The Ultimate Showdown: PART DEUX - GAME OVER, Town Wins

[Hallia]

I did it because he seems to do it a lot, methinks on purpose  So just teasin' back

[Turin Turambar]

Hallia, Now what is your reason for voting amega?

[Hallia]

Didn't approve of that post, and I believed it warranted attention.

[Turin Turambar]

Which post?

[Andrej]

BTW Hallia, did Despo suggest to you that you should call amega a madame on the QT? (he is a guy too)  

 

Where is this even coming from? lol

 

Caution: Hallia, I'm defending you now.

[Tyler Glembo]

##vote Dice

[Andrej]

 

Your town reading them based on their actual game actions is amazing to me. It looks like you just want to take their side while not being too obvious about it. hence the hedgespeak or lawyerese.

 

CS questions me so he gets points in your book. So if he votes me does that make him more town in your book? Looking like you are letting a read influence your opinions of others. beware you might have to case yourself.

 

Turin, give me the TLDR version of why you think Despo/Tommy are mafia. I've stated clearly several times now that I have a town lean on them, so I'm not sure what point you are making by saying I'm trying to not be too obvious.

 

CS gets points for catching you making a post that would suggest that you are aware of Ithi's real alignment. This makes him look better independently of your actions IMO.

 

 

 

Fortunately for you, Ithi is not ready to have you guys lynched yet apparently as she is still voting Dice and pressing Cloud.

Nudging pushing one person while voting another is non-town behavior.

 

Ithi is always town. It is known.

 

Ithi is still well within her meta as she was voting cloud and moved when she saw something pingy from Dice. That she hasn't let Cloud off the hook is also classic Ithi.

 

I'm not asking you for what her meta is. You said that pushing others while keeping your vote on another player isn't town behavior, but you're still calling her town. This is a direct contradiction. Sort of reinforces my feeling that you're intentionally buddying her as well because you know that she is town. You can't call one player mafia for something when you call another town for doing the exact same thing.

 

 

##vote Turin

 

Would be happy with Amega as well.

 

Both have made some pretty bad statements.

 

Turin comes across like he knows Ithi is town and is trying his damnest to stay on her good side. His linkage of several players, including myself, to his lock-scum read on Despo is also troubling.

 

Amega starts out by saying that Despo actually appears to be town and that he presented good points on Cloud. Later he backtracks and calls Despo's method of play scummy when it is basically the same thing he was doing N0. He also calls his vote a joke on Tommy (who shares Despo's slot) but decides that he is happy to keep it there cause... why?

So AJ. Do you think that I am mafia? 

 

Just say "I think Turin is mafia" if that is the case. Heck you can even say "I think Amega is mafia" if you want.

 

Why don't you want to be linked to Tess?(it is actually Tommy that I had the near certainty about actually but w/e) You are reading "it" as town. BTW, do you believe they do not have a side chat? Also, why do you have a town read on Tess?

 

My vote on you should say enough as to what I feel your alignment is #lawyer-speak

 

Being linked to Tess doesn't bother me. The issue I have with what you are doing is making such connections without any sort of prior evidence. Is Tess scum? I don't know, but IMO I don't think so. Now if they were to flip scum and later you wanted to link me to them because of our interaction I would understand.

[Turin Turambar]

In this post Hallia list the hints and/or claims that she sees(I think she might have missed one actually)

 

Finally got to read the thread after bowling tonight.

 

Role Claims/Hints (Some are probably jokes but here they are)

 

Amega: Lord and Savior

AJ: Indy God

Turin: VT

Wombat: VT

 

 

Noticed:

 

Des: Accuses RTE of role fishing/RTE Defends The argument itself didn't really make me lean one way or the other on either of them.  What was noticeable (and not just to me as I see more votes on him)  was Cloud riding in to defend RTE (AJ did as well by agreeing with Cloud)  After taking some criticism and some arguing back and forth it felt to me that Cloud got upset and left.  At first I didn't see anything wrong with Cloud sticking up with what he thought was right, but his reaction to people prodding at his argument fell flat. 

 

RTE: Got game moving, good man, you can be town.

 

##Vote Cloud

Votes cloud

 

 

Re: Des&Turin: I can't make up my mind because I've seen Des and Turin go after each other so often I just kinda blank out now. I think they are both suffering from what Des accused turin off; they go after each other so much when they're in the same game it's hard to separate what's special in each game and what's confirmation bias and what's actual reads. It's headache inducing to say the least.

