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Barid Bel Medar

Ask Simple questions, get simple answers (aMoL version covering the entire series)

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The difficulties of flying with the One Power have been mentioned in a few of the books; it seems as if this trouble is tied to the difficulties of using weaves on oneself. Would it not stand to reason that two channelers in tandem could fly?

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To some degree, I suppose so.  We have seen channelers lift other channelers/other people using weaves of air.  Nynaeve and Siuan using air to pin each other against the walls of a ship cabin in tGH is suggestive that it may be possible for two channelers to lift each other at the same time.  However, an Egwene POV in Cairhien when she encounters the Atha'an Miere shows how hard it is to lift people with the one power.  Egwene is a pretty strong channeler, and yet she is only able to lift her targets a few metres.

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@rhienne,

egwene is not that strong.

lanfear and rand also slammed each other to  opposite walls  during the attack on the stone

of tear,and she did not seem to be exerting at all.

"whatever you can do,lews therin,i can do.and better."

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@rhienne,

egwene is not that strong.

lanfear and rand also slammed each other to  opposite walls  during the attack on the stone

of tear,and she did not seem to be exerting at all.

"whatever you can do,lews therin,i can do.and better."

We know Adeleas was able to lift 2 people 2 stories up - I can't imagine Lanfear would strain with 1 person. Whatever she lacked in Talent, she probably can "muscle" her way through (Though I think Adeleas is probably pretty strong in Air for a relatively weak channeller)

 

Siuan was able to lift something 3x her weight at her original strength (this is more indicative of similar talent to air with Egwene, she had to split 1 more flow for a shield from memory), yet no longer able to lift someone just above her weight after (which i think is just marginally weaker than Adeleas).

 

Nynaeve was able to lift Lan & Rand (i can't remember together or separately) with her well - no idea how to gauge that unless we know how much of her well she used - I can't remember if she left to refill her well subsequently after Rand and Lan were captured.

 

Anyway, I found the whole "lifting with air" business a little problematic once we found out Channellers can make Air Bridges to cross (granted, RJ gave us really strange limitations)

Edited by James Tham

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The more I think about it, the less I think it's possible. All we get from the story is some rumors that channelers may have been able to fly in the age of legends, but the only evidence we see of flying from that time period is mechanical in nature. The Forsaken never even mention being able to fly throughout the series, and the shadowspawn that can fly do so with the use of wings. Nor have we heard even vague rumors to suggest that there are any terangreal that could accomplish it.

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Interview: Oct 28th, 2005 Jason Wolfbrother
Can a channeler fly without any ter'angreal or equipment (like sho-wings) if he or she knows the right weave?
Robert Jordan
No. Flat out, no hesitation, no thinking. Simply put, NO.
Jason Wolfbrother
Is it possible to for two channelers to lift each other simultaneously so that they can hover, and "fly" that way? Because he answered the previous question as he did I did not ask this one as it is obviously, to me at least a 'No' also.

 

 

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Oh oh I get to be the first to ask. Ok here is a question though perhaps not a simple one. Why can Rand not channel after the bodyswap, I thought channeling followed the soul and Rand's soul can channel like nobody's business, how come he can no longer do so at the end of the book, and also how come he have none of the negative mental effects of those who have lost the ability to channel? He is just relieved not to have the ability any more and that is it. The only explanation I have for this is that he do not need the ability any longer as he have gotten the ability to affect the pattern directly, like what he do with his pipe, he no longer need to draw on the Power and weave or any of those trappings, he can just affect the pattern with his will and wishes without the go between, like a programmer who suddenly get the ability to control compute code directly with his mind so he no longer have any need of his computer.

 

The other possible explanation I guess is that it was a gift from the Creator, that he knew that all Rand wanted was to wander around and live a simple life and that he did not want to have the ability to channel, and so he took it away from him harmlessly, I guess the Creator being a God could do that.

I'm fairly new to posting here and don't know if this was already brought up but I saw the simple and most straight forward reason for Rand no longer needing to channel was because he was no longer The Dragon Reborn.

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Channeling is a soul trait. If you have it in a certain lifetime it doesn't go away Dragon Reborn or not. That said if he can't sense the source that normally would mean he burned himself out.

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Interview: Oct 28th, 2005Jason Wolfbrother
Can a channeler fly without any ter'angreal or equipment (like sho-wings) if he or she knows the right weave?
Robert Jordan
No. Flat out, no hesitation, no thinking. Simply put, NO.
Jason Wolfbrother
Is it possible to for two channelers to lift each other simultaneously so that they can hover, and "fly" that way? Because he answered the previous question as he did I did not ask this one as it is obviously, to me at least a 'No' also.

 

 

 

I wish someone had asked RJ what if a channeller created a tornado on top of him/herself. Would the rules of flying disallow the moving air from touching them? Or we will fail them on flying for uncontrolled self-hurling to one's death    :wink:  Do tell me if there is a quote to that effect!!

Edited by James Tham

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The difficulties of flying with the One Power have been mentioned in a few of the books; it seems as if this trouble is tied to the difficulties of using weaves on oneself. Would it not stand to reason that two channelers in tandem could fly?

Remember that gravity doesn't stop working. Things like Rand and Lanfear holding each other off the ground (by pinning each other to the wall) or bridges of Air still account for gravity. If you can figure out a way for channelers to fly that isn't insanely dangerous, hard and uncomfortable, and still accounts for the limitations of gravity and the human body, go ahead. Or do what the AoL people did, and have an OP-powered plane

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The difficulties of flying with the One Power have been mentioned in a few of the books; it seems as if this trouble is tied to the difficulties of using weaves on oneself. Would it not stand to reason that two channelers in tandem could fly?

