full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Beidomon]

14 hours ago, GanoesParan said:

On the Dusty Wheel tonight on YouTube, a theory was talked about as to whether or not Laila Aybara was a darkfriend. Over 65% in the live chat voted that she was. 

This is the problem with the internet. Bad enough to fridge a lovely person, and now we have to assassinate her character. 

[SashaTarasa]

4 hours ago, Arthellion said:

Disliked

-The Tinkers: They lacked  the color I would've expected. Not bad...but kinda stilted.

 

Hated

-The pacing. I hope future seasons have more like 10-12 episodes. 8 episodes is entirely too short. There were so many moments that could have added to the depth of the show like: Lan training Rand on the road. Moraine speaking with all of the 4 before the trolloc attack. etc. They really need more episodes in the season.  I'll just also add, this actually isn't necessarily a bad thing because it means I want more of the show. I want more of these characters. I want more epic one power scenes. Ultimately, the fact that pacing is an issue is a testament to the quality we do have. I just want more of it. 

Yes, I knew something felt off to me about the Tinkers! You're right, they needed brighter colors! 

And completely agree on the pacing. 8 episodes for season 1, seems very short. 

Us book lovers really want some of those scenes. 

For those who haven't read the books, I think it would just help to show the characters better and the growing bonds they have between them. 

I dislike Mat too, all wrong for me. I hope it gets better along the way.  

[Beidomon]

2 hours ago, mogi68 said:

I'm really not a fan of how the writing team has cut important sequences in favor of filler. Like getting rid of Rand dragging Tam through the Westwood in the hopes of getting to Emond's Field (while evading trollocs and fades) - his reaction when arriving to the village is one of devastation and hopelessness. Instead, in the show he teleports with Tam and Bela to the village, and his reaction (while well acted on Josha's part) lacks the gravity that it would have if we saw him struggling all night. Not only that, but we lose Tam's fever dreams. As of the end of Episode 3, Rand still thinks that Tam is his father. There is no mention of Rand taking the sword from Tam, none of the boys mention it, and it's never brought up. The sword is a major part of Rand's identity in the first two books. He directly associates it with his upbringing and with how he thinks of Tam - it's his one link from his old life to his new one.

 

So with the elimination of that seemingly minor scene, we lose the major inner emotional conflict that Rand has in The Eye of the World. Not only that, but apparently the only reason he is traveling to Tar Valon is because of Egwene. There's no sense of duty to keep the shadow from the Two Rivers, and there's no sense of wanting to find answers to understand who/what he is. Also, he is apparently the "only person who never wanted to leave home". What happened to the daydreaming of distant lands, of carrying a sword and leaping about? The love for the Travels of Jain Farstrider?

 

 

 

How exactly are Rafe and Co getting the characters right again?

I agree but the problem is that if the showrunners devoted that much screen time to Rand it would ruin the mystery. 

[Finfolfin]

1 hour ago, Maximillion said:

 

Dude - they have butchered Lan's character.

There is no getting away from it.  He got snuck up on by Nynaeve whilst he was distracted - give me a break.  That's the antithesis of what Lan is (at least at this stage of the story).

He's more like an Aes Sedai lackey - and not a very smart one - than a Warder in this new turning of the wheel.

 

Agreed, such a great scout he just leads them into whitecloaks, couldnt even tell that a fade was nearby when moiraine was ijured. I'm with you

[Agitel]

Long before the show was ever thought to be possible, I remember discussing the mystery of "who is the Dragon?" on Dragonmount. At least, Jordan's intention on it. Believe it or not, Jordan did intend for the reader to be unsure. Mat starts having strange things happening to him with the dagger. Perrin seems special with his whole wolf thing. That was intended by Jordan to keep the reader guessing, at least a little.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Agitel

[Maximillion]

10 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

The "mystery" is a massive amount of wasted resources.

 

Agree - it was a mystery that was never needed in the first place.

Caused more problems that it was worth.

The one hope still is that there is a lot of talk about later episodes revisiting a lot of what was left out to tie the stories together better - so we might get a flashback, for example, to the fever dream. Remember in the trailer we saw what we think is Tam and an Aiel woman. If people stick with it then it may work out to be less damaging than it looks - to me at least.

