[Game]: Black Tower Mafia II - The revolt.

[Talya]

Just a side note, can someone please say what AtE, ISO and TL;Dr mean. I think I should know, but if you know how many acronyms i deal with everyday with work (and don't remember all) you;d unde4rstand why they leave me cold, and I have trouble remembering every single one. I prefer to remember work ones than on here, so please let me know...thank you.

 

Don't see any reason why anyone would have a problem with stating if they are town or not. Does that worry you Turin? Are you town?

Des, you've been tunneling me for two days. Unless I have a role that directs the mod in what Turin is convinced is a basic game (seriously?) my comments are not going to get anyone mod killed. I just pay attention to details in regards to asking about Ley (it wasn't in the rules) and wanted some info on how the Pral situation was going to play out if he didn't show up. Got anything else to contribute? What do you think about the case on dice? Are you town?

 

Maybe you could answer some of your own questions too. I actually don't think Des has been tunnelling on you. and he has said stuff about other people, you don't seem to have said too much on anyone else. Just doing a lot of defending. dice is another I don't think has said much about others neither. however I find more of the this stuff you have done or said today makes me suspicious of you. oh, apart from that sucking up to Ley you did when he was on the lynch bit. the modkill stuff is a bit Meh! to me. 

 

I quite liked what Pral had to say about Cloud, he is another not been around much, another to sneak under the radar, I had quite forgot about him. I didn't realise how he changed votes like that on Day 1. interesting. looked like he was just hoping to get a lynch. Made me think he knew Basel was town and so got off his lynch onto Lenlo (maybe a team mate or another hopeful town lynch for him) and then felt a consolidation vote was a good place to be. I would like to hear more from Pral on others too. 

 

This business of the LD, I'm not seeing the problem with people saying they are town, as long as it isn't over kill..(looks at csarmi). Once should be suffice if there is one. 

 

I still feel that Dice is heading forward out of those. But clooud and RTE I could also go with

 

VOTE DICE

[_CLOUD]

I had a very busy weekend so I was kinda neglecting this game, but I will be catching up now and be more active again

[Talya]

*cracks whip* and so you should...

[csarmi]

Iso is isolation of posts.

 

Ate is appeal to emotions.

 

Tldr is too long didn't read. Either means you just don't wanna read someone's post or that you'd be giving a short recap of your post for those who don't wanna read the whole.

[Pralaya]

Just a side note, can someone please say what AtE, ISO and TL;Dr mean. I think I should know, but if you know how many acronyms i deal with everyday with work (and don't remember all) you;d unde4rstand why they leave me cold, and I have trouble remembering every single one. I prefer to remember work ones than on here, so please let me know...thank you.

 

 

AtE - Appeal to Emotion - When someone is using an argument to manipulate emotions rather than use logic.

ISO - Don't know what it is an abbreviation of , think In Search Of - but it basically means a search feature to look at all posts made by a certain user. 

TL;DR - Too Long; Didn't Read - a TL:DR version is a summary of the long post made - basically for the lazies :)

[dicetosser1]

The Dice minicase.

• #3064141 - a nice intro
• #3065068 - Sees why the Ley vote built fast, do learn from history. Calls out Csarmi for saying L-2 wasn't a danger. This post pings a little because of how he plays the all-uderstanding diplomat here. Seen him do it as scum.  oh my apologies for seeing the big picture!  btw thats sarcasm csarmi
•  
• #3065166 - Two easy votes = fact. In his opinion anyway.  what youve never seen mafia swoop and lynch someone in a few minutes?
•  
• #3066138 - Just can't see Ley false claiming Cop. Yea right. Wary about Csarmi, fence sitting on Basel.
• #3066160 - Still don't care to vote (play, in other words) and the "why rush to lynch omg we already have the cop claimed" is as scummy as it gets. Reasons: slow down, don't play please is maffia argument, also the way he refrerences the cop reveal is just baaad.  .lets see  im in 2 games atm. in both of them a majoe PR has been forced into claiming D1. in both of them that person was on their way to getting lynched. ley very nearly got there.So what ?? we shouldn't be wary of rushing lynches? after we just majorly screwed one up?
•  
• #3066572 - Reflects on Talya calling him out why he don't vote. He still doesn't, btw.  gods forbid i should respond to someone and explain myself!
•  
• #3066576 - AtE sounding defense on Des calling him out on his second post. I don't like the tone. Double question marks FTL.  
• #3067155 - He says he won't be getting up and places an L-1 vote on Basel. Nothing special here.
•  
• #3067912 - defends vs Despo calling him out on the wifom thing might wanna check your link...thats me asking you not to tell people how to play or post cause its annoying and is something you do often.  and wasnt it LEY that you were telling how to post not des?
•  
• #3068541 - "so Darthe was being honest" <-- yea like I said earlier, you were very curious how your night kill would work out  .  He sometimes makes early claims and i never believe him. I was surprised that this time he told the truth. thats it.
•  
• #3069023 - This post reeks, seriously, you should read it.  yeah not seeing what your talking about. was in response to three votes on pral, referenced the favt we hurried and almost lynched our cop and answered RTE re a discussion about modkilling.
•  
• #3069442 - "Why you tunneling at me csarmi"? Meta defense. I can't wait to see you pull RL.  hmm lets see  you have been pushing me without evidence for a while now. You unvoted to vote someone else to then suggest me to them then came back voting me. All before giving any reasons. no reasons were given until I accused you of tunneling. So yes I'd say you are tunneling.

