WoT Season 2 Episode 8: What Was Meant to Be

[RextheDog]

i loved so much about this season.

 

alot to talk about.

 

not mentioned alot but i think Rands treatment of Turak was better than the books, he even suprised himself.

 

he didnt really earn the right to be equal in the sword fight in the books (i know, he was being bettered), also the books are littered with moments where he just blows people away with his power.... so too me it really worked well.

 

a shame Renna Died, would have loved to see her journey and THAT final scene with the band.... i thought the character had a future in the series.

[Seaine's eyebrows]

5 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

I think in anticipation of S3 we should have our own Darkfriend social on here … 

 

I really hope Lanfear wins in this turning of the wheel. Best. Character. In S2! 
 

And how creepy was Moggy? Whatever else I complain about. Sweet ending … I’ll be back for S3 & will have “I ❤️‍🔥 Lanfear” T-Shirts ordered in advance. 

 

Or “Moggy 🕸️ Me” 

Or “Sammael is my Superhero” 

Or “Graendal, spank me?” 
Or “Rahvin is 

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Made you look 😉 

 

I'll have a Liandrin one!

"The Persimmons Are in Season"

😄

[Requiem]

10 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

She was crushed to death by debris.

 

She isn't in the xray and I went back and looked at the scene, I don't think any of the damane were the same actor

[Mailman]

40 minutes ago, Requiem said:

 

She isn't in the xray and I went back and looked at the scene, I don't think any of the damane were the same actor

What about the boat damane.

Feels like something the show would do having Moiraine kill the head of the blue ajah.

[Requiem]

5 minutes ago, Mailman said:

What about the boat damane.

Feels like something the show would do having Moiraine kill the head of the blue ajah.

 

She isn't one of Lady Suroth's damane so I would be surprised if she was on the boat.

 

At the end of the day collaring Aes Sedai in the books was a mixed blessing, you could still break them but it was impossible to make them break the three oaths so they were no good as magic artillery.

 

If they are being smart about it she'll  have been rescued so she can advocate for Egwene later down the line.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Requiem

[Uncontested]

I know this is like 11 pages long already, but I haven't seen a single post about how the White Cloaks are finally wearing armor... that definitely made me happy considering how silly some of the costume design decisions of this show have been so far..

[DreadLord31]

1 hour ago, Requiem said:

If they are being smart about it she'll  have been rescued so she can advocate for Egwene later down the line.

Have you seen anything to this point that would make you think “They’re being smart about things”??? LoL

 

Pretty sure it was her who died that Egwene picked up her collar to collar Renna. 

[notpropaganda73]

Much like the entire show, it was an uneven, inconsistent episode. Good parts are very good, poor parts are quite corny, weird pacing and parts that you feel are supposed to land as big moments but just don't. 

 

Nynaeve really has done absolutely nothing since the Arches, which was an amazing episode. They learned nothing with capturing the sul'dam. She can't get over her block, which is good because she shouldn't get another wow moment until she is able to control it, but really she did nothing else. Even Elayne saying use her Wisdom knowledge fell totally flat.

 

Mat did nothing for the entire season practically but gets a cool moment with the horn. They caught me with the Ishy illusion, well played there. Mat I think will be better next season, but they really could have done a better job in getting him to this point. I guess Padan Fain will be on a mad hunt for him/the dagger now. Perrin, they are very slowly getting there with him. I like the change of him outright revenge murdering Bornhald. It leans into the greys they've done so far, is somebody outright bad or good etc., Perrin has done a wrong thing, against a man shown as a "good" Whitecloak (so to speak), and Dain has every right to go on a revenge mission himself. That's good stuff imo. Hopper 💔 See you in the dream, friend.

 

The Aiel... ehh... I like the actors for those characters but honestly, get a director in that knows how to shoot action scenes, because as things stand they're just apparently good at fighting but the cuts are so bad we barely see it. The Caracarn bit was bad too, did not like that at all. 

