time it seems like... and remember when Moiraine mentioned after the horrible flight from Emond's Field that Bela was the only one who didn't need to be refreshed? and was more than capable of keepping up with the other horses? Well I don't think it was Rand! Bela could totally manage that since she is the Creator and all <3

[ed2funy]

lol..dammit...

I was gonna put that!  :'(

 

Exactly..Moiraine couldn't sense it, because there was nothing there, Bela just used her Universe creating powers to give herself more speed.

Rand's channeling never even touched her, because she wouldn't want the taint touching her.

She couldn't just temporarily get rid of the taint, because that would be interfering.

 

The evidence is all there...

I feel a new Paint project coming soon...

[Mr Ares]

I propose that all those who persist in making tedious and unfunny jokes about that horse be warned, and if they still continue, banned.Now, I am a fair and democratic dictator, I believe in the principle of one man, one vote. I'm the man, mine is the vote. All in favour, say aye: aye. All opposed? Motion carried. Mods, make it happen.

[Declan]

oh Mr. Ares. of all the worthless posts at least they were talking about the books while you were over there declaring yourself ruler. im messing with you.

 

Is it just me that thinks that Mat will not lose his eye in the interaction with the Finns? If it does happen during that than those chapters will be crazy intense.

[Muad Cheade]

I propose that all those who persist in making tedious and unfunny jokes about that horse be warned, and if they still continue, banned.Now, I am a fair and democratic dictator, I believe in the principle of one man, one vote. I'm the man, mine is the vote. All in favour, say aye: aye. All opposed? Motion carried. Mods, make it happen.

That is too light of a sentence, fearless leader. I was thinking more long the lines of life imprisonment.

 

Is it just me that thinks that Mat will not lose his eye in the interaction with the Finns? If it does happen during that than those chapters will be crazy intense.

Yeah. Part of me thinks that RJ wouldn't have made it so obvious, but then again, Mat is essentially a characterization of Odin (chief god of Norse mythology and the god of battles). Odin gave up one of his eyes to drink of Mimir's Well of knowledge. RJ has already made the connection between the two when Mat jokes to the serving maid, Betse, in LoC that he was hung for knowledge, same as Odin. RAFO, I suppose.

[mossman87]

I hate to be the dork in this circle jerk, but technically Bela is the Creator, at least everything has parts of the Creator in them.

 

Anyway done being a dork.  ;D

[clu7ch]

i'd hate to be the guy who has a certain 'part' of the creator in them.....

 

 

*GODLY VOICE* ya dropped yer soap there.

[charis sedai]

LOL. HAHAHA!

 

 

[b9anders]

I must admit, I find it rather offensive with all this talk about Bela being the Creator, even if it is tongue-in-cheek.

 

She is as vile a darkfriend as has been seen since the war of power and deserves no comparisons with anything to do with the light.

[Crael123]

Bela is not the creator. lets just get our tears out of our system and move on ;D ;D

[jemron]

I must admit, I find it rather offensive with all this talk about Bela being the Creator, even if it is tongue-in-cheek.

 

She is as vile a darkfriend as has been seen since the war of power and deserves no comparisons with anything to do with the light.

 

Let's not forget that at the last book release and signings, TOR published a bumper sticker that says, "Bela is a Darkfriend."  There cannot be anything more definitive than the published "word."  So, I'm sorry, you're right.  It is blasphemy to say "Bela is the Creator."

[THE IMMORTAL]

Sorry, I’m new to these to these boards, so I just wanted to put a few things down.

So saying that I got to say that veins of gold has to be the best chapter of the whole entire book, simply being that it sounded like something that Robert Jordan himself would have wrote, the greatness of the soul that is the dragon came out in leaps and bounds, one can easily see  in that moment the great man lews therin “ASIDE FROM HIS KNOWLEDGE AND ACOMPLISHMENTS” was and why he was called the great leader.

I have read a lot about how this and that was great in the book, but to one who read the books and knows everthing by heart, the gathering storm was full of holes, first thing sanderson does not understand the one power, he is doing mundane things with the powers, rand saying that he is drawing a little extra so that the senchan damane can’t cut him off, the senchan can’t link and he is the strongest channeler and it would take a forsaken or a full circle to cut him off, cydane say that with the choedan cal that the power coming through the female half  is enough to melt continents, cadsuene says that nynaeve is drawing more power that every sister, with every sa angrael and angrael can chanel, and we know that nynaeve is no where near as strong as rand, the seanch damena shields were supposed to rebound, he was not supposed to be resilient, think back to verin and Alana trying to cut him off. But thinks he might have problems with a hundred damane, pls  they would be like flies.

