9 - 5 Mafia - Day 3 - GAME OVER! MAFIA WINS!

[BFG]

 

seems like it so far

ya it almost seems scummy...lol

 

This felt a bit off to me. Everyone felt like Town and then I do a little poke and he says maybe scummy.

 

If he is mafia I'm betting he's been told to just agree with me lol

 

I remember Zander being quite 'agreeable' and changeable last game.

 

It's never too early to get rid of symps.

 

[v] Ithi [/v]

Why symp?

 

 

 

It's never too early to get rid of symps.

 

[v] Ithi [/v]

Of course you're one of two who's actually mentioned it so you don't have the keeping up appearances fear. That's a good thing.

 

Apparently the others think I'm Town.

 

Too true at Turin

 

 

Lol no, but I don't see the point in lynching a survivor when you're prodding and poking to get reactions.

 

 

 

It's never too early to get rid of symps.

 

[v] Ithi [/v]

You think Ithi would claim survivor to symp signal? That would be crazy. You let that game get too far into your head. Remember the past but do not let it control you. 

 

Or more likely you are just hoping to make sure mafia doesn't get lynched today.

 

Nice try.

 

Unvote

Vote: Leyrann

 

 

Always defending Ithi. :P

 

 

 

 

It's never too early to get rid of symps.

 

[v] Ithi [/v]

Of course you're one of two who's actually mentioned it so you don't have the keeping up appearances fear. That's a good thing.

 

Apparently the others think I'm Town.

 

Too true at Turin

 

"Keeping up appearances fear"?

 

I'm not sure wheter you mean that I'm not considering anyone to be a certain role before the game starts, or that I'm not afraid to say what I think. Or maybe something else.

 

I mean that you're obviously not censoring your own posts to try and make yourself look good.

 

 

Nope. I stopped doing that recently and it turned out to be better this way.

 

In fact I haven't only stopped doing any eventual censoring but I'm just trying to get stuff going.

 

 

Why try to change the discussion to something that's generally not alignment indicative when there's real stuff to talk about?

 

 

 

 

It's never too early to get rid of symps.

 

[v] Ithi [/v]

You think Ithi would claim survivor to symp signal? That would be crazy. You let that game get too far into your head. Remember the past but do not let it control you. 

 

Or more likely you are just hoping to make sure mafia doesn't get lynched today.

 

Nice try.

 

Unvote

Vote: Leyrann

 

 

Hate this argument.  I think it's more crazy that mafia would push somebody they could realistically believe to be the survivor - since they would know if she's with them - over the 10 or so townies in the game.

 

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say here?

 

I'd have thought voting a survivor would be a 'safe' vote for both town and mafia although voting Ithi less so :)

 

 

 

I also hate Darthe's push.  Darthe, you should know perfectly well that he would (and has) done that as town.  I've played one game with him IIRC and expect him to hard defend her the entire game.  You insinuating there's anything inherently scummy about that is a bad look.

I can't ignore poor performance based on expecting someone to play poor regularly.  People who try to twist every single thing directed at them are annoying and unproductive at best and have fantastic wolf cover at worst.  

 

I think Ithi looks town atm and Turin looks worse for it.

 

Why are you saying Ithi is town when she's claimed third party? If town why would she claim a role that will probably get her lynched if mafia haven't been lynched?

[Cory Caboose]

hey cory sorry if i missed it but you have reads to share?

 

 

 

Going to start up the REREAD, but aorn I have a few villagers I am confident enough in:

 

dice

Clov

Turin

Ithi

Tina

 

Want to check out what's going on between Xander/Seph, seems like there's some fun there

 

 

Still haven't finished (or started!) my rereads but I think the above is probably still right

 

NBA Playoffs LDO

[Zander?]

Go Raptors!!!

[BFG]

 

 

not sure why everyone is townreading Zander atm but maybe you're right glgl

 

i think i MIGHT be able to read him but i've only seen him once, so glgl me, will have to crank up the Rube Goldberg Soulread Machine

I have Zander as a light town read due to relaxed posting and interaction, easy reads, and although it's a bit generalised I don't see someone who was just lynched Day 1 as town coming in posting when feeling bad and hung over. As with last game it's a muted read due to the fact it's Zander.

 

 

I assume you mean the bold to apply to when they're maria.