 

Egwene has been done very well up to this point, episode 6 was really a game changer for her and I think it gives me hope that they can get characters on track without much time. But also feeds back into an annoyance at wasted time, limited time, etc.  

 

I think it's all coming back to being spread too thin with too many plot threads and not doing the majority of them justice. But I do like the EF5 being together at the end here, I don't think it was Egwene stealing any big moment, more her trying to protect Rand and in my opinion Ishy toying with her, trying to make Rand more desperate. 

 

I have a real annoyance with Moiraine and Lan this season. Their entire plot was really drawn out and frankly, boring, and Lan's behaviour in particular throughout it didn't feel consistent with him as a character. Moiraine's family element I liked, to a degree. Now they're reunited, and they fall for the simplest of Forsaken tricks, but why was the editorial decision made to just have Moiraine and Lan on a beach far from Falme at all? It was so... weird. Even if that is the decision, why not get them closer to the action by the time the actual ending happens? Why doesn't Lan at least get Ingtar's moment of holding a choke point and make it more badass then random ass solders running at them on a wide open beach? Why were the soldiers over there? The entire sequence I'm just thinking... wtf? This is boring and corny and just... what? Goes for Moiraine's big show of power too, similar to the end of S1 at Tarwin's Gap, I'm sat there thinking, really, that's the "big moment" for one of our heroes? Fell so flat to me. 

 

I would like to echo everyones thoughts on the Forsaken. Please bring back Fares Fares. I like the idea of Ishy being happy with death and being brought back by the DO, and he changes as a result, extremely bitter about it all rather than philosophical, becomes more mad, and more determined than ever to turn Rand to break the Wheel. Lanfear, what an actress, great stuff with her overall, sets her up brilliantly for the rest of the story. And Moghedien... wow, I mean how you end a season really goes a long way to maintaining buzz/excitement for the following season, and they absolutely nailed that. The actress was brilliant, I love this Moggy, cannot wait to see what happens now. 

 

And now we get on to Rand... I can't remember what thread I saw it in on this forum but somebody made a fantastic point - the small details really elevate a show from decent/good entertainment to a truly great adaptation and show. And Rand is where I think these things have not worked at all so far. This goes all the way back to S1 but I have a huge issue with Tam's sword burning up in this finale. More for the characterisation of Rand as a whole. We have barely seen Rand struggle at all with who he is, with Tam as his father, with where he comes from. There are small moments that we could be given throughout the season, maintaining the choices they've made (which I don't agree with overall), to give Rand more characterisation and make the audience more empathetic to him. I think he's been a bit of an empty vessel of a character so far, in all honesty he reminds me of Jon Snow in Game of Thrones. We are being told that he is important, we being told we should care about him, but honestly can anyone really say in the 16 episodes so far that we do? Who is this Rand? I don't recognise him at all - the only times I have are in S1 when he defended Mat from the negative comments of the other EFers, and this season when he said "I will never join him, in a thousand lives I never have, I'm sure of that" - that is a great line and that FEELS like Rand, but feels like Rand from the books. This Rand? I'm not so sure, the guy who murders an orderly and seemingly shows little remorse, the man who entices a Forsaken to rescue him, sees the destruction of the city and seemingly doesn't put 2+2 together? And again, show no remorse for that? 

 

This is a long rant, and to be clear I am enjoying the show, but if S3 doesn't give us some actual character work for Rand I think I'll be out. I'm not even talking about "big moments" I couldn't give a damn about them moving around big power moments to avoid power creep etc., that's all fine to me. But what is it about this guy, this Dragon, that I should care about? At the minute, not much.

 

 

[Guire]

As far as Seanchan soldiers, Lan snuck in to Moraine right before they appear that there are soldiers guarding on the cliff.  Makes sense from military perspective having patrols.  I assume seeing single Lady Single warrior tipped hat this was probably Aes Sedai since several had been captured at this point.  The bigger dumb thing was Seanchan not sending patrol out to investigate smoke, closing gate, and having damane ready on outer walls.  Remember Whitecloaks had been retaking and harassing outer Seanchan holdings so should have been prepared.

