British Monarchy Mafia- Game Over, Town Wins!!!

[Talya]

I think because she is saying there is no vig as well..

[alannalynn]

I think because she is saying there is no vig as well..

Dang I didn't see that, I'm really not reading well. This wouldn't make sense before or after Pral, because there's no way to say that Pral is lying just because Snow is lying. And after Pralaya posted, he confirms vig. Sooo meh. @Why did you say no vig?

[alannalynn]

Ew, that was supposed to be @Heart

[Hallia]

I didn't catch that either.

 

Yeah, that's kinda strange o.O

 

Heart?

[Aiel Heart]

@Talya, I actually feel better about you suspecting me over that.

 

 

Ok so AT THE TIME we had two vig claims, John came out and said he wasn't a vig, and then people were looking at Pral as if he was scummy (please see the lines before what was bolded).

So if both of them are not the vig (one said he wasn't and the other was being looked at like he was scummy so he wouldn't be the vig either) the two options based on that would either be (1) no vig or (2) some third person was the vig. 

And that question was meant to be more incredulous. By no means should another vig (if there is one) step forward at this point. I was trying to figure out what people were getting at when they switched their attention/votes from John to Pral

[Aiel Heart]

Did that make sense? I can try laying it out a little more simply :P 

[Aiel Heart]

@Talya, I actually feel better about you for suspecting me over that.

Heart can't language today >.> 

[Aiel Heart]

I can't remember who it was who had switched their votes... Want to say it was Eld and Lotad. Will go back after I do the dishes. 

[wheeloftime13]

Vote Count

 

Dice (1/8): NotBob

Zander (3/8): dicetosser1, Razen, Tina

John Snow (3/8): Zander, Hallia, lord of the dawn

Pralaya (2/8): John Snow, Eldrick

 

Not voting (5/14): Aiel Heart, alannalynn, Pralaya, Seph, and Talya

 

Countdown to end of Day 1: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/election?iso=20150711T20&p0=263&msg=British+Monarchy+Mafia+Day+1&font=cursive&swk=1

[Aiel Heart]

Lotad looking at John:

~Snip~

 

im not going to lie, this bothers me on multiple levels, all you have done JS, is drop your claim and defend yourself poorly. even if its to try and provoke reactions and start conversation, I dont know if defending yourself poorly is part of your plan, but if it is your succeeding. ive waited to hear some actually valid reasons not to vote against you, and you have not impressed me. granted i havent had much opportunity to contribute my thoughts on the matter, but i honestly think enough is enough, Zander, and others have been pretty cool on giving you multiple opportunities to defend your self, and i have waited and deliberated enough. 

 

 

 

I do apologize, but i think i have my answer after pages and pages of this. 

 

i [v] vote John Snow[/v]

 

my only hope is that i am not playing into your hands. which could very well be the case. but well, i will find out i guess, for better or ill. 

 

 

Eldrick

 

~Snip~

 

 

I agree with you that being a top poster doesn't mean anything. I also don't like that Zander keeps bringing it up. He's pushing his towniness really hard. We should figure it out by his play, not by his amount of posts or cuz he says so. But I don't like that you are leaving your joke vote on him to 'make a point'. Do you intend to lynch him to make said point?

^^^this

 

 

 

 

[v]JS[/v]

 

John's post was in here, he starts the "hard pressure" on Pral

~Snip~

 

Instead Pral has dodged thread. Intentionally and consistently. (Protip: If you want to dodge thread, set your status to always show offline). Now while this isn't the most scummy thing Pral could do, it's the best play for a scum to do. Let the train on me ramp up, let town kill their vig, and get vetted by a townie death. And lose nothing. 

 

 

 

So that's my thought process. Any questions?

 

Also Pral obvscum imo. [unvote] [v]Pral[/v]

 

Lotad seemed to think better of John and also says that Pral has some answering to do (didn't actually unvote though)

 

~Snip~

im not going to lie, this play of yours didn't win any favors, at least with me, and i assume several other people as well. however this does need to be investigated further i think. some of what your saying makes sense, if that was your plan at all. unfortunately, i dont really know you as a player JS, only what ive seen so far. which like i said, doesn't put you in a positive light so all i can really judge you on is what ive seen of you so far, not how you play or what your like in other games or threads. 