• This is not a town Dice.

  Can we lynch him please?

 

 

In regards to the Des thing Csarmi was talking about, apparently csarmi cant read incredulity and humor together. I saw the post earlier but cant find it again now.  It was a response to des saying i had egg on my face

[dicetosser1]

 

Csarmi do you actually have a reason for your tunneling on me?

 

Other then the fact that I didn't post when you wanted? Or that im a low poster?  let me give you a hint...Im ALWAYS a low poster.  about the only time i wasn't was when i was the Oracle

Btw, constantly being a low poster isn't exactly something you should be proud of, or be able to say without cringing. Just means you consistently don't help your team out as much as you could. And you shouldn't post a lot more just because you have a juicy role, makes it way too easy for scum to figure out your role when you're town.

 

Please don't say you don't post much because of timezones either. There are PLENTY of people who are on diff timezones, or diff sleep schedules like me, who are able to post a lot more with ease.

 

I understand RL issues tho, and I know a while ago you were still dealing with em. Just sayin, I wouldn't bring up that you are always a low poster as if that was a good thing.

 

 

sorry erased the top bit of this trying to get rid of the unneeded. its des quoting me.

 

Oracle gave me a lot of info and there was a lot of conversation aimed at me. hence the extra high post count.

 

Didnt say I like it. Just said thats how it is. and quantity does not equate to helping ure team more. Im a quiet player I give my thoughts when i have them and thats what i should be doing. 

[Niniel]

Vote count

 

Pralaya (2): NotBob, RTE

 

Talya (1): Via

 

Dice (2): Csarmi, Talya

 

Csarmi (1): Turin 

 

RTE (2): Des, Lenlo

 

Cloud (1): Pralaya

 

 

 

 

Not voting: Dice,  Ed,   Cloud, Ley, Pralaya 

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is Wednesday 9 PM CET

 

 

Sorry for my absence. My niece is sleeping over. I skimmed the threads for votes. I saw a bullshanks and someone vomiting but don´t remember who wrote it. So no official warnings but remember that this is a happy game. And if you are truly sick, please don´t womit on your keyboard. 

[Elaevia]

 

vote talya She seems to have given quite a detailed reasoning as to why Darthe died last night, the level of explanation seems a bit high here

What do you think of my explanation? What makes Talya's interpretation more scummy than mine?

Am trying to explain but having trouble getting this down right.

 

Between the two of you you have probably covered every possible reason why Darthe was targeted. But it read to me a bit like she threw the 'he was killed because of who he was talking about / casing' but quickly latched on to your 'killed because they thought he had a role'

[Leyrann]

Sorry guys, had a hectic week at work and had time just for one game. I was inactive in the other two. This week should be less stressful. Will come back on this game tomorrow morning my time.

 

No post to tell us you had little time? It's only one minute to do that.

 

The only PR that we have to base any information about Power Role to Character would be Ley. He hasn't chosen to character claim and has been against it so I am NOT asking him to say who he is.

 

(edited out the rest of the post because it was pretty long)

 

My character is clearly randomly chosen.

 

About the case this was in (on Csarmi), I like it, though at the moment I'm more convinced of Cloud.

