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What would you want to tell Rafe Judkins about making the show?


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13 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

We learn quite a bit about her, actually.  We learn more about her abilities, and how they've always driven a wedge between herself and those around her.  We learn how much she dislikes them, and how much of a sacrifice it is for her to be in a city full of Aes Sedai and Warders, where she can't escape her powers.  We learn how much she hates sitting around and doing nothing, and hates how much her talents are being wasted by the Amrylin, who doesn't seem to really believe in them.  We learn lots of little things about her character: her wit, her underlying femininity in spite of wearing boy's clothes, her loyalty to her friends, her maturity that rivals or exceeds Nynaeve's in being able to overcome Galad's good looks, and her faith in the Pattern.  And some things that set up interesting subversions later on, like her distaste for the Seanchan practice of keeping slaves and actually leashing damane.

 

If she replaces Hurin, she's not a major part of the plot.  Hurin doesn't get any development apart from Rand.  In fact, he doesn't get any at all.  He's a sycophant to Rand who's learning to deal with people being sycophantically loyal to him for the first time.  Hurin's not necessary to the plot because he tracks the Horn.  That's literally the least important thing about him.  That could be replaced by ta'veren; every time Rand feels like he's losing the trail, he could close his eyes, jump in the air and spin about, and just go in the direction he's pointing.  It could be replaced by Loial having an innate sense of prior violence and evil, which would be consistent with Ogier disliking violence and their role as peacekeepers in the Age of Legends.  It could be replaced by Selene showing up with some ter'angreal to help them find their way out.  Hurin's necessary to the plot because he sucks up to Rand constantly, in spite of being told not to, calling him "Lord Rand," bowing and knuckling his forehead and taking his least suggestion as a command, and Rand learning to deal with that despite his feeling like he's not worthy of that kind of devotion.  That's not a role Min should take up.  It would definitely make her a mere appendage to Rand from that point on, rather than being her own character, with her own reasons for pursuing Rand and loving him.

All valid points. Still like my idea, but that's the beauty of literature - it truly is subjective.

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Regarding Min....I wouldn't be surprised to see her join the main party in Baerlon (spelling?) and travel with the group to the Eye, rather than disappear for a book's worth of story before re-appearing in Tar Valon. She can go to the White Tower when Egwene and Nyn do and nothing of any real importance changes from the books, but it keeps the character around.

 

As for the Eye....I think that sequence is important enough you have to keep it, but it's disconnected from the rest of the series enough to justify some adjustments and clarification. 

 

The army at the Gap is necessary for the spectacle; I mean this is the moment when we find out for certain that Rand can channel and leaves us 99% sure he's the Dragon, and burning a couple zombie looking Forsaken to ash isn't as visually impressive as smiting an entire army of trollocs, saving the Borderlands, and preventing a invasion. This also begins Rand's legend, as plenty of soldiers saw him at the Gap (though they don't realize it's Rand at the time). This moment is when Rand stops running and starts fighting back. It's a pivotal moment and you can't mess with that aspect too much.

 

But the Eye itself is too nebulous in the books for the show to leave as-is. The fact that nobody is sure what it's true purpose is supposed to be is fine; that's a common theme in the books. But its lack of connection to the prophesies, it's lack of obvious purpose, and the degree to which it's hidden.....there's too many unknowns here to make for a satisfying resolution. The Eye is better protected than anything else in the series, including crystal swords and little statues of people, and we never know why. I think this could be solved simply by including the Eye in the prophesies and/or dreaming up a clear purpose for it; is the Eye there to help cleanse the Source? Is it there to give the Dragon a power boost in the Last Battle? Are the Dragon's allies supposed to tap into the Eye so they can equal the Forsaken and dreadlords? Whatever answer you come up with, the fact that Rand burns it all up defending the Gap makes the victory bittersweet; Rand gets his Big Hero moment and staves off a full invasion of trollocs, kills two Forsaken.....and the forces of Light are left without a weapon they're seemingly meant to have. Moriaine and the rest can fret over that loss and try to find contingencies/replacements for seasons upon seasons afterwards, which gives the Eye a degree of weight it doesn't have in the books. 

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9 minutes ago, Ascended said:

Regarding Min....I wouldn't be surprised to see her join the main party in Baerlon (spelling?) and travel with the group to the Eye, rather than disappear for a book's worth of story before re-appearing in Tar Valon. She can go to the White Tower when Egwene and Nyn do and nothing of any real importance changes from the books, but it keeps the character around.

 

As for the Eye....I think that sequence is important enough you have to keep it, but it's disconnected from the rest of the series enough to justify some adjustments and clarification. 

