What would you want to tell Rafe Judkins about making the show?

[SinisterDeath]

3 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

With Mat being who he is, I assume they need at least some strategists.

Nah

 

Because even in the books, he has some horrible strategy fails.

 

His biggest advantage is he's the farmer with a stick against a sword master. 

 

 

 

 

[templar7]

17 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

the witcher also had a lot of money, but they screwed up military real bad. it's the only part of that show i didn't like. i didn't watch game of thrones, but i'm told battles also were rendered very poorly there.

for some reason, movies seem extremely reticent to show real military strategy

Words of wisdom here for sure. A big budget doesn't mean quality... by any stretch! Example..? Well. any Micheal Bay movie. And ya, the Witcher had so much potential and resources... Fail!! Ya, enough said.

Money alone wont buy ground floor story building and source dedicated production. And even with both, the production can still shit the bed at the end (Game of Thrones )

 

[Thrasymachus]

You don't need a lot of in-depth real-life military strategy, because 99% of viewers are not gonna be experts of military strategy.  You only need enough that the plans seem to make sense to the average viewer, and have just enough of a suggestive wink at the truth to enable the few who do know about that stuff to suspend their disbelief.  The "brilliance" of a battle-plan is demonstrated to the audience by the dialogue of the characters talking about the results of this or that engagement, or by showing those battles being won while their commanders never face much in the way of personal danger.

[Elder_Haman]

30 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

You don't need a lot of in-depth real-life military strategy, because 99% of viewers are not gonna be experts of military strategy.  You only need enough that the plans seem to make sense to the average viewer, and have just enough of a suggestive wink at the truth to enable the few who do know about that stuff to suspend their disbelief.  The "brilliance" of a battle-plan is demonstrated to the audience by the dialogue of the characters talking about the results of this or that engagement, or by showing those battles being won while their commanders never face much in the way of personal danger.

Exactly. The battle scenes in "Braveheart" are excellent examples of this. They give you glimpses of "brilliant tactics" like setting pikes against the cavalry charge, or spreading pitch on the battlefield. The audience understands, "William Wallace is good at planning battles". The rest focuses on what the characters are experiencing within the battle.

[king of nowhere]

yes, this is exactly what i'm hoping to see: something that's good enough to suspend disbelief.

people jumping over shield walls to engage, or masses charging each other disorderly while their leader is acclaimed as a military genius, just won't do.

[rowdie]

I would have animated the series.   The type of animation that looks as close to real as possible.   This way the characters aging doesn't matter.  Then you could follow the books better and not have to shorten it so much.   Special affects like warder cloaks and ageless faces would be possible.

[DojoToad]

17 hours ago, rowdie said:

I would have animated the series.   The type of animation that looks as close to real as possible.   This way the characters aging doesn't matter.  Then you could follow the books better and not have to shorten it so much.   Special affects like warder cloaks and ageless faces would be possible.

Maybe, but more likely Ewwww!

[nsmallw]

In regards to Nae'blis' original post.

Please Rafe don't go down the cure word route. Hearing shit or fuck out of a characters mouth in

the WOT would be so utterly stupid. If curse words need to be added beyond the ones mentioned, then let

the writers create words rather than use the boring tripe of pushing modern idioms into a fantasy setting.

 

Also, we don't need WOT to look like GOT in regards to sex scenes or nudity. It's shameless catering to the lesser aspects of humanity. Be tasteful in your use but seeing nudity in every other episode etc, seems overkill and not necessary to me. I realize I'm probably in the minority here but that's how I feel.

[nsmallw]

On 1/15/2020 at 12:40 PM, OMG said:

I've read the initial description and followups how this is a story about Moraine and her companions adventures.  Well, not really.  Moraine is a central character but the Wheel of Time series is not a story about Moraine.  If anything, it's a story about Rand.  What I haven't read is any push back on this initial description.  I for one will be disappointed if the story presented to us truly tries to turn WOT TV into a story about Moraine. 

I think the Moraine as central character will be mostly in the first couple episodes with her viewpoints gradually becoming one of many. 

