Encouraged or dissalusioned? Post trailer feelings

[templar7]

Better? Whatever. Or What have they done to my Wheel of Time?

[DojoToad]

Many changes.  I'm good with most and can learn to live with others.

[Guire]

Initially not super happy.  Repeat watching trailer got happier.  Frame crawling through trailer got even happier.  I have some issues but they are not overwhelming.

[Elgee]

I've not decided yet. Some things I really liked, some I'm not so sure of, but I want to see more before I make up my mind. I'm just glad someone's doing it, finally!

[Guest redgiant]

Gird your loins for my feedback ...

 

I think there are others like myself that are in shock over how not like the books or the decades of de facto established norms this teaser is. And they don't yet know how to even verbalize their level of frustration with the needless deviations and endless excusing offered by both production crew and fan boys thus far. So I will say it in my way.

 

Remind me again, which frames from this teaser are the books come to life? I say none at all.

 

Here's just a few nonsensical choices which not only look and feel wrong but have material consequences on the plot too:

 

- almost no one fits the part, or are so deviated from anything the books own words, Jordan's own descriptions and all prior art from book covers to well-established decades of fan art depict - appearance, demeanor, clothing, weaponry/armor.

 

- Tar Valon looks nothing like it should. Sure, it's a big CGI city. But what does "Ogier-built" mean here? Do Ogier build Space-X rocket-shaped buildings now?

 

- wardrobe is awful, Aes Sedai look like they were dressed by A Wrinkle In Time, all their outfits are ugly and seem made from the exact same cloth and colors (all reds are wearing exactly the same shade/material, etc)

 

- everything is too YA clean looking, not a lived-in world look like GoT did so very well and from the books WoT "should" also be able to convey but doesn't (at least not so far)

 

- Siuan would never wear that gaudy crap, not even for show

 

- why can we see the weaves? You do know there are a lot of plot strands that depend on that not being possible right? This better be "the audience is shown them, but the other in-scene characters can't see them".

 

- I am still laughing at the teeth on the Myrrdral, it should resemble an eyeless skull not a Star Wars sarlac mouth (I can't wait to see how many other aspects of how one of these is supposed to behave and speak  are either dropped or altered; bet the unmoving cloak is just ignored too)

 

If the first 3 LOTR movies had purposely deviated to a fraction of the degree that WoT has on the book text and prior established art from Howe, Lee and Naismith, then they would have never had the audience they deserved precisely for realizing the story we all loved. A giant reason why LOTR was so successful was due to treating these aspects quite the opposite as to how WoT has (from what I have seen so far).

 

People keep defending "the adaptation" of WoT.  How about making the story we bought the books for and loved FIRST, then you can screw it up with an adaptation later. I mean, this is just plain ridiculous what I am seeing, and watching all these "oh, it's great!" b.s. reactions.

 

It is in serious, serious trouble of alienating full-on any and all real fans of the book series, which is what made this story popular enough to have this TV series made to begin with.  We waited so many years and now get ... this.

 

There are way too many changes for the sake of just changing things, for no reason. I have read the series 4 times from start to finish, but I am emotionally resonating with precisely NONE of the teaser.

Edited September 5, 2021 by redgiant

[DojoToad]

I am sorry your emotions are not resonating and apologize for my b.s. reaction.

[Elder_Haman]

Sorry @redgiant . I truly wish you could enjoy it for what it is rather than hating it for what it isn’t. But you’re not obligated to like it. 

[Dark_Gryphon]

The trailer does make the show look interesting.  Hopefully this won’t be the crap that the Shannara Chronicles were.

Edited September 5, 2021 by SinisterDeath
Language

[CaddySedai]

Honestly, Im encouraged that its being made at all. I also Know many die-hard fans will probably hate it for lacking a ton of the substance of what makes it a beloved series to us all. Already there's a huge tiff about the Aes Sedai rings over in the Tower.

