tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[JenniferL]

You can shield or sever with fewer, but a man who can channel is helpless against 13. Even the 13 weakest sisters can shield any man. Tower law also has a minimum number of sisters to hold a shield. I want to say it’s six, but it’s definitely more than two. 

[MasterAblar]

I believe Rand fled Caemlyn because a circle of 13 women can shield any man, not matter what their strength or his.

[Arthellion]

Wife is convinced Nynaeve is the dragon now.

 

We both loved the episode. She was screaming at the tv as Lan was bleeding out.

 

If each episode keeps getting better like this… watch out GoT

[TheDreadReader]

10 minutes ago, Dreamwalker said:

Episode 5 theory:

 

In the books, there is a scene after Shadar Logoth where Moiraine explains channeling sickness to Nynaeve that is used to foreshadow to the reader when they see Rand getting sick (and there's Mat dagger sickness thrown in there too, a little like show throwing sus that way). Now, Rand channeled in episode 3 and then Nynaeve had her big moment in ep. 4. I'm thinking they could show Nynaeve having channeling sickness in ep. 5 and also show Rand being sick too as a foreshadowing? Now that they already showed Mat being sick and Thoms suspicion in ep. 4.

 

It would make sense to down regulate the "big stuff" in the next episode.   We'll obviously have the aftermath in the next episode which might me a switch to more Perrin/Egwene and Rand/Mat stuff.  There would be room to have Nynaeve sick, exhausted, overwhelmed then.   Logically, I think having a focus on Perrin/Egwene makes the most sense for epi 5.   Maybe, the whitecloak confrontation?

 

 

 

[CaddySedai]

Noone has crossed any lines yet but - edging closer with some of the power level talk. Just be sure to read your posts before firing them off and all should be grand. We have a good thread goin here - no need to have parts get deleted or locked out. ? 

 

Dat rule 3. That's the one that is easy to trip over ?

[SinisterDeath]

27 minutes ago, comicbooksarethebestthing said:

No. it's clearly said in the books. Only her block is holding her back from being way more powerful than most,  yet even than we never saw her at full power even at the end of the books. All rankings are off even Robert jordan's. We can only go by what is said and the feats in the books.  Her feats are top 5 in the books and we never saw her at 100% power. We saw more of Rands true power than hers .You just don't like that Nynaeve is more powerful than your favs so i'm trolling? Sadly for you, I'm not. It's all in the books

The power rankings are cannon, and they go by each characters maximum potential.

 

Even in-books, people comment that Alivia is stronger than Nynaeve. That doesn't diminish Nynaeve's feats.

 

It should also be noted, that a woman's strength  and a mans strength are different.

While Rand/Ishameal are #1, women like Lanfear, Semi  and Alivia are the #1 women in terms of strength. 

 

Comes down to efficiency of use, finesse, all that fun stuff. Those two women have just as much potential to wreak chaos and havoc as Rand, just in different ways.

[Harad the White]

Did Episode 4 drop at 12:00 AM EST across the entire USA?

[Arthellion]

5 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Did Episode 4 drop at 12:00 AM EST across the entire USA?

It dropped for me at 7pm EST on Thursday.

[Agitel]

5 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Did Episode 4 drop at 12:00 AM EST across the entire USA?

 

12am GMT Friday and 7PM EST Thursday.

[Harad the White]

6 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

12am GMT Friday and 7PM EST Thursday.

Since those are the same times (Einstein be damned!) it must drop at 12AM GMT Fridays worldwide.

[ArrylT]

The IMDB ratings for episode 4 alone have it at 9.4 with 1.2K ratings so far.  I expect that # to drop a little as more votes arrive but expect it will likely end up as the highest rated episode of 4 so far.

[Harad the White]

8 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

The IMDB ratings for episode 4 alone have it at 9.4 with 1.2K ratings so far.  I expect that # to drop a little as more votes arrive but expect it will likely end up as the highest rated episode of 4 so far.

Building a wave. First hated, then loved, then hated again. The Wheel turns.

[comicbooksarethebestthing]

34 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

The power rankings are cannon, and they go by each characters maximum potential.

 

Even in-books, people comment that Alivia is stronger than Nynaeve. That doesn't diminish Nynaeve's feats.

 

It should also be noted, that a woman's strength  and a mans strength are different.

While Rand/Ishameal are #1, women like Lanfear, Semi  and Alivia are the #1 women in terms of strength. 

