Will the show be good? Our hopes and concerns

[Rose]

Since I'm the one who proposed this I guess I should be the one to start it. Let's see if it actually works lol

 

With less than two weeks to go before the show airs, how are you feeling about it? On a scale of 0 to 10, with 0 being "I'll hate-watch it or not at all" and 10 being "It's going to be the best show ever" where are your expectations at? What are you concerned about? What are you hopeful for?

 

There's only one rule I'd like to propose for this thread: don't mock or invalidate anyone else's concerns. Even if you think they're ridiculous or an overreaction. We all have different things we care about and are attached to and we should still be able to have a civil conversation about them.

 

I'll start:

 

I'm pretty excited. I'm mostly really looking forward to finally introducing some of my non-book reader friends and family to this world and characters I love so much. On a scale of 0 to 10, I'd rate my expectations at an 8. It's not going to be the best show ever, but I think it has a really good shot at doing well. 

 

I do have some concerns about some of things we've seen in promotional materials so far. I don't like the rumored change about Perrin's wife, and I hope it doesn't play out in the worst way possible (him actually killing her). I don't think they need to lean too hard into giving the protagonists dark and angsty backstories right off the bat. Their relative innocence at the start of the story would be refreshing to see in contrast to most fantasy we get these days. (This goes for Mat too). I also hope they don't add a bunch of gratuitous sex just for the ratings. Finally, when it comes to the changes related to gender, I've thought through a lot of different ways they could go about it and there are some I like less than others. I'll have to watch and find out.

 

Overall, though, I'm pretty hopeful. It looks like they're doing a lot of things right and I'm absolutely in love with the sheer amount of symbolism, foreshadowing and attention to detail we've seen in the promotional materials. I really hope the show does well enough to be renewed for a third season (and much more).

[Ryan al'Thor]

7.5

Very impressed with visuals so far. Cast looks good and seems to get their characters. Some of them are even getting far into the books. The Perrin wife thing and Mat’s parents rumors don’t bother me too much if they are true. The only thing that has me worried is the dragon gender stuff and possible ta’veren changes for EF5. There is doubt now. I would have said 9.0 a week ago.

[Katherine]

6/10

loved the official trailer, but some of the gender changes are troubling. Want to see this done right! 

[Harldin]

24 minutes ago, Rose said:

Since I'm the one who proposed this I guess I should be the one to start it. Let's see if it actually works lol

 

With less than two weeks to go before the show airs, how are you feeling about it? On a scale of 0 to 10, with 0 being "I'll hate-watch it or not at all" and 10 being "It's going to be the best show ever" where are your expectations at? What are you concerned about? What are you hopeful for?

 

There's only one rule I'd like to propose for this thread: don't mock or invalidate anyone else's concerns. Even if you think they're ridiculous or an overreaction. We all have different things we care about and are attached to and we should still be able to have a civil conversation about them.

 

I'll start:

 

I'm pretty excited. I'm mostly really looking forward to finally introducing some of my non-book reader friends and family to this world and characters I love so much. On a scale of 0 to 10, I'd rate my expectations at an 8. It's not going to be the best show ever, but I think it has a really good shot at doing well. 

 

I do have some concerns about some of things we've seen in promotional materials so far. I don't like the rumored change about Perrin's wife, and I hope it doesn't play out in the worst way possible (him actually killing her). I don't think they need to lean too hard into giving the protagonists dark and angsty backstories right off the bat. Their relative innocence at the start of the story would be refreshing to see in contrast to most fantasy we get these days. (This goes for Mat too). I also hope they don't add a bunch of gratuitous sex just for the ratings. Finally, when it comes to the changes related to gender, I've thought through a lot of different ways they could go about it and there are some I like less than others. I'll have to watch and find out.

 

Overall, though, I'm pretty hopeful. It looks like they're doing a lot of things right and I'm absolutely in love with the sheer amount of symbolism, foreshadowing and attention to detail we've seen in the promotional materials. I really hope the show does well enough to be renewed for a third season (and much more).

From what I have seen so far 

Visually 10/10

Writing 8/10

Acting 9/10

Overall Storyline 9/10*

Adaptation of minor plotlines from the Books 6/10

Adaptation of a new Plotline that is not in the Books 8/10

Selling of the series 8/10

Overall 8/10
*using the perspective of the show only. 

The only complaint I have at this stage is some minor changes, especially in the 2 Rivers and I await to see how these changes only.   

[Harldin]

7 minutes ago, Katherine said:

6/10

loved the official trailer, but some of the gender changes are troubling. Want to see this done right! 

What Gender changes? 