 

ultimately however if what your saying about pral is true, then pral has some answering to do. 

 

and things suddenly got a little more complicated. le sigh

 

 

Eldrick seeming to believe John:

 

~snip~

 

This actually does make a lot of sense. My biggest problem was that you were avoiding talking about it, and were stalling. If you were waiting spefically for Pral to respond (which I don't think he has in over 24 hours), then the stalling makes sense.

 

Your willingness to lynch him right now tells me that you are probably not scum together. I'm not convinced that he is scum from this, though. What if he really is a vig, and believed your claim? I want to hear from him now.

 

 

And then actually voting Pral

 

Alright, you people figure it out. I am going to sleep. Good night everyone :)

 

Yup. He hasn't said anything since. This needs pressure.

 

[unvote]

[v]Pral[/v]

 

 

 

 

So I was seeing what these three in particular thought was going on--if there was no vig, or if there was some other person who was the vig based on the available evidence of John claiming not vig and then them seeming to think Pral was scummy. 

[Aiel Heart]

The latter of those posts was on peg 24, my post is midway down on page 24, and then Pral's clarification post was at the bottom of page 24

[Pralaya]

My reads on each are below

 

1.dicetosser1 - Not much posts but that is seomthing I am seeing in his other games. Votes Zander for posting in caps and rightly argues that low posters can be important! (I agree, lol). Null so far

2. NotBob - Was quite calm in his reaction to JS claims and mine. Not trying to take advantage or not trying to disrupt the claims. He had his confusions and those were natural. Looking town here

3. Aiel Heart - Again, not much posts. But, I like the questions asked to Eldrick, me and JS here . So far, looking townish.

4. alannalynn - Had basically not much reaction to the claims. However, she tried talking about masons a bit  - like questioning about Zander's claim of masons and here. But, it more a confused suggestions or speculating rather than trying to distract town. Null to townish here. 

5. Pralaya - I am town. I win with town !

6. Hallia - Good reaction to the claims. What I would expect a townie to do. I like that she took her time before voting JS. Leaning town. 

7. lord of the dawn - not much posts. But, his points against JS claiming looks forced. As if wanting to vote him but trying to make it convincing. And while he FoS'es JS, he votes JS the moment he sees the heat on JS increases. Leaning scum

8. Eldrick - He votes JS as soon as he sees his claim and even before looking at my claim. Then he sees my claim and says it looks worse for JS in this post and that looked odd. Then he starts the idea that the vigs must prove themselves and reinsforces the views in a few more post including here . That looked more like fishing. Both his later votes - on JS and me seems like he is trying to jump on the latest train. Leaning scum for me.

9. Zander - TOo many post to quote. Has been active and been part of the speculation. Tried to talk about masons initially. I don't see a problem in him claiming that he felt there was a wolf in Snow/Pral/Hallia/Tayla. Others voting him over it definitely seemed fishy. I am thinking he is town.  

10. Seph - His main reaction to the claims is that we are masons and out of all the people, he seems to be one that mentions that a lot. He has numerous posts where he tries to reinforce the fact. But, his other posts have sounded good - so I am torn on him. Null

11. TinaHel - Not a lot of posts. She did give reads on others, which looked fine for me except for her vote on Zander. Looks like she basically did not have a strong reason but voted anyway. But, not much to go with.  Null.

12. Razen - Liked his reaction to the whole claims thing. He was sceptical of the claims but was willing to do a wait-and-watch approach without distracting the town with a lot of speculations. And, that I feel is a very towny thing to do. Do not agree with his vote on Zander saying that he was trying to get me or JS killed. But overall he has seemed townish to me

13. Talya - Am getting a good vibe on her. She has been actively trying to scum-hunt here. Null to townish.

14. John Snow - I pretty much said what i feel about his claim in my earlier postI could see why he fakeclaimed. But, I don't like his vote on me. Anyway, null for now. 

 

My vote for scum would be between lord of the dawn and Eldrick. 

