Red Ajah IWW: Crimes against women in the Media (Discussion)

[Ryrin]

 

I think he misspoke. I'm pretty sure he meant that in most western countries violence against women is generally reciprocal not that it actually doesn't exist. If it's usually reciprocal it's not just a women's issue but a violence issue unlike in non western countries where that may not necessarily be true.

 

Or maybe I'm just putting words in his mouth. If so I'm sorry.

That's what I thought he meant though.

.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant.

It feels like everyone reads a post and tries so hard to find a way to misinterpret it. I'll make sure to be more precise in the future.

I hardly think posters are "trying so hard" to find a way to misinterpret posts. Unfortunately, there are limits to typewritten information. I will try as well to be precise.

[Moon Sedai]

TO GET BACK TO POINT

 

1. The violence I am referring to is specfically gendered violence- where the violence is performed with gender as a motivating factor. Rape, Incest, and Murder.

            Not “Muder for the wallet/hide a secret. “ Murder when gender is part of the motive.

            What do I mean by gendered motivations? (Note: This has some basis in film, historical, sociological, and psychological research.  PM if you must see the source material. Bear in mind I’m coming from the perspective of someone who has written serious scholarly work on gendered violence, particularly in films.)

            When violent acts occur for gendered motivations in violence it is because the attacker wants to assert strength
over another person- to show that they have more power than the other one. I am way more “macho” than you, because I did *this action* to You. I made you squeal like a pig aka Deliverance (This has been shown to be a prime motivator when gendered violence is done to men, he should have ‘manned up’ and not let it happen) Or, I am punishing *you* for acting out of your place. You are too promiscuous, too uppity, too independent, too manly, or are just asking for it (You dressed like you wanted to take an axe to the face!). War rape occurs when a conquering army wants to completely emasculate the men of the invaded country by proving, “you’re so weak you couldn’t defend your women”

Methods of murder in media also hint at the gendered violence. Guns and Daggers are often symbolic of masculine

genitalia.  Multiple stabs on a victim =multiple sexual attacks. The more times the victim has been stabbed, the more
masculine power that has been inflicted upon that victim. A single bullet discharged from a gun can prove the same point. {Due to Rating issues, I cannot go much further down that line of talk.} The more victims I’ve shot, the more manly powerful my killing spree has become.

 

2.Media exposure of Gendered Violence can have one of three separate effects.

           a) The Viewer engages in revenge fantasies (I want to kill all those jerks)

            b) the Viewer wants to act through positive means (I want to help the victims)

            c) The Viewer becomes hardened to violence. (I don’t see this as a problem/there is no problem).

   

3. Gendered violence in media can deepen already existing sexist feeling on both sides: man and woman haters alike.  If Sexist Stan sees women being brutalized in his slasher flicks, he may take the attitude that “Well, women are stupid
anyway. They deserve to be if they’re going to be dumb and dress in skanky clothes, they deserve to be leered at/oogled/whatever they get.” If Man-hating Mary sees women brutally tortured, she may take the attitude “We need to make
all men eunuchs.” 

The purpose I originally intended for this discussion was to see how it is used in different forms of media and how audiences react to it.

The Essential aspect of Audience reaction is how the violence is portrayed.

In The Color Purple, Celie is raped by her stepfather and beaten by her husband, and almost kills him when she

discovers he’d been hiding letters from her. Her abuse is mostly hinted at, and she takes a more positive outcome- leaving him and becoming her own woman.

In Last House (the more recent one) one of the attackers gets his head nuked. A very violent and brutal scene results
in a very violent and brutal death.

 

In the works of Eminem, there is an overwhelming amount of “I wanna beat the woman, cut her throat” in the music REGARDLESS OF HOW HE ACTUALLY LIVES.

A person bopping along singing a tune about how they wanna slice someone’s throat may not want to go kill someone, but the very likely will be more likely to have negative sexist attitudes.  Things we sing about we are more likely to believe. (There is a  reason some religions rely on spiritual music and discourage people from listening to ‘secular tunes’)

On a television show,( for instance, a recent Bones episode, a victim was killed because he confronted his friend’s rapist)

Gendered violence is often in “special episodes” dedicated to Domestic Abuse awareness, and include some sort of “You are not the only one to go through this, there are others, you can get help” message. 

