The casting thread

[Niniel]

5 hours ago, djanego said:

Everyone's made a lot of good arguments that make sense, but really it comes down to how the writers and producers interpreted the books, and how they want to convey it to a new audience. I've always visualised pretty much all the characters as white unless specified by RJ, but I have no issues with the casting. Perhaps the people of Emond's Field will be generally dark-skinned, and Rand and Mat are the outlier? The books are still there for us in their perfect form anyway, I don't need an adaptation that will give me the same experience as the books. Anyway, I'm super super excited for an Aussie girl to play Egwene.

 

I agree. I don´t care much how they look, more about how they act. And hopefully there will be a good script and a good director. (And CGI.)

 

3 hours ago, Elaevia said:

the most important question is do I start my reread now? or wait for more of the early character cast announcements to be made to so can start picturing them in the story as well?

 

I have been reading the books to my bf the last years. Hopefully we will finish the series before the TV show starts. We are on KoD now. I hope I will be able to keep my original images of the characters and the places when I read the books in the future. The LotR characters are still what I imagined them when I re-read, they don´t look like the movie characters, but the HP movie characters took over my original ones. 

[Elessar]

I have been debating with myself whether or not to comment (again) in this thread. It is easy to step on toes without meaning to and to overstep lines unintentionally. I have, however, decided to take the plunge and share some of my thoughts. Please no one take offense.

 

In my humble opinion the makers of the tv-show should prioritize canon and stay with how the books were written on fundamental issues like race, character traits and sexuality. F.ex. if character X was white in the books, he ought imo to be white in the tv-show, similarly if a character Y is heterosexual in the books the same character ought imo to be heterosexual in the tv-show. Mat's characteristics from the books ought also to be Mat's characteristics in the tv-show as I see it.

 

Some things obviously need be changed for a tv-adaptation since some things work better on the page and others on screen, most people will agree with that, the question though becomes whether one ought to change fundamental things from the books such as the aforemenmtioned areas (skin colour, sexuality, special character traits) as well as important events in the story. Some fans will be forgiving of such changes, they will see the tv-show as a separate entity (like a parallel Portal Stone world), and newcomers to the Wheel of Time world who have not read the books will not mind since this is their first glimpse at this fantasy world, while other fans of the books will be less happy.

 

I have commented before in this forum that I have been somewhat ambivalent with regards to this coming tv-adaptation; excited in part since I love the books and I am eager to see how they manage to show it on the screen, but also concerned/worried that they will change too many things and make it 'politically correct' to appeal to a wider modern audience, that much of the internal thoughts of the books will be difficult to project on screen, and that the end-product will not be worthy of the magnificent books.

 

I still feel uncertain about this tv-project and what I have seen so far with regards to casting and views/comments by the show makers does not make me less concerned that they will deviate from the books in too many respects. There is much diversity in Robert Jordan's world already - which is to be applauded - and they ought in my humble opinion to base the show on that, i.e. coloured characters where they are coloured in the books (f.ex. Tuon), some lesbian Red Sisters like Robert Jordan wrote them etc, and not revise things in fear of being criticized by certain groups in society. This also in respect of Robert Jordan's vision and story. I know this is not how Hollywood works these days, they must take many things into account, but it is my view though others will disagree.

 

Like many I have presumed - and gotten the impression in the books - that the Two Rivers folk are white (in some fashion) so I expected all our main characters from that region to be so also in the tv-show. Seeing the casting for our Two Rivers heroes makes me therefore somewhat concerned. It is not a deal breaker for me, the acting is after all the most important, but it makes me a little less interested in the show I am sorry to say because I am more interested in a serious, exact adaptation of the books than a separate interpretation of the books and as mentioned I am more open to changes on smaller, less important things from the canon (side-characters and side-storylines). Others may - and will - disagree. here as well. Personally I thought the people behind the Game of Thrones tv-show managed this 'balance' pretty well on the whole with respect to George RR Martin's books and vision (the changes made were not fundamental in my view), I loved the Game of Thrones tv-show, and I have hoped the makers of this Wheel of Time tv-show would do the same. We shall see when the tv-show airs.