[Niniel]

Just a question - Pral, why did you choose to claim?

[Hallia]

I like this read list of Pral's, except I would put Talya higher and AH lower.

[Niniel]

Grrr... Impossible to post with phone and bad internet connection. I'd like Pral to answer my question. I like his read on LotD. I could vote there.

[Niniel]

I don't think AH would rolefish like that if mafia. I think it looks like Talya is trying to make a connectiin between AH and Snow that isn't there.

[Talya]

How do you know it's not there.

 

I said maybe a bit of ten foiling hence asking someone for their opinion. Doesn't mean there isn't one, and yet you seem so sure!

[Razen]

I went back to look at Eldrick, since I looked at Pral's read list and I wanted to examine where we disagreed.

 

Hey guys. I'm here, and catching up.

 

So far, the only thing that caught my attention was JS claiming vig on Day 1. I don't trust that claim.

 

[v]JS[/v]

 

Back to reading.

Voted for JS at this point, and then literally comes back after.

 

Wow. I stopped reading at just the wrong time.

 

Pral hardclaims right afterwards.

 

I read this as a joke. I don't think he's actually vig. He very well could be, and hiding under the other claim. There could easily also be 2 vig's. I still don't believe either of the claims. Why claim vig Day 1? I think it looks worse for JS than it does for Pral, though.

This feels forced to me.  Literally, read like a couple more posts and he would've seen that. 

 

So I know basically nothing about British Monarchy. Is there any good way to tell good char claims from bad ones? Were there bad monarchs over the years?

I really, really, don't like this line.  This looks to me like he's looking to fish for names for a claim, should he need it.

 

Let's try to avoid a DL hitting without majority, k?

 

Random death with no coroner report is just bad.

It was still a long way out from the deadline (I believe it still is too).  This line feels to me like he's trying to get people to speed things up without carefully considering things and waiting for more information.

 

 

 

1. dicetosser1 - No posts at all - null
2. NotBob - Haven't seen enough to give me a read one way or another - null
3. Aiel Heart - Not enough posts - null
4. alannalynn - Not enough posts - null
5. Pralaya - Hardclaim vig cc - Time will tell
7. lord of the dawn - Not enough posts - null
8. Eldrick - Not bad posts, seems towny enough
9. Zander - Not bad posts at all, stronger town read
10. Seph - Asking questions, seems engaged - towny
11. TinaHel - One post - null
12. Razen - Same as Seph, towny as well
13. Talya - THE ONE LOCK CLEAR TO RULE THEM ALL
14. John Snow - poor reactions, quick to vote initially, not improved since

 

No scum reads at all?  The only one I'm seeing that you're not put in your lean town or null column is JS, and I'm not really inclined to think he's scum at this point.

 

There isn't anything wrong with not having scum leans yet. It takes me a while to get them myself.

 

Not incriminating by itself, because it is true, it can take a while to sit down and analyze things.  But I don't like how he lectures about that after I asked Hallia more about her read list.

 

 

snip

 

Can I clear something up for you? I find it weird that the only thing you have to comment on about my posts is me commenting on Seph assuming it's an advanced game.

 

As for Zander saying there being one mafia among Talya/Hally/Snow/Pral, I see where he's coming from there. With Talya and Hally, there's the whole Hally unreasonably clearing Talya. And then Snow and Pral are the vig claims. I wouldn't add Talya to the list, but the other 3 definitely have some explaining to do.

I don't like how he's going with the four people that Zander had suspected.  Someone else had pointed out that if you pulled 4 random names, there's a reasonable chance that you could get at least 1 wolf.  I've felt better about Hally as I've gone back and read, and Talya has been pretty solid as well.  We now have a bit more on Snow and Pral too.

 

 

Because a) its just stalling the game b) people can read it when they get on here its not going anywhere right? c) seems like maybe he's waiting on a teammate or adice on what to say.

 

Theres just no good reason for it.  And im surprised theres not more votes on him to create pressure for him to stop stalling.

 

 

 

^^^this

 

[v]JS[/v]

His vote on JS.  No real reason, just piggybacks off of what Zander said about voting to pressure JS.  It feels like he's just content to slip right in under that umbrella.

