The Ultimate Showdown: PART DEUX - GAME OVER, Town Wins

[dicetosser1]

apparently i did not make myself clear enough in that previous post. the comment you are harping on about Ithi is me commenting on a post by Turin. Not my reasons for voting him.

 

 

 

Dice, can I get your reads on everyone in the game please? Some followup questions to go along with that-

 

Who do you think is the best lynch choice for today? If your top choice wasn't available for w/e reason, who would your next choice be?

 

Who do you think would be the best info lynch today?

 

If you had a vig shot, who would you shoot?

 

Is there anyone that you think is playing antitown but is less likely to be mafia? If yes, what do you think the best way to deal with that person is?

 

Thanks in advance.

Town

Cloud

Tess

Ithi

 

Mafia

Turin

 

those are my feel confident reads

 

leaning mafia on xthrax and wom but dont have a strong readon. Something about xthraxs last big post struck me as off but not something i can define

 

leaning town on csarmi simply cause he hasnt been around for a while  feels like he has forgotten and if he had a juicy or mafia role i don't think he would do that

 

1 Turin is the best lynch.  2nd id be likely to go wombat but like i said above there isnt much reason to it

 

2 For info second best would be cloud probably that would cast some light on a lot of discussion.

 

3 id shoot a quiet one. Rags probably. assuming i cant get turin lynched of course

 

Ive pretty clearly said i think cloud is town. Even tho he is being viewed as scummy. I have no idea how best to deal with that. I dont think lynching him without a real reason is a good way but

[dicetosser1]

i got cloudflared trying to respond to you ithi   took 3 tries to get back on

[hazelkrs1]

Good grief DM

 

i also never said that that previous post was my reason for voting him.

Dice states clearly and out in the open that the things he puts in his posts when he votes are not the reasons for voting them.

 

LMAO

 

 

Also @ Despo - I decline to acquiesce to your request at this time. Play your own game.

 

Asking lots of questions of people to make you seem like Town Intelligence Gatherer is doing you no favours in my book.

 

 

First of all- your point against Dice in this post didn't really make sense to me. Only way it does is if Dice had not previously mentioned seeing Turin as possibly scum, but I think he did. If someone has already stated they find someone scummy, then voting them later doesn't always have to have their original reasoning.

 

Second- I'm not trying to be a Town Intelligence Gatherer. I'm trying to see if this is town on town or what. Haven't read Dice's reaction yet, but there is nothing protown about refusing to answer questions of mine. Right now you're tunneling on Dice, and might be experiencing severe confirmation bias. I want to see if this is the case, if you are right and that Dice is scum, or if you're scum trying to lead town off a cliff (I highly doubt the last one, fwiw).

 

No reason at all to respond hostilely to that kind of request.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Despo says I'm being hostile because I said no.

 

Interesting.

[hazelkrs1]

apparently i did not make myself clear enough in that previous post. the comment you are harping on about Ithi is me commenting on a post by Turin. Not my reasons for voting him.

 

 

 

Dice, can I get your reads on everyone in the game please? Some followup questions to go along with that-

 

Who do you think is the best lynch choice for today? If your top choice wasn't available for w/e reason, who would your next choice be?

 

Who do you think would be the best info lynch today?

 

If you had a vig shot, who would you shoot?

 

Is there anyone that you think is playing antitown but is less likely to be mafia? If yes, what do you think the best way to deal with that person is?

 

Thanks in advance.

Town

Cloud

Tess

Ithi

 

Mafia

Turin

 

those are my feel confident reads

 

leaning mafia on xthrax and wom but dont have a strong readon. Something about xthraxs last big post struck me as off but not something i can define

 

leaning town on csarmi simply cause he hasnt been around for a while  feels like he has forgotten and if he had a juicy or mafia role i don't think he would do that

 

1 Turin is the best lynch.  2nd id be likely to go wombat but like i said above there isnt much reason to it

 

2 For info second best would be cloud probably that would cast some light on a lot of discussion.

 

3 id shoot a quiet one. Rags probably. assuming i cant get turin lynched of course

 

Ive pretty clearly said i think cloud is town. Even tho he is being viewed as scummy. I have no idea how best to deal with that. I dont think lynching him without a real reason is a good way but

 

 

Not bad. Altho I did ask for a reads list I believe- indicating I'd like to know your thoughts on all players. "Null on everyone else" won't really be an acceptable response btw.

[csarmi]

What Dice became active?

 

That's weird.

[csarmi]

BTW I'm having all this day off.

[hazelkrs1]

Despo says I'm being hostile because I said no.

 

Interesting.

 

You're being hostile because you're getting your hackles raised over a simple question. Refusing to answer on some kind of... "I'm not going to play your game" type basis is kinda silly, this is mafia. Even if you do find me more likely to be mafia, refusing to discuss something or answer a query is basically depriving town of information and gameplay. It's being obstructive to the scumhunt. I'd rather keep info and reactions flowing.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I'm not the one bristling here.