[Tsukibana]

@moon: what would you say, then, about shows like Law & Order: SVU, where 90% of the victims are targeted due to

gender/age? On the one hand, it seems that a show where victims are (usually) shown as stepping forward, confronting their

attackers, gettiing justice could positively affect victims by helping them come forward, showing they are not to blame.

Offenses MIGHT go down, as those contemplating such actions see that there can be consequences. Others might be

motivated to help.

On the other hand, which I am asking for more input, do you feel that this show, consistently showing gender-based

violence, has a greater negative impact than positive?

[Elgee]

I think there's a difference between any form of communication or entertainment that glorifies violence or negativity towards a certain group vs those that vilifies it. The problem is that (and this is scientifically proven - there's a thread about it at the Browns, if you want to find out more), people don't change their minds. So at best you would make people aware of what's going on, rather than make them realise their behaviour is incorrect. How graphic do you really have to be to make people aware of something?

 

There was an article in the newspaper today about the effects of "manly" adds on males. Apparently those are more likely to make them act in an inappropriately aggressive manner than violent movies and games are. I wish they'd named their source better so I could link you to it, but they just say that "scientific studies" say. It's all in Afrikaans unfortunately, and I don't have the time to translate it.

[Tsukibana]

I think one of the negative aspects of trying to raise awareness is that its usually second-hand.

In health class in high school, plenty of people saw pictures of diseased genitalia... work better than an abstinence campaign.

They showed pictures of actual people smeared across the highway... my high school has only lost one

student in 30+ years to drunk driving.

I DO not want to turn these women into objects, but campaigns that show the real, indisputable effects of violence

could possibly shock people where logic and pleas cannot.

[Nolder]

sorry if I'm out of line here, but do you actually think the Amyrlin, as in leader of the WT, has not read the entire thread before posting? 

That isn't what I was trying to say. I was merely saying the context of my shorthand was in the thread. 

 

She asked earlier for the attitude to end and it was ignored and now she has asked again and still it seems the jabs are coming, though passive-aggressive. I for one do not like the idea of someone undermining the authority of or disrespecting my Amyrlin.

I'm sorry but you're just reading too much into it. I don't know if she read the whole thread or not. If she had I'm not sure why she was confused but either way I don't really care because I wasn't trying to put her down I was just explaining that the things I was referring to could be found in the thread. As a matter of fact I believe ASG used both of those terms to be specific so it's easier for anyone looking who may have missed it.

 

You keep saying that your opinion is that the topic, Violence Against Women, is a NON ISSUE, your words exactly,

 

My words exactly: "My feelings on the topic has nothing to do with women specifically, I just don't think any form of media makes or encourages violence in mentally healthy people. Who is performing violence and on what is irrelevant to me because I don't believe it has any large adverse effect."

 

In other words VaW may be an actual issue depending on what part of the world we are talking about but VaW in media is not an issue to me. I don't believe violence of any kind in media has an adverse effect on sane adults.

 

 

It's very hard to say here who meant to say what. If you get misunderstood, generally it's because you weren't clear enough, so yes I think everyone needs to pay VERY close attention to what they're typing, and how they're typing it. Think before you post.

 

For instance, from what Nolder said it seems to me that he thinks Arez believes women in western societies are subjected to violence because they did it first. That's the best explanation I can find for "reciprocal", anyway. I'm sure Arez doesn't really believe that. 

 

I think it's best if each person speaks for himself here, yes?

 

Carry on.

Yes exactly. Which is exactly why I made this post not too long ago. I really wish we could just get back to the topic instead of getting upset about what we all think each other said/meant. IIRC over 70% of meaning is lost through text so it can be very hard to understand each other sometimes on the internet. We should all try to be accommodating and if there is some confusion ask politely for clarification.

[Gudrean]

Although I do not think violence in media makes most people want to do the things they see, I do believe that in some cases it does give an already jaded person the feeling that they have the right to do such things since it is obviously such a "normal" thing or it would not be in so much of our media. not to mention it gives plenty of new ideas to the ones who already commit such crimes. Do I think most people are complacent to the atrocities they see or hear in media? No I don't, but I do think it sends a message to the youth when they start experiencing them (the examples in media) that it is a normal part of life. I would hope that most people are disturbed or upset, as I am, by seeing these things, but I'm sure not all are and my personal opinion is that the saturation of violence in different forms of media are to blame for that. When you see it all the time you are bound to have your opinion of affected either in it making you more aware and angry about it in RL or by making you numb or complacent.