[nsmallw]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:27 AM, Elendir said:

 

Morain's visit to Adelaas and Vandene is hardly essential. We just know that she spent some time studying there and that she was attacked. Most have taken place off-page, so it can easily take place off-screen. Morain can then briefly discuss this in the next section.

 

I didn't write anything about Mat's absence in the third book. There is a difference between focusing on a character and ignoring others.

 

My whole idea was based on the fact that Morain is presented as the main character in the present description of the WoT serial. I would like to keep this first book.

 

Morain then has several acts in the second book, but nothing extensive. If she left space to Rand, it would be clear that the Books aren't about Morain. Rand is then most of the third book off-page. Viewers can find out that even though it is Dragon Reborn again, it's not just only about him.

 

My thought may have been said already but I read the Moraine focus in the promo materials to be for the purposes of hiding the fact of who the Dragon Reborn is to watchers of the show who haven't read the books yet. This doesn't mean she isn't a huge locus but I think it's important to keep things in perspective. 

[DojoToad]

Agreed. We didn’t ‘see’ much nudity in the books. I’m fine without it. But also not opposed to it where it makes sense. Like Rand walking in on Aviendha or a scene with Graendal’s pets…

[nsmallw]

On 6/22/2020 at 7:28 PM, johnnysd said:

Here are the things I would ask of Rafe:

 

1. The main photography of WOT series should be very colorful. Not washed out or dark like so many shows these days. The palette should be very similar to LOTR

2. If you do the first thing then you can use different palettes and filters for the non-world settings such as tel'aran'rhiod, the Ways and Portal Stones

3. Please do not make Min trans-gendered. There are many areas of the WOT world where they can lgbt inclusive, and I think they will and should-but I don't think Min is the character for that.

4. Please, please please! for all that is good and holy make Taim Demandred as originally intended. And Logain should be the one to fight him.

5. Use reincarnation very sparingly. It makes sense for Ishamael/Moridin but otherwise don't use it. 

6. This one will be controversial: Do not kill Lanfear and have Moiraine stuck in Finn-land for very long. Move the rescue up significantly and have Lanfear be a core protaganist for the entire series, and a weakended Moiraine who can really only advise.

7.  With all respect to Effete above, I think it is important to show weaving both saidar and saidin fairly often. It is a story steeped in magic. Taking an understated more inferred approach to magic is the wrong choice IMO

8. Completely dump Luc/Isam

9. Use CGI for a lot of vanity shots, especially the cities, white tower, etc... They need to come alive. GOT shied away from this but WOT needs to be a place of awe

10. Definitely show the visions of the Age of Legends 

11. Another controversial one: if the show is able to complete the series allow for an episode or 2 or even more AFTER the Last Battle. Show where the characters wind up and what they ultimately become ie Mat with Tuon, rebuilding a united Aes Sedai, Nynaeve and Lan (I would like to see the LB destroy the blight and N+L restoring Malkier, Rand  (Idea for post credits scene after series finale: modern day  archaeological dig, excitement over a big discovery and then a reveal of something maybe the ruins of Tar Valon or the Horn of Valere something like that.)

 

HOWEVER

 

Here is the most important one: Make the show true to itself.  As the show goes on it will divert more and more from the books. Actors and writers put their own spin on the characters. The plot will become more and more divergent from the books.  Embrace that and go where it leads. GOT did not do this. They knew the ending but for the characters and events of those in the TV show that ending literally made no sense whatsoever. The ending should have been what was best for the TV show. Along these lines, the Last Battle as told in the books will likely be much different than what is in the books. 

Min trans-gendered ? really. Please no. Don't do that to us Rafe. Any other character other than the main cast.

[johnnysd]

3 hours ago, nsmallw said:

Min trans-gendered ? really. Please no. Don't do that to us Rafe. Any other character other than the main cast.

 

Well Min has been cast, so you are safe there.

 

To be honest you are likely setting yourself up to be disappointed as WoT almost certainly will be solidly TV-MA with sex (they have an intimacy consultant) and NUDITY as many of the castings and extras require nudity and it is rumored to be in some of the main characters contracts as well.