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Maximillion

[TheDreadReader]

7 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

Agreed, such a great scout he just leads them into whitecloaks, couldnt even tell that a fade was nearby when moiraine was ijured. I'm with you

 

This gets near to one of my huh? things in the first three episodes.

 

3 or 4 times the way the episodes are cut create a montage effect that seems to indicate that Egwene can sense Shadowspawn.    In the Winespring Inn when the fade rides into town.   When Nyneave and her are on the bridge and Egwene is "listening to the wind".    Also, when Egwene wakes up and a fade is on the rock outcropping.

 

Why create that link when you have a Borderlander and an Aes Sedai available?

 

[Ashaman Caleb]

I totally called Egwene being a taverean, it makes sense and I always wondered if people theorized in the books that she was one. I’m fine with this, because it doesn’t really change anything. But honestly, it does slightly diminish her character and make some of her accomplishments less impressive. Before she’s doing these things via being a talented woman and now, it’s because she’s taverean? Obviously a bit of both, but I’m sure you understand a bit of what I mean.

Anyway, I get it, don’t mind it, but I can see how people would like or dislike the decision.

[swollymammoth]

1 hour ago, Arthellion said:

A lot of the critic scores that are negative skew towards the "it's LOTR!"

Really brings me back to my teenage years when I would read the 1 star reviews for EotW on Amazon (remember when they were a bookseller?) and just seethe every time I saw this complaint. 

 

Honestly, the fact that most negative reviews mentioned this is what started to get me hopeful in the first place haha "EotW is just a LotR ripoff" is a dead meme and the quickest way possible to get me to dismiss a WoT opinion. It's both frustrating and amusing to see it having a resurgence in 2021. 

 

It appears RJ was right, and time is a circle after all. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by swollymammoth

[swollymammoth]

5 minutes ago, Ashaman Caleb said:

I’m fine with this, because it doesn’t really change anything. But honestly, it does slightly diminish her character and make some of her accomplishments less impressive.

This is the WoT equivalent of Chewbacca getting that medal at the end of Rise of Skywalker. It's just a pat on the head which counterproductively patronizes and demeans the character. 

[MasterAblar]

To be honest I also really just like the thematic trinity between Rand Mat and Perrin. Not sure what's gonna happen there or if it's even gonna be part of the story if Egwene ends up being taveren.

[Katherine]

 

19 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

This is the WoT equivalent of Chewbacca getting that medal at the end of Rise of Skywalker. It's just a pat on the head which counterproductively patronizes and demeans the character. 

 

 

You did it. You went there. ??

[MaxZorin]

This show has more Producers than actors.  

 

These are all features, not bugs.

[Seraphine]

6 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

 

They are, it could be a dream but I also see it as possibly as being what was. 

 

The arches do not show the exact past, they can be different - in reality you could have become trapped in a cave and hid until you were dug out. But in the arch the way opens and you explore and learn more about yourself. 

 

Would also be great to hear that the way back will come but once, be steadfast

 

?

 

I'm still inclined to think dream, but I def agree on that last part! The tower/Aes Sedai stuff was some of my favorite material when reading these books as a teen, and hearing that phrase in the show would make me happy. ? 

[Wordjerk]

Quick thought about how Mat is portrayed; Everyone seems to be hating on his new backstory of a broken home, but I actually like it. Felt odd at first of course, but after settling in I found it to give Mat the depth that he sorely lacked in the first few books. And for those who have a problem with him not being the jovial mischief maker they wanted him to be, I say giving him a troubled past makes a lot of sense for why he's a gambler and mischief maker (he's had to be). Maybe he's not so care-free and wise cracking, but he has a cynical sense of humor that works for me. Anyway, my two cents on that ?

[TheMountain]

It's definitely not shaping up to be a masterpiece so far, but I went in with very low expectations and was very pleasantly surprised. I really enjoyed the first two episodes in the advance screening. The third episode though, I've heard it's the weakest out of the first six, and I hope that's correct...

Edited November 19, 2021 by TheMountain

[RextheDog]

i loved it, im onboard

 

my first 30 minutes or so i was dissapointed, for no reason at all its just that no show adaptation could ever live up to what happens in my mind when reading.

 

once i got over that, im happy to buy in with most things.

 

im just gonna try enjoy the ride, and only dislike the things that are underthought.

