9 - 5 Mafia - Day 3 - GAME OVER! MAFIA WINS!

[Turin Turambar]

Cool, so this isn't great for me to say but logically I can see the sense in resolving me early one way or another. Glad to see an Ithi flip here despite thinking that she was trying to garner activity. Turin trneds upwards for me based on Ithi actually being 3p but I can't get by Tina's abuse of the situation.

 

[v] Tina [/v] my best lead atm.

I'm not sure how Ithi being 3P makes me more town. you still not really making sense to me Darthe. Can you make it simple for me?

 

Tbh this kinda feels like a back off due to you feeling saFe that since Ithi is dead you are more safe. Especially since I won't have time to push these next few days.

 

Darthe slipping into the shadows now that the eye of Ithi has been put out. Just a feeling.

 

Interesting notes on Ley. I'm not sure if they are still pertinent but I guess we will see.

[Tim Dickens]

I'm here sort of

 

Hi guys!

 

I'll make reads after work when I get a chance to actually read the thread

[Cory Caboose]

Timmy are you a villager?

 

Be a villager pls??? :)

[Cory Caboose]

Yates I am never afraid to be wrong in a werewolf game

 

At least I'm not ALWAYS wrong :P

 

If I'm gonna get fooled at least it's by someone as good as Tommy. IIRC I was NKed n1 as a vanilla villager and you got mislynched later on :P

[Yates]

Technically HALLY got us lynched but whatevs. My play won us the game. That's my version of what happened and I won't change my mind on that.

 

I will make you the same promise I made you in that game [i think]. If you get NKed tonight, I will allow your reads to heavily influence mine. If you are alive in the AM? I will probably drive the wagon to get you turbo lynched. Cool? Cool.

 

Still getting caught up but you aren't in my lynch pool for D1 regardless.

[Yates]

This is where I'm at as of half way through the game [page 13].

 

I apologize in advance if my catch up notes and reads are extremely Ithi centric. BUT, we have a flip on a claimed 3rd Party and the way people treated her is going to heavily influence my reads.

 

Calling Ithi "Town" in the first couple of pages is an easy "read" to fake. She was active, she's dangerous as Town, she was driving the early D1 discussion, they knew she wasn't scum. [Darthe, Clov, Zander, Turin, ~Seph] So I can't give anyone Townie brownies for Town reading her and feel pretty confident that would be a good place to hide a Town read as scum.

 

I don't think scum Leyrann hangs his butt out like he did early on wrt his Ithi vote. He was the first to go there in spite of Town consensus [at the time] being that Ithi would still be pro Town. It's enough that I won't be lynching Leyrann today. In other words, he is "obviously not censoring [his] own posts to try and make [himself] look good." Oh gross. Calling his vote on Ithi a joke later looks awful. And this "well, it wasn't a full out joke vote" under pressure is equally bad.

 

Darthe bro, why you scum? You know Turin has an inherent Ithi bias in all games. While I might give him a check-minus for voting Leyran for confbias reasons, you get a full on F for pushing Turin for reasons you KNOW are not alignment indicative. Also, why would you say she "looks Town" after she already claimed 3rd Party? I think you see what I'm implying here... [meh - Dice beat me to it but changing your story to Town "play" is kind of weak.]

 

 

Also I'm not actually Town. I'm a 3rd Party Survivor.

 

Yates, is that you?

 

I IRL loled.

 

I think my lynch pool will likely settle into this group; Darthe, Clov, Zander, Turin, ~Seph though I already know I'm going to be taking Clov out based on the stuff I've seen from him IRT. As of this point in the game I think Ley will be replacing Clov on the list so I'll be interested in:

Darthe, Ley, Zander, Turin, Seph

 

At least two scum in that list. Book it.

[Cory Caboose]

And I'll make sure you get lynched the first time you make a good read since you've shown yourself utterly incapable of doing so as a villager

[Yates]

And I'll make sure you get lynched the first time you make a good read since you've shown yourself utterly incapable of doing so as a villager

'scuse me?

I had BOTH of the scum in a pool in 4 people. On Day 2. As a vanilla. I'm not unhappy with that.

So you know what????

[Niniel]

What's the VC?