 

Not sure on cursing. I suspect there might be some real cursing and some of the book cursing. Maybe the forsaken being from a different age use modern cursing.

 

The Witcher and GOT are the two TV fantasy series that were the most popular and they were the most adult. Amazon will not fail to notice that.

 

Will it be as adult as GOT? I suspect not but it's very unlikely to be TV-14 either. 

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Will it be as adult as GOT? I suspect not but it's very unlikely to be TV-14 either. 

Nor should it be. IMO, the adult themes have to be handled in an authentic way. On the other hand, there's no reason to shoehorn in a bunch of other things. So I hope they don't try to add material just for shock value.

[johnnysd]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

Nor should it be. IMO, the adult themes have to be handled in an authentic way. On the other hand, there's no reason to shoehorn in a bunch of other things. So I hope they don't try to add material just for shock value.

 

I have a suspicion there will be some added. I think the first episode will have a sex scene not in the books if some rumors turn out to be true.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

So, I didn't actually read 7 pages of comments so if I repeat anything I apologize. 

 

I've been a huge fan of WoT and all things fantasy for 25 years because my mom read me Chronicles of Narnia as a child, I read the Hobbit and LoTR as a 5th grader and I picked up WoT as a 6th grader. 

Sooo I've been anticipating the WoT tv show a long time & am SO excited it's almost here. November can't come soon enough. 

 

Every little bit of news that has been released so far puts me on a roller coaster of emotions -- anxiety, worry, calming down, rationalizing, hopeful, and back to excited. 

 

So here's my #1 dear Rafe request: 

Show us something real that is authentically WoT!!!

 

-- The only thing released so far that I've gone "Yes. That looks right. I'm excited for that." Had been the weaves on the poster. 

 

Am I right or am I right? 

We are SO dying to eat over here as fans! 

 

But the rest of my list goes like this [and these are more of less representative of my worst WoT TV fears].

 

A) Please don't drastically change the story in order to pander to a certain political agenda. Leave it as is and it appeals to a wide audience - that's what's great about WoT. 

 

B) Please don't be cartoonish or cheesy. Be believable. I know that people who know the budget have reassured us fans that they couldn't possibly screw this up - I hope they're right. Shadow&Bone still had cheesy CGI. 

 

C) Have really good reasons you changed or cut stuff & be open about it to the fans.

 

Deep down we reallllllly want this to be good. Bigger than GoT good. We'll be your biggest word of mouth advertisers. And all of us who are remotely thoughtful KNOW that a lot has to be changed or cut. WoT books are too big for Tv and there's quite a bit that doesn't translate direct from book to Tv (like internal dialogue). We'll be with you on the changes (most of us that is) if you give us thoughtful reasons WHY.

 

D) Continuously complain to Bezos and Amazon that they need to make more episodes for more money and make available WoT merch - that is immediately available after each episode. It's in their best interest. And, as my brother says, "You can afford it." 

 

E) Get some rest man. Just like with politics, you can't please everybody. You seem like you really care about WoT - so if anything goes horribly wrong - just blame the corporate idiots who thought it was a good idea to bloody change everything to appeal to a wider audience - and say to them, "I told you so." LIGHT help us if that's the case. They're wrong. 

Do your best to make WoT come to life and it'll be HUUGE. 

 

F) I forgive you for pronouncing Mwah-Rain's name Moy-Rain -- I recant that you're not a "real" fan. Apparently RJ pronounced it wrong too. ?

@Asha'man Shar'aman

@Elder haman @SinisterDeath

@mistborn82

@Borderlander

@Thrasymachus

Agree? Disagree? Beaten to death and done with this topic a month ago? 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[johnnysd]

2 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

So, I didn't actually read 7 pages of comments so if I repeat anything I apologize. 

 

I've been a huge fan of WoT and all things fantasy for 25 years because my mom read me Chronicles of Narnia as a child, I read the Hobbit and LoTR as a 5th grader and I picked up WoT as a 6th grader. 

Sooo I've been anticipating the WoT tv show a long time & am SO excited it's almost here. November can't come soon enough. 

