Tarmon Gai´don Mafia Part 1 - Tel´aran´rhiod

[Talmanes]

@BFG - There's a big difference. I'm not a fan of Day 1, there is usually a lot of spam, joke votes, and not much to go on. I found not one but two strong suspects and I wanted to make sure one of them went down. At the time I didn't realize it was a hybrid hammer either.

 

I'll openly admit (in fact I believe I posted saying as much) that I was ready for D1 to be over. Right now, however, we are getting a wealth of actual discussion instead of spam, jokes, and ridiculous arguments, so I see the time as a bit more valuable.

 

That said, I'm locked in on my second target and ready for the lynch. The question is how much more information and discussion we can get before it happens.

[dicetosser1]

 

Well then the quickest way to resolve this and move forward with the game is to get my lynch and keep going.

 

[unvote] [v] RTE [/v] 

 

I'm just thinking you're bluffing and trying to get people off your wagon this way.

 

I'm not jumping off.

 

 

 

Also, if we get a majority before deadline, that means we lose discussion time. You want that?

 

Eh the discussion has stalled because everyone is content to pile onto my train. Which is fair enough. Like I said I think we should be making the most of Day 2 as I know this is going to be a mislynch. But at this point hard to look past my lynch. So I just figure people need to see my flip and move on.

 

 

Really? EVERYONE was ready to pile on you?  Wrong. I wasnt going to. Your foot in mouth disease is saving you for me cause I think Mafia wouldve put a choker chain on you by now.

 

You self vote however makes me want to vote you. It definetly comes off as a tactic

 

 

Also, you still haven't answered my question. What changed your opinion on Talmanes?

 

Him being on Zander from the start of day. It's not unheard of, and AJ's tinfoil case is a good one, but I don't think scum would have done that. Also his early switch to Zander. He may be playing us all though ala AJ-described scenario. 

 

 

Nyn and I did exactly that in the Usual Suspects. Difference is we waited for him to give a post that gave us reason to do it but it was right near the beginning of D1

 

 

Townies

Verb

Dice

Wow. You have Dice as BLUE?

 

 

As she should. You have doubts? Ask.

 

 

Of my POE you are my strongest suspect right now. Do you think the Zander - Yates meme argument extravaganza was faked then? Could they be teammates? Who could you see as a possible teammate for Zander?

 

I think scum are playing in isolation right now. If you flip town I'd look at Yates and Andrej next but honestly wouldn't be sure where to go from there. Right now looking at who is alive you stand out to me. 

 

 

 

The thing is if you're town then that makes me question what I'm feeling about Andrej and Yates based on their posting. I feel the way they have interacted with others this game and put themselves out there is indicative of their town. If you consider risky exchanges or discussions, I think they have been a part of them and they wouldn't have done so as town (at least not to that extent).

 

So yea right now they feel firmly town. If I'm wrong about you I feel I need to be wrong about either Andrej or Yates and one of them must be scum. 

 

Not a slip. Not the most compelling reasoning. But it's what I got when I had to take a new look at this game after Night 1. So yes they swapped. And here we are. 

 

Answered here.

 

Look, I know I'm town. I know I had a bad day 1. I know I'm not ISO'ing people. What I am doing is making a pool of people who I think based on what we know so far are scum. Right now the pool is a kiddie pool and there's just about enough room for you in it.

 

Like I said I brought up AJ and Yates because I firmly believe one of the three of you are scum. 

 

One other thing I will mention is BFG usually is more active, and right now I believe she isn't due to time constraints. Whether she's actively avoiding the  thread or is actually busy to me would say something of her alignment. So far though I think she is firmly town. 

 

We can "thunderdome". I understand for a few reasons why I would be a good lynch. But then I'm not going down without getting as much info as possible so we aren't in this situation again come Day 3. I agree that you may be slow to start, but after yesterday I would expect you to have a lot more going on than making me your firm scum read because I poked you a few times now, whereas before (earlier in Day 2) you seemed more undecided. 

 

 

 

am on page 43  had this ready to p[ost on but have to go to work. will come back to this

 

 

For starters it was AJ and Yates having the meme donnybrook not zander.

 

second  you are again suddenly sussing someone else other then the person u are arguing with and activity is a really bad reason imo

[Andrej]

 

 

@Verb - generally I would agree the late claim wasn't good but we're talking about Zander here. Also, the character.

What do you mean by this? If you recall, that kind of talk is what I was questioning Zander on D1 and he never responded.....probably because he didn't have a good answer.

My point was that players don't always make the most optimal decisions. Not a bash towards Zander but I haven't seen him handle a PR yet from memory so idk how he would act in that situation. Generally speaking claiming that late could be a bad sign but I was also comparing it to Zander as a player who is still newish.

