Will the show be good? Our hopes and concerns

[Ryan al'Thor]

56 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Kae Alexandre has (she/they) in her instagram bio so people added 1+1=3

Well that would certainly be controversial lol

[DaddyFinn]

1 minute ago, notpropaganda73 said:

Comments such as "all the men would just choose saidar" really actually highlights why such a storyline would be necessary as it fundamentally misunderstands a trans persons' identity. Nobody chooses it. 

The issue for me would be: would the saidar channeling people with male genitalia be allowed in the White Tower and vice versa? What else would have to be changed in the lore to make regular people okay with it? 

[notpropaganda73]

4 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

The issue for me would be: would the saidar channeling people with male genitalia be allowed in the White Tower and vice versa? What else would have to be changed in the lore to make regular people okay with it? 

 

I think it poses a lot of interesting questions that aren't exactly easy to answer, but as I said I think if handled well it could open up and enrich the WoT world. I don't have any perfect answers and I don't think any depiction would make everyone happy or okay with it, but I think there are ways of exploring it that are interesting. It's not a core part of the story but I think if there was a character representing that community, it could be done well. 

[hatsoff]

21 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Shame on us? For what? For not wanting them to make changes that don't fit or aid the story simply to push an agenda.

 

If they de-gender souls... now we have a problem; because now they're majorly changing the story ... And the fear is ... Not knowing... Why?

 

Are there good story telling reasons for this or is it to force feed us an agenda - that frankly, is offensive and tiresome to me and is usually very poorly reasoned out.

 

If the "agenda" you mean is to get all kinds of people emotionally involved in the story, and not just cis straight folks, then absolutely I support that!  And maybe I was too harsh with my 'shame' language, but still.

 

Consider again the two examples I gave:

 

(1)  Having a trans character; and

(2)  Moiraine not being sure of the gender of the Dragon.

 

How the writer/producer/director folks handle (1) is almost sure to fail, I grant you.  But the idea in principle is not objectionable.

 

As to your strange response to (2), I have no words except your own:  "De-gender souls"?  Wtf are you talking about?

Edited November 11, 2021 by hatsoff

[JJLXL]

I want it to be a 10/10

 

My personal expectation would be at least 8/10

 

The reality as things stand, put it at 6/10....maybe even 5/10.

 

Hopefully it's at least as good as the average between these numbers, 7.25/10

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Agitel]

40 minutes ago, hatsoff said:

"De-gender souls"?  Wtf are you talking about?

 

In The Wheel of Time books, souls are gendered. Men in one life are always reborn as men, and are the rebirth of a man. Women in one life are always reborn as women, and are the rebirth of a woman. Which half of the One Power a channeled can channel is tied to their soul.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Agitel

[Pandemonium]

Trans characters changing which power they channel and if they get an Aes Sedai powered  gender re assignment would certainly be a wild turn on the show.  Even that doesn't work though because some people may not identify with just 1 gender...  Or if certain souls have a Male soul born in a female body would channel saidin?  aka halima. the precedent was already there. 

 

not sure how they will handle that.  Maybe some people are born with the innate ability to channel both saidin and saidar?  that would certainly make hermaphrodites and the like a much more valued group in the wheel of time world.  That works for me, in India they always used to say that the transexual people provided special blessings. 

 

I guess they could go there, but I just hope it doesnt derail the rules that RJ established too much.  I'm not sure there is a way to respectfully display that demographic that would make the transexual community 100% happy.  not sure, but I would definitely listen to other perspectives on that.  

[hatsoff]

15 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

In The Wheel of Time books, souls are gendered. Men in one life are always reborn as men, and are the rebirth of a man. Women in one life are always reborn as women, and are the rebirth of a woman. Which half of the One Power a channeled can channel is tied to their soul.

I don't recall Jordan or Sanderson speaking of soul genders, but I guess it's not like I have a perfect memory.

 

I do seem to recall that Aginor was reincarnated as a female, and yet used Saidin.*  He (she?) wasn't trans, but it does go to show that anatomy has little to do in Jordan's world with which half of the One Power is being used.

 

*- I vaguely recall there was another male Forsaken reincarnated as female, but it's been too long.  Again, I was just a kid.

Edited November 11, 2021 by hatsoff

[MasterAblar]

11 minutes ago, hatsoff said:

I don't recall Jordan or Sanderson speaking of soul genders, but I guess it's not like I have a perfect memory.

 

I do seem to recall that Aginor was reincarnated as a female, and yet used Saidin.*  He (she?) wasn't trans, but it does go to show that anatomy has little to do in Jordan's world with which half of the One Power is being used.

 

*- I vaguely recall there was another male Forsaken reincarnated as female, but it's been too long.  Again, I was just a kid.

