full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

And I don't mean you... the 2 posts was mostly literal. I've seen like 3 people today who are brand new (<5 posts) and have never talked WoT before just come to complain about it.

I'm new here but i started with the books when they first came out 30 odd years ago and have read the entire series through on dozens of occasions across that period.

 

I was really excited when i heard they where going to be making a multi season tv show. I got nervous when i saw the Winespring Inn clip with Moiaine just announcing to all that she was Aes Sedai.

 

After i had watched the first 3 episodes of the series i was absolutely appalled at what they had done to the source material in so short a time and i started discussing my horror with posters on youtube reviews and some non specific sites and through that found this site. In fairness if the show had been amazing the exact same thing may have happened as i reached out to connect to others about how good it was. Alas this is not the case, you could have called this series anything but its not the Wheel of Time.

[RextheDog]

1 hour ago, Mailman said:

That was also stupid those torches where incredibly close to Emonds Field the odds on the trollocs not wiping out the village as they pass is non existent. In the books they had to leave because they would keep sending more and more attackers making the village a battleground.

 

 

yeah, im not defending the leaving with any real conviction, definately could have easily been handled better at virtually no extra cost or screentime.

 

it was that type of rookie error that ended up doing GOT for me....

 

i can overlook some of the bigger holes, or the lack of cutting edge CGI, i can overlook a wooden actor, or a missed subtlety.....i cant handle just lazy work, which is why the leaving (and that damn small axe in ep 3) kinda brought the show done a notch for me.

 

on the whole im remaining positive though.

[MasterAblar]

Honestly a quick mention by Moraine or Lan that the ravens were spies of the Dark One would have sufficed.

[Ashaman Caleb]

I can’t be the only one wondering this…but where are the pipes?! It’ll make me so sad if there’s never any pipe smoking, especially for the ending

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

Isn't that a major part of what the internet is for, lol? You can't be honestly wholly unaware of the concept of, "Rest assured that I was on the internet within minutes, registering my disgust throughout the world."

That's what facebook is for.

 

As a general reminder; This thread is for discussing Season 1 of the Wheel of Time. 

Everyone, be kind, stay on topic.

 

[Elder_Haman]

2 hours ago, enigmoxical said:

Sorry. I have not yet seen Harriet post about this.

She did a very nice series of interviews that are included in the show’s special features. 

[Harad the White]

Actors of interest:

 

Tam Al Thor is Roose Bolton

Dana is the Blackblood Priestess from the Outpost (and Oupost VFX was part of WoT.

Egwene is not but reminds me of Hermione. 

 

Nice SFX:

 

Lan covering Moraine as the building collapses

 

The design of Aridhol

 

Channeling

[Deadsy]

24 minutes ago, Ashaman Caleb said:

I can’t be the only one wondering this…but where are the pipes?! It’ll make me so sad if there’s never any pipe smoking, especially for the ending

 

 

There were people with pipes in the first half of the first episode.

[Harad the White]

A change that enhances the series: In the book Nynaeve follows the group after the attack on Two Rivers without being abducted. The series achieves the same end with the abduction PLUS shows what a badass she is.

[RextheDog]

19 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Actors of interest:

 

Tam Al Thor is Roose Bolton

Dana is the Blackblood Priestess from the Outpost (and Oupost VFX was part of WoT.

Egwene is not but reminds me of Hermione. 

 

Nice SFX:

 

Lan covering Moraine as the building collapses

 

The design of Aridhol

 

Channeling

Egwene is an indigenous Aussie actress.

 

along with some local aussie TV you can catch her in Dora lost city of Gold.

[WalterKohl]

Ok so what do you think is positive,  the set of emmonds field rocks!!!!  The power fight rocks, the characters fit and I hate that I kind of like that perrin kills his wife that never was....  frankly it makes the rest of his story a hell of a lot more realistic...  and he did not so much as kill her as she got in the way, and I saw a fan say maybe she was a darkfriend trying to kill him from behind...  but no I think they just created her to die...  though if they made it more it might be generally better....  