 

I choose not to be told how to play the game.

 

AND

 

I need to go deal with the bed bouncing now so adios :)

[dicetosser1]

honestly des? I cant give you much more atm. Lots of people have barely been here. Ley never signed in  has rags even posted yet?  mish and hallia i went to respond on but i think i may be thinking of the House game so i left them alone.

 

Tina hasn't said much but if asked for a read  (as i have been :D) id lean town

 

i think i missed something with len. I dont remember anything about him giving stuff out.

 

AJ   i can see why people are saying he is defending a lot but i wouldnt vote him on it but i also wont discount him

[Ithillian Turambar]

refusing to discuss something or answer a query is basically depriving town of information and gameplay. It's being obstructive to the scumhunt.

It deprives the Mafia Team also.

 

Carpet Picnic.

[dicetosser1]

and i haven't figured out why people are riding amega   aqgain i think i missed something

[dicetosser1]

am off to bed will check in the morning

[hazelkrs1]

I'm not the one bristling here.

 

I choose not to be told how to play the game.

 

AND

 

I need to go deal with the bed bouncing now so adios :)

 

Bold: :huh: :huh:

 

I never told you how to play the game. I asked a question. You refused to respond. Refusing to interact with certain players or answer their questions is far more likely to be scum behavior than town behavior. Playing like you have something to hide will always get others to bristle in mafia.

 

...

 

What am i missing here?

[hazelkrs1]

honestly des? I cant give you much more atm. Lots of people have barely been here. Ley never signed in  has rags even posted yet?  mish and hallia i went to respond on but i think i may be thinking of the House game so i left them alone.

 

Tina hasn't said much but if asked for a read  (as i have been :D) id lean town

 

i think i missed something with len. I dont remember anything about him giving stuff out.

 

AJ   i can see why people are saying he is defending a lot but i wouldnt vote him on it but i also wont discount him

 

Meh. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

Oh dear me.

 

I've not hidden anything at all about what I've thought or done in this game.

 

And now, because I won't do what you want, you say I'm being scummy.

 

Do you think I'm mafia or do you just post stuff without thinking? You need to ease up on the control.

[hazelkrs1]

You're being ridiculously obtuse Ithi. I never tried to control you or tell you what to do, quit misrepping and acting like such a damsel in distress. I asked you a question.

 

I didn't think you were mafia before but your continued obstinance on this is troubling to say the least. It's like you trying to fake a reaction or somewhat.

 

I mean you'd have to, because once again I never tried to get you to do what I wanted. I myself wanted to see if the interaction between you and Dice might be town on town violence, or something else. That's it. Dice was willing to respond to my questions, you're the one deliberately stamping your foot on the ground over nothing.

[Turin Turambar]

I don't know how many other ways I can word it Turin O.o  I felt what he said warranted a vote, he was in no danger of being speed lynched that I could see, and I've been told that I'm too reluctant to vote, so I'm working on getting better at that.

What was it that he said that warranted a vote? I am trying to be as blunt as possible because it looks to me like you basically made up a reason (that he said he wasn't going to read my post, which I do not think was what he meant) and now that your previously stated reason is invalid you are playing like you don't understand while leaving your vote there. 

 

So Other than Amega, who would you be willing to lynch today?

[Turin Turambar]

 

Tommy. Not really contributing. The ONLY complete game I have played with Tommy when he was town was RTE's Clash of Divinity. He was very active and truly working for the town's interests. He never acted confused in any way that I recall. He was a bit random but there was definite and clear reasoning for what he was doing. As mafia I find that he will use more personality to just get people to do what he wants. He led Despo aroun for nearly the entire Star Wars game using exactly that technique. My take is that he looks a lot more like he did in Star Wars than he did in Clash of Divinity. The feigned confusion about Cloud's posts is what put him over the top for me.

 

Despo. The awful case on RTE to start( What is your current take on RTE Despo?) The fact that he doesn't see that if you start with junk you end up with junk. No valid conlusions can be drawn if the initial case is faulty. Even if you get lucky and catch someone out of it it is basically framing a guilty person. More commonly it creates a situation where it gets close to deadline and someone comes along and says "I just want a flip now so we can move forward". the person discussed the most gets lynched or has to claim if they are a PR. If it is a VT that gets lynched the leaders all just blame them for not reacting to pressure well enough when the true blame rest in the one that brought the stinky case to start with. The rest of it is the excessive coksure attitude. Basically dismissing the case because he knows there aren't enough people willing to lynch him for his junk. What do you think about the list of claims Hallia made? I see nothing wrong with it. IF people didn't want those things to be quoted they shouldn't have said them in the first place.