 

It was Balthamel and yes he channelled saidin as a woman because its tied to the soul.

[Agitel]

20 minutes ago, hatsoff said:

I don't recall Jordan or Sanderson speaking of soul genders, but I guess it's not like I have a perfect memory.

 

I do seem to recall that Aginor was reincarnated as a female, and yet used Saidin.*  He (she?) wasn't trans, but it does go to show that anatomy has little to do in Jordan's world with which half of the One Power is being used.

 

*- I vaguely recall there was another male Forsaken reincarnated as female, but it's been too long.  Again, I was just a kid.

 

The Dark One forced a male soul he had captured into an already existing female body he stripped a soul out of. Which is why Aran'gar channeled Saidin.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Agitel

[Youss99]

My concern after reading how, after the NOT author of the series has decided how the actual AUTHOR would have written it, is the show they are making. This is truly now nothing more than expensive fan fiction.  Honestly after reading today the quote saying this is how RJ would have written it today is just an insult to every fan and Robert Jordan.

 

The only person who should ever come close to saying something like that is his widow.  I was growing more optimistic, but all my earlier doubts have come back full force with their total commitment to destroying the very basis of the WoT universe.  Like the books that weren't written by Jordan, I am now wishing they never made this because what's about to come out will be the TAINTED version of the WoT.

 

And Rafe is now the Dragon who ended the AOL burning it all down and corrupting everything for us.

 

I'm sorry that this seems so negative, but it's just how I'm feeling right now about what is coming out.  I do hope you all enjoy it, and hopefully it bothers me less, but right now watching the show just left my agenda.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Youss99

[DaddyFinn]

1 minute ago, Youss99 said:

Honestly after reading today the quote saying this is how RJ would have written it today is just an insult to every fan and Robert Jordan.

Rafe hopes this is what RJ would have written. A small nitpick. I didn't like that part either

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Youss99 said:

My concern after reading how, after the NOT author of the series has decided how the actual AUTHOR would have written it, is the show they are making. This is truly now nothing more than expensive fan fiction.  Honestly after reading today the quote saying this is how RJ would have written it today is just an insult to every fan and Robert Jordan.

 

 

Certainly glad you have the authority to speak for every fan.

 

 

[Youss99]

8 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

Certainly glad you have the authority to speak for every fan.

 

 

I'm glad you're glad then.

[swollymammoth]

3 hours ago, hatsoff said:

If the "agenda" you mean is to get all kinds of people emotionally involved in the story, and not just cis straight folks,

Anyone who can't get emotionally involved with a story because it doesn't features characters of their own identity (race/gender/sexuality etc) is emotionally immature and should not be catered to. 

 

Tons of straight guys had no problem getting invested in Simoun, an anime where nearly all the main characters are lesbians. 

 

I just recently read a book called The Crucible of Time in which all the characters are mantis aliens, and got extremely invested. 

 

My favorite anime of 2020 was Heaven Official's Blessing where everyone is Asian and gay and yet somehow I was able to become emotionally invested in these characters who exhibit none of the characteristics by which I would identify myself. 

 

Fiction is a medium by which we are meant to relate to people different than us through the shared human experience of struggling to achieve our goals. 

[Skipp]

59 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Anyone who can't get emotionally involved with a story because it doesn't features characters of their own identity (race/gender/sexuality etc) is emotionally immature and should not be catered to.

I have been trying to stay out of the politics talk but this statement is incredibly easy to make when your race/gender/sexuality has been the norm for all media your entire life.

 

1 hour ago, swollymammoth said:

Tons of straight guys had no problem getting invested in Simoun, an anime where nearly all the main characters are lesbians.

 

My wife and I are big anime fans, she much more than I.  And while I have not seen Simoun, and this is certainly a bit of a knee jerk judgement but this comment might not be making the statement you think it is.

[JaimAybara]

It’s starting to look like the rumours and concerns about Perrin are being realized. 

[Deadsy]

Since I like Mat a lot more than Perrin I'm more concerned about Mat's humor being screwed up. But luckily they can change things (if they want) pretty easily due to the dagger plot.

[JaimAybara]

3 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

Since I like Mat a lot more than Perrin I'm more concerned about Mat's humor being screwed up. But luckily they can change things (if they want) pretty easily due to the dagger plot.

I just thought all they had to do to fix any issue with Perrin was condense the Shaido plot line. Not get rid of it though because it was still good. I enjoyed the whitecloak stuff and slayer after that. You do get a parachute for your favorite character though…Lucky…

[Pandemonium]

So by the sounds of things perrins wife in the show is, for lack of better words, .........an epic Faile?

 

*drum roll please*

Edited November 11, 2021 by Pandemonium

[JaimAybara]

4 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

So by the sounds of things perrins wife in the show is an epic faile?