 

Dice's post was bad, but I'm not sure it was 3 votes in a row-bad. Especially Turin's vote feel bad for me. In general I feel like he's abusing his meta with his Ithi-sheeping. It just seems even more than what I remember.

 

Amega is ick.

 

Hallias listing of the claims made me feel seriously uneasy. Why would you do that? Just... why? Do you want to do favours for the mafia? And then throws herself on the Cloud-train, the biggest train so far. Ugh.

 

Ithi feels town so far. So does Cloud. The last post from Tina gave me some town vibes too. Amega gives me scum vibes, Turin smaller vibes for the sheeping. Conflicted on Dice. Conflicted on Hallia.

 

##Vote Amega

Mish calls Amega just ick. no actual reasoning to back it up. Without that real reasoning it looks (to me anyway) that she would have a larger problem with Hallia. At least there is something of real substance to her issues with Hallia (I don't neccessarily agree with the validity of her argument but she seems to). Amega gives the highest scum vibes for no detailed reason, then me for over sheeping Ithi(okay), Dice is conflicted although she did saw his post as bad, just not deserving three votes in a row. Are you saying that if you had just seen that post and only one person had voted him for it you might vote him also but not if two people had just voted him? Cause to me that wouldn't make any sense. Either YOU think someone is mafia and you vote them or you don't think it and you don't vote them. The only exception would be in a near hammer situation where you wish to give the person a chance to make one last defense.  Also conflicted on Hallia although she says in is bad to make a list of already given information that is available to everyone. (upset your hint was left off?)

 

Mish is a clear warlock. Tina is pretty close to being that as well.

Turin is flailing (and is also more interested in me and Tommy's role than everyone else in the game combined- how schweet of him! ). Ithi is tinfoiling but still town hehe.

Hallia needs to get her heiney on top of some gameplay posts! Oh and I totes agreed with Mish about her point on Hallia- listing all the claims and hints isn't very protown atm.

Who else...

Despo has Mish as a shiny townie. How nice. Tina too. Very nice to be so sure of everyone. Convenient that they both happen to be voting your main mafia suspect. 

Turin is flailing(no examples given) carry on...

Hallia is also anti-town for giving the list of claims/hints ATM... At what point does it become okay to make the list? 

 

Des i thought people just skipped over turin's post these days.. why would this make people loose WIM. Nobody pays attention to him.. well at least thats what you want everyone to think. Since he's such a scummy scum scum. And your a crystal clear townie at the top of the world doing nothing but your darnedest to help out town.

Amega calls out Despo for his stance that people will not read my posts(about him at least but he is implying that it makes all my reads invalid...w/e) Amega is IMO NOT saying that he doesn't read my posts but pointing out to Despo the inconsistency in Despo's argument that town would not be able to lose WIM from reading my tunneling posts on him as Despo has contended that no one pays any attention to my posts.  

 

I see nothing wrong with listing claims, and I don't see how it's anti-town.  You can be sure mafia is keeping a track of it, so if me taking the time to list them helps town in any way, then I'll do it.  I think purposefully not reading people's post is anti-town, however.  

 

##Unvote

 

##Vote Amega

Her Hallia votes Amega who was the ONLY one in the above discussion that did not say that her listing of claims was a bad thing and never actually stated that he was not reading anyone's posts. At least that is how I see it. I am finding your Amega vote very odd. I would like the clearest explanation you can give me as soon as you can arrange it.

[Turin Turambar]

 

BTW Hallia, did Despo suggest to you that you should call amega a madame on the QT? (he is a guy too)  

 

Where is this even coming from? lol

 

Caution: Hallia, I'm defending you now.

 

Despo is quite sensitive about being called a girl. There have been incidents with Amega in the past. That is all I will say about that.

[Andrej]

 

 

BTW Hallia, did Despo suggest to you that you should call amega a madame on the QT? (he is a guy too)  

 

Where is this even coming from? lol

 

Caution: Hallia, I'm defending you now.

 

Despo is quite sensitive about being called a girl. There have been incidents with Amega in the past. That is all I will say about that.

 

 

Lol I know what you're talking about with the girl thing.

 

I meant you calling Hallia scum now too. And linking her to Despo.

 

So let's recap:

 

Des/Tom are scum which leads to:

 

I'm scum for defending them.

Mish is scum for defending them.

Dice is scum because Despo called him a lesser scum read.

Hallia is now scum for calling Amega a girl.

 

Did I miss anyone?

[Andrej]

##vote Dice

 

U GOT MORE BRO??