 

Having 'lived' with Robert Jordan's world for 20 years, in the books (read many times) and half that time here at DM roleplaying characters from his fascinating world, it has become very personal to me and so it was always going to be 'risky' for me to watch this coming tv-adaptation since I have created so many images in my mind of how everything is as I 'see' them. It will be easier for newer fans and especially those all new to the Wheel of Time who don’t have the same preconceptions. I was nervous when I heard The Lord of the Rings books were being made into movies but was very pleased with the end results (especially the Extended Versions), same was the case with Game of Thrones (based on A Song of Ice and Fire). Time will tell what I will think of the Wheel of Time tv-show. Again I am nervous but I am still hopeful that this will be a great tv-show to enjoy.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Elessar

[SinisterDeath]

Sauce

[Elaevia]

28 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Sauce

 

 

with the dragons and the belt buckle..... that's awesome!

[imlad]

4 hours ago, KingRodel said:

Do the fades even need an actor? I always imagined them being CGI'd. I doubt they'd spend the big $ for an actor for characters with no eyes. Who knows, though - I've been known to be wrong. ?

 

Yes, we definitely need an actor for the Myrddraal. Doing the characters as entirely CGI would be prohibitively expensive (and would still require an actor to do the performance capture and voice work). One of the most expensive elements of modern filmmaking is actually the CGI budget, and it would probably be cheaper to hire someone like Robert Downey Jr than it would be to do the Fades entirely CG. But I do think some CGI will be needed to bring the Fades to screen, namely for their cloaks, since they don't move in the wind; the on-set actor would not be wearing one, and the cloak would be added entirely by computer. I would also think it might be easier on the performer if the skin and flesh over the eyes was done by CGI instead of prosthetics, but I don't know if that would be budgetarily feasible.

[KingRodel]

Ah. I didn't consider the cost of CGI.

 

I wonder what the budget for the show is. Anyone have a statistic?

[imlad]

4 hours ago, Polskija said:

I understood that they got this guy, Nick Dudman, who's some sort of a wizard when it comes to make ups, so I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of non-cgi monsters and all that. 

 

Here's the daily trolloc about him: 

 

http://www.thedailytrolloc.com/2019/06/the-daily-trolloc-92.html

 

Oh, and the myrdraal speculation guy was also there, he's called Joseph Gatt. 

 

That dude is significantly creepy! (He was pretty badass as Victor Zsasz on Gotham, btw). However, I think he's a bit too bulky and muscular, not the sinewy snake-like sinuousness that someone with the physique of Adrian Brody would bring. I wouldn't mind Gatt, he would be good, I would just prefer Brody. 

 

[SinisterDeath]

CGI can be prohibitively expensive, but also cheaper than paying certain actors, and the crew required to do conventional makeup.

 

Like, Trollocs, pretty much have to be 100% CGI (Jurassic park style, on top of actors in green-suits)
Cities are going to be almost 100% CGI.
Mydraal? You only really see one at a time. They can theoretically put a green-mask on an actor and just CGI the face. Or they could go del-toro, and hire a good special effects artist, but now you're paying for the artists skills/abilities/equipment/time the actor has to sit in chair... But Myrdraal really aren't major character actors that you see every 5 minutes, except maybe the first 2 or 3 episodes, and the final ones...

But there's also an ongoing issue of CGI studios going bellyup when big studios like Marvel & Disney don't pay their bills, while working those people half to death to meet deadlines.

[JenniferL]

I’m unaware of Robert Jordan ever specifying a cast list for his novels. That usually means it didn’t happen. 

[DemandredFO]

Yeah that cast list of younger versions of todays stars(especially Affleck) doesn't strike as something a creator who loves his creation would have done.