[Skipp]

 I am bouncing between a 7 and a 10.  My fan brain still can't get over the fact that we are actually getting a WoT Television so.  I have been following the production closely for a little over a year and it still doesn't seem real. 

 

My skeptical brain then takes over and worries about the changes that have to come with an adaptation.  Most of the stuff I have seen I am a big fan of(Love the unique look of the Whitecloaks rather than the generic knights templars that we usually see bandied about).  But then I see worrying stuff like the Perrin's Wife thing or Moiraine telling the group that one of them is the Dragon Reborn rather than saying "The dark one is after one or all of you).  But I am very interested to see what the writers think of to make these type of changes work.

 

But then I see the horribly fighting going on between the fandom on Reddit/Twitter, even here and it makes me less excited to follow the show than any change I have seen proposed.  So lets just be good to each other.

[Rose]

1 minute ago, Harldin said:

What Gender changes? 

 

In a recent teaser, Moiraine said she didn't know whether the Dragon was reborn as a boy or a girl.

[Ryan al'Thor]

7 minutes ago, Rose said:

 

In a recent teaser, Moiraine said she didn't know whether the Dragon was reborn as a boy or a girl.

Just to clarify it was in the first minute of actual show. Carry on.

[Rose]

15 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Moiraine telling the group that one of them is the Dragon Reborn rather than saying "The dark one is after one or all of you). 

 

I had forgotten about this. Yes, this is also on my "not thrilled" list. I can understand why they need to be more in your face with things like this for the sake of the show's audience but I'll still mourn the lack of subtlety.

 

Which reminds me of another one I had forgotten about because it's been so long (although, it was less than a month ago, time is weird): Lan and Moiraine's dramatic entrance. Still holding out hope it looks better when seen in context though.

[Harldin]

15 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 I am bouncing between a 7 and a 10.  My fan brain still can't get over the fact that we are actually getting a WoT Television so.  I have been following the production closely for a little over a year and it still doesn't seem real. 

 

My skeptical brain then takes over and worries about the changes that have to come with an adaptation.  Most of the stuff I have seen I am a big fan of(Love the unique look of the Whitecloaks rather than the generic knights templars that we usually see bandied about).  But then I see worrying stuff like the Perrin's Wife thing or Moiraine telling the group that one of them is the Dragon Reborn rather than saying "The dark one is after one or all of you).  But I am very interested to see what the writers think of to make these type of changes work.

 

But then I see the horribly fighting going on between the fandom on Reddit/Twitter, even here and it makes me less excited to follow the show than any change I have seen proposed.  So lets just be good to each other.

I stay away Reddit and Twitter, full of Trolls who are there for no other reason then getting a reaction. I have become very selective about where I go. A handful of You Tubers and there Discord Channels but unfortunately not the Dragonmount Discord, find it to negative.

[Pandemonium]

Honestly not sure what to expect.  I'm. keeping a 6 to7/10 in my mind so I'm not too disappointed.  

 

The Czech outdoor setting and the towns and cities I have to say look 10/10 so far.  The trolloc costumes also 10/10

 

Need to see more of the One power scenes before I make any conclusions.  Some of that might look a bit like a video game, but I guess that ok.  Hopefully it ends up looking unique and not like a mage in Diablo.

 

Really love the songs and music themes I have heard so far as well.  

 

Can't really comment on the characters or acting until I see the episodes so I'm setting the bar low.  

 

Hopefully it looks better and builds better than Shadow and Bone which I didn't like so much

 

[Tim]

11 minutes ago, Rose said:

 

I had forgotten about this. Yes, this is also on my "not thrilled" list. I can understand why they need to be more in your face with things like this for the sake of the show's audience but I'll still mourn the lack of subtlety.

yeah when I see changes like introducing the idea of the dragon reborn straightaway, it’s not the deviation from the plot of the books that concerns me really, so much as whether it’s a sign that the show is just going to be this series of dramatic expository announcements because of the lack of time and space to actually develop plot lines more subtly. I’m not saying that will happen, but hamfisted, tell-don’t-show writing and acting is always a risk with a series of this nature.
 

More than “who is the dragon?”, the apparent plot emphasis that I quite like is the question “is the dragon reborn going to help us or harm us?” Aside from providing some framing consistency to Rand’s arc which is still drawn from the books, it suggests a desire not to make a show that is too pat, that answers things too simplistically. 

[Rose]

 

3 minutes ago, Tim said:

More than “who is the dragon?”, the apparent plot emphasis that I quite like is the question “is the dragon reborn going to help us or harm us?” Aside from providing some framing consistency to Rand’s arc which is still drawn from the books, it suggests a desire not to make a show that is too pat, that answers things too simplistically. 