[Hallia]

 

BTW Hallia, did Despo suggest to you that you should call amega a madame on the QT? (he is a guy too)  

 

Where is this even coming from? lol

 

Caution: Hallia, I'm defending you now.

 

 

it's ok, if you live in the same town as someone else it's no harm no foul

[Lenlo]

So. Many. WoTs.

Mod maybe?

 

Or Lenlo? he was the first to state that someone was a double voter. 

 

Who better to have that power? 

 

Poor mafia. At least no one gave her a baseball bat. that we know of.

 

I did not I fact give it to her.

 

 

Ithi is always town. It is known.

 

Cept for that one game where she wasn't. The fun one with ww2.

 

 

Don't remember anything from TG or Xthrax since game actually started. X posted in another game recently so...

Only thing I remember from Lenlo is fluff. Obv par for the course for him but still. Rags also needs to finally give some thoughts.

CSarmi has some town tone in his posts, but his effort def could be better. I also have a middling read on AJ, would love to flesh that out more.

Think that's everyone.

I just got done with a 14 hour drive. I'm chilling. I'll do some real posting tomorrow hopefully.

[Turin Turambar]

Again at the bottom... At least this is all for me. Thank you.

 

 

Your town reading them based on their actual game actions is amazing to me. It looks like you just want to take their side while not being too obvious about it. hence the hedgespeak or lawyerese.

 

CS questions me so he gets points in your book. So if he votes me does that make him more town in your book? Looking like you are letting a read influence your opinions of others. beware you might have to case yourself.

 

Turin, give me the TLDR version of why you think Despo/Tommy are mafia. I've stated clearly several times now that I have a town lean on them, so I'm not sure what point you are making by saying I'm trying to not be too obvious.

 

CS gets points for catching you making a post that would suggest that you are aware of Ithi's real alignment. This makes him look better independently of your actions IMO.

 

 

 

Fortunately for you, Ithi is not ready to have you guys lynched yet apparently as she is still voting Dice and pressing Cloud.

Nudging pushing one person while voting another is non-town behavior.

 

Ithi is always town. It is known.

 

Ithi is still well within her meta as she was voting cloud and moved when she saw something pingy from Dice. That she hasn't let Cloud off the hook is also classic Ithi.

 

I'm not asking you for what her meta is. You said that pushing others while keeping your vote on another player isn't town behavior, but you're still calling her town. This is a direct contradiction. Sort of reinforces my feeling that you're intentionally buddying her as well because you know that she is town. You can't call one player mafia for something when you call another town for doing the exact same thing.

 

 

##vote Turin

 

Would be happy with Amega as well.

 

Both have made some pretty bad statements.

 

Turin comes across like he knows Ithi is town and is trying his damnest to stay on her good side. His linkage of several players, including myself, to his lock-scum read on Despo is also troubling.

 

Amega starts out by saying that Despo actually appears to be town and that he presented good points on Cloud. Later he backtracks and calls Despo's method of play scummy when it is basically the same thing he was doing N0. He also calls his vote a joke on Tommy (who shares Despo's slot) but decides that he is happy to keep it there cause... why?

So AJ. Do you think that I am mafia? 

 

Just say "I think Turin is mafia" if that is the case. Heck you can even say "I think Amega is mafia" if you want.

 

Why don't you want to be linked to Tess?(it is actually Tommy that I had the near certainty about actually but w/e) You are reading "it" as town. BTW, do you believe they do not have a side chat? Also, why do you have a town read on Tess?

 

My vote on you should say enough as to what I feel your alignment is #lawyer-speak

 

Being linked to Tess doesn't bother me. The issue I have with what you are doing is making such connections without any sort of prior evidence. Is Tess scum? I don't know, but IMO I don't think so. Now if they were to flip scum and later you wanted to link me to them because of our interaction I would understand.

 

Tommy. Not really contributing. The ONLY complete game I have played with Tommy when he was town was RTE's Clash of Divinity. He was very active and truly working for the town's interests. He never acted confused in any way that I recall. He was a bit random but there was definite and clear reasoning for what he was doing. As mafia I find that he will use more personality to just get people to do what he wants. He led Despo aroun for nearly the entire Star Wars game using exactly that technique. My take is that he looks a lot more like he did in Star Wars than he did in Clash of Divinity. The feigned confusion about Cloud's posts is what put him over the top for me.

