The Wheel of Time Will Be Adapted as a TV Series

[DemandredFO]

Watchers would be bored to tears if Egwene got anywhere near the amount of screen, especially later books when all of her screen time is politics.

[Dagon Thyne]

1 hour ago, DemandredFO said:

Watchers would be bored to tears if Egwene got anywhere near the amount of screen, especially later books when all of her screen time is politics.

Which is why I think they will drop her "Flame of Tar Valon" BS, and have Logain, Androl, and the Asha'man be the ones who battle Taim.  

[Polskija]

From one of the Rafe's tweets I got the understanding that "some parts of the EotW" will come in the later seasons. This might mean the prologue, when Rand and Lews Therin start to coexist more. 

 

Again, who knows? 

[Jaglover]

12 hours ago, Beidomon said:

A lot of what I’m reading from Rafe sounds pretty encouraging, but then there’s this: his favorite character is... Egwene? Crap. Well let’s keep our fingers crossed. 

 

As I read back through this loooong thread, a couple of things surprised me. I expected most of the fans to want a more faithful 1:1 book:season adaptation - which is nuts, but actually a lot of people go the total opposite route of seriously suggesting Books 1 and 2 and even 3 ought to be packed into one season, which is equally nuts. 

 

Heres the deal: Books 1-6 had a few soft spots, but overall were a masterpiece. Those books need 4 seasons. 1 for EOTW, 1 for TGH and TDR (believe it or not, about half of TDR can be cut and a season starting with the hunt and ending with Rand drawing the sword would be be great), 1 season for TSR (single best book of the series, hands down), and 1 season for FOH and LOC. 

 

After that, would finish off the rest of the series with maybe 2-3 more seasons.

 

Another thing that shocked me were the suggestions that Season 1 ought to skip the prologue. Are you nuts?!?! Hey, I know that Red Eagle.... thing.... left a bad taste in people’s mouths, but the prologue sets the tone for the entire series! It’s amazing. If Rafe does one thing right, it is to start the show with the prologue as a cold open, and then have the formation of Dragonmount merge into the title sequence.

 

 

Egwene isn't my most interesting character but she isn't terrible, she could also be adapted to be less annoying. If Rafe is pushing the strong women angle than she is a natural choice to be one of his focuses and yes they will no doubt skip much of the political stuff in later books.

 

In terms of adaption there are fourteen books in this series and you appear to be suggesting that eight of them can be covered in two to three seasons. Yes they were very drawn out, and have large sections that can be cut out, but the end three are action packed.

 

To me books three, four and five are the true gold. It starts a bit slow with EOTW, before RJ has found his style and starts to get going in The Great Hunt when we meet the Seanchen. 

 

To me a first season that went through EOTW and large chunks of the Great Hunt would be fine. Leaving space for other books in later seasons, what we don't want is the GOT situation of a faithful adaptation of the first three books and then a race to the finish line. There are very important themes in the later books that need proper time to develop. 

 

Agreed as well that the Prologue is a great opening scene and properly establishes the power of magic in this world before anyone gets going. 

[Beidomon]

I agree that the last three books were action packed, but a lot of it kind of read like fan fiction (no offense to BS, who did a remarkable job) and didn't seem terribly necessary. For example all the Perrin/Slayer stuff. I think the series would have far, far stronger (not the least of which because it would been finished by RJ himself!!) if he moved more quickly from Dumai's Wells toward The Last Battle.

 

This is an area where I think the TV series can improve. Let's be honest, if you only had 7-8 seasons to tell this story (and that's probably the max, right?) - where would you want to spend the time? I think it is virtually indisputable that books 1-6 are far stronger than books 7-14 and deserve more than 50% of the screen time.

[Beidomon]

8 hours ago, Polskija said:

From one of the Rafe's tweets I got the understanding that "some parts of the EotW" will come in the later seasons. This might mean the prologue, when Rand and Lews Therin start to coexist more. 