 

That being said I've long since shed my need for movies or series to adhere to the books I love. The Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, A good deal of the Harry Potter stuff. As long as I can be entertained and can occasionally go "Ohhhhh thats what that looks like" then I can color myself pleased.

 

Look how many attempts it has taken DUNE to try to become a watchable movie/show...and potentially until recently all have fallen short of even the first attempt. And that one too took tons of liberties.

 

The best thing I can say is treat this like a Portal Stone World. Its similar enough for you to know the regions...the events....but different enough to not be able to speak with certainty until you have seen it. 

 

The fact someone FINALLY is bringing the series to any screen small or large is a joy and I hope it crushes and we get all the books adapted ? Then we get AoL movies...and a new game...merch anyone? ?

 

[Jmach29]

I agree with @redgiant. I understand that they wanted to be inclusive and also stay true to themselves as they made the adaptation from book to screen, but I think that they are deviating too far from the books. I hope that the series will be more balanced between their artistic deviations and maintaining book accuracy, but so far what I've seen shows that is not their focus. It is disappointing, but I understand why they are choosing to go in that direction. 

[CaddySedai]

I also am hoping that the adaptations actually end up being a big tent moment for us. WoT is indeed a bestselling series. Beloved by so many all over the planet.

 

I more want the series to bring others into the fold. To make them curious about the source material. To stand somewhat on its own but also allow longtime fans to enjoy it - and new ones to find and join us.

 

There is an argument of course that "Present them as close as possible to the source and the fans will come." and I get that, but a ton of these choices really seem geared to unleash the Wheel back into the greater world again.

[Zyxthior]

I'm still neutral.

 

I honestly didn't have a problem with the trailer.  If anything, seeing the actors in costume actually gave me a little more comfort.  My particular issue (and its my own personal issue) is that I'm old enough to have seen enough different books that I've loved have adaptations that I thought were just awful:

SyFy's Earthsea

Legend of the Seeker (I was so hyped for this...loved the photos...loved the trailer...made it through 2 episodes and said 'enough of that)

Shannara Chronicles (Made it through 4 episodes before I gave up)

 

So I hear redgiant's concern and I can't help but wonder if he/she has gone through the hype machine one too many times and suffered other major disappointments:  to the point where any deviations from the book are just 'red flags'.

 

I'm at the point of "Let me see the first episode and then I'll tell you...".

[Feon Ceseth]

I am quite excited for the series. I am delighted that others will get to experience in some format the books that had hooked for over 20 years of my life.

 

I am aware that what I picture when I read the books is not exactly the same as what others picture and that the tv series is very much someone elses view, just like I am very aware that not all my favourite scenes will be in the show.

 

Someone I know is approaching it like fanfic.

 

But I am also very much of the watch it a see.

[templar7]

14 hours ago, Elgee said:

I've not decided yet. Some things I really liked, some I'm not so sure of, but I want to see more before I make up my mind. I'm just glad someone's doing it, finally!

My feelings exactly!

[Seaine's eyebrows]

I'm excited ?

 

I was bummed for a bit when the cast was first announced and I realised how different from the books it was all going to be. But at the end of the day I got over it, as they aren't going and rewriting the books on us (although I would be ECSTATIC if a certain word were to be balefired from existence (yes, I'm looking at you Mat, with your 'saidared'!)). They aren't rewriting the books, just adapting them, so the show was always going to be different. And to be honest if they faithfully copied the books straight to screen, that would bring its own problems and probably wouldn't be watchable for different reasons.

 

So I'm excited to watch Rafe's interpretation of one of my favourite fantasy series of all time, because no one's done it before! And if it sucks, I'll definitely be sad and angry, and annoyed that I signed up to Prime for nothing, but the books will always be there to be re-read, being comforting and feeling like home.

 

I just can't wait to see where the show goes ?

[CaddySedai]

2 hours ago, Seaine's eyebrows said:

I'm excited ?

