The Ultimate Showdown: PART DEUX - GAME OVER, Town Wins

[Andrej]

@Turin - Do you understand the fundamentals of what a Hydra is? Your theory completely blows my mind.

 

They share an alignment. They are one in the same. How can one being definite mafia and the other being more than likely mafia be combined into more than likely mafia??

 

What are you even basing this on?

[Andrej]

Also I'm just going to ignore most of what you said.

 

Another example of how your hard-on for Des colors your view of other players. I didn't find anything Des said N0 overly scummy although some of it I did disagree with and commented on. For the most part my 'defense' came from explaining to Cloud how he was wrong in thinking Despo's actions were a scumtell.

[Turin Turambar]

Tommy, I've seen you play as town. This ain't it. As for what I'm doing, it is obviously trying to get all you mafia types lynched. 

 

AJ, Overuled!! Bailiff, Take him away. Schedule him for hanging tomorrow.

[Andrej]

FTR I actually feel better about Tommy cause he isn't buddying anyone.

 

Would like to know his thoughts on the Mish-switch though.

[Turin Turambar]

AJ, the point is that since they do share alignment if one is mafia then they both are. So if one appears mafia then they both are. My opinion is they both are >rand to be mafia. That one is pinging more than the other is all I was saying.

 

You trying to spin it another way is silly. Additionally, stating you will ignore anyone in the game is a mistake IMO.

 

You disagree with Despo and say it is null. You disagree with me and are going to ignore everything I say. Not town behavior that.

 

You say you didn't defend Despo, I say you did by arguing that his behaviors were null. Basically giving them a pass.

 

AJ, you doing enough buddying for three.

[Turin Turambar]

Apparently none of you know what a town game of mine looks like

If you can't clear me, clear despot

Show why you deserve to be cleared.

[hazelkrs1]

Le sigh, Turin. You once had such a good game. Cant really say it's rust still, can you? Cause really, it's jusy gotten sad.

[Andrej]

Okay, that makes a LITTLE more sense now that you explained it more clearly. I still disagree though. Not sure how you are saying I'm trying to spin it though, I asked you a question based on the exact words you typed. You just did a poor job of explaining yourself in the first place, which is on you bud.

 

Also, don't assume that I'm actually going to ignore you. Don't be so touchy. I see all That said though, I do find your linkage of other players to your scum read to be rather baseless without any sort of solid evidence to prove it. Borderline scummy but I would say it's your meta to tunnel Despo regardless so I'll leave it at null.

 

 

Are you jealous that I'm not buddying you Turin, is that it?

 

 

[amegakure]

Le sigh, Turin. You once had such a good game. Cant really say it's rust still, can you? Cause really, it's jusy gotten sad.

 

Maybe his game is actually spot on.. and your taking advantage of his meta on you. And then proceed to degrade his skills and thought process to make him appear irrational.

 

Just a thought

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

Le sigh, Turin. You once had such a good game. Cant really say it's rust still, can you? Cause really, it's jusy gotten sad.

Maybe his game is actually spot on.. and your taking advantage of his meta on you. And then proceed to degrade his skills and thought process to make him appear irrational.

 

Just a thought

Nope.

 

And this entire post is pure WIFOM btw. No stance taken, just a scummy scummy devil's advocate post. FOS.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Turin says a whole lot of stuff.

 

AJ initially says is rubbish - but then backtracks and says it makes sense.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

#Dice

#Cloud

#AJ

 

...

[Andrej]

Ithi - read these quotes plz and tell me if you were able to draw the conclusion he comes to in the 2nd post by reading the 1st.

 

Tommy is definitely mafia and Despo is more likely than not mafia.( that whole LOCK CLEAR thing was fibbery) So between the two of you you are a combined most likely mafia. 

 

AJ, the point is that since they do share alignment if one is mafia then they both are. So if one appears mafia then they both are. My opinion is they both are >rand to be mafia. That one is pinging more than the other is all I was saying.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Also I'm just going to ignore most of what you said.