 

Right, I've read that, but I really don't see what narrative purpose it serves to sprinkle the prologue in at a later point. I think it would be a big mistake not to use the prologue as RJ did - a kickass opportunity to show the audience what this story is all about. The Dragon, Ishamael, the tainting and associated madness of Saidin, the Breaking, the turning of ages... the Prologue perfectly introduces all of this. It's a no-brainer to use the Prologue as a cold open for the show.

[Jaglover]

47 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

I agree that the last three books were action packed, but a lot of it kind of read like fan fiction (no offense to BS, who did a remarkable job) and didn't seem terribly necessary. For example all the Perrin/Slayer stuff. I think the series would have far, far stronger (not the least of which because it would been finished by RJ himself!!) if he moved more quickly from Dumai's Wells toward The Last Battle.

 

This is an area where I think the TV series can improve. Let's be honest, if you only had 7-8 seasons to tell this story (and that's probably the max, right?) - where would you want to spend the time? I think it is virtually indisputable that books 1-6 are far stronger than books 7-14 and deserve more than 50% of the screen time.

 

Well most of it seems necessary as it wraps up elements introduced from earlier books, but I don't think we are a massively apart on this. You have eight books after book 6, books seven through eleven are very slow paced but with some interesting set pieces, scenes and character development. Books twelve through fourteen are clearly by another author and how well you get on with them depends on how you handle that shift, but are far faster paced. If we were to say four and half seasons for the first six books and then three and a half for the remainder than that probably represents the balance of core plot progression over the whole series.

 

Even four and half seasons for the first six books though argues against allocating an entire season to EOTW, because later books in the first six have more locations and more going on, with everyone having their own separate missions. 

 

 

[Jaglover]

40 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

 

Right, I've read that, but I really don't see what narrative purpose it serves to sprinkle the prologue in at a later point. I think it would be a big mistake not to use the prologue as RJ did - a kickass opportunity to show the audience what this story is all about. The Dragon, Ishamael, the tainting and associated madness of Saidin, the Breaking, the turning of ages... the Prologue perfectly introduces all of this. It's a no-brainer to use the Prologue as a cold open for the show.

Thinking about elements that could be left to later

 

Introduction of Min?, is one example

 

It doesn't necessarily mean no prologue 

 

[Elgee]

We have to have the prologue. It's The Big Clue.

[HispAnakin]

On 7/6/2019 at 3:49 PM, Dagon Thyne said:

Which is why I think they will drop her "Flame of Tar Valon" BS, and have Logain, Androl, and the Asha'man be the ones who battle Taim.  

 

that would be horrible..why is 'Flame of Tar Valon' 'BS' but Asha'man ok? its cant be because...wait..she's a girl??

 

She had THE BEST 'I'm going out like a MFING CHAMP ending in the entire book. She WAS the Amyrlin Seat in all it's Glory. Her battle with Taim will DRIVE the show. its going to be 2020 this will resonate incredibly with fans.

[DemandredFO]

Logain and the Ashaman need something more important to do which will likely happen. One reason, other than sexism, for some not to like the flame of Tar Valon is Brandon wrote it and for some, everything he wrote is trash and everything RJ wrote, no matter how boring, is fantastic

 

[Jaglover]

6 minutes ago, DemandredFO said:

Logain and the Ashaman need something more important to do which will likely happen. One reason, other than sexism, for some not to like the flame of Tar Valon is Brandon wrote it and for some, everything he wrote is trash and everything RJ wrote, no matter how boring, is fantastic

 

Well also Egwene often attracts dislike on this forum that seems specific to her and not to the female characters in general.

 

Logain and co need more to do in the Final battle, but that shouldn't be at the expense of one of the main characters 

 

[DemandredFO]

Egwene also needs something to blow up in her face too because she's too perfect. Everything she tries she succeeds at.