 

I think that we could do with pressing Eldrick a bit more.  I really don't like how he tried to ask about which monarchs were good to claim and which weren't.  Couple that with his reaction when he first voted JS and missing the second claim, and what to me felt like speeding up a lynch train that didn't need at that point, and I'm getting pretty weird vibes from him.  Unvote, vote: Eldrick.

[Talya]

I was trying ti ISO Heart, but the quotes are going weird.

 

So a list instead:

 

First part is a bit fluffy votes Razen and thenunvotes

 

 - Zander feels off  and we should lynch him

 

 

Talks about using vig power and Post count

 

- Qs Zand on Elds idea of not letting them live (JS and Pral)

- Qs Eld why voting before caught up, why dislike JS over Pral

- Asks Zand the question again

- Likes Razen

- Zander Felt different (again she says this), but no ready to dub him scummy

 

finds something curious and likeable about Seph an Eld???

Talks about Hally's lock clear on my and my response, does ask Hally for any other strong tremors

 

- Zand Excitable

 

- Qs NB over JS and Pral and agrees with his vote on Dice

 

- Tells JS channelling EP will not win her trust

 

- Doesn't see Zanders 4 (Snow/Pral/Hally/Tal) as random

 

- Thinks it is possible we have two vigs, so it's not a counterclaim, immediate vote isn't necessary with a cc, but pressure would be and didn't see any

 

One Quote

 

This is odd...now we know what Pral has said. Doesn't automatically mean a link here, but it does mean that Pral could have used this as an excuse. Mod can Wolves talk Day and Night?

 

If each of the vigs (my computer keeps trying to correct that to "figs" so if I say something about figs at some point just know that it is probably supposed to say "vigs") had some sort of restriction, I could see that being possible.

 

So that is one possibility out of many. The lack of pressure towards each other between the two claims is interesting (if memory serves, they were almost amenable--will need to read that interaction again) and causing me to think that there is something beyond a counterclaim going on here. 

 

Oh and managed another quote..phew!

 

It's a ton easier to be able to make those posts when I'm working less and the game is moving slowly enough for me to keep up easily. Harder to respond to 20+ pages in this way. Glad you all like it? :P 

(*Sniffle* don't worry teal deer posts; I still love you)

 

 

 

Gut says to believe John (gut says he was doing some weird gambit in the first place). Still watching you! 

 

Ok, so, John has now stated that he is NOT the vig.

Pral claimed, was fine with John and then hasn't done much of anything since (I think he posted once?) so a lot of people are now seeing him as scummy.

Soooo are we thinking that there is no vig? Or does a third person want to step forward and actually counterclaim this time? 

 

 

 

There was something else I was going to comment on but I can't remember what now. Mafia is not a good idea first thing in the morning >.<

 

This is the one I pointed out earlier. ^^^

 

Still no over keen on it. Still sounds like a fishing remark, even in jest. but I will stop the tinfoliling at present with her and JS.

 

Other post - Formatting gone again!

___________________________________________________-

 

@Talya, I actually feel better about you suspecting me over that.

 

 

Ok so AT THE TIME we had two vig claims, John came out and said he wasn't a vig, and then people were looking at Pral as if he was scummy (please see the lines before what was bolded).

So if both of them are not the vig (one said he wasn't and the other was being looked at like he was scummy so he wouldn't be the vig either) the two options based on that would either be (1) no vig or (2) some third person was the vig. 

And that question was meant to be more incredulous. By no means should another vig (if there is one) step forward at this point. I was trying to figure out what people were getting at when they switched their attention/votes from John to Pral

____________________________________________________

 

^^ This one, she automatically assumes that Pral can't be a vig because people are funding him Scummy, Not sure  but I didn't like the last part in bold, the rest of her talk didn't sound like that. After this she goes to find out who had changed their votes. This doesn't read right to me at present.

 

 

 

Reading back through I'm more inclined to think there is a link between her and Zander, a few...comments on Zander feeling different, not wanting to putting him her scummy pile yet, This feels off/staged to me. I need to look at Zander a couple of things there I didn't like neither.