[Andrej]

Also, the character claim. As I stated which you didn't notice or neglected to take into account.

 

I'll catch up with the rest of the stuff later when things at home slow down a bit.

[Yates]

Also, the character claim.

I'm nameless. What does that say about me?

[Andrej]

That you're either making that up based on Rhea's flip or probably not a PR. The fact that he claimed a bad guy really gave me pause. Obviously it was probably a safe claim with all things considered but from what we've seen town are the baddies and scum are the "good guys" from the book. Even if you aren't named you could probably put this together if you're familiar at all with the books (which you may not be)

[Andrej]

I'm actually kinda bothered no one has brought this up before.

[Leyrann]

@Verb/Leelou - EoD I was pretty much posting as I thought. I believed the claim for about a second and unvoted, Hallia's hammer made revoting unnecessary.

 

If you had noticed Hallia's hammer, why did you bother unvoting after the switch then?

 

That you're either making that up based on Rhea's flip or probably not a PR. The fact that he claimed a bad guy really gave me pause. Obviously it was probably a safe claim with all things considered but from what we've seen town are the baddies and scum are the "good guys" from the book. Even if you aren't named you could probably put this together if you're familiar at all with the books (which you may not be)

 

To be honest I needed about 1 second looking at my role PM to realize roles were reversed. It's then not a big leap to realize that those with power roles most likely have names, and then not a big leap to think Moghedien might be the cop.

[Andrej]

That's more or less what I was getting at Ley. Didn't wanna get too specific about role PM stuff, but yeah. Despite the fishy timing of it which I admittedly was lax about I thought the claim could be legit. I didn't realize Hallia had hammered already when I unvoted but I don't see how that makes it more "fishy" as you put it Ley

 

I also don't think Hallia hammering vetted her. If you look at the time stamps her hammer vote and Zander's claim came at the same time - literally the same minute. Too bad we don't have instant replay for slowmo second by second recap. *coughcough* Verb...

 

Right now I'm thinking the scum resolve in RTE/Yates/BFG.

 

With it being an outside chance of Talmanes for what I stated earlier - but that's more something to keep in mind down the road.

[Andrej]

@Verb - what Yates casing are you talking about that pushed through Zander's lynch? He wasn't even voting Zander nor did he at any point.

[Andrej]

Similar to Zander on D1 none of those immediate three make me confident they are town.

 

RTE is full of contradictions with his reads and explanations. The self vote thing is also off putting. If you're gonna pull the martyr card - you gotta self hammer bro.

 

I feel Yates is sort of playing in the background this game. He can argue all he wants about how "active" he was D1 but I don't think generally much came out of it besides petty arguments that went on for too long. His voting around Zander doesn't look great for him either. I'm very curious where he is regarding his suspects currently.

 

BFG makes me paranoid. I think she's focusing on little things but the effort just feels... Faux. I don't know how else to describe it. She's asking a lot of questions but I'm not really seeing the dots connect for her yet. She's another I would want to know what her reads are.

 

I guess gun to my head if I had to pick I would go BFG. I get a sense of dread whenever I think of her as being scum but I can't shake it. I trusted my gut initially D1 with Zander picking him over "scummier looking" players so I'm willing to take the gamble again.

 

[v]BFG[/v]

[Andrej]

With that I am going to bed. See you all in the morning

[BFG]

@AJ, 'hasn't started connecting dots yet' is probably fair. games reminding me of Belichick at this point.

 

At the moment I'm finding RTE and Yates the scummiest as individuals, but neither reallymake sense as mafia.

 

RTE is being mafia read by pretty much everyone and I can't fault the reasoning. His post at EoD1 felt genuine, but his self-vote earlier was calculated (as per one of his responses to Ley) and is making me uneasy. I can't work out if I'm wanting to clear him for the wrong reasons, or if everyone finding him mafia means that he's town.

 

Yates had a strong start to the game and was an early town read, but since his argument with you his thread awareness dropped. He characterized Talmanes as an activity lynch meaning he hasn't been reading Talmanes, Dice or RTE, and ignored/ forgot a lot of discussion around talmanes failed vote. He's poked/poking at town reads of Hallia/Dice despite not finding them scummy. His concern with Sanders posts was to clear himself.

 

BUT, I don't see him as mafia with Zander. Partially because of the 'TMI' post (ironically) but more for the early game interaction between Zander and Yates, where Zander kept backing off when Yates confronted him, which is how Zander acted towards me in Belichick.

 

Dice is town here pretty much all the time.