[Yates]

For me zander, I know you said you had to switch your play style, but your play this game is just entirely different from your personality, I started to notice it after a couple of re-reads. maybe it will just take me some time to get used to mafia zanders play style lol.

Seph - how much experience do you have playing with Zander? I ask because you are both new to me.

[Yates]

In the game that just finished, he was mafia and pretty much avoided discussing Cass (his only teammate) at all.  It wasn't until we were working on a POE solve that he even brought her up, and he STILL didn't give a read.  

 

Based just on that, I would lean that all three could not be mafia together, and I feel worse about Zander and Dearthe independently than I do Dice.

I'm about 99% sure I've seen Dice bus as scum. I'm sure the Encyclopedia Cortannica can remind us which game if Dice isn't willing to confirm. Not saying Dice is scum but that your logic here may be flawed.

[Clovdyx]

I have few doubts that Dice has bussed before, but I don't ha move experience with him to make me think he would default to that.

[Yates]

Just realized Seph is being mentored by Tress. That means 100% chance I'm getting investigated tonight if he's cop.

 

I actually like Darthe's take on him from page 15 and would be willing to take Seph out of the lynch pool for today. So that's a help.

[Darthe]

Yates is town

[Yates]

Yates is town

That's cool and all but I'm very disappointed in you right now.  I'm on page 17 and agree with Ithi that a lot of your push on her was for outside of the game stuff that I would have been offended by as well.  I get that you sometimes troll for reactions but accusing someone of cheating is crossing a line.  Also, I don't understand why you would be so upset about Turin always defending Ithi?  I mean, this is a known quantity.  It's like me pulling a Three Amigos gag with AJ or Lily and Nyn doing their "sister" stuff.  It's just something we do.  In a game.  For fun.  If it isn't alignment indicative, then why are you so worried about it?  You have GOT to know it's a distraction and that it's one you are perpetuating.

[Yates]

Sorry. Let me clarify the above post. I get that you didn't call them "cheaters," per se, but the implication was there. And I'm sure it was intended as a needle but came across more as a low blow. [i obviously just got to you blowing up at Zander and wanted to defuse this immediately]

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

I can't recall her ever using Socratic reasoning. She usually doesn't stand out to me in early game and, albeit this could be bias, but the below really didn't sit well with me even compared to the other pushes on me (excepting Zanders who I mostly forgot about til rereading it just now).

I'll probably do some more research later to make a better comparison, but I was trying to find a recent game of her's besides Psycho and saw that she played in A Wind in the Door in the main forum. Compare these to what she's said so far. Bold is parts I really want you to focus on:

 

 

 

 

 

Copied from another thread: "I went to a Christmas smorgasbord today. It was amazing, I tried a lot of things that I have never tasted before. I ate several different pickled herring, different kind of salmons, rabbit, duck, goose, wild boar, fallow deer, red deer, moose and even bear. Afterwards there was cheese and a lot of Christmas candy. I´m so stuffed that I can hardly move. "

 

 

 

Hard claim Survivor

 

Sleeper Service is one of two wolves

 

You guys find the other one

 

It's probably not Sili since Hoya went after him early and nobody seems rustled with his wagon, including him

You are claiming third party?

 

[/unvote]

 

[v] Tommy [/v]

 

I have played in too many games were town lost because of third party players or claimed third party players.

Just got to this Tina, sorry didn't see the first time:

 

Tell me about Manbat. (=Moster?)

 

Up to eight I have a bunch of pluses for monstr

 

while his WIMMY opening is something he CAN do as mafia he's more likely to do it as a villager. i think he accumulated a good deal of wolf fatigue in the Champs game and I know he really wanted to be a villager in this game and in all honesty a lot of DMers considering "the big villagery open" to actually be relatively conspicuous and one asset that's big in monstr's scum game is that he's inconspicuous if that makes sense. he knows what will or will not get him intro trouble.

 

he continues to go strong, has at least one read i think he's more likely to make as a villager (sili town, which i think could be incorrect but i think monstr interpreting sili's lack of an early filter as villagery is pretty monstrish of him) and i appreciate the way he talks to me and to tom. it would be hard for him to take the line he took with tom irt to me getting aggressive around page ~7 - “it may be tiresome to you tom” - as a wolf. tom points out correctly that monstr doesn't usually get involved in spats between people he likes as a wolf, he usually just reads them villager and giggles

 

there are some things he does early that i log in the back of my mind as mildly mafian and he hasn't touched any of them. his posting just seems pure, filterless and we think similarly. i usually say "i can read monstr perfect by day 2 EOD" but i'm actually pretty close to just bluereading him outright today. i'm extremely confident he's a villager.