[Rhaze]

10 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

How does it go against show lore? Using the collar is not attacking a Sul Damane, it is collaring a potential Damane, that is not against the rules of the show as stated. Now is this a change from the books, yes, and I am happy having a debate on the pros and cons of that, personally I really don’t care as long as lore on show is maintained. 
 

My point was that my wife, who is unimpewded by “book lore” absolutely understood how a Damane could collar her Sul Damane and it not count as “attacking” her and so bypassed then jug. The whole point was that Egwene could not use the jug as a weapon, the collar is not weapon, in fact there are 2 similar arguments you could make, the first is that the collar can’t be a weapon because a Damane can’t be a Sul Damane and so it won’t be stopped, or Egwene attached the collar not fully knowing if it would work and so did not see it as a weapon. Both ways allow her to avoid the “jug” problem and make absolute perfect sense. 

 

At this point Renna is no longer a Sul Damane, but also, hanging her was causing Egwene immense strain and pain, she fought through that and managed to keep up the hanging. It was not an easy thing, maybe a line of blood from her eyes or nose might have shown the strain much better. 

 

Rafe is not going to come out and “spoil” a pretty big reveal for non book lovers, in the books Ishy dies, Rand asks him what his punishment was for dying, and he tells him resurrection. That feeds directly into this moment, ishy has died, for a moment. 

 It doesnt matter if the fans dont know, Ishy knows he will be resurrected so the whole "Ishy let him kill him because Ishy wants to die" is not valid. Ishy did not let Rand kill him because he wanted to die, he knew dying wasnt changing anything. So it was basically just stupid.

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Rhaze said:

he knew dying wasnt changing anything.

This is wrong.

Ishy plays the very long game. The show has established this in many, many ways. Dying is changing lots of things. Ishy knew that Rand wasn't ready to turn to the Shadow. He knew he couldn't win. So he's taking himself off the board and letting the rest of the Forsaken deal with Rand. Either Rand will break the wheel anyway (so Ishy wins), or Rand will win guaranteeing Ishy another shot.

 

"Dying" is Ishamael's optimal choice.

 

The show has also established that Ishamael is the only one of the Forsaken who really believes in the Dark. He is the favored of the Dark One. He knows the DO isn't going to allow him to remain off the board forever. So, like he did at the Eye and like he has been doing to literally everyone he has interacted with all season, he gives Rand what he wants him to see. He sells it - "I see ... nothing" - letting Rand truly believe that he has removed him from the pattern. Because Rand is young and naive and will believe it ... again.

 

(And, no, Rafe isn't going to spoil this reveal. He has every reason to want to play along.)

 

 

[Gary Again]

I liked this review he seems like he really appreciated Ishy and I thought this was a great send off. I also thought the ending with Ishy and his conversation with Rand was a particularly nice touch and great balance to how the episode started with the cold open that I also thought was great.

 

Especially that Lews' actor did capture the subtle arrogance and imprisoning and leaving conscious for 3,000 years a guy that just wants to die is pretty horrifying, it was nice that Rand gave him some peace even if it is temporary. I think this was a big part of the books too how Rand's upbringing with Tam was a big difference between him and Lews and I think they this showed it in a great way.

 

“It’s beautiful,” says the Forsaken called Ishamael, dying. “Do you see it, Lews?”

“What do you see?” replies Rand al’Thor, the reincarnation of Ishamael’s best friend turned bitterest enemy, Lews Therin, the Dragon Reborn.

 

“Nothing,” Ishamael says, smiling as his body crumbles away to dust. “Nothing at all.”

 

So ends a fascinating antagonist. A true nihilist, Ishamael was a man who, in The Big Lebowski’s memorable formulation, truly did believe in nothing. Aghast at the suffering inherent in life, his goal was to eliminate life, and thus suffering, forever. In the end, the only life ended was his own — and that only temporarily, if the Wheel of Time keeps on turning as it’s always done.