 

I really hope they lean into that, yes. I think it would give the show a lot of depth and also cast suspicion on Moiraine and her intentions with respect to the Dragon reborn.

[Pandemonium]

I think the thing that has kept my expectations tapered is the abundance of cliches in the ads.  Dark one and end of times, chosen one young hero, similar themes to Lord of the Rings, etc.  I will be more excited when I see the shows and what sets it apart from the rest of fantasy.  I know some of my friends saw the commercials and were thinking it looked a little generic as well.  Can't wait till they break out of the mold and let the show become it's own creation.  

[Tim]

21 minutes ago, Rose said:

I really hope they lean into that, yes. I think it would give the show a lot of depth and also cast suspicion on Moiraine and her intentions with respect to the Dragon reborn.

Yeah I was thinking about Moiraine’s framing monologue and how it almost sounds more like something Elaida might say, combined with the actor saying that the audience isn’t supposed to know whether Moraine is a force for good or not. In the books her presence is soothing enough that it’s hard not to think of her as good, in particular during the first book. And obviously giving her more of a protagonist role would tend to exacerbate that. Having her say stuff - either to other characters or through the fourth wall - that suggests she very well might want to destroy the DR creates a countervailing dynamic, 

 

At first blush the opening monologue, if used in the show, feels a bit like it falls into the expository trap I mentioned, but I guess the level of subtlety that would be ideal for me is unlikely to be possible. 

13 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

 

I think the thing that has kept my expectations tapered is the abundance of cliches in the ads.  Dark one and end of times, chosen one young hero, similar themes to Lord of the Rings, etc.

 

I feel the same, and have mostly been worried that a straightforward adaptation and compression of book 1 would end up looking very much like generic fantasy (much more so than the first book actually reads). So I am more inclined to sympathize with changes that downplay the “mystical battle with vaguely defined elemental evil” angle and lean into the morally grey, “I don’t know who I am supposed to be rooting for” aspects of the books. Though of course they could easily screw that up as well.

[Harldin]

1 hour ago, Harldin said:

From what I have seen so far 

Visually 10/10

Writing 8/10

Acting 9/10

Overall Storyline 9/10*

Adaptation of minor plotlines from the Books 6/10

Adaptation of a new Plotline that is not in the Books 8/10

Selling of the series 8/10

Overall 8/10
*using the perspective of the show only. 

The only complaint I have at this stage is some minor changes, especially in the 2 Rivers and I await to see how these changes only.   

And 9/10 for Costumes, would be 10/10 except for the Whitecloak Uniforms, not a huge fan

[JaimAybara]

Visuals: 9/10 - I have some issue with the extent of the monochromatic colors and some issue with some of the costume design, but overall: A- (where are my Black Veiled Aiel? Whitecloaks could be better.)

 

Soundtrack: 9/10 - I’m digging it so far but want more variation and a couple bawdy tavern songs along the way. I also want Thom to wipe the floor with The Witcher’s Bard. (friendly fandom rivalry). Overall A-

 

Character Dev./ Book Fidelity: 7/10 

C-

positive change = Egwene (female story) +1. I like it heaps better that she is aged up and not just leaving on a fanciful whim. This is the one change in EF5 that I think is meritorious. 

 

Positive change = whitecloaks doing what they were always implied to be doing off screen. Giving them some teeth and I like it.+1 

positive keep = Nynaeve so far is exactly as she should be. No change, faithful adaptation. +1

 

Negative Change = Perrin fridging wife (rumor / male story) -2, This is one of the big ones for me. Drive his story forward with the whitecloaks, Elyas, Hopper, and maybe the crazy wolf brother Noam. Lews Therin fridges his entire family…we don’t need this. This would just ruin Perrin beyond functioning. 

 

Negative Change = Mat’s parents (rumor/male story) -1. Mat is the lovable scoundrel who has to deal with Shadar Logoth briefly and returns to his roguish charm. Don’t give him excuses for his shortcomings. He is the one male who truly doesn’t have anything to blame them on other than himself.

 

Negative change = Lan isn’t as stoic as he should be. Big no. (male story) -1 

 

Negative change = messing with magic systems and the story of the Dragon Reborn arbitrarily. -2 (this is just pandering with no payoff. It will potentially have larger consequences down the road at worst, and give us watered down lore at best.)