 

Leelou is probably town for early and consistent involvement in the game and attempts to game solve. Swing vote on Zander.

 

I've lost this post twice now, and don't have time to retype it in full. I'll be back on at lunch (hopefully), if not a couple of hours before deadline.

 

@Ley, because I noticed Hallias post after I unvotedthe second time.

[BFG]

@Verb, what casing of Zander by Yates do you mean? I just ISOd Yates and there was very early game stuff between them, but Yates TMI post came after you'd voted (which put Zander 2 votes ahead of Talmanes)

[Leyrann]

@AJ, 'hasn't started connecting dots yet' is probably fair. games reminding me of Belichick at this point.

 

At the moment I'm finding RTE and Yates the scummiest as individuals, but neither reallymake sense as mafia.

 

RTE is being mafia read by pretty much everyone and I can't fault the reasoning. His post at EoD1 felt genuine, but his self-vote earlier was calculated (as per one of his responses to Ley) and is making me uneasy. I can't work out if I'm wanting to clear him for the wrong reasons, or if everyone finding him mafia means that he's town.

 

Yates had a strong start to the game and was an early town read, but since his argument with you his thread awareness dropped. He characterized Talmanes as an activity lynch meaning he hasn't been reading Talmanes, Dice or RTE, and ignored/ forgot a lot of discussion around talmanes failed vote. He's poked/poking at town reads of Hallia/Dice despite not finding them scummy. His concern with Sanders posts was to clear himself.

 

BUT, I don't see him as mafia with Zander. Partially because of the 'TMI' post (ironically) but more for the early game interaction between Zander and Yates, where Zander kept backing off when Yates confronted him, which is how Zander acted towards me in Belichick.

 

Dice is town here pretty much all the time.

 

Leelou is probably town for early and consistent involvement in the game and attempts to game solve. Swing vote on Zander.

 

I've lost this post twice now, and don't have time to retype it in full. I'll be back on at lunch (hopefully), if not a couple of hours before deadline.

 

@Ley, because I noticed Hallias post after I unvotedthe second time.

 

I'm sorry, but that most certainly does not explain it. There is no reason at all to not put your vote back in the same post as your unvote. I do not believe for a second you would use seperate posts to put your vote back.

 

Also, I'd like to know what your current reads list is, because your last post is basically calling a bunch of people town and a bunch of others "scummy but unlikely to be mafia". It sounds like both fence-sitting and not having mafia reads.

[Leyrann]

Gonna try again. I believe my post didn't get through.

 

 

@AJ, 'hasn't started connecting dots yet' is probably fair. games reminding me of Belichick at this point.

At the moment I'm finding RTE and Yates the scummiest as individuals, but neither reallymake sense as mafia.

RTE is being mafia read by pretty much everyone and I can't fault the reasoning. His post at EoD1 felt genuine, but his self-vote earlier was calculated (as per one of his responses to Ley) and is making me uneasy. I can't work out if I'm wanting to clear him for the wrong reasons, or if everyone finding him mafia means that he's town.

Yates had a strong start to the game and was an early town read, but since his argument with you his thread awareness dropped. He characterized Talmanes as an activity lynch meaning he hasn't been reading Talmanes, Dice or RTE, and ignored/ forgot a lot of discussion around talmanes failed vote. He's poked/poking at town reads of Hallia/Dice despite not finding them scummy. His concern with Sanders posts was to clear himself.

BUT, I don't see him as mafia with Zander. Partially because of the 'TMI' post (ironically) but more for the early game interaction between Zander and Yates, where Zander kept backing off when Yates confronted him, which is how Zander acted towards me in Belichick.

Dice is town here pretty much all the time.

Leelou is probably town for early and consistent involvement in the game and attempts to game solve. Swing vote on Zander.

I've lost this post twice now, and don't have time to retype it in full. I'll be back on at lunch (hopefully), if not a couple of hours before deadline.

@Ley, because I noticed Hallias post after I unvotedthe second time.

 

I'm sorry, but that most certainly does not explain it. There is no reason at all to not put your vote back in the same post as your unvote. I do not believe for a second you would use seperate posts to put your vote back.

 

Also, I'd like to know what your current reads list is, because your last post is basically calling a bunch of people town and a bunch of others "scummy but unlikely to be mafia". It sounds like both fence-sitting and not having mafia reads.

[Leyrann]

Third try

 

 

@AJ, 'hasn't started connecting dots yet' is probably fair. games reminding me of Belichick at this point.

At the moment I'm finding RTE and Yates the scummiest as individuals, but neither reallymake sense as mafia.