 

Csarmi, I read the rules yet again. It clearly states that the roles in the game are basic. There are other things that can happen that I read to be possible random occurrences. Now you may have more information about this than I do since you claim to have been affected on night 1. I can only guess you are saying that your not being viewable N1 was do to an effect. Of course I am wondering if it waa merely a ploy to avoid being viewed. Small basic game means mafia can win by putting slightest bits of doubt in town minds. Fear of a wasted view when every one counts. Obvious LD statement n a game unlikely to have an LD. Looks shady to.me

 

RTE, yes I'm town. Win with town. And my willingness to say so has no bearing on anything. Even in a game with a LD mafia will lie knowing that they have to. But in this game without one (my opinion) then mafia will be even more brazen about it. Which is my point about csarmi trumpeting his townie-ness at the slightest prompt. Your current I'm town so I don't care if someone buddies me is also in the same vein. Sketchy..

 

Despo, stop agreeing with me... It is like we are in an alternate universe.

 

Believe me, I had enough people to choose from I found suspect to not have to worry that one view might not work.

 

Alright, went through the whole thread. No kidding, I missed a lot. Sorry/

 

Let's start with this.

 

ok, not as much use as I first thought, cos I misjudged the numbers slightly, but anyway, this was my thought.

 

I am prone to beleive that there was one or two mafia voting Ley before he revealed, wether to run a quick lynch, or buddy town or whatever, their votes wouldn't stand out in all the other quick voting.

 

These are the people who were voting Ley, in the order they voted

 

Cloud

Turin

Darthe

Desp

Csarmi

Basel

 

now that means that there are two (or maybe three if there was only one mafia voting Ley) out of the people not voting Ley.

 

not voting Ley

Dice

Talya

Ed

NotBob

Lenlo

Pralya

RTE

 

Town:

Ley and me

 

so yes, I am aware that I have just divided everyone into two roughly equal groups and said there are two mafia in each, but it was a much better idea when I thought for some reason there were people voting Ley (I got confused with the number needed to lynch) . when that second group would only have had five people in it.

 

But still, I think there's a good chance that three out of those seven are mafia, maybe only two. And this is a list generated from gameplay, not just randomly picked names.

 

First, that is a nice little analysis. I agree with via that there is at least one scum in both the lists. At the same time, I am not comfortable with the timing of this post. This is something most people would have thought of when there is information available - maybe later in the game or when alignments are revealed. Anyway, I colored the town and that definitely helps us shorten the list.

 

Next, let us look at Basel's lynch

 

 

Basel (8): Ed, Turin, Ley,  Lenlo, Dice, Via, Cloud, Csarmi

 

The most interesting of those two vote counts are Cloud and Turin. Both of them had early votes on Ley and both of did start the train on Basel. While Turin stays consistent on his vote, the voting pattern of Cloud did seem interesting. After starting the train on Basel, he drops out when there has been sufficient votes on him, votes the other train which is growing (presumably to get two set of votes) and then switches back to Basel with the pretext of consolidation.

 

Here are his vote pattern

 

 

 

Unvote.

 

You were at L-2.

I was at either L-2 or L-1, Csarmi. So, yeah...

You were at 6 votes, 8 to lynch, so L-2. I don't think you were in any real danger of being lynched, not yet.

 

 

Are you seriously claiming that L - 2 isn't in danger of being lynched? A person can pick up two votes awfully fast.

 

 

Now, after Csarmi said that Basel placed the L-2 vote I went back to check and he actually did. And yet he now appears to be FoSing Csarmi for saying that running someone up to L-2 isn't dangerous!

 

Vote Basel

 

 

Picked up a slip from Basel (Turin actually pointed it out) . At this point BAsel had 2 votes on him and probably noticed that he was a viable lynch.

 

The Basel train, obviously picks up and reaches to 6 votes on him

 

And, then there is this post - http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/85585-game-black-tower-mafia-ii-the-revolt/?p=3067198

Splitting it up and taking only the important parts

 

 

I found Basel saying that Ley's superdefensive play was a slip pinging and it appears as if he was just parroting Darthe and Des who were also on Ley's train, and him not checking the vote count before he voted wasn't a pro-town move at all considering how fast his train was going. Him saying that he miscounted is convenient, but it doesn appear to match his later post where he was FoSing Salami for saying that Ley wasn't in danger of getting lynched while was at L-2. I also got a townie vibe from his last couple of posts.

 

He starts off by saying all those points that made him suspicious of Basel. Valid points, without the advantage of hindsight. But then, he drops the last line. Very convenient. I went back and saw Basels posts before Cloud's and frankly did not see anything that outrightly gave a good vibe on him. It as just Basel defending some points and giving out his reads. Nothing by Cloud on what posts by Basel he found townish.

 

And, in the same posts he unvotes Basel and votes Lenlo.

