Tarmon Gai´don Mafia Part 1 - Tel´aran´rhiod

[ReleaseTheEvil]

 

What's that written out full?

 

Appeal to emotion. 

 

 

Nah if I was scum I'd have gone the way of the Zander and fake-claimed. Although I guess two in one game wouldn't work so well. Fair play to him though good try.

 

I don't AtE as scum. It is known. It's not an AtE anyways. And besides say what you want but last BT game this all turned out well. It might here as well but I might have to die for it. As long as it gets people coming out and posting so you have what you need next Day. 

[Leelou]

 

AJ wasn't the first person to call you out on the spam and possible derail, it was Talmanes.

And?

 

I was just merely commenting that you didn't spend as much time going back and forth with Talmanes. 

 

 

Interesting comment on Talmanes' vote on Zander as well.

What's interesting about it, iyo? I thought it was good to see Talmanes "shaking trees" given the conversation you quoted. Not sure what else you are seeing there?

FYI - I hate that you trim quotes so much. 

 

It was interesting because you said you didn't agree with his conclusion, but basically liked his process and that you seemed to like it. Seems like you would have been getting good vibes from him at this point. 

 

 

THEN you start to make a fuss at me over the Seph thing. Starts here.

And?

 

This was my second post in my catch up from the night stuff. I respond to stuff as read it. You claimed you thought it was weird I was "pushing" on Seph. I thought it was weird that you characterized what I did as a "push" so I called you out on it. Wanted to know if it was a misunderstanding or a scummy misrep.

 

 

You question RTE on his read on Hallia and Ley

Yup. Yates game solving.

Those two ^ yes townie behavior. 

 

 

You softly question Zander and that lasts for a short time, then you give him another chance.

LOL - "softly." Yes, I was caressing his hair while trying to determine if he was scummy misrepping me and taking a "me too!" attitude when the thread consesnsus seemed to have shifted towards me. Here's a hint: he was. Good look for me, imo.

bold - legit lol. 

 

It just seemed like you dropped questioning him easily to give him another chance. Not damning, but just meh after looking back and seeing his flip. 

 

 

Here you aren't expecting to be near the bottom of lists

This is me saying; "one of you is scum and I know it." I was surprised to see you mischaracterize the whole seph thing as a "push." That's why I made a stink of it. Then I saw Zeph and AJ jumping on that bandwagon. And you are three people [not Talmanes] that I would expect to assume I was Yatesing [TM]. That NONE of you was like, "um guys? That's obviously not Yates trying to force a lynch, that's Yates prodding for game play" made me pretty sure at least one of you was scum. I could see one of you missing context or something but not all three. Verb saw it. Talmanes saw it. So I at least had reason to believe I wasn't being SOOO sneaky about it that it SHOULDN'T have been obvious to you...

Not bad explanation. 

 

 

And you go back to questioning me, and ends here.

Again, good look for me, imo. Supports the above.

Yup

 

 

Then you start in on your arguement with AJ that goes from here to here.

More good look for me. ALSO supports above.

The argument does make you look a bit better, but it still went on far too long and was a distraction. 

 

 

Along the way, you throw some dirt on Hallia.

NOPE. Not throwing dirt. Even said I don't even think she's scummy. I'm CLEARLY suggesting scum is hiding behind a Hally Town read because, again, that seems to be thread consensus based on not NEARLY enough data at that point. And guess what? You had Hally as your 3rd most Townie read in your first list [though technically you called her null] and Zander didn't hate your list. And in case you think that's a stretch?

 

Let's hold off at putting him any higher u,til,we hear from him. It looks like he's at l-2

 

prolly Town!Hallia in da house

 

Here he claims Hally is Town because she suggests not putting someone at L-1 until we hear from him. Because that's a clear and obvious sign of "Town!Hally?"

You also went on later in the game to say that people are grossly underestimating her scum play. So yeah, bit of dirt throwing from you. 

 

 

Then there was this ending sequence of posts before Zander was lynched.

This is the only point you've made that isn't a Town case on Yates. And I had I feeling I'd have to defend my actions there.