 

I was bummed for a bit when the cast was first announced and I realised how different from the books it was all going to be. But at the end of the day I got over it, as they aren't going and rewriting the books on us (although I would be ECSTATIC if a certain word were to be balefired from existence (yes, I'm looking at you Mat, with your 'saidared'!)). They aren't rewriting the books, just adapting them, so the show was always going to be different. And to be honest if they faithfully copied the books straight to screen, that would bring its own problems and probably wouldn't be watchable for different reasons.

 

So I'm excited to watch Rafe's interpretation of one of my favourite fantasy series of all time, because no one's done it before! And if it sucks, I'll definitely be sad and angry, and annoyed that I signed up to Prime for nothing, but the books will always be there to be re-read, being comforting and feeling like home.

 

I just can't wait to see where the show goes ?

 

Love the take, but Im sorry Saidared is now a term I am going to learn to use as a sick burn until the end of this age ?

[bobert]

    I'm excited about WOT for the first time in decades. I really loved this series as a young adult, but I started reading it just before book 8 came out. I was frustrated and disappointed before Jordan died and completely done with it before the last book came out.

    This series got out of hand. It lost it's pacing and had too many spanking scenes. Most of us know that. I'm really excited the producers of this show are not afraid to make changes. Changes were needed.

    I am also glad they're pushing Rand back from the foreground and focusing the show on what's going on around him. We don't need another story centered on the personal journey of our white male savior. I hope they stick to that. Cutting Rand back is a great way to tighten the story line and frankly there were just a horde of more interesting characters in the original story line anyway.

   I really hope this show is able to clean up this story, because there was so much promise and so much to love in those first six books.

Edited September 5, 2021 by bobert
typo

[Elder_Haman]

26 minutes ago, bobert said:

We don't need another story centered on the personal journey of our white male savior.

 

But you're not suggesting major alterations to the overall arc of the series, are you? Because while I agree that telling the story from other perspectives makes sense, at the end of the day Rand Al'Thor is still the Dragon Reborn.

[Thrasymachus]

Hasn't changed my views at all.  Though I have gone from hoping it's such a flop we can throw it on the trash heap with the Last Airbender movie and all pretend it doesn't exist, to wishing it had never been made because apparently some people would be happy with absolutely anything no matter how bad it is, as long as it has the right names in roughly the right places.

[lt;(^-^)gt;]

I'm a little more excited after watching the trailer, because what I saw from the special effects, costumes, and sets was really encouraging. But there's always been a little apprehension about what they'll change, and I'm feeling that about the Logain storyline now. I didn't see anything I disliked per se, but I wonder what they're going to do with that, and I hope it doesn't deviate too much.

[Agitel]

7 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

Hasn't changed my views at all.  Though I have gone from hoping it's such a flop we can throw it on the trash heap with the Last Airbender movie and all pretend it doesn't exist, to wishing it had never been made because apparently some people would be happy with absolutely anything no matter how bad it is, as long as it has the right names in roughly the right places.

Bad in what ways?

 

Edit: Specifically, if you knew nothing about the WOT books, do you think this looks like a bad show? Or do you mean a bad translation to TV/in terms of fidelity to the books?

Edited September 5, 2021 by Agitel

[bobert]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

But you're not suggesting major alterations to the overall arc of the series, are you? Because while I agree that telling the story from other perspectives makes sense, at the end of the day Rand Al'Thor is still the Dragon Reborn.

No, I'm not suggesting that Rand shouldn't be the Dragon. And it was always fun that the "Chosen one," was, in fact, going insane.

I think that should all play out.

I think it can be played up better from the perspective of others and how they view his behavior as he starts to go unhinged. When we saw it from the inside we tended to lean towards "Rand's hearing voices but that doesn't mean he's insane." I think he'll come across a lot more on the edge of loosing it, when it's just everyone else having to deal with him and all the crap he pulls.

[Beidomon]

20 hours ago, redgiant said:

Remind me again, which frames from this teaser are the books come to life? I say none at all.

 

Well, I’d say they nailed EF. The Winespring Inn looks great. And I really liked the Fade and Trollocs. 