 

 

@Lenlo: its uberscummy to try and look more townie by scolding everyone for something in hindsight. How was anyone that joke-voted Ley (I think the majority of votes on his train) supposed to know if he was the cop?

 

For that matter, how do you know he isn't lying? How do you know we don't already have one scum in the bag by pressuring someone easy to pressure right off the bat?

 

You trying to scold everyone when he brought all the negative attention on himself with that guidelines list is completely unnecessary.

 

Also, your vote on Basel does seem somewhat opportunistic to me (you just parrot what others have said about him), but lastly you trying to stick to your fos on Pray for his first post when EVERYONE else in the game saw that as a joke-post, and Pray himself said it was, is enought to make me

 

Unvote, Vote Lenlo

 

I agree with your case on Lenlo and so I will move my vote to him.

 

 

Unvote, Vote Lenlo

 

 

At this point Lenlo had 3 votes and Basel had 6 votes. Unvoting Basel for a frivolous reason and voting Lenlo parroting Des' case on him. End result - kind of evened out the train as the deadline was approaching.

 

And, finally, the obligatory "consolidation vote"

I simply quoted his case because I agreed with everything he was saying about Lenlo.

 

 

Unvote, Vote Basel for consolidation. I will make sure to check in just before the deadline on my phone and switch my vote again if need be.

 

Tl;Dr 

Both his votes, he was picking up on easy slips by others. Both times he was parroting what others cased. Was early on both Ley's and Basels' train. Dropped out when the train had enough people to even it out with Lenlo's train. Consolidated back on Basel on deadline.

 

vote Cloud

 

Very strong case. I would just like to note that Csarmi was also on both, and that he joined late in both (at least if the voting order didn't mess up), but for now I

 

vote Cloud,

 

and leave Csarmi at the second spot on my list.

 

Also, Cloud, you already posted after this case, maybe some defense?

[Niniel]

Vote count

 

Pralaya (2): NotBob, RTE

 

Talya (1): Via

 

Dice (2): Csarmi, Talya

 

Csarmi (1): Turin 

 

RTE (1):  Lenlo

 

Cloud (2): Pralaya, Ley

 

 

 

 

Not voting: Dice,  Ed,   Cloud,   Des

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is Wednesday 9 PM CET

[Talya]

 

 

vote talya She seems to have given quite a detailed reasoning as to why Darthe died last night, the level of explanation seems a bit high here

What do you think of my explanation? What makes Talya's interpretation more scummy than mine?

Am trying to explain but having trouble getting this down right.

 

Between the two of you you have probably covered every possible reason why Darthe was targeted. But it read to me a bit like she threw the 'he was killed because of who he was talking about / casing' but quickly latched on to your 'killed because they thought he had a role'

 

 

You are right, you aren't putting it down well. Funny that you only quoted the one post at the time and said nothing about the latching on bit now. another person who adds to their original reason when questioned on it. all I said was I hadn't thought about the claim and a role, because I had forgotten about it, did you remember it when he turned up dead this morning? before it was spoken about...I bet that's a no!

[Niniel]

Going to bed. I hope to have a lot to read when I wake up. 

[Elaevia]

 

Would you trust the replacement?

 

Who would you be looking at instead if he got replaced?

 

If he got replaced we could get discussion, the replacement could slip or incriminate others. Discussion is always better than no discussion even if we are guaranteed to lynch the person anyways.

 

Quoting this because I agree with Leno here, and i feel there was no need or cause to start talking about modkilling at the very beginning of the day.

[Leyrann]

Agreed with that. RTE, stop talking about things like modkilling.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Evidently this game is having a slow day...

[Leyrann]

With a lot of talk though. Votes are not the only thing that show the speed of a day.

[Elaevia]

@pral, in response to your post at the top of page 27

I'm posting as and when thoughts pop in to my head! :p

 

And thanks for colouring that list, saved me a job!

 

Am quoting a post at a time at the moment cos am on the iPad and quoting more than one is a right pain. In fact even one is a pain cos the browser crashed while I was editing down prals post, hence the no quote here

[Elaevia]

I think it's also worth noting that cloud poped up after the case against him, but would have thought he had time to catch up by now.

[Turin Turambar]

Ley, your point that there were plenty of other people to look at is just what I am saying. Say you think player X and player Y are both possible mafia. X pings more but comes out with a "can't be viewed" claim. Which one you more likely to pick now? I would think Y. Mafia lives another day. That is their mission. To stay alive. By any means necessary.

 

RTE, can you say anything that doesn't ping? No wonder you got lynched already

[_CLOUD]

All caught up. Not sure how informative the lynch nor the NK was but we'll make due with what we have.