 

All I can say is I wasn't totally sold on Zander scum and the wagons seemed to be being manipulated by people I didn't have Town reads on - especially AJ. So I didn't trust the CFD's. Between Zander and AJ? AJ sketched me out more than Zander. I explained why but basically because I agreed with Zander that I wouldn't expect him to throw shade my way as scum. In retrospect? He backed out of that shade pretty quickly and easily on me and even defended himself by saying "well I didn't vote for you bro." So if you tilt your head and squint your eyes a little bit *maybe* this could even be construed as me being Town spewed? If not? You just have to accept my explanation at face value.

 

Everything else about this says I'm Town.

Eh, but overall you give a townie vibe with your explanations. 

[Leelou]

Yates - thoughts on BFG? 

[Leelou]

 

 

What's that written out full?

 

Appeal to emotion. 

 

 

Nah if I was scum I'd have gone the way of the Zander and fake-claimed. Although I guess two in one game wouldn't work so well. Fair play to him though good try.

 

I don't AtE as scum. It is known. It's not an AtE anyways. And besides say what you want but last BT game this all turned out well. It might here as well but I might have to die for it. As long as it gets people coming out and posting so you have what you need next Day. 

 

 

Same as yesterday when you were being voted: put in some work then and show who is scum. I can tell you, it most likely isn't Verb. 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

All I've been getting in response to my posts have been people saying who they "know" is town and this is starting to stink. Everyone is so eager to point out who they think is town but so few people have posted who their top scum suspects are.  

 

If you are all so confident you know who town is, and we know the scum team has more than two people in it (given you think I am one of them) where are the rest? 

[Verbal32]

 

I honestly don't know what to make of you right now, RTE.

 

I don't know what to make of this game after the N1 flips. So your guess is as good as mine about who the last scum members are this game. But as I don't think you're town I don't think you're as concerned. 

 

 

This sounds like you know I'm town and that I don't actually know the scum team (hence I'd be guessing).  It is true, but this could be TMI on your part.

 

 

 

 

Well then the quickest way to resolve this and move forward with the game is to get my lynch and keep going.

 

[unvote] [v] RTE [/v] 

 

Gross.

 

 

 

 

It's not for nothing that I asked Talmanes what happens when I flip town. Based on what he said I'm his strongest scum reads for two days and that was about it. Therefore it should be of interest to everyone to consider what the heck happens on Day 3 when I flip town. Obviously you will have night flips but some forethought wouldn't hurt anyone. 

 

 

 

Also, you still haven't answered my question. What changed your opinion on Talmanes?

 

Him being on Zander from the start of day. It's not unheard of, and AJ's tinfoil case is a good one, but I don't think scum would have done that. Also his early switch to Zander. He may be playing us all though ala AJ-described scenario. 

 

 

These last 2 posts place some wiggle room to change your stance (yet again, btw) on your #1 town. 

[Niniel]

 

VC

 

RTE (4) - Ley, Leelou, Talmanes, RTE

 

Not voting: Dice, Yates, AJ, Verbal, BFG,

 

 

 

It´s now Day 2. Deadline is Tuesday 9 PM CET. 

 

Countdown

 

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

 

 

 

Good luck on your new job, AJ.

[Talmanes]

@RTE - Once again you are playing in the same pattern as D1. I see you are trying to throw suspicion back on me now, which I find interesting because you have been so back and forth. Yesterday you say I'm scum and vote me. Today you say I'm likely Town, and now are reverting to saying I could very easily be Mafia too. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Your first vote was Ley and now he is your number one Town read as well. I'd also like to know why you feel so strongly about BFG.

 

As to who I'll go after next, that really depends on how the rest of the Day goes, and how the Night goes after that. Once I have more information I'll move forward accordingly. My first scum lead panned out, and I think my second will as well.

 

Your vote on yourself makes you look worse too. First you say you are going to try and get all the information you can before being lynched, and now you vote yourself trying to cut down how much time we have left to have Day discussion? Doesn't add up.