 

The army at the Gap is necessary for the spectacle; I mean this is the moment when we find out for certain that Rand can channel and leaves us 99% sure he's the Dragon, and burning a couple zombie looking Forsaken to ash isn't as visually impressive as smiting an entire army of trollocs, saving the Borderlands, and preventing a invasion. This also begins Rand's legend, as plenty of soldiers saw him at the Gap (though they don't realize it's Rand at the time). This moment is when Rand stops running and starts fighting back. It's a pivotal moment and you can't mess with that aspect too much.

 

But the Eye itself is too nebulous in the books for the show to leave as-is. The fact that nobody is sure what it's true purpose is supposed to be is fine; that's a common theme in the books. But its lack of connection to the prophesies, it's lack of obvious purpose, and the degree to which it's hidden.....there's too many unknowns here to make for a satisfying resolution. The Eye is better protected than anything else in the series, including crystal swords and little statues of people, and we never know why. I think this could be solved simply by including the Eye in the prophesies and/or dreaming up a clear purpose for it; is the Eye there to help cleanse the Source? Is it there to give the Dragon a power boost in the Last Battle? Are the Dragon's allies supposed to tap into the Eye so they can equal the Forsaken and dreadlords? Whatever answer you come up with, the fact that Rand burns it all up defending the Gap makes the victory bittersweet; Rand gets his Big Hero moment and staves off a full invasion of trollocs, kills two Forsaken.....and the forces of Light are left without a weapon they're seemingly meant to have. Moriaine and the rest can fret over that loss and try to find contingencies/replacements for seasons upon seasons afterwards, which gives the Eye a degree of weight it doesn't have in the books. 

 

I think they are skipping Baerlon and going from Camelyn to Tar Valon directly

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4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

 

I think they are skipping Baerlon and going from Camelyn to Tar Valon directly

 

No way. Too fast.

Episode 1:

Beginning (Gitara's foretelling) - flight from Emond's field.

 

Episode 2:

Taren ferry to the flight from Baerlon.

 

Episode 3:

Shadar Logoth and Fain's backstory

 

Episode 4

Rand and Mat's journey to Camelyn

Perrin and Egwene meet Elyas and the Tinkers

Introduction to Logain (his capture)

 

Episode 5:

Rand and Logain's meeting in Camelyn; Elaida meets Rand

Egwene & Perrin captured

 

Episode 6:

Moiraine gathers the party, they flee through the Ways

 

Episode 7:

The Eye

 

Episode 8:

Arrival in Fal Dara; meeting with Siuan

Fain's escape.

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3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

No way. Too fast.

Episode 1:

Beginning (Gitara's foretelling) - flight from Emond's field.

 

Episode 2:

Taren ferry to the flight from Baerlon.

 

Episode 3:

Shadar Logoth and Fain's backstory

 

Episode 4

Rand and Mat's journey to Camelyn

Perrin and Egwene meet Elyas and the Tinkers

Introduction to Logain (his capture)

 

Episode 5:

Rand and Logain's meeting in Camelyn; Elaida meets Rand

Egwene & Perrin captured

 

Episode 6:

Moiraine gathers the party, they flee through the Ways

 

Episode 7:

The Eye

 

Episode 8:

Arrival in Fal Dara; meeting with Siuan

Fain's escape.

 

We will see, I think they are going to bring the early Tar Valon stuff from TGH into season 1 . I do agree with Episode 7 but I think there will be some resequencing with Padan Fain stuff happening either in Caemlyn or Tar Valon

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We need Baerlon for the stag and lion I believe where the boys end up line dancing with their scary authority figures.

Fain will probably get adjusted a great deal too as some mystery is good but I think a limited explanation for Mordeth will be invented. For how crucial Shadar Logoth is to the series, we never get an explanation beyond Mordeth is a different evil, unless there's more in the BWB or the other one.

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9 minutes ago, mistborn82 said:

We need Baerlon for the stag and lion I believe where the boys end up line dancing with their scary authority figures.

Fain will probably get adjusted a great deal too as some mystery is good but I think a limited explanation for Mordeth will be invented. For how crucial Shadar Logoth is to the series, we never get an explanation beyond Mordeth is a different evil, unless there's more in the BWB or the other one.

 

Yes they do need to keep that moment as it is their last moment of innocence. I would prefer Baerlon to be there as several important things happen including this scene

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15 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

We need Baerlon for the stag and lion I believe where the boys end up line dancing with their scary authority figures.

Fain will probably get adjusted a great deal too as some mystery is good but I think a limited explanation for Mordeth will be invented. For how crucial Shadar Logoth is to the series, we never get an explanation beyond Mordeth is a different evil, unless there's more in the BWB or the other one.

Baerlon also sets up the Whitecloaks and the fact that Fain is chasing them. It's 100% critical. 