 

Final Rating: 25/30 (B)

Edited November 7, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Deadsy]

1 hour ago, Tim said:

Yeah I was thinking about Moiraine’s framing monologue and how it almost sounds more like something Elaida might say, combined with the actor saying that the audience isn’t supposed to know whether Moraine is a force for good or not. In the books her presence is soothing enough that it’s hard not to think of her as good, in particular during the first book. And obviously giving her more of a protagonist role would tend to exacerbate that. Having her say stuff - either to other characters or through the fourth wall - that suggests she very well might want to destroy the DR creates a countervailing dynamic, 

 

At first blush the opening monologue, if used in the show, feels a bit like it falls into the expository trap I mentioned, but I guess the level of subtlety that would be ideal for me is unlikely to be possible. 

I feel the same, and have mostly been worried that a straightforward adaptation and compression of book 1 would end up looking very much like generic fantasy (much more so than the first book actually reads). So I am more inclined to sympathize with changes that downplay the “mystical battle with vaguely defined elemental evil” angle and lean into the morally grey, “I don’t know who I am supposed to be rooting for” aspects of the books. Though of course they could easily screw that up as well.

 

 

A questioned whether Moiraine was good or bad up until just before Shadar Logoth, and I believe the clip where she's speaking is mean to be 20 years prior. We may see her perspective change a bit as the story moves forwards. we'll see.

[Deadsy]

1 hour ago, JaimAybara said:

Negative Change = Mat’s parents (rumor/male story) -1. Mat is the lovable scoundrel who has to deal with Shadar Logoth briefly and returns to his roguish charm. Don’t give him excuses for his shortcomings. He is the one male who truly doesn’t have anything to blame them on other than himself.

 

 

This is what I'm most worried about, and the new clip that has dialogue from him makes me more worried. I don't remember him being darkly sarcastic in the books, except when under the influence of the dagger. Mat didn't need to have a troubled past. It was great that he didn't have any baggage. He was one of my favorite characters. The dagger was enough of a backstory for him to have.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Deadsy

[DaddyFinn]

I have not seen that many TV-shows sooo.. 9/10. It all comes down to writing. I like pretty much everything so far and I'm not too concerned with rumors and changes. Opinions on those could change with full context. Only way to do this is Watch And Find Out.

[TheMountain]

I think it's going to be a 6 or a 7. It will make for watchable television, but ultimately I think in it's attempt to increase it's mass appeal, it will come off as somewhat generic, tropey and sterilized. Ironically, this will probably prevent it from breaking out and becoming a huge hit, so I'd expect a shorter run, *maybe* a third or fourth season.

 

I don't doubt though that there will be lot's of glowing reviews and news articles about how progressive it is and how daring the changes are for the first month or so... everybody will want to love it, but I think it will fail to gain a strong following from the book fandom and word of mouth. 

[Katherine]

6 hours ago, TheMountain said:

I think it's going to be a 6 or a 7. It will make for watchable television, but ultimately I think in it's attempt to increase it's mass appeal, it will come off as somewhat generic, tropey and sterilized. Ironically, this will probably prevent it from breaking out and becoming a huge hit, so I'd expect a shorter run, *maybe* a third or fourth season.

 

I don't doubt though that there will be lot's of glowing reviews and news articles about how progressive it is and how daring the changes are for the first month or so... everybody will want to love it, but I think it will fail to gain a strong following from the book fandom and word of mouth. 

This is how I honestly see it going. ?

[Elgee]

17 hours ago, Rose said:

 

I had forgotten about this. Yes, this is also on my "not thrilled" list. I can understand why they need to be more in your face with things like this for the sake of the show's audience but I'll still mourn the lack of subtlety.

 

Which reminds me of another one I had forgotten about because it's been so long (although, it was less than a month ago, time is weird): Lan and Moiraine's dramatic entrance. Still holding out hope it looks better when seen in context though.

 

I'm with you on those two things. I'm still extremely exited to see the show, but I'm 50/50 on whether or not it's going to be awesome or make me mad. Changing things to make it better for screen I'm all for, but not because of other reasons (I can't begin to understand why "hollywood" does what it does, sometimes).

 

One more thing that's bothering me, is the soundtrack. So far everything I hear seems to be in the Old Tongue? Why? It doesn't mean anything to new viewers, they won't understand it, and quite frankly neither will most of the reader fandom. I hope further songs we here will be in English at least.

[Reader]

I'm really hoping it will be good. Mia dovienya nesodhin soende.

 

If not as The Wheel of Time then as The Wheel of time, Tribute.

[Ralph]

I expect it to be very good. I expect a lot of changes from the books, and I hope I will be able to understand why they have made them, although I am sure I won't agree with all. 

 

I don't think anyone who will only be happy with a faithful representation of the books should bother watching, as there was never any possibility of that.