 

If you've noticed I haven't done any ISO either, but I have still had carefully crafted cases. Making weak cases doesn't necessarily make them wrong, but it certainly doesn't make you look like town especially when one of your weak cases (which you've all but admitted is weak) is accusing Verb of not trying. Complete and utter contradiction. Your weak cases to me make me think you're trying to get someone lynched while also not looking bad when they flip Town.

[Verbal32]

That self vote makes me want to hammer so bad, but I have some Yates and Ley reading to do.  Not sure how far AtE would go here considering he put himself at L-1.

[Talmanes]

@Verb - My gut tells mW he is bluffing, and hoping that by voting himself he will get people to think twice before voting him. At the same time we are getting a lot of good discussion right now and I'm not keen to end that so much sooner than we have to.

 

The DL will be while I'm at work tomorrow, and I don't know how much I'll be able to post tonight, as I have RL to tend to, so I'm keeping my vote where it is, but I think we should wait before hammering to continue discussion. I want RTE lynched today, but not by sacrificing over 24 hours of Day discussion.

[Leelou]

All I've been getting in response to my posts have been people saying who they "know" is town and this is starting to stink. Everyone is so eager to point out who they think is town but so few people have posted who their top scum suspects are.  

 

If you are all so confident you know who town is, and we know the scum team has more than two people in it (given you think I am one of them) where are the rest? 

 

Two of you, BFG, and AJ

[Leyrann]

 

Also, you still haven't answered my question. What changed your opinion on Talmanes?

 

Him being on Zander from the start of day. It's not unheard of, and AJ's tinfoil case is a good one, but I don't think scum would have done that. Also his early switch to Zander. He may be playing us all though ala AJ-described scenario. 

 

 

So, because he was on a mafia at the very start of day 1 he's your top town read? That is worse than abysmal. You're NOT a first time player, RTE. SEVERAL people have mentioned it could just as well be early distancing. That stance means basically nothing but, if you really want to, wifom. And wifom is as useful as nothing. And an early switch? You have to agree, the Zander lynch came pretty much out of nowhere. It could very well have been a look-good vote on a teammate that was unlikely to get lynched at that point.

 

Note: I do NOT think Talmanes is actually scum, I think he's been playing pretty townie, but I just want to point out that RTE's logic is bs.

 

 

What's that written out full?

 

Appeal to emotion. 

 

 

Ah, yes, that was it. My main emotion it brings up is annoyance and wanting him gone though.

[Leyrann]

Agreed that we shouldn't yet lynch RTE though. I'm going to [unvote] now to make sure we won't get any accidental hammers, will revote him closer to deadline.

[Leelou]

That self vote makes me want to hammer so bad, but I have some Yates and Ley reading to do.  Not sure how far AtE would go here considering he put himself at L-1.

Don't forget to read BFG! 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Well someone hammering prematurely could have been informative but alright. 

[Leyrann]

Not as informative as more discussion, considering most people seem to agree you are scum.

[Leyrann]

There are more reasons to wait a bit though.

[Niniel]

 

VC

 

RTE (3) - Leelou, Talmanes, RTE

 

Not voting: Dice, Yates, AJ, Verbal, BFG, Ley

 

 

 

It´s now Day 2. Deadline is Tuesday 9 PM CET.

 

Countdown

 

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[Verbal32]

 

 

Also, you still haven't answered my question. What changed your opinion on Talmanes?

 

Him being on Zander from the start of day. It's not unheard of, and AJ's tinfoil case is a good one, but I don't think scum would have done that. Also his early switch to Zander. He may be playing us all though ala AJ-described scenario. 

 

 

So, because he was on a mafia at the very start of day 1 he's your top town read? That is worse than abysmal. You're NOT a first time player, RTE. SEVERAL people have mentioned it could just as well be early distancing. That stance means basically nothing but, if you really want to, wifom. And wifom is as useful as nothing. And an early switch? You have to agree, the Zander lynch came pretty much out of nowhere. It could very well have been a look-good vote on a teammate that was unlikely to get lynched at that point.

 

Note: I do NOT think Talmanes is actually scum, I think he's been playing pretty townie, but I just want to point out that RTE's logic is bs.