 

Another example of how your hard-on for Des colors your view of other players. I didn't find anything Des said N0 overly scummy although some of it I did disagree with and commented on. For the most part my 'defense' came from explaining to Cloud how he was wrong in thinking Despo's actions were a scumtell.

Tell me how you go from wishing to completely discount Turin's theory as tunnelling on Despo, to 'hey I'm not actually going to ignore you' to ... Ithi - you tell me you don't see Turin's logic.

 

Is there anyone you WON'T defend atm?

[Andrej]

lol what are you even saying?

 

@ignoring - sarcasm.

 

You said I backtracked. I am showing you an example of how unclear his first post was and how I was able to understand in the 2nd when he clarified. I'm asking you if you were able to understand his point he makes in the 2nd based on the first quote alone. I never said I agreed with it or thought it was sound. The exact opposite, actually. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

Saying you were being sarcastic is just a way of trying to give yourself a get out of jail free card for saying ridiculous or mean things.

 

My point is.

 

You said turin was tunnelling and talking rubbish. And now you say his point make sense. But you don't agree with it?

 

 

That's a very nice flat grey fence sitting position to take.

 

Anyways. Saturday morning. Time for crumpets and Meatballs 2. It's a nice day. We might go to the park later.

[Hallia]

Finally got to read the thread after bowling tonight.

 

Role Claims/Hints (Some are probably jokes but here they are)

 

Amega: Lord and Savior

AJ: Indy God

Turin: VT

Wombat: VT

 

 

Noticed:

 

Des: Accuses RTE of role fishing/RTE Defends The argument itself didn't really make me lean one way or the other on either of them.  What was noticeable (and not just to me as I see more votes on him)  was Cloud riding in to defend RTE (AJ did as well by agreeing with Cloud)  After taking some criticism and some arguing back and forth it felt to me that Cloud got upset and left.  At first I didn't see anything wrong with Cloud sticking up with what he thought was right, but his reaction to people prodding at his argument fell flat. 

 

RTE: Got game moving, good man, you can be town.

 

##Vote Cloud

[Andrej]

My point is.

 

You said turin was tunnelling and talking rubbish. And now you say his point make sense. But you don't agree with it?

 

He is tunneling and talking rubbish. I'm not saying his point makes sense, I am saying that I can finally understand what he was trying to say in the first place once he clarified.

 

Basically his scum list goes like this:

 

Despo is mafia (which is a given for his sake) therefore Tommy is also mafia.

 

AJ has defended them = he is mafia.

 

Mish has also defended them = she is mafia.

 

Now, do you find this sort of linkage plausible without a coroner on Despo to make such assumptions? Do you think his opinion toward Des/Tommy's alignment is accurate with the reasons he has provided?

[_CLOUD]

Cloud seems to be deliberately avoiding me. I wonder why?

Where did you get the idea from that I’m avoiding you? I will like I always have point out when I agree and disagree with you about something.

 

Sleep might be good; you're obviously not in the right frame of mind if you think Des is the scummiest player ITT.

 

I keep finding myself scratching my head at your posts.

Who do you think is the scummiest player in the game besides me? You did sign up for this game and so I expect you to at least make some effort in participating. I also don’t like this post because instead of attacking the points that I made against Despo you choose to attack my skills as a scumhunter. I have seen Despo do the same thing in this game a couple of times and I don’t like it because it gives a player an excuse to attack someone without even addressing his arguments.

 

Good to know, I never read the last game.

Tina, I’m dying to hear what your reads are so far. You are usually a lot more active at the start of mafia games.

 

 

 

Mish said Hydra sound more like a Town Role.

 

I don't think anything is guaranteed ... Also I'm not really certain of what a hydra is.

 

And you'll have to bear with me, I'm playing Heartstone.

I don't know alot about hydra and if it's more commonly a town or mafia role. But to me it seems like two persons "sharing" one slot/one vote like it seems Des and Tom does, seems like a bad thing for mafia; it's one more person to interact with people and maybe slip up.