Okay. Thanks. Good to know.

 

 

So far I feel that Mish/Cory, Dice/Csarmi and Err is town.

 

I´ve seen survivors in a lot of DM games but it´s often in larger games. This is my take:

 

1. If fake = mafia -> lynch

 

2. If right then there are no guarantees that he will side with town. He does what needs to be done to win. He is not town! -> lynch

 

3. A common fake claim for another 3rd party role (like sk) -> lynch

 

 

I don´t know how many games I´ve been in where everyone says that we can lynch the survivor later and then town has lost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greeting, everyone! Been out of mafia a while but here goes...

 

I have to admit this should be amusing to watch you try to read someone you've never seen before… commence!

yeahh.... it has started.... will take time getting used to tracking all new names for me.....

I am going to say this now so I don't make dumb mistakes later:

 

I think I have a bad tendency to box out players I don't know very well. I haven't played with either of you before, so here's my tl;dr - my name is Cory, I tend to post a lot and get really involved in games. I'm very competitive. So here's a little quick question/answer for both of you - if it seems not game-related or inane please answer it anyway to humor me:

 

1 - Do you prefer being town or Mafia? What aspect of the game do you enjoy?

2 - What do you think makes you valuable as a townie?

3 - What do you think makes you valuable as Mafia?

 

Err, off the top of your head do you have any links from DM you think would be good examples of how you play as a villager and as Mafia? I will probably browse old games when I get the chance for myself but want to give you the opportunity to see what games you are proudest of.

:) i feel like being interviewed again before a new job :P

 

well i have played 3 games online so far.... however i have played a lot of mafia games with large group of people in the university.

 

here are the games in the order i have played them[redacted]

 

 

1. i have enjoyed playing as both townie and mafia. but i think it was more fun when playing mafia.

2. & 3. dont know about valuable but if i remember correctly (since the last game i played was in more then half a year ago), in the first few days i got suspected/lynched/killed because in the beginning of the game i tried to guess the dynamics of the game (may be over thinking them) e.g. guessing the number and role of mafias/godfather and special role players in the game. people who have played with me might be able to tell better.

It sounds conversational and I like his avatar, thought it goes without saying it's a tone read premised on one post. The blue parts resonated with me. Nothing struck me as dishonest.

 

I get the feeling I'll confuse their gender at some point. Her/him. Talks like a she. Male avatar. Weird.

How could Err ever have posted answers to these that would sound dishonest? Why would anyone lie in an answer like this? Why does Sili take this as a town tell? As he says, from just one post. I´m not sure if it´s a fluff post (trying to look active) or pre defending Err or whatever.

 

 

Can you tell me what all of your names are on other sites - I get a bit confused.

 

 

I don´t the emo posts. I don´t know what to do with them. Is it:

 

1. Genuine feelings? If so, I don´t get what started it.

2. Some kind of game play/checking people´s reactions/setting traps etc? If so, I don´t find it to be an enjoyable gamestyle.

3. Trolling? If so, just stop.

 

I could absolutely follow Dice and Csarmi on Tommy. I´m still on Sili because he seams to play a bit cautious. I think that a Tommy lynch would give me some info about other players.

 

I´m not sure about Manbat. Some of his posts look townie but I didn´t like that he stopped talking to me but turned to Cory to ask about me instead and then just agreed with him. I´m not sure about his oppinions about Tommy either. He seems to be on the fence about him. But as you can see, I´m on the fence about Manbat.

You have a nice level of paranoia. I can understand it but you have some wacky reads.

 

fwiw we don't lynch for information. that is never happening here.

He has still not starting to suspect me here. I´m having a "nice level of paranoia" that he "can understand". = It looks like he knows I´m town and trying to win me over by being nice.

 

 

Final one is chopped so that it fits, but you can see the full post here if you need it. Shouldn't really matter though. LMK what you think.

I'll be damned if that isn't almost copied.