 

Every little bit of news that has been released so far puts me on a roller coaster of emotions -- anxiety, worry, calming down, rationalizing, hopeful, and back to excited. 

 

So here's my #1 dear Rafe request: 

Show us something real that is authentically WoT!!!

 

-- The only thing released so far that I've gone "Yes. That looks right. I'm excited for that." Had been the weaves on the poster. 

 

Am I right or am I right? 

We are SO dying to eat over here as fans! 

 

But the rest of my list goes like this [and these are more of less representative of my worst WoT TV fears].

 

A) Please don't drastically change the story in order to pander to a certain political agenda. Leave it as is and it appeals to a wide audience - that's what's great about WoT. 

 

B) Please don't be cartoonish or cheesy. Be believable. I know that people who know the budget have reassured us fans that they couldn't possibly screw this up - I hope they're right. Shadow&Bone still had cheesy CGI. 

 

C) Have really good reasons you changed or cut stuff & be open about it to the fans.

 

Deep down we reallllllly want this to be good. Bigger than GoT good. We'll be your biggest word of mouth advertisers. And all of us who are remotely thoughtful KNOW that a lot has to be changed or cut. WoT books are too big for Tv and there's quite a bit that doesn't translate direct from book to Tv (like internal dialogue). We'll be with you on the changes (most of us that is) if you give us thoughtful reasons WHY.

 

D) Continuously complain to Bezos and Amazon that they need to make more episodes for more money and make available WoT merch - that is immediately available after each episode. It's in their best interest. And, as my brother says, "You can afford it." 

 

E) Get some rest man. Just like with politics, you can't please everybody. You seem like you really care about WoT - so if anything goes horribly wrong - just blame the corporate idiots who thought it was a good idea to bloody change everything to appeal to a wider audience - and say to them, "I told you so." LIGHT help us if that's the case. They're wrong. 

Do your best to make WoT come to life and it'll be HUUGE. 

 

F) I forgive you for pronouncing Mwah-Rain's name Moy-Rain -- I recant that you're not a "real" fan. Apparently RJ pronounced it wrong too. ?

@Asha'man Shar'aman

@Elder haman @SinisterDeath

@mistborn82

@Borderlander

@Thrasymachus

Agree? Disagree? Beaten to death and done with this topic a month ago? 

 

 

 

 

I have confidence in the showrunners. I have yet to see anything that has sent up a huge red flag to me on any changes. 

 

Casting - maybe a little too intentionally diverse but like everyone they have chosen for the most part.  Together they capture the essence of the characters.

 

Change to guitar makes sense, think the sword and dagger look fine if not exactly as described.

 

Expanding Logains role in Season 1- makes sense.

 

Elayne to Season 2 - I can see the logic in the change. They get to show Tar Valon and having 2 major cities in Season 1 would have really affected budget.

 

Speaking of budget: Shadow and Bone was done for $28 million total. The WoT is actually seriously being underestimated in terms of budget. It is estimated to be $120 million because of the tax credit in the Czech republic. However it does not include location shooting elsewhere or really SFX. Based on the base production budget I doubt that Amazon is skimping on SFX and they are working with multiple studios including Cinesite who did some of the Marvel movies as main. I would think it reasonable for there to be $25 to $30 million in SFX budget so total budget is at least $150 million possibly much more. So we are talking roughly 5 times the budget of shadow and bone. I think the SFX will be pretty epic for a TV show. Likely much better than the last seasons of GoT.

[johnnysd]

Just now, johnnysd said:

 

I have confidence in the showrunners. I have yet to see anything that has sent up a huge red flag to me on any changes. 

 

Casting - maybe a little too intentionally diverse but like everyone they have chosen for the most part.  Together they capture the essence of the characters.

 

Change to guitar makes sense, think the sword and dagger look fine if not exactly as described.

 

Expanding Logains role in Season 1- makes sense.

 

Elayne to Season 2 - I can see the logic in the change. They get to show Tar Valon and having 2 major cities in Season 1 would have really affected budget.