[Nolder]

 

2.Media exposure of Gendered Violence can have one of three separate effects.

           a) The Viewer engages in revenge fantasies (I want to kill all those jerks)

            b) the Viewer wants to act through positive means (I want to help the victims)

            c) The Viewer becomes hardened to violence. (I don’t see this as a problem/there is no problem).

Well call me C I guess but that's how I feel. It's entertainment and fantasy. It is not supposed to be taken seriously (usually) and definitely not to be acted upon in a similarly violent or even illegal manner. I believe the vast majority of people understand and practice this.

 

 

3. Gendered violence in media can deepen already existing sexist feeling on both sides: man and woman haters alike.  If Sexist Stan sees women being brutalized in his slasher flicks, he may take the attitude that “Well, women are stupid

anyway. They deserve to be if they’re going to be dumb and dress in skanky clothes, they deserve to be leered at/oogled/whatever they get.” If Man-hating Mary sees women brutally tortured, she may take the attitude “We need to make

all men eunuchs.” 

If someone already has a predisposition to violence or violent behavior I don't believe seeing it acted out reinforces those feelings or expands on them. There was already a problem there and seeing violence acted out doesn't make it any worse IMO.

 

 

In the works of Eminem, there is an overwhelming amount of “I wanna beat the woman, cut her throat” in the music REGARDLESS OF HOW HE ACTUALLY LIVES.

A person bopping along singing a tune about how they wanna slice someone’s throat may not want to go kill someone, but the very likely will be more likely to have negative sexist attitudes.  Things we sing about we are more likely to believe. (There is a  reason some religions rely on spiritual music and discourage people from listening to ‘secular tunes’)

I just don't buy it. People fantasize about killing their bosses/teachers/parents all the time. It's practically a trope in it's own right to hate your boss (See: Office Space). Very few people act on these thoughts. Merely having them, or even better expressing them (through music for example), helps to relieve and release the stress people actually feel towards whatever is bothering them. Saying "I want to kill my boss" makes people feel better. Similarly listening to a song about killing your girlfriend can relieve that same stress. Sane people do not listen to these song and take them literally. Going back to the example of eminem and to use his own lyrics as an argument:

 

They say music can alter moods and talk to you

Well can it load a gun up for you and cock it too?

Well if it can, then the next time you assault a dude

Just tell the judge it was my fault, and I'll get sued

- Sing for the Moment

 

Damn! How much damage can you do with a pen?

Man I'm just as f*****d up as you woulda been

if you woulda been, in my shoes, who woulda thought

Slim Shady would be somethin that you woulda bought

that woulda made you get a gun and shoot at a cop

I just said it - I ain't know if you'd do it or not

- Who Knew

 

In other words he is just an artist. He's a painter with words. If you paint a war scene does it make people want to go to war? If you paint a woman being raped does it make people want to rape women? I don't think so.

[Gudrean]

 

 

2.Media exposure of Gendered Violence can have one of three separate effects.

           a) The Viewer engages in revenge fantasies (I want to kill all those jerks)

            b) the Viewer wants to act through positive means (I want to help the victims)

            c) The Viewer becomes hardened to violence. (I don’t see this as a problem/there is no problem).

Well call me C I guess but that's how I feel. It's entertainment and fantasy. It is not supposed to be taken seriously (usually) and definitely not to be acted upon in a similarly violent or even illegal manner. I believe the vast majority of people understand and practice this.

 

> 

3. Gendered violence in media can deepen already existing sexist feeling on both sides: man and woman haters alike.  If Sexist Stan sees women being brutalized in his slasher flicks, he may take the attitude that “Well, women are stupid

anyway. They deserve to be if they’re going to be dumb and dress in skanky clothes, they deserve to be leered at/oogled/whatever they get.” If Man-hating Mary sees women brutally tortured, she may take the attitude “We need to make

all men eunuchs.” 

If someone already has a predisposition to violence or violent behavior I don't believe seeing it acted out reinforces those feelings or expands on them. There was already a problem there and seeing violence acted out doesn't make it any worse IMO.