 

I did like her new posts, but when I look closely at them, she goes back to commentary n places rather than reads on people. Feels fency in a few places.

 

[v]Heart[/v]

 

sorry, just please don't claim Doc, else I'll cry. <3

[John Snow]

 

-snip-

I'm confused.  First, you said you weren't the vig.  And then, you're saying that Pral's absence is allowing the train on you to ramp up and let us kill our vig.  You're contradicting yourself here.

 

For what it's worth, I do agree that if he is deliberately avoiding posting in the game thread after browsing when his claim has been questioned endlessly it's that he's trying to hide something.  And I do think it's insanely weird he was ok with your claim too.

 

 

Town and mafia thought they were lynching the vig. They were (obviously) wrong. 

 

 

Alright, caught up completely.

 

Hah, lot of things seemed to have been blown out of proportion. Masons, being in the same team etc etc. I am basically looking at all the posts that tries to bring these up.

 

Anyway, with John Snow's claim that he was lying, it changes things. I can see why he was lying in the first place - trying to bring up the activity during D1. In which case his reaction-testing would make sense definitely.

 

What I don't agree is him shifting the blame to me - with two reasons - the first being I did not vote him and the second being that I am dodging the thread. The first is easy - I hinted to Hallia right at the beginning why I am not cc'ing him. TO make it clear, I am not a full vig and hence I am not surprised that there is another person with vig shot. For the second reason, was I on the site yesterday? Of course, I was - I was trying to catch up in between work. And, I was there today too. If anyone knows how I play, I never post before I catch up completely. Anyway, this is completely what you want to believe - I cannot prove or disprove it.

 

Now, back to my readlist.

 

 

Sorry, nope, don't buy this. You were behind for 2 days and you just "happen" to catch up when you get called out? Classic scum tactic. 

 

And here's the thing. Me not CC-ing you had me as strong town in your book (assuming, but pretty fair assumption). And there was a train ramping up on me, and you don't think that's the time to pop in and say "I'm not caught up, but this guy is town guys?"

 

For the record, saw this coming. 

 

Just a question - Pral, why did you choose to claim?

 

This. 1000x this. 

[John Snow]

Oh, yeah, @Tayla, it's DM practice that wolves, masons, etc can talk at all times on the QT.

[Niniel]

How do you know it's not there.

 

I said maybe a bit of ten foiling hence asking someone for their opinion. Doesn't mean there isn't one, and yet you seem so sure!

 

I don´t know if there is a connection between them. I have both of them as null right now. I just felt that it was a long shot. It was hard for me to see if your were actually trying to figure stuff out or making something up. You have backed away from it so I guess it could be the first one. Now you have some kind of connection between AH and Zander instead and I don´t understand why.

 

For those of you that some kind of meta read on Snow - would he do something like this as mafia? 

[Talya]

Oh, yeah, @Tayla, it's DM practice that wolves, masons, etc can talk at all times on the QT.

 

Not always, one game recently Wolves could only talk at night, hence why I asked.

 

If you saw my ISO of heart Tina, you would see why, she keeps saying Zander is weird. She's played a couple of games with him, so it is worth noting.

[Pralaya]

Just a question - Pral, why did you choose to claim?

 

Well, when JS claimed vig, it initially kinda threw me off. But, then, I speculated him to be town based on the role I had. To be sure of that and to gauge his reaction, I claimed. 

 

Sorry, nope, don't buy this. You were behind for 2 days and you just "happen" to catch up when you get called out? Classic scum tactic. 

 

And here's the thing. Me not CC-ing you had me as strong town in your book (assuming, but pretty fair assumption). And there was a train ramping up on me, and you don't think that's the time to pop in and say "I'm not caught up, but this guy is town guys?"

 

The point is that I never knew of the train ramping up on you till I reached that point in my catchup (which was probably after you voted me). Like I said...I can't prove it but those who have played with me before would know I catch up pretty slow.

[Pralaya]

Anyway, [v]lord of the dawn[/v]

 

Based on my earlier reads. I don't think his reads are that organic when you look at it. The vote train on JS looks definitely scum driven.