Sanderson second mistake, rand has lews therins knowledge, the same man that created death gates, arrows of fire, blossoms of fire, remember only ishmahael equaled lews therin in the one power, and know one equaled  lews therin in knowledge of the power , he was the greatest person of his age because of his accomplishments, in an age of great men and great accomplishments, but that seems to have been forgotten, all rand can do now is rain fire or lightening to strike and bite, what happened to all that knowledge, rand was supposed to be able to draw now.

Mins betrayal and it is betrayal, giving all her viewings to cadsuene to better manipulate, did she not say her viewings were for rand only, so much for her love!!!!

Nynaeve telling rand how to plan a war, great gods these aes sedai  know everything and yet nothing. When did nynaeve learn war but still talk crap, rand plans made sense although cruel.

Rand killing grandal brilliant, but nynaeve and min being uppity about it, samirage  the greatest healer of the age of legends says that compulsion cannot be healed.

There was so many things wrong that I can go on and on, that frightened me as to what sanderson will write in the next book, maybe everybody should have honoured Robert jordans memory and left the book unfinished, because I see that now rand will be nothing but a puppet to cadsuene , toun and the rest of the women of randland, sad that Robert Jordan did not live to finish the book himself, I think he would have written rand as the great lews therin.

I’ve got a feeling that as of veins of gold, that rand should have atleast all of lews therins knowledge,memories and skils, if not all his previous lives as that chapter indicated, but come towers of midnight I got a feeling that sanderson will chicken out and rand will just be plain old rand all that knowledge will disappear, what a disappoint that will be!!!!

And the aes sedai are just as stupid as ever, I’m really starting to loathe egwene. 

 

Everbody wants the the whole, transference thing, that would be the worst ending ever, rand in moridins body, with a chin like a hammer, that would really suck, avindha having some strangers baby!!!!!

 

[JakeBarnes]

Sorry, I’m new to these to these boards, so I just wanted to put a few things down.

So saying that I got to say that veins of gold has to be the best chapter of the whole entire book, simply being that it sounded like something that Robert Jordan himself would have wrote, the greatness of the soul that is the dragon came out in leaps and bounds, one can easily see  in that moment the great man lews therin “ASIDE FROM HIS KNOWLEDGE AND ACOMPLISHMENTS” was and why he was called the great leader.

I have read a lot about how this and that was great in the book, but to one who read the books and knows everthing by heart, the gathering storm was full of holes, first thing sanderson does not understand the one power, he is doing mundane things with the powers, rand saying that he is drawing a little extra so that the senchan damane can’t cut him off, the senchan can’t link and he is the strongest channeler and it would take a forsaken or a full circle to cut him off, cydane say that with the choedan cal that the power coming through the female half  is enough to melt continents, cadsuene says that nynaeve is drawing more power that every sister, with every sa angrael and angrael can chanel, and we know that nynaeve is no where near as strong as rand, the seanch damena shields were supposed to rebound, he was not supposed to be resilient, think back to verin and Alana trying to cut him off. But thinks he might have problems with a hundred damane, pls  they would be like flies.

Sanderson second mistake, rand has lews therins knowledge, the same man that created death gates, arrows of fire, blossoms of fire, remember only ishmahael equaled lews therin in the one power, and know one equaled  lews therin in knowledge of the power , he was the greatest person of his age because of his accomplishments, in an age of great men and great accomplishments, but that seems to have been forgotten, all rand can do now is rain fire or lightening to strike and bite, what happened to all that knowledge, rand was supposed to be able to draw now.

Mins betrayal and it is betrayal, giving all her viewings to cadsuene to better manipulate, did she not say her viewings were for rand only, so much for her love!!!!

Nynaeve telling rand how to plan a war, great gods these aes sedai  know everything and yet nothing. When did nynaeve learn war but still talk crap, rand plans made sense although cruel.

Rand killing grandal brilliant, but nynaeve and min being uppity about it, samirage  the greatest healer of the age of legends says that compulsion cannot be healed.