 

 

In the works of Eminem, there is an overwhelming amount of “I wanna beat the woman, cut her throat” in the music REGARDLESS OF HOW HE ACTUALLY LIVES.

A person bopping along singing a tune about how they wanna slice someone’s throat may not want to go kill someone, but the very likely will be more likely to have negative sexist attitudes.  Things we sing about we are more likely to believe. (There is a  reason some religions rely on spiritual music and discourage people from listening to ‘secular tunes’)

I just don't buy it. People fantasize about killing their bosses/teachers/parents all the time. It's practically a trope in it's own right to hate your boss (See: Office Space). Very few people act on these thoughts. Merely having them, or even better expressing them (through music for example), helps to relieve and release the stress people actually feel towards whatever is bothering them. Saying "I want to kill my boss" makes people feel better. Similarly listening to a song about killing your girlfriend can relieve that same stress. Sane people do not listen to these song and take them literally. Going back to the example of eminem and to use his own lyrics as an argument:

 

They say music can alter moods and talk to you

Well can it load a gun up for you and cock it too?

Well if it can, then the next time you assault a dude

Just tell the judge it was my fault, and I'll get sued

- Sing for the Moment

 

Damn! How much damage can you do with a pen?

Man I'm just as f*****d up as you woulda been

if you woulda been, in my shoes, who woulda thought

Slim Shady would be somethin that you woulda bought

that woulda made you get a gun and shoot at a cop

I just said it - I ain't know if you'd do it or not

- Who Knew

 

In other words he is just an artist. He's a painter with words. If you paint a war scene does it make people want to go to war? If you paint a woman being raped does it make people want to rape women? I don't think so.

 

no painting a picture of a woman being raped just says that you are sick....

[Nolder]

The thing about art is that it doesn't necessarily represent the artists personal views.

 

Let's say an artists painted a picture of a woman being raped.

You think that artist is sick? Maybe the woman in the painting is the artists mother and was something they saw as a child and painting it is their way of letting out the negative emotions associated with the incident.

[TylerRVG]

I'm with Nolder on that one. Saying an artist is sick just because what they depicted, without taking into consideration why, who or how it was depicted is a pretty close-minded thing to do, if you ask me.

[Moon Sedai]

Media can and has caused significant problems with some people. 

 

In Ancient Greece, Socrates was sentenced to death because of crimes committed not by himself, but by an artistic rendering done of him in a play. 

 

People base political opinions on a regular basis not on the politics, but by how the politicians are portrayed in the media.

 

 

and Nolder: 
Don't post in this thread again. 

If the topic is not an issue to you, it is not an issue enough for you to post in my thread.

[Gudrean]

I have been molested, yet to deal with it I have not felt the need to paint a picture about it, or write a song about it or even an article, actually the only time I have ever even spoke about it is in a moment when it seemed it would help someone else. So no I do not feel rational sane people express/release their negative emotions through art forms. I would think a person trying to get over a rape, whether their own or someone close to them would want to stay as far away from the visuals as they can. In my own opinion, musicians write about things they have experienced or someone they know have experienced, but not as a release. Simply because it is what they know. Or what they resonate with. Me personally, if I was trying to move past being raped, i would sooner paint flowers and the sun than a picture of my horrific experience. I like Eminem's music, however I do not think he writes it to release the urge to do it, because he has done some of the things he writes about and I guarantee if in the right situation, most of the things he says would not be things he would hold back at doing if it struck him to. just saying, thug life and all, it's a mentality, not just an act/character. as for artists, they usually do paint from their heart, so if it's dark, so is their painting, now I'm not saying dark is bad, but if their heart is "sick" well...

[Nolder]

So because I disagree I'm not allowed to post? 

That sucks but ok whatever you say.

Bye everyone.

[Gudrean]

I'm with Nolder on that one. Saying an artist is sick just because what they depicted, without taking into consideration why, who or how it was depicted is a pretty close-minded thing to do, if you ask me.

maybe so but it's my mind and my opinion, and you calling me closed minded is not very polite, now is it?

[The_Fnorrll_Reborn]

If you are on of the guys offering a "dissenting opinion" here, please listen very carefully.

