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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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  1. I can see Egeanin and Domon being cut, or reduced to bit characters with only a couple lines of dialogue, without it impacting too many plot threads. But you still gotta be careful; who became Egwene's Warder when Gawyn got his fool self killed? Egeanin. Who brought the second Seal to Falme? Domon. You can get around those particular examples easily enough yeah, but that's not really the point; these are things that you might not think of immediately and say "Sure, let's cut these characters." Then down the road, you find that there's a whole subplot or deus ex machina or whatever that the cut character/s were central to, and now you have to find a way to make the plot work without them. If that happens once or twice, no big deal, at best you find a smooth way to transition through the story beat, at worst you might end up with a few plot holes in an episode or two. But that stuff adds up, and with this series? Cutting minor characters could add up to a whole lot of problems real quick.
  2. This is why I worry about this show. What do you cut? What *can* you cut? Fel appears, what, twice in the books? Easy to cut that out. Conventional wisdom says he's a character you can easily remove. But Fel brings a lot to the table despite his lack of page time; he helps illustrate Rand's plans, hopes, and thoughts about his role in the Last Battle, he sets Min on the path of philosophy, he's essentially the "face" of Rand's school (despite not being the headmaster) and the school tells us a lot about Rand as a character and what he hopes to accomplish and leave behind. And of course, Fel's death cements not only the stakes but also that Rand is on the right track regarding the seals to the Dark One's prison. So who else do you use to fill in for all of that? Moraine? Rand barely trusts her. Thom? Sure he knows a lot of stuff a gleeman shouldn't, but this seems outside even his purview. Loial? Perhaps; he is a main source of random academia. But even if one of these characters can provide the same information Fel provides, what about all the rest of it? What about the school and what it represents to Rand? What about the death that proves Rand is on the right track? Is this going to help push Min towards philosophy? The show needs some red shirts, and honestly Fel serves this role well because his death, while a strong motivation, is the least of what he offers the story. But like I said, this is why I worry about the show. The WoT is dense and minor characters often have a deep impact; cutting a character who seems inconsequential at first glance could end up unraveling the whole thing.
  3. I know. But the heart wants what the heart wants. 🙂
  4. Yeah, the recovery after the Last Battle is nothing to brush off, but I don't know if it's as dire as it seems. Consider the way the weather and seasons reacted throughout the books; the Dark One tried to to freeze everyone with an endless winter, tried to cook everyone with an endless summer, and each time his effort was thwarted the world would snap back into proper shape quickly. So after the Last Battle it's possible that all those fallow fields rebounded with a viable, if late, harvest. Remember when Rand leaves Dragonmount and passes the farm, where suddenly all the apples grow? We might see something a little like that across the world; not nearly so dramatic I'm sure, but a similar resurgence as the Pattern establishes balance. I doubt the winter after the Battle is going to be an easy one, and certainly a whole lot of people will starve or freeze to death, but I don't know if it'll take decades to recover from. We have the benefit of the Dragon's Peace and, generally speaking, competent rulers. That means everyone can focus on recovery and not worrying about their neighbor countries attempting to pounce, and soldiers retiring and finding their way to farms or blacksmith anvils, etc. Avi's visions aren't reliable and are scant on details anyway, but from what little we see of her daughter, it doesn't sound like she grew up in a world that was still struggling to recover from the Last Battle. It'll be a hard recovery for certain, but I don't think it'll be as bad as all that.
  5. If I had things my way, yeah we'd probably get a single season per novel, give or take a few books in the middle that could be condensed into a single season. What we'll likely get is 2 books per season, and towards the middle they'll try for 3. I have mixed feelings about it, because I don't really want the show to make changes. I want the Wheel of Time, flaws and drawn out plots and all, translated to tv as cleanly and completely as humanly possible. But 12-14 seasons that keeps (almost) everything is basically impossible.
  6. I'm of two minds on it. One on hand, Berelain is a character who *could* be cut without having too deep an impact on the overall story. It'd save a lot of screen time that could be spent on better plots. But on the other hand, I'm not fond of the idea of cutting anything or anyone that doesn't *have* to be cut. I don't want someone else's remix version of WoT, I want Jordan's story, with only as many adjustments as is absolutely required for the adaptation to television. If it can be kept at all, it should be kept.
  7. I agree with a lot of what people are saying. Regarding the focus on Moraine....that makes sense for season 1. That first book, a big part of it is figuring out which of the boys the Dark One is really after. So sure, for season 1, or however long it takes them to tell the story of EotW, I don't mind if Moraine gets the lion's share of screen time....as long as subsequent seasons branch out just as the books did, and the show shifts into not having a main character at all. Beyond that....it's already been said but I'll support the "don't skimp the details" stuff. The real glory of these books are in the quiet moments; that's where we truly feel for and understand these characters. I don't want this show to just be a highlight reel where actors move from one big set piece or plot point to another. The only exception to that would be Perrin's plot when Faile is captured and Elayne's war for the crown. That stuff can be moved through quickly without losing anything I think, but otherwise....take the time to give us those small, seemingly meaningless moments. They add up and they pay off in a way rushing the plot never, ever will. But if I could tell the crew and cast just one thing.....it's "this is not your story." I am not interested at all in somebody's translation, or see their own spin and "improvements" on the story. Do what Jordan (and then Sanderson if the show makes it that far) put on the page, whether it was the best choice or not, whether you agree with it or not. I know that the shift to television will require *some* adjustment. Of course it will. But those adjustments should be made only where they must be, and nowhere else.