 

Speaking of budget: Shadow and Bone was done for $28 million total. The WoT is actually seriously being underestimated in terms of budget. It is estimated to be $120 million because of the tax credit in the Czech republic. However it does not include location shooting elsewhere or really SFX. Based on the base production budget I doubt that Amazon is skimping on SFX and they are working with multiple studios including Cinesite who did some of the Marvel movies as main. I would think it reasonable for there to be $25 to $30 million in SFX budget so total budget is at least $150 million possibly much more. So we are talking roughly 5 times the budget of shadow and bone. I think the SFX will be pretty epic for a TV show. Likely much better than the last seasons of GoT.

 

Also there have been numerous reports that the sets for the Wheel of Time are among the most epic and impressive ever made from comments made by many who have seen them. 

[nsmallw]

On 1/15/2020 at 12:40 PM, OMG said:

I've read the initial description and followups how this is a story about Moraine and her companions adventures.  Well, not really.  Moraine is a central character but the Wheel of Time series is not a story about Moraine.  If anything, it's a story about Rand.  What I haven't read is any push back on this initial description.  I for one will be disappointed if the story presented to us truly tries to turn WOT TV into a story about Moraine. 

I believe that the Moraine focus will be on the first episode for the most part. Most probably with scenes from the prequel in order to establish a backstory. 

[Asha'man Shar'aman]

9 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

So, I didn't actually read 7 pages of comments so if I repeat anything I apologize. 

 

I've been a huge fan of WoT and all things fantasy for 25 years because my mom read me Chronicles of Narnia as a child, I read the Hobbit and LoTR as a 5th grader and I picked up WoT as a 6th grader. 

Sooo I've been anticipating the WoT tv show a long time & am SO excited it's almost here. November can't come soon enough. 

 

Every little bit of news that has been released so far puts me on a roller coaster of emotions -- anxiety, worry, calming down, rationalizing, hopeful, and back to excited. 

 

So here's my #1 dear Rafe request: 

Show us something real that is authentically WoT!!!

 

-- The only thing released so far that I've gone "Yes. That looks right. I'm excited for that." Had been the weaves on the poster. 

 

Am I right or am I right? 

We are SO dying to eat over here as fans! 

 

But the rest of my list goes like this [and these are more of less representative of my worst WoT TV fears].

 

A) Please don't drastically change the story in order to pander to a certain political agenda. Leave it as is and it appeals to a wide audience - that's what's great about WoT. 

 

B) Please don't be cartoonish or cheesy. Be believable. I know that people who know the budget have reassured us fans that they couldn't possibly screw this up - I hope they're right. Shadow&Bone still had cheesy CGI. 

 

C) Have really good reasons you changed or cut stuff & be open about it to the fans.

 

Deep down we reallllllly want this to be good. Bigger than GoT good. We'll be your biggest word of mouth advertisers. And all of us who are remotely thoughtful KNOW that a lot has to be changed or cut. WoT books are too big for Tv and there's quite a bit that doesn't translate direct from book to Tv (like internal dialogue). We'll be with you on the changes (most of us that is) if you give us thoughtful reasons WHY.

 

D) Continuously complain to Bezos and Amazon that they need to make more episodes for more money and make available WoT merch - that is immediately available after each episode. It's in their best interest. And, as my brother says, "You can afford it." 

 

E) Get some rest man. Just like with politics, you can't please everybody. You seem like you really care about WoT - so if anything goes horribly wrong - just blame the corporate idiots who thought it was a good idea to bloody change everything to appeal to a wider audience - and say to them, "I told you so." LIGHT help us if that's the case. They're wrong. 

Do your best to make WoT come to life and it'll be HUUGE. 

 

F) I forgive you for pronouncing Mwah-Rain's name Moy-Rain -- I recant that you're not a "real" fan. Apparently RJ pronounced it wrong too. ?

@Asha'man Shar'aman

@Elder haman @SinisterDeath

@mistborn82

@Borderlander

@Thrasymachus

Agree? Disagree? Beaten to death and done with this topic a month ago? 

 

 

 

I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said here. I really hope we get some good merch, and releasing it after each episode seems like a good way to generate hype. I thought that Lan looked pretty good (except for the bun which is a direct violation of Malkieri customs) and Tam’s sword did as well. 
 