 

Comes down to efficiency of use, finesse, all that fun stuff. Those two women have just as much potential to wreak chaos and havoc as Rand, just in different ways.

 

The power ranking are not cannon to the books Only feats in the book matter. Perrin deals with Lanfear easy. That should not happen no matter what if the rankings were right, Yet Perrin still gets the job done easy. 

[Sabio]

With the series you can't be sure of anything, If Logain was so strong why are they using just two or three for the shield?  I know it's for drama but who can say if the circle of thirteen holds true for the series since if they introduce it later people might ask why were the Aes Sedai were not using it earlier.  The ending of episode 4 to me was the weakest part of the episode.  Made the Aes Sedai look pretty useless, to guard such a dangerous man with so few Aes Sedai and just warders, no guards from the White Tower. To have him break free twice.  

 

[JaimAybara]

Just now, comicbooksarethebestthing said:

 

The power ranking are not cannon to the books Only feats in the book matter. Perrin deals with Lanfear easy. That should not happen no matter what if the rankings were right, Yet Perrin still gets the job done easy. 

Spoiler

Perrin only deals with her “easy” becuase they are in the dream world/or where reality bleeds into it. He is the most talented dreamer in the series. She also underestimated him and lost focus because of Rand. It had nothing to do with the one power ranking system. Because the one power can be overcome in Tel'aran'rhiod or Shayol Ghul, the power ranking is therefore irrelevant. The main example I can think of is when Perrin diverts Balefire in front of Egwene. 

 

[SinisterDeath]

23 minutes ago, comicbooksarethebestthing said:

 

The power ranking are not cannon to the books Only feats in the book matter. Perrin deals with Lanfear easy. That should not happen no matter what if the rankings were right, Yet Perrin still gets the job done easy. 

They are cannon to the books. They are litterally published in the WoT Companion book. That's how cannon works. 

 

What you mean to say, is that they are not cannon to you.

[2RiversFan]

2 hours ago, Harad the White said:

The next thing you read is a theory. When Logain is confronting the King of Ghealdan, Elusha Salid whispers sweet nothings in his ear. This is Lanfear, according to a theory, which is mine. Similarly the "old man" running with the first FD in the series is a strong channeler in a different form.

So I've been meaning to respond to your theory, but didn't have time to fully think it through until now:

I thought at first it is plausible and a good theory - and it may still be.  But after deeper reflection, I think if this is where the show took this, then they'll have a lot of tap-dancing to do later on.  If Elusha Salid turns out to be Lanfear, then she can only be doing this from a "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" angle. 
Lanfear KNOWS that Logain isn't Lews Therin reborn (by book Canon).  So if she were to be the one whispering into Logain's inner ear, then:
 

1. They released here from her imprisonment earlier than the books (not really a big deal)
2. She either won't be portrayed as knowing Lews Therin's soul at all (HORRIBLE idea), or she will simply be trying to sow chaos (not as bad of an idea, and has some good merits as it introduces her character to audiences in a somewhat subtle / misdirection sort of way).
3. It also adds confusion to non-book reading show watchers, because now she has to add a new moniker to: Lanfear, Selene, Mierin Eronaile, Daughter of the Night, and "Moon<something(fang??)> that Hopper and the wolves call her.

Overall, if they do it right it could be a good addition / departure from the books in my opinion.

[DermidAjala]

3 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

I don’t believe he was cut off from the power yet. He seemed to still be channeling and holding off the shield, so he himself would have blocked the axe. I’d have to watch again to get a clearer idea. 

 

Jumping back to this after a re-watch, my impression is that he's battling against the shield and in response to the immediate threat on his life finds the strength to break it.

 

You can see Saidin/tainted weaves on his back before Sepin(?) attacks redirecting towards the axe blades and you see real strain on his face during the moment (while he was still pretty composed the first time he broke the shield). 

[KakitaOCU]

Thoughts on the episode.  Just the ones that stood out.
 

Logain's taint and channeling was very cool, seeing the taint slide over.  My only critique is I don't know if the taint looking the same as Mashadar is good or if I would have liked to see them different shades to spell out that "different kind of evil" thing.
 

Else giving Mat a Brigitte Doll who wanted to see the world had me laughing out loud rather joyously.  That's a lovely touch.  Made the end sadder.
 

Thom thinking Mat's a channeler is a cool step, gives him a natural fondness for Mat that will build in their relationship later.
 

Ila talking to Perrin and showing that she almost took the path the first Maiden/First Warrior Aiel made was very nice as a foreshadowing.
 