And what does that mean for her alignment to you?

[Yates]

 

he kept saying I was Town when I wasn't. He said he's explained himself when he hadn't. He was saying I was Town but also saying scummy things. He was trying to have it all ways and them cementing my feel on him.

 

I don't understand this point.  If he's mafia, he basically knows whether you're telling the truth about being the survivor.  All he would have to do is check his scumchat and see if you're there?  Nope?  Okay, you're not mafia, and you probably aren't going to claim 3P when you're not...

 

So now he keeps saying you're town.  How does that fit a scum narrative?  I don't get how that stance helps his team at all.

 

Actually, this is something that was bothering me too. My concern is if Darthe is scum all he knows is his scum team. Anyone else is generic "Town" for him to sort through to find PR's. So if he writes Ithi off as "not Town PR" then he's kind of done with her slot. At that point, it's easy to "forget" she's just 3rd party and to refer to her as Town.

 

I protected Dice 3rd Party when I was scum and claimed he was acting Townier than Townies because I wanted him on my side so I could get to end game faster and force him to vote with my scum team. THAT is how it fits the scum narrative.

[Yates]

Probably the only thing worth wondering about unless RTE would like to explain what Phase Changer means

Really? I have to be the one to ask? Fine.

 

@RTE - What does a "phase-changer" do? Thanks!

[seph]

First off im going to address dice. I am getting used to this, everyone has a different pay style and makes reads differently( the lest field remark) yet it seems you voted me for the sooh comment, and just making a read differently. I feel like I had good reasoning for all my reads.

 

Yates I have more experience with zander than anyone in the room, I was making reads off what I see on the forum's. I use what I have and that is all I have on anyone, besides previous games folks post.

 

Ill 're read and post when I am home here shortly. Suspicions lie with zander, darth, and thinking ley.

 

Dice can you explain your vote on me a little more? I get the gut feeling and that is about all. Around when yoy started posting about me and I was furiously writing my response, there were some posts I really liked, and felt town. I just can't put you there, but I am going back to null.

[Yates]

3. So you believed and still thought that Ithi who is a force to be reckoned with would be able to switch her allegiance to mafia half way through when it was pretty much known that if things got anywhere near lylo she was gonna get lynched because it most likely meant that she had led a couple of mislynches thereby making all the tinfoil come out.

 

4. Maybe under normal circumstances, but this was not some odd person claiming and being super coy about what was going on. She was putting in the work and looked to be firmly working in town's best interest. Again, I think there would be NO WAY she lives to end game to win with mafia

Yes. That is almost exactly what I'm saying. As I mentioned earlier, lynching a claimed 3rd party at some predetermined point in the game never actually happens because you are typically trying to lynch scum over 3rd party. Do you have an example of a time that allowing a claimed 3rd party to live worked out well for Town? The last 2 or 3 [depending on if/how you want to count my SK claim] times were bad and I can't remember the last time it actually helped. Plus, a big part of the reason I brought up Dice is because he absolutely wanted to win with the Town as 3rd party in Arthurian. The problem is, we got enough mislynches in to FORCE HIM to vote with us. Leaving him alive allowed us to win 2 game days sooner than if we had allowed his lynch to go through.

 

 

Using this crazy role buff after the fact to justify a stance seems off to me.

I want to be perfectly clear on this point; her role buff isn't being used as justification. I specifically asked about the "phase changer" role because I hadn't seen it before and a quick search found only one instance in a MS game - and it was scum aligned. So I wanted to know what the implications of that role are for reasons of game mechanics.

[Yates]

Yates I have more experience with zander than anyone in the room, I was making reads off what I see on the forum's. I use what I have and that is all I have on anyone, besides previous games folks post.

So you know him from the forums but not from mafia games? I am really just wondering if maybe you two have a mafia history together from a different site or something.

[Yates]

Add BFG to the light green pile 

Could you possibly elaborate on where your Town read on BFG is coming from? I haven't seen enough to move her out of comfortably null.

[Yates]

But the only time I remember seeing the role on DM was in Verbs bastard X-Men game, when the role was used to stop night, prevented the mafia NK, but also all town actions so wasn't entirely beneficial.

Unspoilered because that's a big help. Thanks.

[seph]

No, I had to idea about mafia before dm.