 

You have a right to your opinion. You have a right to express it- but you are obligated to do so in a very tactful way. I demand- yes, demand- respect at all times from members of the White Tower towards one another and towards the ladies of the Tower, but a subject like this calls for an extra level of tact and caution.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that this is an extremely sensitive subject. For all you guys may know, some of our members may have personal experience of abusive relationships or violent/sexually violent situations. You of course would unlikely be aware if such a highly personal experience.

 

Discuss the subject at hand but do so with these thoughts in mind. If you cant moderate your tone more than you would normally do given the sensitivity of the subject matter, you may excuse yourself from the discussion. The need not to cause emotional distress to any if our female members far outweighs the need for you to have the right to express your opinion. There is no need to argue the toss to try and win an arguement- we dont hand out prizes for that around here.

 

For the record, yes this world is a damned violent and cruel place- but because it is International Womens Week we are discussing Violence against Women. The fact that men also suffer violence does not detract in any way from the impact of the subject at hand. My personal opinion is that no man who isnt moved by a more vulnerable person such as a woman or a child being mistreated by someone more physically powerful is no man at all. I have experience of it within my immediate family.

 

By the way, what we see and hear has an enormous affect on us psychologically. If you choose to believe that or not, thats up to you- but they dont spend billions and billions a year on advertising for nothing.

 

Finally, Nolder, I have to single you out I'm afraid. I dont remember seeing you around the Tower much before so I dont know if you came here purely to debate, but as I mentioned above I expect a certain amount of tact and respectfulness. Your tone hasnt conveyed that, and I think it would be appropriate if you apologise briefly to anyone you have upset- although Im sure we can all agree it was not your intention. *edit* not everyone who disagrees has been spoken to- you have because of the manner in which you have disagreed. You of course have the right to leave if you dont like that.

 

And yes- all of you- I am 100% serious about all this. I hope I dont have to post in this thread in this way again.

 

Fnorrll, Sword Captain.

[TylerRVG]

So no I do not feel rational sane people express/release their negative emotions through art forms.

 

 

...I have no words.

[WildTaltos]

I have been molested, yet to deal with it I have not felt the need to paint a picture about it, or write a song about it or even an article, actually the only time I have ever even spoke about it is in a moment when it seemed it would help someone else. So no I do not feel rational sane people express/release their negative emotions through art forms. I would think a person trying to get over a rape, whether their own or someone close to them would want to stay as far away from the visuals as they can. In my own opinion, musicians write about things they have experienced or someone they know have experienced, but not as a release. Simply because it is what they know. Or what they resonate with. Me personally, if I was trying to move past being raped, i would sooner paint flowers and the sun than a picture of my horrific experience. I like Eminem's music, however I do not think he writes it to release the urge to do it, because he has done some of the things he writes about and I guarantee if in the right situation, most of the things he says would not be things he would hold back at doing if it struck him to. just saying, thug life and all, it's a mentality, not just an act/character. as for artists, they usually do paint from their heart, so if it's dark, so is their painting, now I'm not saying dark is bad, but if their heart is "sick" well...

 

I dont think th boldrd is a fair thng to say, becuse peple handl trauma an aftremath diferently. Soem liek you mentin  try avoid al physicl remindes of waht hapened to best of abilty, try errase it from memry or aways have it supresed, but othres may devlop obessision ovre it an may exploer why it hapened to thme, or taek less logicl and admitedly irational ruotes. The obsesed or oens who think of it alot I wuoldnt call insane or irational thuogh often becuse they cant find way to be at peac they may transcnd into taht. My own expreince with soemting simlar resulted in obsesion and thugoh I wuold never draw waht hapneed or maek a song abuot it or wriet everything in detail, alot of my art can br very dark an trubling, recreatin feelin of what hapened thogh nevre actual details. Lol Im not the most ratonal person in th world but I kno there aer others moer rational wth truobled pasts who expres negativty in their art.

[blank]

When it comes down to art, I think if there is a "line" it would be extremely hard to define. Like Taltos said above, a lot of people can find therapy in releasing these dark emotions through their art. So when it comes to things like paintings and song lyrics that I personally find disturbing I assume it's meant to shock people - to keep reminding people that these awful things happen.