 

 

What's that written out full?

 

Appeal to emotion. 

 

 

Ah, yes, that was it. My main emotion it brings up is annoyance and wanting him gone though.

 

 

RL LOL

[Verbal32]

 

That self vote makes me want to hammer so bad, but I have some Yates and Ley reading to do.  Not sure how far AtE would go here considering he put himself at L-1.

Don't forget to read BFG! 

 

 

Yes indeed.  And AJ, considering they round out my current POE.

[Leelou]

VERBAL:

 

 

 

 

Does this feel like fence-sitting to you? (also, please read her posts up to her vote from here)

 

Can you talk to me about Zander? Cos at the moment I'm confused.

I've just ISO'd him and I'm NOT seeing the smooth progressions that there were in Belichick, his reads are choppy in a way I don't associate with mafia Zander. BUT the way he's backing off his reads (namely you and Ley) DOES remind me of the way he kept backing off me when challenged.

I could go either way here.

 

 

 

 

Also, did you see this? 

 

 

 

 

 

[v]Rhea[/v]

 

I don't even feel great about it.  But I'd feel less bad being wrong about her than being wrong about Zander.

 

 

Not that it means anything at this point

[v]Zander[/v]

 

 

 

Not that it means anything at this point

[v]Zander[/v]

 

 

 

this is over a parked vote on ley???.......seriously.....after dice confirms his meta after i asked someone to he stopped a major sus after i re-read.
 
i list who i suss afterwards and switched afterwards.  i didnt unvote....come on...maybe if it was there through DL and he was yo flip town
 
this is weak.
 
dont make me do something stupid on D1....

If this means anything?

 

 

fishing eh...

 

HARDCLAIM Moghedien TOWN COP

 

 

 

[v] Zander [/v]

 

 

[unvote]

[v]Talmame[/v]

 

 

Scratch that [unvote]

I don't believe you

 

 

[unvote]

[v]Rhea[/v]

 

Also, interesting series of votes. It's quite possible Rhea isn't scum, but still not ready to clear her. 

 

 

To explain, the vote count would have looked like this had Hallia not hammered: 

 

Zander (4) - Talmanes, Ley, Leelou, Verbal 
Talmanes (3) - Dice, RTE, Rhea

Rhea (4) - Zander, Hallia, Yates, AJ

 

Not voting: BFG

 

[Yates]

Well then the quickest way to resolve this and move forward with the game is to get my lynch and keep going.

 

[unvote] [v] RTE [/v]

You realize our vig/sk can sort this out for us tonight, right?

[Yates]

You also went on later in the game to say that people are grossly underestimating her scum play. So yeah, bit of dirt throwing from you.

Now that the game is over I can tell you that it isn't "dirt throwing" at all. That's me quasi hinting without saying [mostly to Zander, BFG, and AJ] that we *just* had this conversation about Hally in The Usual Suspects. Same. Exact. Conversation. Sure, everyone in the game was scum [including her, obvs] but this wasn't a known fact at the time or while people were making their "reads" on Hally.

[Leelou]

 

You also went on later in the game to say that people are grossly underestimating her scum play. So yeah, bit of dirt throwing from you.

Now that the game is over I can tell you that it isn't "dirt throwing" at all. That's me quasi hinting without saying [mostly to Zander, BFG, and AJ] that we *just* had this conversation about Hally in The Usual Suspects. Same. Exact. Conversation. Sure, everyone in the game was scum [including her, obvs] but this wasn't a known fact at the time or while people were making their "reads" on Hally.

 

 

You were referring to Verb and Rhea as grossly underestimating her scum game, and neither of them were in that game. But okay. 

[Yates]

Yates - thoughts on BFG?

I have to reread her. I like to Town read her because I think she shows good and realistic thought progressions that are easy for me to follow and understand. I had a good feeling about her, tbh, but Verb raised some good points. I didn't see Zander getting lynched D1, never mind flipping scum, so that makes the wagon analysis kind of meh. I do feel like someone got "stuck" on the Zander wagon, though, and could find a good excuse to reason themselves off...