Relistening to EotW now and I hope they keep the boys' thinking that their friend is really good with the ladies and not them. I'm also noticing the sheer amount of space that will be there because everything will be visual. Granted, I'm listening so I have no exact reference but I'm beginning to see how EotW could be done in five episodes. I also wonder if they'll make Egwene an only child because but for a single reference, they don't exist.

[imlad]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

CGI can be prohibitively expensive, but also cheaper than paying certain actors, and the crew required to do conventional makeup.

 

Like, Trollocs, pretty much have to be 100% CGI (Jurassic park style, on top of actors in green-suits)
Cities are going to be almost 100% CGI.
Mydraal? You only really see one at a time. They can theoretically put a green-mask on an actor and just CGI the face. Or they could go del-toro, and hire a good special effects artist, but now you're paying for the artists skills/abilities/equipment/time the actor has to sit in chair... But Myrdraal really aren't major character actors that you see every 5 minutes, except maybe the first 2 or 3 episodes, and the final ones...

But there's also an ongoing issue of CGI studios going bellyup when big studios like Marvel & Disney don't pay their bills, while working those people half to death to meet deadlines.

 

For Trollocs I think they will do a mix of CGI and actors on stilts wearing greensuits and animatronic masks/headpieces much like those used in Star Wars for characters like Admiral Ackbar, Admiral Radis and "Six Eyes." For the Myrddraal faces I don't think they would need to do greenscreen masks, simple dots would do, like you would see on Andy Serkis' face in behind the scenes footage for the Planet of the Apes movies. I hope some of the cities are not just CGI but "bigatures" (as they called them at Weta when they filmed the Lord of the Rings movies). Don't get me wrong, I very much believe in CGI, but I believe that practical effects also have their place, and that a blending of the two is the best way to go; each has their place, and their strengths and weaknesses, and I trust that the effects wizards know the ins and outs of which to use in which situation (something Peter Jackson seems to have forgotten when he did The Hobbit movies after doing it perfectly in LotR).

 

Could you steer me towards more information on this failure of the studios in paying the effects houses, I'm very curious to know more, I hadn't heard that end of things? I did know that many were going under, but didn't know the root cause was studios failing to pay up. I'd like to see some of the sources you got your information from before I attempt my own weak Google Fu (which is about as useful as an Aiel on a Sea Folk vessel).

 

[SinisterDeath]

13 minutes ago, imlad said:

I very much believe in CGI, but I believe that practical effects also have their place, and that a blending of the two is the best way to go;

For sure.

One of the good things about CGI though, is it's harder to 'mess' up your set.

Quote

Could you steer me towards more information on this failure of the studios in paying the effects houses, I'm very curious to know more, I hadn't heard that end of things? I did know that many were going under, but didn't know the root cause was studios failing to pay up. I'd like to see some of the sources you got your information from before I attempt my own weak Google Fu (which is about as useful as an Aiel on a Sea Folk vessel).

Hmm, I might have mis-remembered it as the studios not paying the VFX groups, though it's more like the studio aren't paying them enough, and hundreds of VFX groups all bidding on the same contract, outsourcing, etc.

 

Basically it's a very volatile, almost inhumane practice that goes on. Gaming studios are also facing pressure about how they treat employees during 'chrunch' time... Basically what I'm saying is this.

Don't be surprised if sometime in the next 1-5 years, everything on TV that uses CGI comes to a stand-still as people boycot/walkout to support the VFX crew, like they did back in what, 2012? with the writers union.

 

https://filmanddigitalmedia.wordpress.com/2017/11/01/why-vfx-companies-are-going-broke/

 

https://www.awn.com/news/halo-vfx-bankrupt-bohemian-rhapsody-visual-effects-artists-still-unpaid

 

https://gizmodo.com/life-of-pis-vfx-team-explains-whats-wrong-with-the-in-1531864103

 

[Captainwilhelm96]

The RJ casting list comes from his notes when terez and others got a look at them several years ago and is more of a list of who he was basing the looks off of instead of a casting list.