*****

 How is what I said about Ithi any different than what you all say about each other with all the #LOCK CLEAR garbage? You doubt that I can read Ithi well? Think again is all I can say about that. You excuse anything Despo and Tommy do because you DON"T WANT TO BELIEVE they could have ulterior motives. I don't assume that about anyone. Even Ithi. But she is on her town form. 

*****

As I said above, I read Ithi pretty well. To me it looks like she sees BOTH Cloud and Dice as Mafia. She wishes to convey that fact. She only has one vote. I have played a few more games with her than you have so I can safely say that What she has done so far this game is indicative of her town play. If you choose to disagree with me then continue to do so.  And the last point is you are saying I am being hypocritical. Ask your Buddy Despo what he thinks about hypocrisy. 

*****

Still refusing to answer a simple direct question. A real townie would just say "yes. I think you are mafia." no hesitation. The fact that you just can't bring yourself to do so is humourous. As is the "i'm too cool to answer" attitude. Weren't you the one that told Csarmi it was a townies job to convince therest of the town that you are in fact town. That you can't just asume everyone knows it. (incidentally, that is also part of the Despo case. He puts himself out as so OBVSTOWN primarily because he has gotten away with it for so long the too many eople just accept everything he does) 

 

About linking without a flip, I disagree completely. you have to make assumptions about how the parts all fit together to solve the entire puzzle. Now there isn't solid evidence as yet but it is perfectly logical to theorise about why the different players are interacting with each other. Once you get additional information then you reevaluate your theory and see if it still makes sense. 

 

If you actually turn up as town I'll keep what you said in mind. I don't see it however, so...

 

I personally have no issue with Hallia posting the role claims/hints. I actually think she raised a good point in defense by saying the scum team would surely be keeping track of them in their QT.

 

I'm glad you're able to see the humor in my wording. I'm doing so intentionally because I find it likewise amusing that you're getting so bothered by it and trying to make it bigger than it actually is. What point are you making by bringing up what I said towards CS?

 

I can understand what you're saying about connecting players. I generally look at interactions the same way as things progress. Allow me to clarify a bit: The core of your linkage is faulty IMO because you are basing them all off the self-proclaimed fact that Dom/Tess is mafia, which I don't agree with. You are using the slightest reasons to name other players their teammates. The only one I could possibly see as plausible is the point you raised against Dice.

 

@AJ, that is what 5 people in a game of nearly 20? sounds within the realm of possibilty.  Even if only 3 of those 5 are correct it is still pretty good for D1, NO?

 

Lol I'm fairly certain none of those are correct with the method you are applying. I know for a fact that one of those you listed aren't Dom's teammate in a scum/scum sense.

 

FIRST QUOTE: You should consider what everyone says regardless of alignment. You might want to filter it in different ways once you have seen their flip but you should NEVER discount anything anyone says in thread. Mafia will frequently case sometimes even out teammates. You wish to wait to theorise I guess that is your prerogative.

 

So Do you have a problem with Mish and Despo calling out Hallia for posting said list? Why do you think they would do that?

 

Townies should be as clear in their responses and statements as possible. That you are not being such is a bad sign. You claim to be doing it for a joke but it very easily reads as being obfuscating mafia. As I noted earlier your general mode this game has been to lawyerspeak your way through to prevent anyone from getting a handle on you. Maybe you really are an Indie god. But you smell like mafia to me.

 

SECOND QUOTE: how can you be certain (even fairly so) that NONE of these people are mafia? They not in your QT? My methods may differ from yours but I have caught my fair share of mafia/3rd party in my day.

 

Who do you KNOW for a fact isn't Tess' teammate in a mafia/mafia sense. Yourself? why word it in that manner? you are being very careful in your wording AJ. it pings pretty hard. 

[Turin Turambar]

sorry been sick for 2 days and thought DM weekend would save me a big catch up   forgot about this being in the BT.

 

the ithi clique thing was my first post. I havent played with her in ages   did that instead of joke voting.

 

so because dxes thinks i MIGHT be scum   which he thinks i am most of the time turin thinks voting me will get to des...that logic makes my head hurt. 

 

I do agree that Turin is flailing. Even Ithi seems to be getting ready to examine him and he seems to be the last person she looks at D1.

 

I will say it Turin   I think you are mafia.

 

##vote Turin

The reasoning of you to Despo is that he states you as a mafia read but seems to wish to put others ahead of you. This is classic mafia play to look like you are suspect of a teammate without actually having to buss them. Also in the event of a train building that cannot be derailed it makes it easier to jump on without looking so much like a bus vote.

 

Thank you for at least stating that you think I am mafia. Why do you think AJ refuses to say so? and what do think of that?