There was so many things wrong that I can go on and on, that frightened me as to what sanderson will write in the next book, maybe everybody should have honoured Robert jordans memory and left the book unfinished, because I see that now rand will be nothing but a puppet to cadsuene , toun and the rest of the women of randland, sad that Robert Jordan did not live to finish the book himself, I think he would have written rand as the great lews therin.

I’ve got a feeling that as of veins of gold, that rand should have atleast all of lews therins knowledge,memories and skils, if not all his previous lives as that chapter indicated, but come towers of midnight I got a feeling that sanderson will chicken out and rand will just be plain old rand all that knowledge will disappear, what a disappoint that will be!!!!

And the aes sedai are just as stupid as ever, I’m really starting to loathe egwene. 

 

Everbody wants the the whole, transference thing, that would be the worst ending ever, rand in moridins body, with a chin like a hammer, that would really suck, avindha having some strangers baby!!!!!

 

 

If you feel that way, I suggest you stop reading the series.  You're not being fair to Brandon, to judge him that way.  He isn't RJ, and to expect him to emulate RJ's style or to inherit all of the knowledge of the world is also unfair.  In judging Brandon this harshly, you are also judging Hariet's decision to have him finish the series, and questioning RJ's trust in Hariet to get the job done. 

 

In response:  Do Randland channelers know that the Seanchan can't link?

I don't recall the quote about Nynaeve holding more of the OP than every sister with every angreal could manage.

Min went to Cadsuane after she was convinced that Rand needed some guidance.  If you remember, he was going all dark after the TP incident.

 

 

[THE IMMORTAL]

If you feel that way, I suggest you stop reading the series.  You're not being fair to Brandon, to judge him that way.  He isn't RJ, and to expect him to emulate RJ's style or to inherit all of the knowledge of the world is also unfair.  In judging Brandon this harshly, you are also judging Hariet's decision to have him finish the series, and questioning RJ's trust in Hariet to get the job done. 

 

In response:  Do Randland channelers know that the Seanchan can't link?

I don't recall the quote about Nynaeve holding more of the OP than every sister with every angreal could manage.

Min went to Cadsuane after she was convinced that Rand needed some guidance.  If you remember, he was going all dark after the TP incident.

 

my friend, that is what i will do to honour robert jordans memory and the greatness of this series.

 

I'm not here to fight, but i don't put blinders over my eyes or molly coddle people i tell the truth and the truth hurts.

 

You should learn to read nicely before you give your advise or opinions, "WINTERS HEART with the choedan kal, page 641- south of her, that beacon shone, eneugh saider to waste to a continent in one blow." sanderson forgot to read this he would have rand taking the choedan kal and sneaking around killing small groups of seanchan and running away to strike again.

 

"WINTERS HEART with the choedan kal, page 651 - except that she was acting as conduit for far more of saider than the entire white tower could have handled using every angreal and sa angrael the tower possessed."

 

"CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT surprises, page 468 - the resonance was so strong, we should have been able to smell it. there was more saidin used than saider, much more, dragonmountbeside a foothill." so if the amont of saider used was enough to melt continents,how much powerful is the choedan kal with rands strenght.

 

You don't even know the basics of the books, yet you feel qualified to tell me what to do, so aes sedai like.

 

My friend i read alot of books, lots of different genre's like horror, science fiction, action, adventure etc, from people like stephen king, raymond e feist, fayod dayostivsky,and so one so i know quite abit about novels and i know the wheel of time inside out and this book was not reseached well, and came out badly!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Tigraine]

wow...that is incredible.  How can you truly say that you have love for the Wheel of Time then state that you are gonna quit so close to the end?  I will admit that I was skeptical of Mr. Sanderson when I heard that he would finish the series...however he clearly states that he is not Robert Jordan and he is not going to try to write like him.  I think that the ending we see will be the one RJ intended it to be...the road to get there just slightly different.  I agree 100% with saying that if you don't like Brandon Sanderson then you have no faith in Harriet or in RJ's faith in her.  I have read books by different authors too but I'm not gonna claim to be an expert and put down someone's style of writing just because it's not the original author.  Have some consideration for the original author and his wishes.

[WolfDragonFox]

Well I agree and disagree with both of you.  IMMORTAL has every right to his opinion because he spent the money and bought the book.  The only thing I really can say against your point IMMORTAL and in agreement with JakeBarnes is that I don't think BS did not do his research, I think that the better explanation for some of the holes you see is that he had so much to digest that he most likely went with what was important to work to the ending instead of concentrating on the micro details that we all love from RJ.  