  8. In no particular order..... 1 Rand. There were times I really disliked the guy but his journey is fascinating and engaging at every turn. There aren't many characters where I can say I enjoyed their arcs without exception, but Rand's rise, fall, and rise never failed to entertain me, even if I felt like slapping him on occasion. 2 Mat. I mean, what else has to be said? Mat bloody Cauthon! Aside from Rand, Mat has the best plots; the dagger, the Aelfin/Elefin, the Band of the Red Hand, Ebou Dar.....it's always fascinating reading with Mat, and even if he's often a immature little punk, he comes by it honestly. 3 Loial. He's just such a kind, gentle soul, it's hard not to love him or feel for him when he's stuck in uncomfortable human drama. 4 Thom. He's got a great backstory, and is such an excellent compliment to the cast. There were times I felt like Thom was the only person who truly cared about Rand and co. as people, and not as pieces on a board to be manipulated. Even when Thom knew that the world itself rested on the shoulders of these boys, he never lost sight of the fact that they were still people. 5 Verin. Jordan and Sanderson kept me guessing until the very end. How often do you get to read a character over a dozen+ books, and not figure out where they stand until the very end? She's so much fun, and seems to have a inhuman ability to put people off balance. Verin's one of the few Aes Sedai I truly like and enjoy across the entire series. 6 Galad. He's awful. Truly awful, and he's not anybody I would ever want to spend time with. But he has a interesting viewpoint, his journey with the Whitecloaks feels far more organic than some other characters' journeys, and it's hard to dislike (as a character) someone who is so honest and honorable they end up hindering the heroes rather than helping. 7 Tuon. Like Galad, Tuon is kind of a terrible person. But her outlook and views make a lot of sense given her background and the nature of the Empire. I found her intelligent, capable, reckless in a calculated way, and honorable in her own way. In the end, for all her many faults, she was more willing to bend and negotiate than most of the Aes Sedai. 8 Min. Savior of the world, Min is. Without her, I shudder to think what would've become of Rand, and the world as a whole. She was always good for a "regular person" PoV, and I feel like nobody else could've provided such a grounded, straight forward kind of insight into the events of the series. I like to believe that after the Last Battle, she becomes renowned as a great philosopher. 9 Androl. This guy, am I right? Stoic, humble yet capable, and maybe my favorite Talent ever; he went straight up anime-superhero with those gateways. As much as I wish Sanderson hadn't spent so much page time on such a new/unknown character and had instead delved into the established cast, I'm glad he did because the pageboy ended up being one of my favorites in the series. 10 Last place is kind of up for grabs between Logain, Sanche, Tam and Lanfear depending on where we're at in the series....but I feel like if he had gotten more page time, then Hurin would've made this list for sure!
  9. Well, it seems pretty clear Rand has no interest in holding any position of power or influence again; it's said straight out about him wanting to see the world, not just palaces. So I'd imagine he wanders and travels, living among the common people doing odd jobs, helping re-build towns and re-plant farms, playing the flute at inns. That'd have a nice parallel with his early journey out of the Two Rivers. Eventually he probably settles down, maybe buying a farm, possibly an inn. I'm inclined to believe it'll be an inn, farming might be a little too bittersweet for him and I don't think Rand would want to be so removed he wouldn't even hear rumors of events. No, I think Rand retiring as a innkeeper makes sense. And my gut says he might settle down near the Seanchan controlled lands. Maybe partially to keep an eye on them, but also because he's seen how well they care for their people, and most of all it's close to Min. The 3 aren't much of a concern, I think. Rand didn't spend much time with any of them except Min, and they've all proven to be dutiful people who can be content with their own responsibilities and the occasional visit with Rand. Maybe it's not what any of them want, but they can live with it. So Avi and E likely slip into Rand's room now and then, or he slips into theirs if his new abilities allow for Traveling, and if he settles around Ebou Dar then Min is close at hand too. Cads isn't a worry; she clearly knew it was Rand, and not Morridin, escaping during the funeral but she's not going to try and draw him into anything. He fought the Last Battle, that's all Cads wanted from him. And Rand would have considerable political influence if the world knew he lived. She wouldn't want the potential rival, especially considering Rand's opinion of the White Tower. She'll be perfectly happy to leave Rand to his quiet life, and will desperately hope to never even hear the rumor of rumors concerning him ever again.
  10. Hello forum, I'm new here. Awkward "hi's" all around! So, obviously not counting the characters we're meant to dislike, like the forsaken and Elida..... Nynaeve. I have a bias; Nyn greatly reminds me of someone I know and the connection is not a positive one. She is a hypocrite, a bully, and altogether too full of herself. Often dangerously so (which isn't unique to her, granted). Nyn has her moments where I cheer for her (when she finally breaks through her block, f'instance) but throughout the series, Nyn proves time and time again that she is what she's always complaining about. Gawyn. Okay, the Dragon breaks all bonds and oaths...but doesn't promise to replace them. Conceptually the idea of someone socially well-positioned who's cast down just by the wake of Rand's passing is interesting. But in execution what we get is Gawyn, who's basically just a selfish wreck of a once promising person who is directly responsible for more than a few disasters. Egwene. She had so much potential and promise, and I loved her among the Aeil. But what she becomes irritates me; she never truly learned the big lesson; the Tower's arrogance and refusal to bend is its greatest flaw. Egwene was so close to being the ultimate Aes Sedai, the best of what the Tower was meant to be...but to the end she repeated the same mistakes her forebears did. Shame.
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