 

Lol, yes

 

posting as mafia

[Clovdyx]

Okay, since we're apparently going to have this conversation, I'm just going to throw my two cents in:

 

Discussing the phase change thing is a completely pointless conversation to have.  Literally nobody but her knew that aspect of her role, so any actions/pushes/defenses towards her were made on the assumption she was either a normal survivor or lying about her alignment/role.  I don't know what the phase changes did, and I certainly don't how she planned on using them.  What I do know is she's dead now, so it's pretty likely it doesn't matter.  

 

If you want to judge people's alignments on how they reacted to the claim, I'm all for that.  But anything else is a waste of time.

[Zander?]

i post hungover more then i like to admit...lol.  only complain bout the really bad ones...lol. 

[Cory Caboose]

[v]Leyrann[/v]

 

Read a few of his previous games in the Meta game and one thing super in common with all of his villager games is that he is A) high volume B) high content and C) sort of kicks dirt everywhere for his own purposes

 

Here he seems crazy conservative, could see him on a Mafia team that wanted Ithi dead as well (if we're thinking that kill was a mafia daykill, which I've seen much more often than town daykills). Tonally he doesn't have too much of a problem emulating, going to rip some posts from a Mafia game I remember him reading where he had some good, villagery posts but failed to interact in real time and keep up his thread appearances

 

Darthe probably needs to be resolved sooner than later but I think these two have a lot of w/w equity

[Cory Caboose]

Go Raptors!!!

 

[Cory Caboose]

Okay, since we're apparently going to have this conversation, I'm just going to throw my two cents in:

 

Discussing the phase change thing is a completely pointless conversation to have.  Literally nobody but her knew that aspect of her role, so any actions/pushes/defenses towards her were made on the assumption she was either a normal survivor or lying about her alignment/role.  I don't know what the phase changes did, and I certainly don't how she planned on using them.  What I do know is she's dead now, so it's pretty likely it doesn't matter.  

 

If you want to judge people's alignments on how they reacted to the claim, I'm all for that.  But anything else is a waste of time.

 

[Zander?]

i know i know but im canadian gotta go for the Home Countries team....lol

[Cory Caboose]

Add BFG to the light green pile 

[Clovdyx]

I don't understand what you're trying to say here?

I'd have thought voting a survivor would be a 'safe' vote for both town and mafia although voting Ithi less so :)

 

What does mafia gain from pushing a survivor right off the bat?  The only time I see it really helping is if it's a teammate on the chopping block, and we're nowhere near a lynch.  I would expect mafia to do everything they can to keep her alive while working towards a lynch that actually helps with parity.

[Turin Turambar]

Okay, since we're apparently going to have this conversation, I'm just going to throw my two cents in:

 

Discussing the phase change thing is a completely pointless conversation to have.  Literally nobody but her knew that aspect of her role, so any actions/pushes/defenses towards her were made on the assumption she was either a normal survivor or lying about her alignment/role.  I don't know what the phase changes did, and I certainly don't how she planned on using them.  What I do know is she's dead now, so it's pretty likely it doesn't matter.  

 

If you want to judge people's alignments on how they reacted to the claim, I'm all for that.  But anything else is a waste of time.

True Clov. Moving on probably is best.

 

Just letting everyone know that I start working again tomorrow so will be less active. I can usually keep up with reading but have very limited times that I can post. I will be off to bed soon so any quest ions before I go I will try to answer.

[BFG]

 

Questions:

1. Do you think Ithi is faking her claim as mafia? Then say so and vote her for it.

2. Do you think she is faking her claim as Town? Then back off cause there must be a reason for it.

3. Do you think she is telling the truth and is a Survivor that has basically thrown her lot in with town? Then at the very least you should be following along with Cory's (I think) idea that she could always be lynched if we are ever at lylo+1. Or even more to my opinion just treat her as town. If a couple mafia get lynched then they might have to shoot her at night possibly letting a townie live an extra night.

 

4. Who would want to get the claimed out the gate, pretty much tied to town Survivor lynched as soon as possible? 

 

5. Final question: Who is she being a liability to?

1. No. I never really thought that would be a mafia fake claim.

2. No. Less chance of her doing it as Town than as scum.

3. Yes. I was 90% sure she was telling the truth BUT as I pointed out to Dice, just because you INTEND to throw your lot in with the Town doesn't mean that you will continue to. Your suggestion that we wait until lylo +1 or whatever sounds good in theory but never really works out in practice because you typically need to nail SCUM in lylo +1.

4. I think mafia would have a vested interest in protecting the survivor. I know *I* did in Arthurian. It's one less person to worry about, people can tinfoil on the 3rd party actually being scum, AND you basically have a symp if you take the lead towards end game.