Alanna, Ihvon and her other warder were a very cool set up.  That it wasn't a big deal but also wasn't hidden.  As a side note, I was kind of expecting the new one to not make it through the episode, but he did.  Wonders if they're going to make us like the guy before later.
 

How they handled Thom and the Fade was very good.  Loved the build up of "did Mat do this under Mordeth's influence" only for him to just point out the Fade.
 

Thoughts: Kerene is still alive and all we really knew about her is she was stronger than everyone but Cadsuance of the Tower before the series.  I wonder if she'll be combined with Cadsuane.  She has some of the mannerisms and she's not supposed to be alive.  and.... never mind...
 

Hearing Nynaeve speak the old tongue out loud I never realized how much Cymru is in it.  I should have.  RJ used it and Irish everywhere.
 

All the Warders not being swordsman was a nice touch.  While the sword makes sense, the fact that until Brigitte none seemed to focus elsewhere was weird to me.

Nynaeve at the end was very nice, and nice to see we're going to keep focus on her deciding "I don't care what can or can't be healed, I'll heal it."  Will also be a very nice contrast with what she does later with Logain.

Logain probably just understands how near impossible/impressive mass healing that many people all at once is.  That said, the fact that we don't see his reaction explained means we can keep the mystery of "Is Nynaeve the dragon" which this episode clearly is pushing as a red herring.

Edited November 26, 2021 by KakitaOCU

[KakitaOCU]

6 minutes ago, DermidAjala said:

 

Jumping back to this after a re-watch, my impression is that he's battling against the shield and in response to the immediate threat on his life finds the strength to break it.

 

You can see Saidin/tainted weaves on his back before Sepin(?) attacks redirecting towards the axe blades and you see real strain on his face during the moment (while he was still pretty composed the first time he broke the shield). 

My read there is that they are having the shield be a physical thing of sorts.  Instead of the shield preventing him from touching the source it's preventing his weaves from moving away from his body.  So the axe passes through the shield, allowing him to interact with it inside the shield and then push outwards.

[MasterAblar]

I'm wondering if Logain is going to be combined with Damer Flinn. He seems to have some ability to heal, and with Nyneave healing him of gentling it could be interesting if then heals stilling. Timelines would need some messing with obviously.

 

I kind of hope not because I like Flinn, and the fact that he went to the BT not to fight but to learn to heal. And it was nicely symbolic that men and women discovered that healing at virtually the same time, even as Rand and the WT tower hostility was reaching its zenith.

[Maximillion]

The 'are they or aren't they shagging' sequence with Lan and Moiraine in the show was cheap in every way.

I was just thinking - WTF are they doing?  Why leave this hanging in the air? It seems like it was just a completely unnecessary scene to build some sexual tension on who was going to end up together. Just more of the same formula we see in most any show that deals with relationships/ love interests.  Really disappointed that they chose to add a Lan/Moiraine option into the mix.

 

 

[Harad the White]

1 hour ago, 2RiversFan said:

Overall, if they do it right it could be a good addition / departure from the books in my opinion.

Agreed. Additionally there was another male contributing to her "advice." A male Forsaken?

[JaimAybara]

9 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

The 'are they or aren't they shagging' sequence with Lan and Moiraine in the show was cheap in every way.

I was just thinking - WTF are they doing?  Why leave this hanging in the air? It seems like it was just a completely unnecessary scene to build some sexual tension on who was going to end up together. Just more of the same formula we see in most any show that deals with relationships/ love interests.  Really disappointed that they chose to add a Lan/Moiraine option into the mix.

 

 

I didn’t get sexual tension at all. I saw it as a normalization of men and women being naked without sex being the default, but more platonic behavior. Multiple cultures allow for this in world. The Shienaran and the Aiel cultures come to mind. But who knows, maybe they do expand on the possibility in later episodes. 

[Maximillion]

3 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I didn’t get sexual tension at all. I saw it as a normalization of men and women being naked without sex being the default, but more platonic behavior. Multiple cultures allow for this in world. The Shienaran and the Aiel cultures come to mind. But who knows, maybe they do expand on the possibility in later episodes. 

 

I am not talking about Episode 1.

 

I am talking about the scene where the Green Aes Sedai wanders off for a threesome, then Lan says he is retiring too and wanders off.  Nynaeve is looking on clearly wondering whether he is off to shag Morraine.

Then we seen them together in the room, get on to the bed for a chat and then it cuts away.

 

It was an entirely sh*t sequence.

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Maximillion