[SinisterDeath]

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Edited August 16, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[imlad]

6 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Mydraal? You only really see one at a time.

 

This sentence keeps niggling at my brain, and I just have to respond, because I distinctly recall a scene with (I believe) three Fades: The Wonder Girls are all captured and mostly knocked unconscious or otherwise so out of it that they cannot channel. They're in the backroom of a house or some sort of building (I believe in eastern Andor), tied up. One of them is trying to channel, IIRC, and a Fade says something about the girls being awake, that he "itches" or something like that. Then suddenly into the building bursts a bunch of Aiel (Tardaad Aiel I believe, led by Rhuarc, and including Aviendha IIRC) who open up a can of whoop-arse on the Myrddraal and their Darkfriend mercenaries, and rescue the "Aes Sedai" captured in the back room. I'm pretty sure this happens in The Dragon Reborn. 

 

This would be a tricky scene to film, of course, if I'm correct in my recollection that all Fades look like one another. But if the amazing Orphan Black could do the Clone Dance Party in season two, and do that for BBC America, then a show for Amazon Prime should have the ability to pull this scene off, especially in its second or third season. (NOTE: if you have not watched Orphan Black you are like SERIOUSLY MISSING OUT on one of the better SF shows of the past decade, and easily the best perfomances by a female actor on television in I don't know, probably forever; Tatiana Maslany is a gift to mankind she is so frakking talented. I just have to figure out the right role for her in The Wheel of Time, which is tough, because she physically doesn't match any of my mental images of any of the characters, but she is literally talented enough to play all of them, including Rand al'Thor).

 

Of course that is the first time we see multiple Myrddraal together at the same time, that I can remember at least. Later on during larger battles we'll see more, but that's further down the line when Jeff Bezos is gonna be like "take all the money" (knock on wood!) and Rafe can just go wild on VFX and set pieces and such.

Edited August 16, 2019 by imlad
add link for Clone Dance Party video (MUST WATCH AWESOMENESS!)

[imlad]

22 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

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*hangs head in shame* 

 

Yessir.

 

*shuffles away, embarrased*

[Jaglover]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

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I would like to make a comment that is far more to do with the commercial aspects of the show than the politics.

 

I was around on westeros.org back in the early days of GOT and I doubt we would have ever needed a reminder like the one above because we never needed to discuss politics (as I remember). They simply tried to perform as faithful adaptation as they could of the source material (before they ran out of books and it all went wrong). Where a character was black, mixed race or other they were such on the show. When they were gay the same. GOT is one of the most successful shows of all time.

 

If you do not make your show political you have 100% of a potential audience. If you choose to make it political you may restrict it to 50% of a potential audience.  

[KingRodel]

8 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

I was around on westeros.org back in the early days of GOT and I doubt we would have ever needed a reminder like the one above because we never needed to discuss politics (as I remember). They simply tried to perform as faithful adaptation as they could of the source material (before they ran out of books and it all went wrong). Where a character was black, mixed race or other they were such on the show. When they were gay the same. GOT is one of the most successful shows of all time.

 

...And when the books described horrifying amounts of violence, sex, and language, they kept it the same.

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Y'all GOTers have stronger stomachs than me. Gosh I hope WoT keeps it at least TV-14 level.

 

Unrelated, who does everyone think is going to be the next character to be cast? Who do you hope will be cast next?

[wotfan4472]

My only concern with this show, and this is something everyone should be mindful of, is if the show says Egwene is the Dragon Reborn. That to me is botching the show. I have no issues with the casting decisions. I am more worried about  the world and its mechanics like the One Power and how the characters interact with the world around them. Particularly if they make Egwene the Dragon, which completely turns the story inside out.

 

That causes a snowball effect on the whole story, and kills the product when the audience goes to the books to see how they did it there. Particularly after the show ends. How it performs affects any other take on the story in other mediums like animation or video games.