 

Still, what a lovely grace note for Ishamael, and for actor Fares Fares, who made him so charming and engaging a presence both in the lives of the other characters and simply on the screen.

 

It also cracked me up that this guy hasn't read the books but expects this:

 

Man, oh man, do I dig this. Superman as a selfless protector of the people of Metropolis is one thing. Superman as the leader of an army dedicated to destroying all evil forever? Sign me the hell up.

 

https://www.vulture.com/article/the-wheel-of-time-recap-season-2-episode-8-what-was-meant-to-be.html

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Gary Again

[Mirefox]

Should Ishy have said “I win again…” before he started to crumble?

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Should Ishy have said “I win again…” before he started to crumble?

While it would have been very cool, I think it would have defeated Ishy’s intent. 

[Skipp]

I do believe it will be more impactful when Ishy is the only Forsaken to be thrown into a new body.  Before the finale I didn't think we would get the Ishy to Moridin switch but I think the reveal down the line could be pretty amazing.  Especially if they use the line about being resurrected was his punishment.

[Mirefox]

41 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

While it would have been very cool, I think it would have defeated Ishy’s intent. 

Was Ishy’s intent clear?  I think the line could have worked no matter what; he’s saying “you did what I wanted you to do” whether than means killing him or accelerating or resurrection or whatever else he had in mind.  Ah well,  I big loss, I just think it would have be pretty cool.

[Luinedhel]

 DOVIE'ANDI SE TOVYA SAGAIN! The final episode brought some of the scenes I enjoyed the most, but also a couple of dissapointments. Here's a brief review on the season Finale:

 

[Requiem]

10 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

Pretty sure it was her who died that Egwene picked up her collar to collar Renna. 

 

Just watched the scene again and I think you are right. The actor is listed on IMDB as in the episode as well. So it would appear that she is dead.

 

[Mirefox]

7 minutes ago, Requiem said:

 

Just watched the scene again and I think you are right. The actor is listed on IMDB as in the episode as well. So it would appear that she is dead.

 

That was my initial thought when I watched.

[kebo85]

Don’t know if this has been discussed previously but how are the damane who where Aes Sedai able to channel as a weapon. Should the 3 oaths not still take effect?

[Skipp]

28 minutes ago, kebo85 said:

Don’t know if this has been discussed previously but how are the damane who where Aes Sedai able to channel as a weapon. Should the 3 oaths not still take effect?

 

This is addressed in book 2 I think and if not then it is addressed in a later book  .Aes Sedai taken as Damane cannot be used in battle effectively due to the 3 oaths..  They did not really address this in the show but I don't believe it showed Aes Sedai Damane participating in battle.  I could be wrong as Miagan clearly died on top of the tower but I don't recall see her doing any weaves.  I will have to go back and check.

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, kebo85 said:

Don’t know if this has been discussed previously but how are the damane who where Aes Sedai able to channel as a weapon. Should the 3 oaths not still take effect?

on the other hand, since they will be killed if they refuse, it can be argued that they are channeling in the last extreme to defend their life...

[Averlan]

On 10/6/2023 at 2:45 AM, Meskell said:

- why is Uno a hero?

 

Because they realized they killed one of the only non-powered characters that last the entire series?

- Moiraine somehow has the power to destroy a ship from a mile away.

 

I guess we will just ignore  those three oaths and use the one power as a weapon against people not shadow spawn.

 

 

My initial though... they turned rand into a 2 bit side character at the end...really

 

 

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

on the other hand, since they will be killed if they refuse, it can be argued that they are channeling in the last extreme to defend their life...

But renna actually says this is not the case first infraction is removal of tongue second is removal of hands. Not sure how that is productive considering they use so much hand waving and i thought they showed in S1 with Valda that cutting off hands prevented some channeling.

[DaddyFinn]

Uno is Gaidal Cain, confirmed by Rafe in an interview