[Dagon Thyne]

On 7/9/2019 at 10:19 AM, HispAnakin said:

 

that would be horrible..why is 'Flame of Tar Valon' 'BS' but Asha'man ok? its cant be because...wait..she's a girl??

 

She had THE BEST 'I'm going out like a MFING CHAMP ending in the entire book. She WAS the Amyrlin Seat in all it's Glory. Her battle with Taim will DRIVE the show. its going to be 2020 this will resonate incredibly with fans.

 

Two reasons..

 

1; I think the "Flame of Tar Valon" was a BS way to just counter balefire, which by it's very nature should be irreversable.  Balefire literally burns things out of existance.  There shouldn't be a weave which just "unburns" things.  The wheel of time literally had to blend Rand and Moridin's souls together because of their use of balefire on each other, but somehow there just happens to be a weave that can just undo it's effects?  It's a cop out.    

 

2; It would be far more poetic for Logain and Androl, and the Asha'man to be the ones to defeat Taim, since they both spend a good portion of the last three books fighting against him and his dreadlords.  There are plenty of other powerful forsaken that Egwene could fight.  She had almost no interactions at all with Taim throughout the series, but somehow she ends up being the one who takes him out?  

It just seems to be that it robbed the true Asha'man of the chance to bring justice to the one who tried to destroy the black tower, just to give egwene a moment which could have easly been done with ANY of the other Forsaken.

[Jaglover]

On 7/15/2019 at 11:53 AM, Dagon Thyne said:

 

2; It would be far more poetic for Logain and Androl, and the Asha'man to be the ones to defeat Taim, since they both spend a good portion of the last three books fighting against him and his dreadlords.  There are plenty of other powerful forsaken that Egwene could fight.  She had almost no interactions at all with Taim throughout the series, but somehow she ends up being the one who takes him out?  

It just seems to be that it robbed the true Asha'man of the chance to bring justice to the one who tried to destroy the black tower, just to give egwene a moment which could have easly been done with ANY of the other Forsaken.

 

That's a fair point, thematically it would have been better and the Asha'man do very little at the final battle. 

 

Then Egwene could take out Demandred and avoid the rather silly three duels in the middle of a battle. 

 

 

[DemandredFO]

If it gets that far, I see Mat taking taking out Demandred being the light's general but really I think the later books will be rearranged quite a bit since books 7-11 occur at basically the same time. Book 14, even though Brandon is my favorite author is a bit of a mess, which I think has more to do with lack of notes and other constraints. Also you either have to drop the Sharans or drop other things and give slightly more background earlier

[Dagon Thyne]

On 7/9/2019 at 10:19 AM, HispAnakin said:

 

that would be horrible..why is 'Flame of Tar Valon' 'BS' but Asha'man ok? its cant be because...wait..she's a girl??

 

She had THE BEST 'I'm going out like a MFING CHAMP ending in the entire book. She WAS the Amyrlin Seat in all it's Glory. Her battle with Taim will DRIVE the show. its going to be 2020 this will resonate incredibly with fans.

It's because for the better part of three books, Logan and Androl were fighting against Taim.  It felt completely wrong for them to have no part in his defeat just to give Egwene, who has almost no contact with him at all, something to do.  They could have easily had Egwene fight one of the other Forsaken and left Taim and his dreadlords for Logain and the Asha'man, who had been the only ones actively opposing him from the start.  

 

And the reason I hate the flame of tar valon story arc is because it feels like they are just threw out the entire concept of balefire.  Balefire is supposed to literally born away threads of the pattern.  There shouldn't be a weave that reverses it.  

[Pandemonium]

8 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

It's because for the better part of three books, Logan and Androl were fighting against Taim.  It felt completely wrong for them to have no part in his defeat just to give Egwene, who has almost no contact with him at all, something to do.  They could have easily had Egwene fight one of the other Forsaken and left Taim and his dreadlords for Logain and the Asha'man, who had been the only ones actively opposing him from the start.  