I don’t know if I’ve ever posted in this topic before, but I feel like it’s one of those that’s beaten to death for opinion and quickly goes away from original post suggestion. 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

13 hours ago, Asha'man Shar'aman said:

I really hope we get some good merch, and releasing it after each episode seems like a good way to generate hype.

 

Right?! Does anybody know if the poster is even available yet? 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Wolfbrother31
Misread post

[Asha'man Shar'aman]

6 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

Right?! Does anybody know if the poster is even available yet? 

I don’t know if it’s available physically. I saw some posts of Reddit took the text away so you could have it as wallpaper, but I don’t know about physical. 

[Borderlander]

I can't remember if I chimed in on this topic when it first popped up, but at this point I find it hard even to imagine what I would say to Rafe, other than 'Hang in there, buddy, and don't work yourself to death. But also hurry up and bang those new seasons out, baby!'  

 

It's a totally different question now than it was a year ago... Season 1 is presumably just about in the can by now, and what is done is done, so any suggestions would have to be targeted toward Season 2, but until we see Season 1, there is no way to know what needs fixing.

 

Advice like 'Ignore the haters and trust your own vision' might sound nice, but if it turns out that Rafe's vision just isn't very WOTy (Wotty? WOTty? WOTish?) it might be better to tell him, 'two heads are better than one, bro, and make sure to run everything by Sarah before you give it the thumbs up.'

 

As the show gets closer, my mindset is less on what the show might look like, what it could look like, and what I have always thought it should look like, and I am just ready to let it crash over me like a tidal wave and see what it does look like. After I let it all soak in, I'll be more than happy to tell Rafe how to do his job ?

 

Also, they should have a Professional Knitting Consultant to help the VFX teams make cool-looking weaves; nebulously drifting strands that look like stringy hair blowing in the wind doesn't cut it. There are hundreds of styles of knitting, weaving, and knot-tying (Google 'different types of knots' or 'knitting diagrams' to get an idea)—all the glowing threads of power (scintillating red Fire and fluid, aqueous Water, etc.) should be flowing together in real, discreet styles (or at least a simulation of something that looks real; not like anyone watching will be able to pick one out and go 'Oh, look, there's a Sheepshank Knot tying off a Continental Knit Stitch), constantly moving, cinching tighter, looping in and out and under and over, manifesting various tapestry-like patterns, changing in form, color, and texture as the different elements combine and react with one another... 

 

In the books, when one of the girls 'discovered' or 'invented' a new weave, I always struggled to imagine what that really meant. My 16-year-old boy brain just thought, Add Fire and Water, sprinkle in some Air, and presto!—new Weave. Then I met someone who knit scarves and hats and stuff and I saw how complicated it could be to do all these different interlocking styles of loops and pulls and techniques I don't even know the words for. So, yeah, maybe I'd tell Rafe to bring in a Professional Knitting Consultant. And to put me on the payroll, too, for good measure.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Borderlander

[lt;(^-^)gt;]

Taking risks is hard to do, and the results can be controversial. But I'd tell Rafe to take risks and pour his soul into the work. I'd tell him that he has to seize the chance to create a masterpiece of fantasy TV entertainment, and he'd probably regret it if he didn't give his all for project. The budget and source material he has to work with have set him up to create something truly great. I'd tell him to put in the extra hours, exhaust himself, and go all in. It's not just a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, it's rarer than that.

 

That's easy for me to say, considering I'm not the one who has to actually make the effort. But that would be my advice.

[Borderlander]

11 hours ago, lt;(^-^)gt; said:

But I'd tell Rafe to take risks and pour his soul into the work. I'd tell him that he has to seize the chance to create a masterpiece of fantasy TV entertainment, and he'd probably regret it if he didn't give his all for project. The budget and source material he has to work with have set him up to create something truly great. I'd tell him to put in the extra hours, exhaust himself, and go all in. It's not just a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, it's rarer than that.

 

Well said! I think that is one of the most thoughtful things I have heard said about the whole thing.