 

We have seen a lot of those projects that have been anywhere from brilliant, to average, to awful and everywhere in between.

 

I have my hopes for the show, but that scenario above is my biggest worry. 

 

As for next casting announcement, I need Lan. How his actor works on screen makes or breaks Moiraine and Nynaeve both.

Edited August 16, 2019 by wotfan4472

[SinisterDeath]

42 minutes ago, wotfan4472 said:

My only concern with this show, and this is something everyone should be mindful of, is if the show says Egwene is the Dragon Reborn. That to me is botching the show. I have no issues with the casting decisions. I am more worried about  the world and its mechanics like the One Power and how the characters interact with the world around them. Particularly if they make Egwene the Dragon, which completely turns the story inside out.

For sure!

 

They totally changed the new Pet Cemetery movie. Kinda ruined it for me.

 

 

[Zorlon]

48 minutes ago, wotfan4472 said:

My only concern with this show, and this is something everyone should be mindful of, is if the show says Egwene is the Dragon Reborn. That to me is botching the show. I have no issues with the casting decisions. I am more worried about  the world and its mechanics like the One Power and how the characters interact with the world around them. Particularly if they make Egwene the Dragon, which completely turns the story inside out.

 

That causes a snowball effect on the whole story, and kills the product when the audience goes to the books to see how they did it there. Particularly after the show ends. How it performs affects any other take on the story in other mediums like animation or video games.

 

We have seen a lot of those projects that have been anywhere from brilliant, to average, to awful and everywhere in between.

 

I have my hopes for the show, but that scenario above is my biggest worry. 

 

As for next casting announcement, I need Lan. How his actor works on screen makes or breaks Moiraine and Nynaeve both.

Is Egwene as Dragon a thing which has even been hinted at? 

 

It wouldnt necessarily be terrible, or even out of linec with prior worldbuilding-Jordan did once say there is also a female Dragon soul-, but from Dragonmount to the Eye, and everything afterwards, so much would have to be changed that it wouldnt really be the same story anymore and Rand kind of becomes as narratively pointless as the 4th boy on the cover of TEotW.

[DemandredFO]

They can't now but the fact that Egwene had magical mystery sisters mentioned once and then never again, plus her almost understanding the old tongue, hints at Jordan toying with a different path for Egwene.

[KlingonsOnTheRoof]

Loved the passage they used to announce the cast.

"It's about a man/woman/hero...". 

 

Almost makes me want to sign up for a Twitter account. 

 

As long as Rand is a redhead, Nayneve has a braid and Thom has mustaches, I'm good. Perrin needs a little bulking up but that seems easy to fix. 

[Goathill]

20 hours ago, KingRodel said:

...And when the books described horrifying amounts of violence, sex, and language, they kept it the same.

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Y'all GOTers have stronger stomachs than me. Gosh I hope WoT keeps it at least TV-14 level.

 

Unrelated, who does everyone think is going to be the next character to be cast? Who do you hope will be cast next?

 

I've read both.

 

I've always thought WoT was darker and for that matter has more sex than GoT. The language just isn't as graphic.

 

There is lots of sex and lots of nudity. There is torture, rape and, graphic violence.

 

It doesn't get much darker than.       Asha'man kill! 

[mactwist2]

45 minutes ago, Goathill said:

 

I've read both.

 

I've always thought WoT was darker and for that matter has more sex than GoT. The language just isn't as graphic.

 

There is lots of sex and lots of nudity. There is torture, rape and, graphic violence.

 

It doesn't get much darker than.       Asha'man kill! 

 

I've only read the first two so far but it doesn't seem overly dark. I hope your right though as I'd rather it be mature than young adultish. It doesn't have to be smut obviously lol but when I think of times with swords and such I think of a gritty way of living. Obviously its fantasy but it's based somewhat on reality and back in them days if you lived to 40 you were the exception. Things moved quicker because you didnt have as much time. I dont know what I'm rambling about I just hope its good.