[Turin Turambar]

Quick thoughts- I would lerve to hammer Amega, Turin, Dice, or Cloud. Eh and might as well reveal this now before it becomes another point of discussion-

 

The nature of Dom's role (did I just refer to us in 4th person???) prevents me from being able to vote anytime I want. I can hammer, but my vote won't count until then. Tommy is free to vote whom he wants, but we have to vote for the same person. If I hammer someone and his vote is elsewhere, it will remove his vote.

 

Kinda stinks cause my schedule will likely keep me from being able to vote as often as I would like. Oh well /shrug

 

And as a quick note- I'll be off the next 3 nights so I might not be as active. Will try not to miss the opportunity to hammer tho, especially if it's Amega or Turin.

 

Can we test this claim? make a properly formatted vote on someone, even me and see what happens to the VC? 

 

Why not Dice? he is one of your mafia reads too right? 

[Turin Turambar]

i also never said that that previous post was my reason for voting him.  Would you like to twist my words some more?

 

 

sorry been sick for 2 days and thought DM weekend would save me a big catch up   forgot about this being in the BT.

 

the ithi clique thing was my first post. I havent played with her in ages   did that instead of joke voting.

 

so because dxes thinks i MIGHT be scum   which he thinks i am most of the time turin thinks voting me will get to des...that logic makes my head hurt. 

 

I do agree that Turin is flailing. Even Ithi seems to be getting ready to examine him and he seems to be the last person she looks at D1.

 

I will say it Turin   I think you are mafia.

 

##vote Turin

 

colored THAT has something to do with my vote but it wasn't all of it.

 

the reason i thought your vote was ok is that it is typical you. That simple. Turin's was simply because you voted me. Big difference

WRONG!!!! Turin has his reasons for voting you as well. mostly that you are looking very mafia ATM and that read is growing stronger with Despo coming to your aid while trying to make it look like he is either questioning Ithi's reasoning/motives(chainsaw) or merely pushing a "stronger read" as noted earlier(deception).

 

You yourself have stated that  my buddying/sheeping Ithi is standard procedure and yet you are using that an excuse to justify your vote.

 

 

Careful, from where I sit it looks like you might be flailing, lolol. 

[Turin Turambar]

 

Good grief DM

 

i also never said that that previous post was my reason for voting him.

Dice states clearly and out in the open that the things he puts in his posts when he votes are not the reasons for voting them.

 

LMAO

 

 

Also @ Despo - I decline to acquiesce to your request at this time. Play your own game.

 

Asking lots of questions of people to make you seem like Town Intelligence Gatherer is doing you no favours in my book.

 

 

First of all- your point against Dice in this post didn't really make sense to me. Only way it does is if Dice had not previously mentioned seeing Turin as possibly scum, but I think he did. If someone has already stated they find someone scummy, then voting them later doesn't always have to have their original reasoning.

 

Second- I'm not trying to be a Town Intelligence Gatherer. I'm trying to see if this is town on town or what. Haven't read Dice's reaction yet, but there is nothing protown about refusing to answer questions of mine. Right now you're tunneling on Dice, and might be experiencing severe confirmation bias. I want to see if this is the case, if you are right and that Dice is scum, or if you're scum trying to lead town off a cliff (I highly doubt the last one, fwiw).

 

No reason at all to respond hostilely to that kind of request.

 

This is pretty blatant defense of dice who you list as one of your top 4 choices for mafia. Do you know that he put me down as a mafia read prior to voting me? if not then you are putting it out there in hopes no one will later check.

 

 

You are definitely attempting to put yourself out as TOWN LEADER when you are NOT confirmed TOWN as yet. This is another Tommy trait when mafia. I think that you are rubbing off on each other so to speak.  Your attitude is that Ithi is "tunneling" on dice. This is a joke. You know better than most here that Ithi is tenacious when she gets her teeth into someone that she thinks is mafia. Then you follow up with "confirmation bias". On Dice? or are you implying that it is over defense of me? Now that can't really be because you clerly come out to say that you don't think she is mafia (you certainly don't want to have to deal with her looking at you as there is no way to brush that off since she likely DOES have enough clout to see you lynched)

[Tommyrod]

Turin, you're digging yourself a deeper hole with the circular reasoning of Tommy seems like mafia -> that means Des is mafia -> wait Des seems like mafia -> that means Tommy is mafia!

 

It's like watching Alex Jones talk about gun control.

 

DM has TOO MUCH TALKING. My eyes gloss over any post more than a paragraph because it could all be said in one or two sentences yet you guys trump up your ideas to sound more impressive than they are. Stop it. Just because you are fans of fantasy novels doesn't mean you need to be writing fan fiction ITT.

 

I saw one post worth responding to. CHOCOLATE CROISSANTS?!

[Tommyrod]

I would guess Dice is town; gut soul read.

 

#dealwithit.gif