5. Town. Obviously I have the benefit of hindsight at this point but I've only seen "phase changer" as a 1x mafia role. So that wasn't very likely to HELP Town.

 

I'm going to look back at how people reacted to the claim but I'm already suspect of you, Dice, and Cory if you guys were pushing to keep her alive because I know you have all been in, moderated, mentored, or read and commented on games with 3rd party survivor wins within the last month or so.

 

 

Without having read the whole thread yet, difference between Ithi this game, Cory in the Star Wars(?) game and Dice in the Arthurian game, is that Dice wasn't doing much to help town while Ithi and Cory were. But if/when to lynch a Survivor is always a hard choice to make, fortunately not necessary now.

 

 

 

 

LMK if you want to fight about this for 4-5 pages, I have to stay up to watch the Spurs game anyway

Meh. I believe that you believe this theory. I'm not going to argue about all the reasons I disagree because it's over.

 

Have you ever seen a phase changer role before? If so, what party was it? Also, could you see it being used in a pro-Town way?

 

 

 

Okay, since we're apparently going to have this conversation, I'm just going to throw my two cents in:

 

Discussing the phase change thing is a completely pointless conversation to have.  Literally nobody but her knew that aspect of her role, so any actions/pushes/defenses towards her were made on the assumption she was either a normal survivor or lying about her alignment/role.  I don't know what the phase changes did, and I certainly don't how she planned on using them.  What I do know is she's dead now, so it's pretty likely it doesn't matter.  

 

If you want to judge people's alignments on how they reacted to the claim, I'm all for that.  But anything else is a waste of time.

Spoilered because I mostly agree with Clov here. But the only time I remember seeing the role on DM was in Verbs bastard X-Men game, when the role was used to stop night, prevented the mafia NK, but also all town actions so wasn't entirely beneficial.

 

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

Clov I think you underestimate how self-concerned Mafioso tend to be here

 

Just in general, they push at anyone possible and are typically afraid of pushing townies (because "credit!")

 

I've seen DM Mafia hardpush survivors all the time - Lenlo in Doctor Who first to my head

 

Obviously Leyrann isn't Lenlo but Ithi tends to play a pro-town game and I would imagine her townsiding as TP if all else was equal

[seph]

[v]Leyrann[/v]

 

Read a few of his previous games in the Meta game and one thing super in common with all of his villager games is that he is A) high volume B) high content and C) sort of kicks dirt everywhere for his own purposes

 

Here he seems crazy conservative, could see him on a Mafia team that wanted Ithi dead as well (if we're thinking that kill was a mafia daykill, which I've seen much more often than town daykills). Tonally he doesn't have too much of a problem emulating, going to rip some posts from a Mafia game I remember him reading where he had some good, villagery posts but failed to interact in real time and keep up his thread appearances

 

Darthe probably needs to be resolved sooner than later but I think these two have a lot of w/w equity

I really like this post. I think it was more on the mafia side. Where can i find a previous game with him in it?

[Cory Caboose]

Expecting Mafia to play a linear, help-their-own-alignment type game is going to cause you heartbreak here
 

I've been spectating for like 9 months now and they rarely do anything but ~lurk and then make "big, content-filled" posts when called out on which gets everyone off their back

 

And it wins them 72% of the games so who's to say it's not viable anyway

[BFG]

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say here?

 

I'd have thought voting a survivor would be a 'safe' vote for both town and mafia although voting Ithi less so :)

 

What does mafia gain from pushing a survivor right off the bat?  The only time I see it really helping is if it's a teammate on the chopping block, and we're nowhere near a lynch.  I would expect mafia to do everything they can to keep her alive while working towards a lynch that actually helps with parity.

 

True, but Ithi started the game much faster than the norm recently, so is generally acting protown. Honestly the vote itself is alignment neutral for me, in general experienced mafia players on DM who weren't in the Star Wars game are pro lynch Survivors, but I don't follow the stated reasons behind the vote afterwards

[Cory Caboose]

 

[v]Leyrann[/v]

 

Read a few of his previous games in the Meta game and one thing super in common with all of his villager games is that he is A) high volume B) high content and C) sort of kicks dirt everywhere for his own purposes

 

Here he seems crazy conservative, could see him on a Mafia team that wanted Ithi dead as well (if we're thinking that kill was a mafia daykill, which I've seen much more often than town daykills). Tonally he doesn't have too much of a problem emulating, going to rip some posts from a Mafia game I remember him reading where he had some good, villagery posts but failed to interact in real time and keep up his thread appearances

 

Darthe probably needs to be resolved sooner than later but I think these two have a lot of w/w equity

I really like this post. I think it was more on the mafia side. Where can i find a previous game with him in it?