 

Despo. The awful case on RTE to start( What is your current take on RTE Despo?) The fact that he doesn't see that if you start with junk you end up with junk. No valid conlusions can be drawn if the initial case is faulty. Even if you get lucky and catch someone out of it it is basically framing a guilty person. More commonly it creates a situation where it gets close to deadline and someone comes along and says "I just want a flip now so we can move forward". the person discussed the most gets lynched or has to claim if they are a PR. If it is a VT that gets lynched the leaders all just blame them for not reacting to pressure well enough when the true blame rest in the one that brought the stinky case to start with. The rest of it is the excessive coksure attitude. Basically dismissing the case because he knows there aren't enough people willing to lynch him for his junk. What do you think about the list of claims Hallia made? I see nothing wrong with it. IF people didn't want those things to be quoted they shouldn't have said them in the first place.

*****

 How is what I said about Ithi any different than what you all say about each other with all the #LOCK CLEAR garbage? You doubt that I can read Ithi well? Think again is all I can say about that. You excuse anything Despo and Tommy do because you DON"T WANT TO BELIEVE they could have ulterior motives. I don't assume that about anyone. Even Ithi. But she is on her town form. 

*****

As I said above, I read Ithi pretty well. To me it looks like she sees BOTH Cloud and Dice as Mafia. She wishes to convey that fact. She only has one vote. I have played a few more games with her than you have so I can safely say that What she has done so far this game is indicative of her town play. If you choose to disagree with me then continue to do so.  And the last point is you are saying I am being hypocritical. Ask your Buddy Despo what he thinks about hypocrisy. 

*****

Still refusing to answer a simple direct question. A real townie would just say "yes. I think you are mafia." no hesitation. The fact that you just can't bring yourself to do so is humourous. As is the "i'm too cool to answer" attitude. Weren't you the one that told Csarmi it was a townies job to convince therest of the town that you are in fact town. That you can't just asume everyone knows it. (incidentally, that is also part of the Despo case. He puts himself out as so OBVSTOWN primarily because he has gotten away with it for so long the too many eople just accept everything he does) 

 

About linking without a flip, I disagree completely. you have to make assumptions about how the parts all fit together to solve the entire puzzle. Now there isn't solid evidence as yet but it is perfectly logical to theorise about why the different players are interacting with each other. Once you get additional information then you reevaluate your theory and see if it still makes sense. 

[Turin Turambar]

@ Lenlo, I was mafia that game too. I knew she was mafia but not if she was on my team as I was the other symp. Unfortunately I didn't discover it until she got killed. I did get the person that crated it tho as well. Unfortunately ythat led to my death at the hands of your mafia team.(I know it wasn't your fault) So I didn't get to try to lynch you. It was a fun game tho.

[Turin Turambar]

@AJ, that is what 5 people in a game of nearly 20? sounds within the realm of possibilty.  Even if only 3 of those 5 are correct it is still pretty good for D1, NO?

 

@Hallia, could you respond to my question about the reason for your Amega vote? I am saying that it doesn't make sense to me based on what you said. 

[Turin Turambar]

With that I need to sleep. Losing an hour of sleep tonight. Yes Spring Forward my american friends.

[Xthrax]

Don't remember anything from TG or Xthrax since game actually started. X posted in another game recently so...

 

 

 

My bad, busy trying to stay alive there. I have been reading so, I won't need to catch up much.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

Don't remember anything from TG or Xthrax since game actually started. X posted in another game recently so...

 

Only thing I remember from Lenlo is fluff. Obv par for the course for him but still. Rags also needs to finally give some thoughts.

 

CSarmi has some town tone in his posts, but his effort def could be better. I also have a middling read on AJ, would love to flesh that out more.

 

Think that's everyone.

Let's flesh bro.

BROWN CHICKEN BROWN COW

[hazelkrs1]

Turin is howling so hard ITT it's making me miss my two Siberian huskies ( you Jada and Lexi )

[Xthrax]

Also what is Lock-Clear mean exactly, I know someone answered when Ithi(I think)asked. But then I didn't get it. Is it like you have cleared someone based on something? Based on what exactly?

[Andrej]

Tommy. Not really contributing. The ONLY complete game I have played with Tommy when he was town was RTE's Clash of Divinity. He was very active and truly working for the town's interests. He never acted confused in any way that I recall. He was a bit random but there was definite and clear reasoning for what he was doing. As mafia I find that he will use more personality to just get people to do what he wants. He led Despo aroun for nearly the entire Star Wars game using exactly that technique. My take is that he looks a lot more like he did in Star Wars than he did in Clash of Divinity. The feigned confusion about Cloud's posts is what put him over the top for me.