 

 

Cloud, I honestly think you are reaching a bit, and also slightly lost in the tunnel

 

A Hydra isn’t a role; it’s a game mechanic that allows two players to share the same slot so they can be of either allignment. You are right that it’s a risky thing for the mafia because the chance is higher that one of them will slip-up so it’s convenient that Tom isn't taking the game serious. He is dismissing any point that is brought against him with either whyme fryme or jokingly remarks.

 

Despo actually had some valid points on cloud.. gonna watch that for abit. Might place a vote on him after he responds.

I already responded to Despo. Check posts #601 and #619.

 

 

 

I also expect a lot more sheep to just follow onto my train in the next couple of hours.

Im currently reading Cloud as his usual "really am town but gonna get lynched day 1" but this post makes me want to vote him

 

By doing that you would only confirm what I just said. I find it suspicious that after reading through the entire thread you only chose to reply to my post where I express my dislike about sheeping, and nudge my train without actually committing to it and addressing the points that I brought up against Despo and how they in your opinion don’t make sense.

 

 

Im sorry but I musta missed something. Whats with the sudden switch to Dice?

What are your reads? I’m starting to get tired of several players in this game who are apparently caught up but choose to not talk about the game and only chat with others players.

 

##Lynch Mish

 

So I'm not obvious scum after all? Why did you vote for Mish and not any other player with a lower post count than yours?

 

 

Tommy is talking a lot without really saying anything. Also the feigned confusion at Cloud's posts are shtick he has used previously as mafia.

Despo with his awful case and blindness about how his "crying wolf" which is what pushing bad cases is hurts town overall. Also one of your main points that if someone said there role was a variant that automatically meant that it was nerfed is faulty in the extreme. Further you have no clue about what roles were actually submitted. RTE could have started out as a bulletproof/double vig/ninja/oracle and only had the double vig reduced to a single vig so still mighty stout. cloud could have started out as a regular cop but got watcher added. buffed but which is overall more powerful? Finally your take would require the person giving the information to be honest. Which is a stretch. Except for me. I am VT (well currently)

Finally! A person who understands what I have been trying to make clear all this time!

 

 

This entire situation revolving around Despo basically comes down to him acting scummy on purpose (yes, building cases that you know are fake or weak is acting scummy on purpose) and then calling out a player (me) who confronts him with said case. People are defending Despo because they think it falls within his meta to act like this which is true, but they are also dismissing the way Despo has refused to be helpful to the town by not answering questions and addressing valid arguments, attacking people's playstyles instead of their arguments, and most importantly of all kept pushing the same unlogical arguments for the entirety of Night 0. His defense is that he does this all the time, but I don't find this an acceptable excuse because every time he feverously pushes for someone with a weak case and someone calls him out for it he can just cry that it was a trap and that would be the end of it. Tom's play, or better said lack thereof, and vote switching also hasn't been pro-town.

 

 

I don't see the issue with AJ misinterpreting the first paragraph of Turin's post. I thought Turin was very clear in explaining himself but I can see where the confusion might come from.

 

Hallia votes for me because I was defending RTE but doesn't point out how AJ did the same thing with Despo.

[_CLOUD]

Salami what do you think about Dice?

[hazelkrs1]

Stuff I wanted to respond to before:

 

The butthurt is strong in this one.

 

Why are you sensitive about what people think about your meta? We only are allowed to have one Ley per game

 

JK Ley

 

There was no butthurt. I don't give a crap what people think about my meta, I have proven many times over that my playstyle helps my team win, and my record shows.

 

I DO give a crap about finding scum however. Debating about how useful or effective my playstyle is won't really accomplish that, will just derail the scumhunt.

 

This just looks like a crap attempt to get under my skin. There are those who think the best way to handle me as mafia is get under my skin to throw me off my game... that hasn't worked since Kingdom of Hearts and likely won't work again.

 

24 pages before i even get to sign in? Yep definitely a BT game     I am gonna have SOOOOO much catch up every day!

 

 

I envision an Ithi vs Tommy showdown.

#GonnaBeEpic

 

Ithi wins cause Tommy never has a gun

 

I don't got no clique.