 

To elaborate, I may be able to lift Jim off the ground, and Jim can lift me off the ground, but we can't pick each other off the ground at the same time and just hover that way. In order to lift something, I need to be braced against something else by some force. Gravity's the obvious one, but Mr. Ares also pointed out when Lanfear and Rand pinned each other to the wall.

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I guess it always stuck in my mind right in the beginning when Moiraine said that AS couldn't do for themselves what they can do for others. It always made me feel that even solid weaves of air as bridges should not work until RJ introduced it with Elayne doing the high walk. Subsequently, Rand explained certain arbitrary rules regarding solid air bridges that the channeller themselves can cross (like women can make longer bridges or something like that). However, that means you can still create things of air that conform to gravity. On the simple side, a ladder - perhaps, again the same arbitrary rules apply, women can create longer ladders. Then the absurdly complicated stuff (which really have no real practical application with Travelling), like how we are able to lift cranes up without having to dismantle it (again, the arbitrary rules can be applied - women can make "longer" ones perhaps).

 

Regarding hovering, a vertical wind tunnel comes to mind - however, that can be easily explained away as most (if not all) channellers wouldn't have the strength to create a 200km/h vertical wind tunnel at will (and again, no real practical application other than showing off if you have the ability to travel).

Edited by James Tham

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I guess it always stuck in my mind right in the beginning when Moiraine said that AS couldn't do for themselves what they can do for others. It always made me feel that even solid weaves of air as bridges should not work until RJ introduced it with Elayne doing the high walk. Subsequently, Rand explained certain arbitrary rules regarding solid air bridges that the channeller themselves can cross (like women can make longer bridges or something like that). However, that means you can still create things of air that conform to gravity. On the simple side, a ladder - perhaps, again the same arbitrary rules apply, women can create longer ladders. Then the absurdly complicated stuff (which really have no real practical application with Travelling), like how we are able to lift cranes up without having to dismantle it (again, the arbitrary rules can be applied - women can make "longer" ones perhaps).

 

Regarding hovering, a vertical wind tunnel comes to mind - however, that can be easily explained away as most (if not all) channellers wouldn't have the strength to create a 200km/h vertical wind tunnel at will (and again, no real practical application other than showing off if you have the ability to travel).

not to mention earning a Darwin Award  :wink:

 

I think RJ created 'arbitrary' rules and laws to prevent 'handwaving' or any deus ex machina (of which there was plenty). The OP was a science and not just an art.

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i just saw on wikipedia that RJ had originally planned to write two additional prequel books (in addition to NS).  is it known what they were to be about?

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Here is the info on the prequels.

 

Robert Jordan planned to write a total of three short (for him) novels to complement the Wheel of Time main chronology, the first being New Spring. The second prequel was to be the story of how Tam al'Thor found baby Rand on Dragonmount and returned to the Two Rivers. The third was to be the story of how Moiraine and Lan arrived at the Two Rivers just in the nick of time.

 

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Is there any word on wether or not the seanchan "omens" are pure superstition? The westerners seem to think so, but the seanchan seem to view western beliefs about taveren, etc. in the same light. Could it be that the seanchan can use natural occurances as a way to somehow read the pattern?

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Is there any word on wether or not the seanchan "omens" are pure superstition? The westerners seem to think so, but the seanchan seem to view western beliefs about taveren, etc. in the same light. Could it be that the seanchan can use natural occurances as a way to somehow read the pattern?

 

 I thought about that a lot. I think it may be a mix. Fortuona says in AMoL something to the effect that the Empire hasn't had a doomseer in 300 years. Apparently they have had people in the empire with Min's talent, and they were given some measure of prestige. They probably took the stories/writings of those individuals and what they saw in images and auras and corrupted them into their system of reading omens in the natural world. ie, a doomseer sees a rosebush (or whatever), interprets it as 'x' and Seanchan culture absorbs rosebushes as being associated with 'x'. Whether it works or not, it seems clear that the omen thing got started by people like Min.

 If Min's thing is genetic like channeling, perhaps it was more common in the bloodlines over there in Seanchan. 

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hi guys. I was reading AMOL for the first time the other day (I'd only listened to the audiobook before) and something struck me as odd in the conversation where Elayne ends up trusting the Horn of Valere to Faile (though she'd wanted Perrin to be in charge of taking it to Mat).

when Perrin suggests that Faile take it, she says that she's reluctant to trust anybody she does not know well with it and that's why she wants Perrin to take it.

 

but is there any reason why Elayne should know Perrin well?

I mean, i really cannot remember any time when Elayne met Perrin long enough to really know him. and the only times i remember Elayne meeting Perrin on screen (in the stone of tear and in the palace of caemlyn), Faile was with him.

the only exception would be Falme but I cannot remember them meeting on screen at all, and I have no reason to believe they had any meaningful interaction. 

 

it really made me pause reading that because it seems to me, of all the protagonists, probably Elayne and Perrin have virtually never been seen together.

does it seem odd to you too?

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I wouldn't have thought that Elayne knows either particularly well, but Perrin has the advantage of being BFF with Rand and Mat.  At the Stone Faile was actively trying to avoid Rand, it's possible that Elayne picked up on it, she's pretty astute and was spending a lot of time with Rand ;)

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For me the main issue with this plotline is not who trusts who (although I assume Elayne would know who the three ta'veren are, and their significance by now) but why Elayne didn't open a Gateway to the WT storerooms (or just outside them if they are Warded) and bring the Horn straight to its destination.

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Did Mandarb survive the Last Battle?  The last time I remember him being mentioned was when Lan dismounted prior to fighting Demandred.

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