 

Despo. The awful case on RTE to start( What is your current take on RTE Despo?) The fact that he doesn't see that if you start with junk you end up with junk. No valid conlusions can be drawn if the initial case is faulty. Even if you get lucky and catch someone out of it it is basically framing a guilty person. More commonly it creates a situation where it gets close to deadline and someone comes along and says "I just want a flip now so we can move forward". the person discussed the most gets lynched or has to claim if they are a PR. If it is a VT that gets lynched the leaders all just blame them for not reacting to pressure well enough when the true blame rest in the one that brought the stinky case to start with. The rest of it is the excessive coksure attitude. Basically dismissing the case because he knows there aren't enough people willing to lynch him for his junk. What do you think about the list of claims Hallia made? I see nothing wrong with it. IF people didn't want those things to be quoted they shouldn't have said them in the first place.

*****

 How is what I said about Ithi any different than what you all say about each other with all the #LOCK CLEAR garbage? You doubt that I can read Ithi well? Think again is all I can say about that. You excuse anything Despo and Tommy do because you DON"T WANT TO BELIEVE they could have ulterior motives. I don't assume that about anyone. Even Ithi. But she is on her town form. 

*****

As I said above, I read Ithi pretty well. To me it looks like she sees BOTH Cloud and Dice as Mafia. She wishes to convey that fact. She only has one vote. I have played a few more games with her than you have so I can safely say that What she has done so far this game is indicative of her town play. If you choose to disagree with me then continue to do so.  And the last point is you are saying I am being hypocritical. Ask your Buddy Despo what he thinks about hypocrisy. 

*****

Still refusing to answer a simple direct question. A real townie would just say "yes. I think you are mafia." no hesitation. The fact that you just can't bring yourself to do so is humourous. As is the "i'm too cool to answer" attitude. Weren't you the one that told Csarmi it was a townies job to convince therest of the town that you are in fact town. That you can't just asume everyone knows it. (incidentally, that is also part of the Despo case. He puts himself out as so OBVSTOWN primarily because he has gotten away with it for so long the too many eople just accept everything he does) 

 

About linking without a flip, I disagree completely. you have to make assumptions about how the parts all fit together to solve the entire puzzle. Now there isn't solid evidence as yet but it is perfectly logical to theorise about why the different players are interacting with each other. Once you get additional information then you reevaluate your theory and see if it still makes sense. 

 

If you actually turn up as town I'll keep what you said in mind. I don't see it however, so...

 

I personally have no issue with Hallia posting the role claims/hints. I actually think she raised a good point in defense by saying the scum team would surely be keeping track of them in their QT.

 

I'm glad you're able to see the humor in my wording. I'm doing so intentionally because I find it likewise amusing that you're getting so bothered by it and trying to make it bigger than it actually is. What point are you making by bringing up what I said towards CS?

 

I can understand what you're saying about connecting players. I generally look at interactions the same way as things progress. Allow me to clarify a bit: The core of your linkage is faulty IMO because you are basing them all off the self-proclaimed fact that Dom/Tess is mafia, which I don't agree with. You are using the slightest reasons to name other players their teammates. The only one I could possibly see as plausible is the point you raised against Dice.

 

@AJ, that is what 5 people in a game of nearly 20? sounds within the realm of possibilty.  Even if only 3 of those 5 are correct it is still pretty good for D1, NO?

 

Lol I'm fairly certain none of those are correct with the method you are applying. I know for a fact that one of those you listed aren't Dom's teammate in a scum/scum sense.

[Hallia]

I don't know how many other ways I can word it Turin O.o  I felt what he said warranted a vote, he was in no danger of being speed lynched that I could see, and I've been told that I'm too reluctant to vote, so I'm working on getting better at that.

[Darthe]

Official Vote Count:

 

Dom (2/10): Cloud, Amega

Cloud (2/10): Salami, Wombat

Amega (3/10): Tina, Mish, Hally

Dice (4/10): Ithi, Turin, TG

Turin (2/10): AJ, Tess

 

 

Not Voting (6/18):

Dice, Len, Ley, RTE, Rag, X

 

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

 

You have 33 hours.

[hazelkrs1]

Also what is Lock-Clear mean exactly, I know someone answered when Ithi(I think)asked. But then I didn't get it. Is it like you have cleared someone based on something? Based on what exactly?

Its more of an in-joke really. It's saying someone seems strong town or not warranting of a lynch today.