NOT EVEN TURIN BEFORE ALL THAT STARTS


They just missed me is all.

 

Takes off his jacket that says "i wanna be in Ithi's clique" sadly

 

D3 just got an awesome update and now the game is so beautiful. Check it out yo. 

 

Yo RTE if ure on Americas look for me    is there as Dicetosser

 

Just wanted to point out since I didn't see anyone else do so- HARDCORE buddying in this post. Blech.

 

My PM also suggests that my allignment is subject to change. I'm however not sure if that confirms the existence of a cult or that it's just part of the game mechanics. I guess we shall find out sooner or later.

 

Cloud trying to hop on Ithi's coattails regarding the changing alignment thing is pretty lame. Also notice how he carefully words this post? Doesn't say that he's "town for now" or anything like that? Worried about a LD much Cloud?

 

 

 

So Tom what are your reads so far?

Tendency toward useless questioning documented.

 

Backup of scumdar documentation file regarding Player "_Cloud" completed. (This)

 

Wombat, I will point out when I see a player going after someone else by using in my opinion thin reasoning.

 

You didn't just point it out tho... you told me to stop. Let's say hypothetically I WAS scum, and decided to listen and stahp as you commanded me. This could have then let me slip off of people's radars, instead of you gathering more evidence to lynch me with.

 

Like I said, there is ZERO town motivation in telling someone to STOP doing something you find scummy or off.

 

No, I can't elaborate more, I can't point you to actual posts.

 

While your obtuse tone was par for the course for you while Tina questioned you about tone, I def gotta take exception to this.

 

It really shouldn't be that difficult to fetch quotes and show the tone you speak of Csarmi.

 

Despo actually had some valid points on cloud.. gonna watch that for abit. Might place a vote on him after he responds.

 

Csarmi is role hinting.. probably some convoluted form of coroner from his statement. Not really relevant tho since the majority have god like roles. 

 

The tom and des thing does seem like a town role. i dont know tom, but the way des is acting seems very rational compared to when i saw him as scum

 

Look des i remembered your gender sorta... actually typed it wrong at first, but yea... its progress.

 

Disgusting post. First line is nudging AND you say you might place a vote on him after he responds.... He already DID respond to my case bro. Second line is you apparently looking RULL hard for role hints- a clear scum motivation. Third line is bad for the reasons Ithi mentioned ("town roles" don't really exist in this game really) and you also clear me off of ambiguous wording (where am I rational?). Fourth line is possible buddying.

 

Ithi is hilarious... 

 

Tina are you just burying your day one vote or are my scum tells just that obvious 

 

Andddddd then we got a whyme fryme alert. So you comment on very little but nudge the Cloud train, say you'll vote there after he responds even tho he already did, and then throw out what is essentially a scum claim here by being so concerned with one vote on you that you felt the need to comment on it, but self-conscious enough to add a smiley to make it seem like you're being so casual about it. Bleurgh.

 

I sleEping but just want say - mafia is in small things.

Dice got voted. Vanished. He prob say not around didn't see - but made big moany post about hash hash voting.

So he had plenty time and was nOt juSt rush thing. That post was sposed be hmmmmm good thoughts from Dice ... But not work.

Think on small things. Double defence noted. Nanight.

 

I think you're really reaching with the "disappearing act" you keep calling on people btw. For someone to be FROZEN (another term that caught popularity while you're gone, basically someone ducking the game thread cause they have no defense against someone's argument lol), it really should be longer than a few minutes or even hours imo. I mean, if they were super active but THEN all of a sudden cut off after someone wtfpwned them in a case it would be understandable, but both people you've fos'd over this (Mish and Dice) weren't really that active in the game to begin with, and one is a notorious lurker/coaster.

 

Haha, not like I really had a choice with Darthe calling us "Dom" and "Tess" in the vote count.

 

Yup. Pretty much.

 

 

##unplug Tommy

 

And then a joke unformatted vote on Tom. Howl on, wolf.

 

Oh, but Despo is mafia , Tommy is his robot lover.

AJ is buddying/defending more than me.

I.need to step up my game.