 

the biggest one for me was the leaving, as discussed earlier, was very poorly set up, when it didnt have to be, the trolloc battle in EF could have been shorter, with more dialogue or representation to the characters of why they were there

 

i also thought it went far too long before Moraine got involved, she should have been there before they hit the green, not five minutes later, i dont know what i missed, but that was not in keeping with the world created.

 

most other things i actually enjoyed, i assumed i would hate a physical relationship between Rand and Eggy, but it worked, as did Perrin having a wife die tragically, if anything, he doesnt seem tortured enough by it, Eggy should be consolling him on thier journey, not he consolling her becuase her teenage fling is missing...

 

the power i always assumed was not visible, so i was sseriously impressed with how they did it.

 

Lan being snuck up on was a bit Lame, but i can skim past it, not scouting the whitecloaks properly is a non entity to me, hes scouting front and back in the books so hes never gonna get everything 100%, it doesnt break his character in the slightest to me, he couldve been spending the previous hour scouting back and covering trails and only just started scouting forward (no, they dont need to illustrate this for me)....if anything it shows the immensity of his task.

 

theres everything to like about this show to me, once i got over the fact that whats in the books and my mind, will be a different version(and superior), so i kinda dig on seeing an alt version in some ways.

 

the casting is spot on, i think the biggest issue is Mat, but even then, some of that for me is knowing hes getting replaced so im not investing enough in the actor to get on board.

 

Egwenes facial features are irrelevant in everyway. (i know no offence was ment) you go girl.

 

Lan and Moraine in the bath worked for me....showed a very strong non sexual bond, even a sugestion that she torments him, if done right, could lead to great things regarding the characters future relationships.

 

regarding the sex, so happy they steered clear of a GOT smutfest, i really dont need that in my high fantasy, if a i wanted that sort of entertainment, there are other ways.

 

all in all, ive bought in...

 

[RextheDog]

oh yeah, and the small axe Rand got to chop the wood with.....really upset me for some reason.....seriously, why would they have a hatchet....theres stupidity and then there's STUPIDITY......get the right tool for the job as my father would always say.

 

i know i know....im all over the big issues.....

[SinisterDeath]

17 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

oh yeah, and the small axe Rand got to chop the wood with.....really upset me for some reason.....seriously, why would they have a hatchet....theres stupidity and then there's STUPIDITY......get the right tool for the job as my father would always say.

 

i know i know....im all over the big issues.....

I can't take a screen-shot of it cause you know, Amazon. But that axe is probably as long as his entire Arm.
If he's 6'-2"
If I assume Arm Span = Height, and then assume that each arm = 1/3 of his height,  That makes the axe approximately 24.6" long. Possibly ~28" if his Torso is more like 2/9th of his height.

That put's the axe as larger than a Hatchet and Slightly smaller than a typical log-splitting axe.
There's also the axe head which isn't ideal for modern wood splitting purposes. 

It is however, perfectly sized for Dana, and makes Rand look larger. ? 

[RextheDog]

thats as maybe, but Dana would be forever getting people to work for board, she should have a longer axe, she should be motivated for them to be efficient in the activity, whilst i understand your motivation to justify having a toy instead of a tool,  it doesnt lessen the impact of devastation this scene does to the entire show.

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

6 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

thats as maybe, but Dana would be forever getting people to work for board, she should have a longer axe, she should be motivated for them to be efficient in the activity, whilst i understand your motivation to justify having a toy instead of a tool,  it doesnt lessen the impact of devastation this scene does to the entire show.

 

 

What he had was closer to axe on the bottom, not the hatchet on top.

And lets not pretend those were 36"+ Wide oak logs he was splitting either.

[RextheDog]

neither are up to the job to be honest, which ever way you spin it.

 

im happy to revisit the scene though,  as its such a pivotal moment.

[Agitel]

We need a woodsmans' topic to discuss these things. ?

[Agitel]

Blood and ashes! I just saw that Amazon has a budget of $465 million for just one season of their LotR series.

 

WOT has a comparable budget to later seasons of GOT and The Witcher. LotR is just... huge.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Agitel

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Blood and ashes! I just saw that Amazon has a budget of $465 million for just one season of their LotR series.

Is part of that the purchase cost of the rights, which I believe were in access of 250 million.