 

20 hours ago, redgiant said:

- almost no one fits the part, or are so deviated from anything the books own words, Jordan's own descriptions and all prior art from book covers to well-established decades of fan art depict - appearance, demeanor, clothing, weaponry/armor.

 

You know, I actually like Rand, Matt, and even Perrin. No, Perrin shouldn’t be black, but he’s got a very Perrin face. Eg is growing on me. Still quite exotic. Pretty worried about Nyn. Lan is too young, Moraine is too tall. But all in all this is not the disaster I feared when the I first saw the casting. Lets give it a chance. 

 

20 hours ago, redgiant said:

- Tar Valon looks nothing like it should. Sure, it's a big CGI city. But what does "Ogier-built" mean here? Do Ogier build Space-X rocket-shaped buildings now?

 

Eh. It’ll be fine. 
 

20 hours ago, redgiant said:

 

- wardrobe is awful, Aes Sedai look like they were dressed by A Wrinkle In Time, all their outfits are ugly and seem made from the exact same cloth and colors (all reds are wearing exactly the same shade/material, etc)

 

We either think very similarly or you stole my Wrinkle in Time reference. ?

 

20 hours ago, redgiant said:

 

- everything is too YA clean looking, not a lived-in world look like GoT did so very well and from the books WoT "should" also be able to convey but doesn't (at least not so far)

 

This was first reaction as well. But upon rewatching several times I only really have concerns with the clearing scene at :49 - :54. Looks very cheesy. I don’t have a problem with the White Tower being super bright. 

 

20 hours ago, redgiant said:

 

- Siuan would never wear that gaudy crap, not even for show

 

They did wear extremely fancy dresses in the books. But yeah not my cup of tea. 

 

20 hours ago, redgiant said:

- I am still laughing at the teeth on the Myrrdral, it should resemble an eyeless skull not a Star Wars sarlac mouth (I can't wait to see how many other aspects of how one of these is supposed to behave and speak  are either dropped or altered; bet the unmoving cloak is just ignored too)

 

I thought the Fade looked creepy AF. I’m down with this.
 

All in all, there’s a lot to like in this trailer. But yeah, I’m wary of the woke factor and the YA cheese factor. We will see. 

[CaddySedai]

I have to challenge the Wrinkle in Time reference. 

 

First off that was one of my other favorite books and the just…

 

…horrible…

 

…slaughter of something I love means I will never wish Wrinkling on anything I love. Lol. 

 

Not even my clothes. 

 

That said no, the outfits are not Wrinkle worthy. I would say they actually are designed as if you wanted to take the Wheel the. turn it into a game. (Which conveniently they did and we happen to have an example of. To make far away identification easier Ajah color was moved from a vital accessory to the entirety of the clothing) Then take that game and cosplay it. 

 

Done. 

 

And actually I am in love with the clothing if only because I can now make a killer Aes Sedai outfit that is Ren Faire worthy. (Green, check. Green leather, check. Chains, heckin check!) Again though this will end up being a matter of preference but as I said on a different thread - I was always a proponent of color coded dress. The WoT game really hammered home to me how much I love color coordinating with my peers and then later when Harry Potter came out my dreams were again realized (Unsurprisingly I am a Slytherin lol)

 

Further these clothes seem to allow a lot of individual expression so they are less like a uniform. You will be able to tell sisters apart even if from the same Ajah based on their own style.

 

I can’t wait to see if a any Faire’s or Cons if anyone decides to pair the “new” look with a classic shawl and see where it takes us. Cuz I think it’ll look slick. 

[Guire]

I always pictured the Aes Sedai clothing as more reserved elegant and less run way.  Colors are great.  The clothing shown this far feels more like costumes and runway fashion kind of stuff.  But I am an old guy so clothing is not my jam.   

 

One of the things I always liked about world building in WoT was that the cultures felt distinct.  There were clothing, racial appearance clues, cultural mannerisms that played into the journey and story.  I always pictured randland as highly diverse.  Castings in light of acting needs doesn't bother me too much.  What will is if all the cultures are cast as New York City subway.