FULL ITHI SHEEP MODE ENGAGED 

 

So HERE I am the one who's def mafia, Tommy is my sidekick or something...

 

Tess(even in hydra mode despothera has a girl's name, lol) Tom/Des, will you hard claim that you are in fact a single slot in this game hence the lack of a vote from Despo after Tommy had already voted? 

 

Tommy is definitely mafia and Despo is more likely than not mafia.( that whole LOCK CLEAR thing was fibbery) So between the two of you you are a combined most likely mafia. Fortunately for you, Ithi is not ready to have you guys lynched yet apparently as she is still voting Dice and pressing Cloud. Therefore since you are mafia it is very odd to me the level at which AJ is defending you both. Mish to a lesser extent but there was a definite amount of let's just wait a while to look into them. This all smacks of "one more day" which is classic mafia strategy.

 

Tommy is talking a lot without really saying anything. Also the feigned confusion at Cloud's posts are shtick he has used previously as mafia.

Despo with his awful case and blindness about how his "crying wolf" which is what pushing bad cases is hurts town overall. Also one of your main points that if someone said there role was a variant that automatically meant that it was nerfed is faulty in the extreme. Further you have no clue about what roles were actually submitted. RTE could have started out as a bulletproof/double vig/ninja/oracle and only had the double vig reduced to a single vig so still mighty stout. cloud could have started out as a regular cop but got watcher added. buffed but which is overall more powerful? Finally your take would require the person giving the information to be honest. Which is a stretch. Except for me. I am VT (well currently)

AJ is defending like mad and IMO has a lawyery feel to his posts.

Mish has time issues apparently but still got in to defend Tess on a mechanical level(that a hydra would be less likely mafia cause it would be harder?) and also took a shot at Cloud with the tunnel line.

 

##Unvote

##Vote Tess

 

I would say that our  mafia snagging percentage is approximately 86.3%

 

willing to consider anyone on that list. Or jump back to Dice if Ithi thinks that is best

 

Yet here Tommy is the one who is def mafia and I am >rand to be mafia. Okay then.

 

 

Also italics (in your quote I mean) is a lame backtrack.

 

And to respond to your case on me:

 

 

 

Seriously. The entire paragraph you only talk about my original pressure on RTE which was an OBVIOUS #gamestarter, and this is the ONLY point you make against me even tho A) I was def mafia earlier and B) am >rand to be mafia now. And it's a TURRIBLE POINT.

 

 

---

 

Scum = Amega (now my highest read incidentally), Cloud, Turin, Dice, Csarmi (for being overly obtuse with Tina and being less involved in the scumhunt than normal).

[hazelkrs1]

Tina, I’m dying to hear what your reads are so far. You are usually a lot more active at the start of mafia games.

Whaaaaa??? This is just patently false man. Tina is a late bloomer in mafia games. She doesn't lurk or coast hardcore usually, but she DEF isn't usually one of the most active early on. Looks like a lazy attempt to redirect focus anywhere you can.

 

This entire situation revolving around Despo basically comes down to him acting scummy on purpose (yes, building cases that you know are fake or weak is acting scummy on purpose) and then calling out a player (me) who confronts him with said case. People are defending Despo because they think it falls within his meta to act like this which is true, but they are also dismissing the way Despo has refused to be helpful to the town by not answering questions and addressing valid arguments, attacking people's playstyles instead of their arguments, and most importantly of all kept pushing the same unlogical arguments for the entirety of Night 0. His defense is that he does this all the time, but I don't find this an acceptable excuse because every time he feverously pushes for someone with a weak case and someone calls him out for it he can just cry that it was a trap and that would be the end of it. Tom's play, or better said lack thereof, and vote switching also hasn't been pro-town.

1. Building fake or weak cases is NOT acting scummy on purpose, ESPECIALLY given the intentions that accompany those type of moves. At the start of games, there will be ZERO strong cases that can be made. The only cases that CAN be made to help start the game will be weak ones. I attempt to get gameplay started as soon as possible in every game I play. Fake cases if done in a town gambit to try and catch scum are risky yes, but it's still not acting scummy on purpose. It's masking your intentions to see if you can trick scum into exposing themselves. It's a high-level tier play that is used by pros all the time.