RTE is being mafia read by pretty much everyone and I can't fault the reasoning. His post at EoD1 felt genuine, but his self-vote earlier was calculated (as per one of his responses to Ley) and is making me uneasy. I can't work out if I'm wanting to clear him for the wrong reasons, or if everyone finding him mafia means that he's town.

Yates had a strong start to the game and was an early town read, but since his argument with you his thread awareness dropped. He characterized Talmanes as an activity lynch meaning he hasn't been reading Talmanes, Dice or RTE, and ignored/ forgot a lot of discussion around talmanes failed vote. He's poked/poking at town reads of Hallia/Dice despite not finding them scummy. His concern with Sanders posts was to clear himself.

BUT, I don't see him as mafia with Zander. Partially because of the 'TMI' post (ironically) but more for the early game interaction between Zander and Yates, where Zander kept backing off when Yates confronted him, which is how Zander acted towards me in Belichick.

Dice is town here pretty much all the time.

Leelou is probably town for early and consistent involvement in the game and attempts to game solve. Swing vote on Zander.

I've lost this post twice now, and don't have time to retype it in full. I'll be back on at lunch (hopefully), if not a couple of hours before deadline.

@Ley, because I noticed Hallias post after I unvotedthe second time.

 

I'm sorry, but that most certainly does not explain it. There is no reason at all to not put your vote back in the same post as your unvote. I do not believe for a second you would use seperate posts to put your vote back.

 

Also, I'd like to know what your current reads list is, because your last post is basically calling a bunch of people town and a bunch of others "scummy but unlikely to be mafia". It sounds like both fence-sitting and not having mafia reads.

[Leelou]

@Verb/Leelou - EoD I was pretty much posting as I thought. I believed the claim for about a second and unvoted, Hallia's hammer made revoting unnecessary.

Yes, but you see you would have put Talmames at 4 votes had your vote counted before you unvoted and Zander would have been at 5 without AJ's unvote. Also, if you noticed Hallia's hammer why even bother with the unvote post? That whole eod play doesn't make much sense to me.

[Leelou]

[unvote]

 

[v]BFG[/v]

 

Still hate RTE's self vote and his play has been bad, but BFG does not seem like she is on her town game.

[Yates]

As she should. You have doubts? Ask.

It's not about having the right answer. It's about how she and Ley arrived at that conclusion. The process. Scum know if you are Town, after all.

[Yates]

Even if you aren't named you could probably put this together if you're familiar at all with the books (which you may not be)

LOL - I didn't even know this was a theme game until Zander's flip. So it's safe to assume I don't know the source material.

[Yates]

I'm actually kinda bothered no one has brought this up before.

This actually brings up a thought.

 

If *I* didn't know this source material? You *KNOW* Zander likely didn't. He's Canadian. He can't read American English. This tells me that he had help in his QT with his fake claim - mod provided or not. So one of his team mates is someone who a. knows the source material and b. puts stock into character claims.

[Yates]

I feel Yates is sort of playing in the background this game. 1. He can argue all he wants about how "active" he was D1 but 2I don't think generally much came out of it besides petty arguments that went on for too long. 3. His voting around Zander doesn't look great for him either.

1. What is this? Where do I even talk about my activity, never mind using it as some sort of Town tell?

 

2. And YOU are the reason it went on for so long. You kept changing the argument. I would argue my tenacity is a TOWN tell, not the other way around. Though I see where you might grasp on to that statement given thread sentiment [specifically from Leelou, Dice, and Ley].

 

3. My "voting around Zander" doesn't look good? Given I stated I thought Zander was likely Town and I gave a really good meta reason why? Okay. Let's delve deeper into this argument...

 

This was the VC:

VC

Zander (5) - Talmanes, Ley, AJ, Leelou, Verbal

Talmanes (3) - Dice, RTE, Rhea

Rhea (2) - Zander, Hallia

AJ (1) - Yates

 

Not voting:   BFG

People I didn't trust included you, Talmanes, and Rhea. Then I asked Zander this:

 

Top 3 scum. Go.

 

Rhea

RTE

TBH You

 

I had already decided I wasn't going to vote RTE day 1. I wasn't going to vote for confirmed Town [myself]. No one else was joining me on the AJ wagon. So I voted Rhea. If I were on Zander's team, and especially if I knew he was going to cop claim, why not vote Talmanes and make him the lead wagon? Unless you think the scum team is exactly Zander/Talmanes/Yates??

[Yates]

BTW??

 

 

Top 3 scum. Go.

 

Rhea

RTE

TBH You

 

Rule of 3's suggests RTE is scum here, fwiw.

[Yates]

[v]RTE[/v]

 

Probably RTE and AJ.