Harriet did trust BS and as we all should know, Brandon is working from a lot of existing material from RJ himself both written and recorded so I doubt as a professional and a fan himself, that he is ignoring any of the vital points that must be shared in order for us to get the most authentic ending to the series as possible.  And remember, Harriet knows how the rest of the story should go so I don't believe she is just letting bad content slip by her.  

I love how you busted those quotes out like that though IMMORTAL, shows you are dedicated and well read on this series and back up what you post.  I don't think you should stop reading the final two books, I say stick it out and see what will happen because BS is always watching for comments and taking them into consideration to improve his writing on the books.  Maybe you should try to email him your concerns.

All in all, it probably would have been best if BS concentrated soley on WoT but that would be unfair to him or anyone who has an established career, and as much as I would have hated waiting, he probably should have studied the books longer, and hit the notes harder until he could almost recited it all by heart, but there are deadlines and expectations and pressure.  I enjoyed the book and went in already knowing that I was getting something different and also knew I was getting what I needed to fulfill the wishes of how RJ wanted to end the series so I was not disappointed and in fact was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked it despite its differences.

 

Hope this helps someone and if not, well its just my take so no harm no foul.

[jemron]

I also agree that everyone has their opinion and is free to share it.

 

Just so you know THE IMMORTAL, Brandon did very very little to change the story that RJ had outlined and dictated.  So any criticisms of "how Brandon handled" the story or character arcs, are direct criticisms of RJs storyline as he outlined it.  Brandon Sanderson's writing style may be different, but the story and exactly what happens to characters and all that are 100% RJ.

[Sentinel78]

I believe the only things Brandon really changed from RJ's outline were the order of certain events needed to be modified, and certain prerequisite scenes were added that lead up to scenes in the outline, but the overall structure is RJ's. 

 

I think Brandon did a really good job with Gathering Storm - even Mat's chapters are salvageable and don't really detract much from the book overall.  For good or bad, Brandon's writing adds focus to the series because Brandon appears less concerned with adding details that are not strictly necessary, and includes less interaction with secondary characters aside from mentioning that they're there. 

 

He got Rand right, he got Egwene right, and he seems to be looking forward to writing a lot of death scenes (he'll probably read A Song of Ice and Fire just to get in the mood to feed a few cities to the Trollocs and kill off some major characters).  So yeah, I'm excited for ToM.

[sdelu]

You should learn to read nicely before you give your advise or opinions, "WINTERS HEART with the choedan kal, page 641- south of her, that beacon shone, eneugh saider to waste to a continent in one blow." sanderson forgot to read this he would have rand taking the choedan kal and sneaking around killing small groups of seanchan and running away to strike again.

 

this is not a "hole." What good would blowing up an entire continent do? Especially HIS continent? He wants them away from his continent and the countries that are supposed to be following him. Blowing up the continent wouldn't really do much to help him. Also, I don't think he would have Rand doing anything of the sort.

 

"WINTERS HEART with the choedan kal, page 651 - except that she was acting as conduit for far more of saider than the entire white tower could have handled using every angreal and sa angrael the tower possessed."

 

"CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT surprises, page 468 - the resonance was so strong, we should have been able to smell it. there was more saidin used than saider, much more, dragonmountbeside a foothill." so if the amont of saider used was enough to melt continents,how much powerful is the choedan kal with rands strenght.

 

I'm not sure what your point is here. First of all, didn't Rand channel ALL of saidin over the hours it took them to cleanse it? I'm pretty sure he did. That was how he got the taint out of all of Saidin. Whereas saidar was only channeled enough to create the "tube." So, it says nothing about the relative strengths of the Choedan Kal. And the quote says there was more USED, not it was so much stronger. So... I don't get it?

 

So your "hole" is that Rand, having the power of the Choedan Kal, should have just destroyed everyone and everything to kill the Seanchan. But instead he went to Ebou Dar to destroy them directly, for the most part attempting to spare the lives of the citizens. He also wanted to see them die, as far as I could tell. I fail to see how this is a "hole" exactly.

 

Actually, I don't really see how any of the things you listed are "holes"...

[Crael123]

Wow.... i didnt ever think of it that way... rand did channel all of saidin if he had to clense it. wow. that makes it even more incredible