 

I think they will condense all of Mat and Rand's encounters with darkfriends on the Camelyn Road into one interaction with "the Grinwells" who will all turn out to be darkfriends. This will take the place of Howal Gode and the girl in the stable. 

 

After they escape, they'll make it straight to Camelyn. 

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18 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Baerlon also sets up the Whitecloaks and the fact that Fain is chasing them. It's 100% critical. 

 

I think they will condense all of Mat and Rand's encounters with darkfriends on the Camelyn Road into one interaction with "the Grinwells" who will all turn out to be darkfriends. This will take the place of Howal Gode and the girl in the stable. 

 

After they escape, they'll make it straight to Camelyn. 

 

It's another city for them to produce and it is really expensive. All of these things can be done on the road. Nynaeve would catch up with them in Caemlyn. I would be psyched to see Baerlon but it seems so logical to cut it

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3 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

 

It's another city for them to produce and it is really expensive. All of these things can be done on the road. Nynaeve would catch up with them in Caemlyn. I would be psyched to see Baerlon but it seems so logical to cut it

Baerlon is a location that you can film by shooting your Emond's Field set from different angles. In addition to using some existing Czech country and architecture, they might need one set and a few CGI shots. I don't think it is prohibitively expensive.

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10 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Baerlon is a location that you can film by shooting your Emond's Field set from different angles. In addition to using some existing Czech country and architecture, they might need one set and a few CGI shots. I don't think it is prohibitively expensive.

 

Like I said I am all for it, it is a great part of the story it is just my suspicion of what happens

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For Baerlon, you probably only need the Stag and Lion to be a full building whereas everything else is just fronts and you have the whitecloak encounter at the gate, drop the other one. You might use Shadar Logoth for more than one city because that one will be expensive and used a few times if they get that far.

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On 7/17/2020 at 8:28 AM, Elder_Haman said:

Baerlon is a location that you can film by shooting your Emond's Field set from different angles. In addition to using some existing Czech country and architecture, they might need one set and a few CGI shots. I don't think it is prohibitively expensive.

 

I am not sure if you watch it but The Alienist is amazing at using CGI to recreate NYC in 1897. It could be used for Baerlon effectively and I hope they use it to make the cities really feel epic in WOT something GOT never quite accomplished.

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After reading LOTS of speculation on various sites, there is some REALLY well thought out advice and pretty strong opinions. I suppose Rafe needs to tune it out and stick to his vision and be informed by those on his team and trusted advisors etc. I suspect most of the advice either aligns or doesn’t and it’s really too late for most to affect production anyway. 


That being said:

I have heard a variety of guesses on how mature the content will be.  I admit there are examples of well done less mature fantasy series (LOTR).  Often fantasy series tend to appear low budget (this apparently won’t thankfully), and often overly cheesy. I think one of the reasons GOT succeeded was avoiding cheesiness, in part with great writing and acting, and in part because of the grittiness and unflinching depictions.  I know it’s a balance between approachability to all audiences and the more mature GOT type audience, but with that recent excellent example of how well a show like that can be, I guess I would be most interested in that side of things.  I recently read an article on fansided where Rafe replied to a question on maturity rating with: I want it to feel adult but be approachable to audiences. Reading that makes me worry punches will be pulled and the story won’t feel as consequential. But we will see. I would rather this be a change from Chuck or Marvel Agents of Shield in terms of tone, but I guess we’ll see...

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On 7/26/2020 at 4:15 PM, dssharp said:

After reading LOTS of speculation on various sites, there is some REALLY well thought out advice and pretty strong opinions. I suppose Rafe needs to tune it out and stick to his vision and be informed by those on his team and trusted advisors etc. I suspect most of the advice either aligns or doesn’t and it’s really too late for most to affect production anyway. 


That being said:

I have heard a variety of guesses on how mature the content will be.  I admit there are examples of well done less mature fantasy series (LOTR).  Often fantasy series tend to appear low budget (this apparently won’t thankfully), and often overly cheesy. I think one of the reasons GOT succeeded was avoiding cheesiness, in part with great writing and acting, and in part because of the grittiness and unflinching depictions.  I know it’s a balance between approachability to all audiences and the more mature GOT type audience, but with that recent excellent example of how well a show like that can be, I guess I would be most interested in that side of things.  I recently read an article on fansided where Rafe replied to a question on maturity rating with: I want it to feel adult but be approachable to audiences. Reading that makes me worry punches will be pulled and the story won’t feel as consequential. But we will see. I would rather this be a change from Chuck or Marvel Agents of Shield in terms of tone, but I guess we’ll see...

 

I think this is a good topic for a new thread... Going to start one.

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