 

Vote Pral. Now let's hope he doesn't just get replaced... Modkilled would give us more info.

 

Also can't believe you guys lynched "me".

 

Going to try to be much more active, especially now that I got caught up on about 175 posts...

 

I know that others have already commented on this post from RTE before, but I just wanted to say how very bad it is. He votes Pral without giving any explanation and there also wasn't even a case around at the time for him to sheep, and then just says that he hopes he won't get replaced but that modkilling would give us more info....

 

You know very well that most mods on DM won't give a coroner's report when they modkill a player. I know that you did it in your Greek Mythology game, but then you should have asked Tina how she will deal with modkills in her game before you started pushing the idea forward. Why are you even voting for Pral if you want him to get modkilled? Why are you voting for Pral in the first place? You also haven't been the most active player this game, and neither was I so why not just vote for me instead?

 

 

For context's sake I recently modded a game where I got a lot of flak for letting an inactive player live for too long. I don't get what you guys are so afraid of. The decision is the mod's, not mine. I'm just saying it's a possibility. I'm also saying will you trust Pral's replacement?

 

Nothing wrong with voting someone who you think is scum. I think that's the point... He has time to come back and post.

 

Ah so you are voting for Pral because you believe he is scum. What makes you think he is scum? I find it very hard to believe that you can have a good read on him after he only wrote like 5 posts, and yet you make it sound like everyone doesn't trust Pral.

 

 

@Pral's case on me: I already said that Basel's post where he was FoSing Csarmi for the L-2 thing matched his belief that he had only put Ley on L-3 with his vote. The town vibe was based on me having a gut feeling that Basel is town: I liked the way he had defended himself and he stayed calm and didn't try to do everything he could to push the attention away from him and onto Lenlo instead who had the second biggest train going at the time. The realization that I was pushing for the wrong lynch made me switch my vote to Lenlo. It appears that I was right, and yet now I'm getting flak for it.

 

 

 

 

I quite liked what Pral had to say about Cloud, he is another not been around much, another to sneak under the radar, I had quite forgot about him. I didn't realise how he changed votes like that on Day 1. interesting. looked like he was just hoping to get a lynch. Made me think he knew Basel was town and so got off his lynch onto Lenlo (maybe a team mate or another hopeful town lynch for him) and then felt a consolidation vote was a good place to be. I would like to hear more from Pral on others too.

 

I'm usually one of the most vocal players in mafia games, and especially on Day 1 which has also gotten me lynched a lot of times. I wasn't trying to sneak under the radar; I just had a really busy weekend and I didn't have much time to spare to play mafia. It's no secret that I was hoping to achieve a lynch; a random lynch won't help town in any kind of way and I thought that Basel was just a VT so even though I would have obviously prefered Len to die I felt ok with Basel's lynch. I believed that Basel was town because of the way he played during those last few pages, and not because I'm mafia. 

 

 

Some other thoughts: There has been a lot of talk about Darthe's character claim at the start of this Day which was totally unneeded; The mod has stated in her opening post that character claims are just flavor, and if they had any game related meaning then we wouldn't be able to just claim them so freely. Darthe's claim didn't mean anything, so I don't like how people where trying to explain the mafia's NK (I'm looking at you Csarmi and Talya). Speaking about Csarmi and Talya, I also don't like how they are suddenly working together and voting for Dice after their back and forth on Day 1. There also hasn't been any case on Pral so some of the votes he got look really opportunistic to me. I think that RTE is scum and his over-defensive responses from the last pages also aren't making things look any better for him. I'm also having a bad feeling about Csarmi but less so than RTE.

 

And if you are truly sick, please don´t womit on your keyboard. 

 

This made me lol

 

 

Vote RTE

[ReleaseTheEvil]

I have a lot more to offer the game, just had a really busy day. Will case properly tomorrow.

[Niniel]

Vote count

 

Pralaya (2): NotBob, RTE

 

Talya (1): Via

 

Dice (2): Csarmi, Talya

 

Csarmi (1): Turin 

 

RTE (2):  Lenlo, Clloud

 

Cloud (2): Pralaya, Ley

 

 

 

 

Not voting: Dice,  Ed,  Des

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is Wednesday 9 PM CET. That is in 34 hours and 42 minutes. 

[Niniel]

I will not be home today but I will try to check in as often as I can on my phone. 

[Pralaya]

Evidently this game is having a slow day...

 

Well, you can start off by responding to some of the votes on you and what we have been saying about you.