 

And the reason I hate the flame of tar valon story arc is because it feels like they are just threw out the entire concept of balefire.  Balefire is supposed to literally born away threads of the pattern.  There shouldn't be a weave that reverses it.  

wot is all about balance.  nothing goes unopposed.  to accept that balefire, the chaos force, is unopposed would mean there is no higher unifying force.  that would be counter to the patter, the creator, the yin yang and everything wot stands for.  I thing RJ planned this early on and it is nice to finally know the meaning of the flame of the aes sedai.

[Dagon Thyne]

3 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

wot is all about balance.  nothing goes unopposed.  to accept that balefire, the chaos force, is unopposed would mean there is no higher unifying force.  that would be counter to the patter, the creator, the yin yang and everything wot stands for.  I thing RJ planned this early on and it is nice to finally know the meaning of the flame of the aes sedai.

 

Yes, but it also destroys the entire mythos created around balefire, and the reason it's feared.  Even the shadow hesitates to use it because of the danger it poses.  

 

 

[wotfan4472]

Except the flame of tar valon is the discovery in this conflict. It perfectly balances the discovery of balefire in the War of Power. While the discovery of one weave undid an Age's achievements, it makes perfect sense for the discovery of the other weave to preserve the current Age's achievements, further showing the theme of balance. 

 

Logain's saving those innocents is the perfect way to redeem the Asha'man, in addition to being Sealbreaker, which is a critical moment.  The seals situation is also of the theme of balance and must be included as is, since it is the summing up of the history of mistakes that have been made by the Aes Sedai over 3000 years.

 

If Egwene needs a Forsaken to fight against, then I suggest Mesaana surviving to the Last Battle, since she is the perfect foil for Egwene. 

 

The three duels is critical to the Last Battle, since Demandred dominates the fight entirely, except when distracted, which the duels provide. If done well, Lan's duel could easily beat Vader's and Kenobi's duel.

 

Logain, I agree should be the one to take down Taim, by fighting him instead of Logain fighting Demandred.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by wotfan4472

[RDY]

On 5/28/2019 at 6:59 PM, RDY said:

I wonder if they'll keep the part about Two Rivers people not being lily-white, race-wise. I mean, Rand says he's surprised to see someone with blonde hair for the first time in his life when he meets Else Grimwell's mother. And some people bullied him because he had grey eyes, which only peddlers or other foreigners had, no Two Rivers person had that. 

 

I wonder how the fandom will react to having lots of Latinos or Middle Easterners for the main cast, for example (not Rand, since he's clearly a foreigners, but basically everyone else in the Two Rivers). 

 

Just quoting this to say that some part of fandom did react very badly, but I'm proud how the other part of fandom is slowly being aware that the text actually supports the nonwhite Two Rivers cast.

[ferrasa]

We are weeks away from even the start of the filming, but I see more and more and more comments like these: they should write their own story and film it; if you don't like the story why don't you read or write a different one rather than butcher a beloved one; I definitely won't be watching the show; "Representation is a real an needed thing." Then write your own book; I won't be watching - the makers of the show should think about the criticism, and change their plan, if there's any except we'll rewrite the novels to our taste and belief and sexuality.

Edited August 21, 2019 by ferrasa

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, ferrasa said:

We are weeks away from even the start of the filming, but I see more and more and more comments like these: they should write their own story and film it; if you don't like the story why don't you read or write a different one rather than butcher a beloved one; I definitely won't be watching the show; "Representation is a real an needed thing." Then write your own book; I won't be watching - the makers of the show should think about the criticism, and change their plan, if there's any except we'll rewrite the novels to our taste and belief and sexuality.

[DemandredFO]

Okay, I tried. The Brandon hate was the reason I stayed away from dragonmount, maybe this time will be over idiots arguing the difference between light black and dark white, all the while proclaiming I am not a racist.

[JenniferL]

Posts deleted. We are not discussing casting until they announce more actors.