 

There is no doubt though that woman are generally badly portrayed in some media. There is one game - I think it's one of the Grand Theft Autos - where you can "go" with a prostitute. It goes to a cut scene so I don't think you see anything. Afterwards (as I was informed by my little brother) you can then scare the lady and she'll drop the money you gave her and run away. I've subsequently heard this from other guys and there was a  tendancy to think that it's all a laugh. 

 

It's not funny. At all. I know that people can separate real life from video games and I don't think that anyone playing GTA would be likely to do that to a real life person but that kind of casual disregard, to me, is quite chilling.

[Arez Al'Loke]

Just a quick response to Blank about GTA!

 

A rather unsensitive description follows the spoiler

 

 

From my PoV, games rarely give you the possibility to be a "bad" guy.

What this game did was introduce a forest of evil things, that is essentially the purpose of the game.

 

So when you suddenly end up with all of these new possibilties, it gets exciting from a technical aspect.

 

You don't want to spend hard earned cash in the game, but you need to eat a pizza. What to do... GTA has the answer, you eat till you vomit (which you can do in the early GTA games) then you shoot the pizza guy in the head. If you're unlucky, the other pizza guy suddenly has a shotgun in his hands.

 

I recall that happening to me when I played the game with a friend for the first time, my character got blow to piecea and we had a good laugh. Not because of death, but rather, the surprises the game had.

 

The same way this instance amused me and my friend, is highly possible that your little brother had. The fact that it was a she, wasn't the entertaining part. The entertainig part is the inventiveness of the game that lets you do "evil" things.

 

And after awhile, when the prospect of doing evil stuff is not as new anymore, you tire of it.. Driving over hundreds of people loses its appeal, killing people for no reason becomes very dull, and eventually, it's just another boring game gathering dust on a shelf.

 

Sorry for the harsh way I described the game, don't want to pull wool over your eyes. The description is a 100percent accurate description of what you can do in the game.

 

[AesSedaiGuy]

Just a quick response to Blank about GTA!A rather unsensitive description follows the spoiler

From my PoV, games rarely give you the possibility to be a "bad" guy.What this game did was introduce a forest of evil things, that is essentially the purpose of the game. So when you suddenly end up with all of these new possibilties, it gets exciting from a technical aspect.You don't want to spend hard earned cash in the game, but you need to eat a pizza. What to do... GTA has the answer, you eat till you vomit (which you can do in the early GTA games) then you shoot the pizza guy in the head. If you're unlucky, the other pizza guy suddenly has a shotgun in his hands.I recall that happening to me when I played the game with a friend for the first time, my character got blow to piecea and we had a good laugh. Not because of death, but rather, the surprises the game had.The same way this instance amused me and my friend, is highly possible that your little brother had. The fact that it was a she, wasn't the entertaining part. The entertainig part is the inventiveness of the game that lets you do "evil" things. And after awhile, when the prospect of doing evil stuff is not as new anymore, you tire of it.. Driving over hundreds of people loses its appeal, killing people for no reason becomes very dull, and eventually, it's just another boring game gathering dust on a shelf.Sorry for the harsh way I described the game, don't want to pull wool over your eyes. The description is a 100percent accurate description of what you can do in the game.

 

I get Arez's point and agree with the end that once the "new" wears off, the "evil" things become tiresome. I have seen this over and over. However, and I think this may be part of the point earlier, that some of my fellow males fail to realize, is that these arguments actually prove the point. NOT because we male are desensitized by video games or other things, (I dont necessarily buy into that theory either) rather, because we cannot or do not relate to these depictions in the same way. When Arez talks about GTA or blank talks about her little brother and the game, they see themselves as the "perpetrator" of the violence. Blanks brother doesn't "live" with the same psychologically, sympathetic relationship to the prostitute character that blank does. NO I AM NOT SAYING BLANK IS A PROSTITUTE. Rather, I am saying women see these acts at not just another person, or even at a person who happens to be female, but when the crime or violence is against the nature of womanhood, there is a greater relevancy for women. I don't know if I am digging myself into a hole ... But let me go further ... :-)

 

Knowing someone is a victim to a violent act is open to a spectrum of responses by both women and men, depending on the individual's personality. However, when the victim is a victim BECAUSE she is a woman, or in a way women are uniquely susceptible, there is a different reaction, response or relationship because the victim was a victim BECAUSE of her womanhood, not just because she was a victim of bad luck or timing.