@WalterKohl
I merged your new topic into this existing topic, and removed instigating language.

[Taishar Hawaii]

9 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

A change that enhances the series: In the book Nynaeve follows the group after the attack on Two Rivers without being abducted. The series achieves the same end with the abduction PLUS shows what a badass she is.

Agreed.  I believe they missed a real opportunity to flesh out her character there by not expanding on her woods-craft abilities and how she learned them.  But I liked the Lan-Nynaeve 1 on 1 time and hope for more. 

[AusLeviathan]

19 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

A change that enhances the series: In the book Nynaeve follows the group after the attack on Two Rivers without being abducted. The series achieves the same end with the abduction PLUS shows what a badass she is.

You think Nynaeve killing a Trolloc is an enhancement over Nynaeve writing off Tam as a dead man who nothing can be done for only to watch Moiraine heal what Nyaneve considered to be a definitely fatal wound which begins Nynaeve's arc of never wanting to be unable to heal someone again?

 

One is a generic scene which tells us nothing of her character, the other is a scene that defined her character.

 

This is why critics said they have no idea who these characters are, because for some reason they removed a lot of their early defining character moments in favor of generic TV show tropes.

Edited November 21, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Mailman]

11 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

A change that enhances the series: In the book Nynaeve follows the group after the attack on Two Rivers without being abducted. The series achieves the same end with the abduction PLUS shows what a badass she is.

Shes not a warrior. The idea that she could get close enough to Lan to kill him without his knowledge is absurd, Lan is the best of the Gaidin which means he is the best of the best.

[Taishar Hawaii]

1 minute ago, Mailman said:

Shes not a warrior. The idea that she could get close enough to Lan to kill him without his knowledge is absurd, Lan is the best of the Gaidin which means he is the best of the best.

When you take into account what is known about warders, and Lan in particular. . . Nynaeve is good, but to get a blade to his throat does not hold true to the source material, IMO.

[DaddyFinn]

Is it friday yet? I need my weekly dose of WoT quick.

[Jaysen Gore]

New poster here, and I expect I'll spend most of my time in the full spoiler threads, since I can't keep stuff straight in the middle books. Fan since 1993,  probably a dozen re-reads.

 

I am cautiously optimistic; the only change that has me concerned so far is Layla. I pray they're not done with that, because if they are, it can't be fixed within the 24 months of the story.  I can see uses for it, but for now, it's still just WIR.

 

As for most of the other major plot changes - Whitecloaks and Reds a bigger threat, Mat more desperate, Logain  free on the screen - I think they will improve the story later on, but clutter the beginning up. They are taking a risk that people will stick with them to get to know and like the EF5 in order for later story beats. 

 

And a last note regarding the big last change - the mystery around the DR; I'm actually good with it, especially since I am very confident they can't change it; everything else falls apart. And for those who say Jordan always intended a bit of mystery, I encourage you to read more early fanstasy. I specifically went back and checked, and after the prologue, setting the stage for the Dragon Reborn to come again, Rand al'Thor is literally the first named character in the series. It's impossible to miss that he's the Chosen One.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Jaysen Gore

[flinn]

^ I agree. To me there was never any mystery. You read the prologue, then the prophecy and then boom, we are inside Rand's head. Never a thought that it would be anyone else to me.

 

 I agree with most of what Brandon Sanderson said. When it comes to Perrin, there is no way he could recover from that trauma in the time frame of the books. He meets Faile when Rand is on the run, so what is that? 6 months at most from the time he left Two Rivers.. So he is supposed to get over killing his wife and fall in love, head over heels (I might add), with Faile? It was too much and I dont like it at all. I can see now throughout the series I will be saying... but he killed his wife.

[AusLeviathan]

42 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Shes not a warrior. The idea that she could get close enough to Lan to kill him without his knowledge is absurd, Lan is the best of the Gaidin which means he is the best of the best.

Yeah but I did like Lan's reaction to her trying to kill him though, at least that one good thing came out of it.