 

*drum roll please*

*This is in the article I read.*

Edited November 11, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Deadsy]

16 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I just thought all they had to do to fix any issue with Perrin was condense the Shaido plot line. Not get rid of it though because it was still good. I enjoyed the whitecloak stuff and slayer after that. You do get a parachute for your favorite character though…Lucky…

 

 

Ya, that is my main problem with his story line. As far as the character, really liked him through 6. But there is one scene that pisses me off every time I read it, which is when he gets mad at Rand for "using" people and asks if there is anyone he won't use. Like it's ok for Rand to go sacrifice himself to save everyone but god forbid he ask for assistance. I still enjoyed reading lots of his stuff after but that was one of the most annoying scenes in the series for me.

[Wraith235]

I am more and more concerned with this 
Im down to a 5 maybe a 4 after a lot of what I read over the last few days 

Souls across time -----was a big thing to Jordan  the Dragon has always been a male - and while I see a lot of the current world gender politics coming out TBH if they are dumb enough to try to change DR into Eg, or Nyn that is amount to ending themselves - that's one things the fans wont stand for , but as has been said elsewhere in this thread - why are you doing this ?

Perrin Married - ugh ok I guess since all the characters are being aged up but I agree with the mentality of what Perrin would do if that happened

Eg as a lesbian..... its a hard pill to swallow particularly when you factor in her reaction to meeting Gallad for the 1st time, as well as her relationship to Gawain(sp?)

Min as Trans - this is probably MY PERSONAL  biggest grumble .... Min was my favorite character in the books so this one is a little more personal to me- it looks like a leap to go from here to her being trans based on twitter bio but weirder things have happened

Cauthorn Ner-do wells - mmmmm dont really see the point in this 

Judkins thinking they know how Jordan would be writing in todays world, ---- this infuriates me.
The Gall one must have to assume that you know better than the creator is absurd and I REALLY am curious about Harriots opinion on the quote ""It's a very fundamental change actually to make to the book series and it has a lot of ripple effects, and we'll continue to do things like that I think are more reflective of what hopefully Robert Jordan would be Writing if he was Writing today"

this alone - if there was NOTHING ELSE would make me INCREDIBLY wary of this series, Honestly at this point why even call it "The Wheel of time" make it your own show instead of trying to piggyback off of a beloved work such as this 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Wraith235

[Deadsy]

36 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

I am more and more concerned with this 
Im down to a 5 maybe a 4 after a lot of what I read over the last few days 

Souls across time -----was a big thing to Jordan  the Dragon has always been a male - and while I see a lot of the current world gender politics coming out TBH if they are dumb enough to try to change DR into Eg, or Nyn that is amount to ending themselves - that's one things the fans wont stand for , but as has been said elsewhere in this thread - why are you doing this ?

Perrin Married - ugh ok I guess since all the characters are being aged up but I agree with the mentality of what Perrin would do if that happened

Eg as a lesbian..... its a hard pill to swallow particularly when you factor in her reaction to meeting Gallad for the 1st time, as well as her relationship to Gawain(sp?)

Min as Trans - this is probably MY PERSONAL  biggest grumble .... Min was my favorite character in the books so this one is a little more personal to me- it looks like a leap to go from here to her being trans based on twitter bio but weirder things have happened

 

 

Why are you so worried about things that aren't going to happen? Rafe has already said Rand is the DR in the show, not that there should have ever been any doubt.

 

Why do you think they're going to make Egwene a lesbian?

Why do you think they're going to make Min trans? Will Rand fall in love him or will he just be Rand's friend?

Edited November 11, 2021 by Deadsy

[Wraith235]

18 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

Why are you so worried about things that aren't going to happen? Rafe has already said Rand is the DR in the show, not that there should have ever been any doubt.

 

Why do you think they're going to make Egwene a lesbian?

Why do you think they're going to make Min trans? Will Rand fall in love him or will he just be Rand's friend?

the eg and Min stuff actually came from this thread 

the DR Stuff is not that big of a leap, also I have not seen Rafe say "Rand is DR" 
I have seen Rafes Quote that there have been female dragons in the past, and even in the trailers there is supporting evidence such as "one of you 5" and "we dont know weather the dragon is a boy or a girl" 

I dont Trust Rafe (or any writer/ director for that matter)  not to go full ham on these changes - Particularly when they are in the trailers 
if they are willing to make those changes, how much farther will they go .... they have already basically said they know how Jordan would be writing if he were still alive and that makes these Lore altering changes ok 

how many Other IP's are out there that have been RUINED by a Writer/director thinking they know better than the creator, I just dont want to see it of this series, Im not saying I wont watch it .... but I am definatly terridfied of whats comming