 

2. You didn't confront me on it... you told me to stahp. You didn't try interrogating me to try and uncover my intentions... you told me to stahp. You didn't say you found me scummy (at the time)... you told me to stahp. Try reconciling this before trying to come at me again.

 

3. Attacking someone for something that is null for them is WORTH being called out on.

 

4. You have not made any valid arguments nor asked any questions worth answering. I was charitable with that one cause I'm such a great guy ( ). Otherwise I'm looking at you as scum till you start showing me otherwise (hint: bulldogging this issue about my #gamestarter push on someone will NOT do so). I'm usually not as bothered to respond to scum queries. I'll point out where they flub up, but I see their questions or requests as crabs trying to scrape their way out of the crab pit. Otherwise I've been more than helpful and willing to discuss multiple topics and avenues of query.

 

5. Only person's playstyleI attacked this game was Turin's, and he deserves it. First of all, it was a remark made in comparison to play I've seen from him in the past, which was much better.

 

Second, the manner in which he tunnels me destroys absolutely any credibility or clout he ever once had in mafia. If he's scum and I'm town, he can mask meta by tunneling but as soon as I prove myself town or flip town, he has to go "Whoops! Guess I was wrong and hafta start all over!" and ends up looking useless and gives town zero reason to not lynch him. If he's town and I'm town, he lets his scumhunting talents go to waste by letting confirmation bias own his face hard, and potentially derails the scumhunt. One of the worst positions is when he's town and I'm scum- everyone just ignores his points against me most the time and I and my team laugh their way to victory. The only time this tactic is ever really effective is when we're both scum together.

 

Third, his case against me was total crap, just like the same stuff you've been spewing for a while now.

 

6. Don't hate on me because I'm stylin on yo scum ass

 

 

Seriously tho, you can complain about my playstyle all you want and how I can back off a weak case and call it a trap, but the fact is my style works, and even more importantly it's the way I enjoy playing the most. When I'm scum, obviously I have a good built-in excuse for backtracking or something. As town tho, those fake or weak cases help me start producing reactions from a ton of people, which gives town tons of info to look through later on.

 

No joke, and yes this is tooting my own horn, but there are few players who get reactions as efficiently as I do, and as regularly. Reactions are such a huge part of what the game is built on, and my frenetic playstyle often helps generate a ton.

 

And the funny thing is, something you're failing to grasp or unwilling to see because you're scum is that it often doesn't matter all that much WHAT you're pressuring someone about. Do you know how often I've seen town "catch" scum on something extremely arbitrary and they happen to get lucky? Seriously, it makes little difference if you have something concrete to attack the person on, or if you're fabricating stuff out of thin air. If you go at the person with full conviction like you TRULY believe you found the Holy Grail of scumslips, you're more likely to get some good reactions and see if you struck gold or not. If you sit around and wait till something concrete comes along, you'll likely just end up lynching the scummiest townie most the time.

[csarmi]

Salami what do you think about Dice?

 

No, I can't elaborate more, I can't point you to actual posts.

 

While your obtuse tone was par for the course for you while Tina questioned you about tone, I def gotta take exception to this.

 

It really shouldn't be that difficult to fetch quotes and show the tone you speak of Csarmi.

 

Don't disturb me. I'm busy sunbathing and reading the Words of Radiance.

[csarmi]

From what I skimmed, Despo > Cloud. No idea about Dice. Must have skipped it.

[hazelkrs1]

From what I skimmed, Despo > Cloud. No idea about Dice. Must have skipped it.

 

Not much to see tbh. I found his early buddying to be worse than the post Ithi pointed out (here is where she does so), but I would rather the trains be between Cloud and Amega today. Case on Dice not nearly as strong as case on those two.

[hazelkrs1]

His nudge was bad, but I've seen that kind of thing from Dice a lot. Either way the sudden train on him could have had someone trying to derail the Cloud lynch (my bet would be Turin).