[Jaysen Gore]

2 minutes ago, flinn said:

^ I agree. To me there was never any mystery. You read the prologue, then the prophecy and then boom, we are inside Rand's head. Never a thought that it would be anyone else to me.

 

 I agree with most of what Brandon Sanderson said. When it comes to Perrin, there is no way he could recover from that trauma in the time frame of the books. He meets Faile when Rand is on the run, so what is that? 6 months at most from the time he left Two Rivers.. So he is supposed to get over killing his wife and fall in love, head over heels (I might add), with Faile? It was too much and I dont like it at all. I can see now throughout the series I will be saying... but he killed his wife.

IMO The only way to possibly save this is to show that she was a Darkfriend, she tricked him into marrying her under orders, she was trying to kill him, and his Ta'veren status (ie luck) acted to keep his thread from being cut from the Pattern.  And have him believe it.  And be damned if I know how they pull that off.

[flinn]

31 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

IMO The only way to possibly save this is to show that she was a Darkfriend, she tricked him into marrying her under orders, she was trying to kill him, and his Ta'veren status (ie luck) acted to keep his thread from being cut from the Pattern.  And have him believe it.  And be damned if I know how they pull that off.

 There is no doubt she had her weapon pulled back over her head in what appears to be a swing and Perrin appears to be the only likely target. I expect to find out she was a darkfriend with orders to keep close to him (even marrying him) to watch him and be ready to kill him when the attack came. Even still, he killed his wife.

[Harad the White]

The only meaningful deviation between the book and series in 1-3 is the suggestion that the Dragon Reborn could be a woman. This one is puzzling. It throws on its head the idea that in that world there is a dichotomy between women who "normally" channel, mainly the Aes Sedai, and men who are forbidden to channel, mainly by the Aes Sedai. Why would Sanderson apparently endorse this change. It's hard to believe this is due to modern day ideas of gender equality.

Could it be that this was seen as an improvement by Sanderson. The book, from the beginning points to Rand, with a little ambiguity with Matt and Perrin. Yet Egwene and Nynaeve are crucial main characters as well. Here's how it could make sense. The idea is based upon the Forsaken, divided between men and women who were both prodigious channelers. If they and the original Dragon were part of the same "species" then obviously gender was not a distinguishing feature-the only ranking was by strength. The ambiguity among 3 or among 5 doesn't seem important, but the idea is consistent with the rules of the world. It remains to be seen how this aids the narrative, although it does nicely point viewers to five main characters, as they were in the book.

 

[TheMountain]

14 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

The only meaningful deviation between the book and series in 1-3 is the suggestion that the Dragon Reborn could be a woman. This one is puzzling. It throws on its head the idea that in that world there is a dichotomy between women who "normally" channel, mainly the Aes Sedai, and men who are forbidden to channel, mainly by the Aes Sedai. Why would Sanderson apparently endorse this change. It's hard to believe this is due to modern day ideas of gender equality.

Could it be that this was seen as an improvement by Sanderson. The book, from the beginning points to Rand, with a little ambiguity with Matt and Perrin. Yet Egwene and Nynaeve are crucial main characters as well. Here's how it could make sense. The idea is based upon the Forsaken, divided between men and women who were both prodigious channelers. If they and the original Dragon were part of the same "species" then obviously gender was not a distinguishing feature-the only ranking was by strength. The ambiguity among 3 or among 5 doesn't seem important, but the idea is consistent with the rules of the world. It remains to be seen how this aids the narrative, although it does nicely point viewers to five main characters, as they were in the book.

 

 

[swollymammoth]

3 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

Interesting that Moiraine's line about rumors of four Ta'veren in the Two Rivers was apparently not in the script sent to Sanderson and was added later.

 

Also apparently the original script from the writing team had Moiraine attack the ferry whilst the ferryman was on it and Sanderson had to point out this would break the three oaths.

Where did you read this? I would be extremely interested in checking it out. 

[TheMountain]

5 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Where did you read this? I would be extremely interested in checking it out. 

It's all on Reddit. Look up user u/mistborn (that's Brandon Sanderson) and check out his comment history. A lot of extremely insightful stuff there.