 

 

Villager here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92894-game-over-cliche-mafia-the-death-of-meta-sooh-wins/

 

Had 219 posts, 2nd most in the game

 

Villager here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92740-psycho-a-sketchy-sk-event-is-over/

 

Had 95 posts on Day 1 and was summarily nked N1. Was one of the most vocal players d1.

 

Villlager here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91922-cleanse-the-tower-black-tower-mafia-day-2/

 

105 posts, 4th in post count

 

Villager here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/87210-clash-of-divinity-advanced-mafia-day-7-reckoning/

 

81 posts on Day 1 and was summarily nked N1, again vocal d1 player

 

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

 

----

 

 

Mafia here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86296-vampire-diaries-mafia-mafia-wins/

 

69 posts, subbed out after D3, about 10th in posts ITG

 

Could go back further but he seems to have a substantial volume tell

[Cory Caboose]

FWIW Leyrann has 19 posts in a about 3 RL days here, good for 9th in post count

If it LOOKS LIKE A DUCK and QUACKS LIKE A DUCK

 

I know "volume is lazy for reads" but it's also somewhat reliable and I'm more interested in being right than I am in having great "reasons" for thinking the things I do 

[Cory Caboose]

I guess if you want something better: Leyrann can do the tonal thing in either role, he has some decent "villagery" posts in VD if you want to just skim it

 

But he lacks the drive and desire to "game solve" and maintain a consistent, loud and vocal thread presence. Villager!Leyrann can't really help himself, he just posts a lot regardless of what people think of it and wants his thoughts out there; I had to decide if he was a villager or not late last game and went through enough to know what his town game looks like.

 

Here he's making his "points" but doesn't really seem to have any compelling interest to keep his pushing and prodding and talking going. One of the big reasons I switch to more of a "ramp up" style here is that it's very telling to see what players do things of their OWN VOLITION as opposed to who gets pushed into the thread and needs to make posts to "get people off their back" since DMers have a long, known tendency to clear anyone who makes long, placating posts

[Cory Caboose]

BATSIGNAL MONSTRMAN

REPORT FOR DUTY

[Clovdyx]

A slight knock on your case, Cory - Leyrann was NK'ed in Psycho and then took over for somebody who subbed out, so his post total on D1 was a bit lower than you suggested.  That doesn't do too much to your argument, but I thought it was a distinction worth pointing out. 

 

I have him as a medium town ATM, for a couple weaker reasons.  First, I liked that he pointed out the typo I made in one of my earlier posts.

 

 

 

Turin, was your joke a vote or are you actually arguing he's more likely to be mafia because he said lock clear?

 

Of course his joke was a vote. I mean, don't you too think that elections are truly a joke?

 

 

Content wise, it's a pretty empty post, but it does mean he was at least paying enough attention to what I wrote to point that out.  If he's more of a laid back player as mafia, I'm not positive he catches something like that.  

 

Second, I thought his catch on Tina about more or less suggesting you HAVE to townread her was pretty pro-town.  I think I suggested earlier why she would make the post and it didn't personally alarm me, but it's something I could see somebody less familiar with you two finding off.

 

I'll go and take a look at VD later to see if anything stands out to me.  I do remember feeling not so great about him in Psycho because he just seemed to be saying things.

[Cory Caboose]

A slight knock on your case, Cory - Leyrann was NK'ed in Psycho and then took over for somebody who subbed out, so his post total on D1 was a bit lower than you suggested.  That doesn't do too much to your argument, but I thought it was a distinction worth pointing out. 

 

Just looked - that slot got shot N2, but yeah you are right, it is indeed lower than than reported (but still higher than his Mafia game, which he was also in for an additional game day)

 

Read his scum games and LMK, but I would not say he is "laid back" as Mafia - he still posts, and afaict is content driven and pays attention - he just doesn't have the need and transparency levels that keep him coming back

 

I guess the POG rhetoric would be that he is "deep in his wolf range"

 

It's going to be fun arguing this with you for awhile tho

 

Let's cut to the chase: who is the villager I am misclearing?

[Darthe]

Cool, so this isn't great for me to say but logically I can see the sense in resolving me early one way or another.  Glad to see an Ithi flip here despite thinking that she was trying to garner activity.  Turin trneds upwards for me based on Ithi actually being 3p but I can't get by Tina's abuse of the situation.

 

[v] Tina [/v] my best lead atm.