 

All I can say is, as a male we cannot usually fully understand nor appreciate the affect on the psyche of women when the crime is against, not just female victims, but against Women. We have to come to a place that respects that. It is not our place to dismiss the reaction and response, because we cannot fully comprehend that response, because we are not likely to see ourselves in a sympathetic relationship with the victim in the same way.

 

Again, this does not state that men will perpetrate violence because of video games, art, books, TV shows however, it does mean we may not recognize the effect of the presence of that violence on women. And because we don't get that, we are therefore insensitive (not overcharging the word, just a clinical use/statement of the word) and our role is to recognize that insensitivity and do our best to stand beside our mothers, sisters, daughters, friends and recognize their response is legitimate. I also believe women have an obligation to discern between violence which happens to have a female victim and violence because the victim is a female. However, men have the obligation to ask ourselves why we are wanting to depict, watch etc. violence done against a person because they are a woman. If it is to deal with our own pain or issues and are attempting to find healing or a voice though art, whatever medium; or to bring awareness and reflection to the issue in our society or community, or if it is to provide historical/realistic context; then that reasoning should be explained and/or obvious. If our intent is to vicariously participate, subjectively dismiss or refuse to cede the point that the act being depicted is uniquely a crime against women, then we are at best being insensitive to and at worst being complicit with the denigration of women. When we are on this spectrum we are perpetrating the myth that women are not subject uniquely to certain violent acts solely because of their sex. And that is the ultimate point I think I am trying to make...(sorry for the path i took to get here. )...When a crime is committed against a woman BECAUSE of her sex, it is in part a crime against all members OF her sex.

[Gudrean]

 

So no I do not feel rational sane people express/release their negative emotions through art forms.

 

 

...I have no words.

 

 

this is just not nice

[TylerRVG]

You just called everyone who expresses their negative emotions via art irrational and insane. And yet you are complaining about me being not nice?

[Gudrean]

 

I have been molested, yet to deal with it I have not felt the need to paint a picture about it, or write a song about it or even an article, actually the only time I have ever even spoke about it is in a moment when it seemed it would help someone else. So no I do not feel rational sane people express/release their negative emotions through art forms. I would think a person trying to get over a rape, whether their own or someone close to them would want to stay as far away from the visuals as they can. In my own opinion, musicians write about things they have experienced or someone they know have experienced, but not as a release. Simply because it is what they know. Or what they resonate with. Me personally, if I was trying to move past being raped, i would sooner paint flowers and the sun than a picture of my horrific experience. I like Eminem's music, however I do not think he writes it to release the urge to do it, because he has done some of the things he writes about and I guarantee if in the right situation, most of the things he says would not be things he would hold back at doing if it struck him to. just saying, thug life and all, it's a mentality, not just an act/character. as for artists, they usually do paint from their heart, so if it's dark, so is their painting, now I'm not saying dark is bad, but if their heart is "sick" well...

 

I dont think th boldrd is a fair thng to say, becuse peple handl trauma an aftremath diferently. Soem liek you mentin  try avoid al physicl remindes of waht hapened to best of abilty, try errase it from memry or aways have it supresed, but othres may devlop obessision ovre it an may exploer why it hapened to thme, or taek less logicl and admitedly irational ruotes. The obsesed or oens who think of it alot I wuoldnt call insane or irational thuogh often becuse they cant find way to be at peac they may transcnd into taht. My own expreince with soemting simlar resulted in obsesion and thugoh I wuold never draw waht hapneed or maek a song abuot it or wriet everything in detail, alot of my art can br very dark an trubling, recreatin feelin of what hapened thogh nevre actual details. Lol Im not the most ratonal person in th world but I kno there aer others moer rational wth truobled pasts who expres negativty in their art.

this comment was a direct response to something Nolder had asked, so the references of rational and sane were because he had used those words earlier. My comment about the not expressing the negative emotion in art was directed at the painting of someone being raped. I do not feel that a painting like this is simply releasing negative emotions, I feel it is something much deeper, I do think that art is a form of expression, just not that particular art we were talking about. I am sorry for not wording it more clearly earlier.

[Gudrean]

You just called everyone who expresses their negative emotions via art irrational and insane. And yet you are complaining about me being not nice?

those were your words I was just using for your benefit, I would never assume to call anyone irrational and insane,