Egwene's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[marnir]

Egwenes death was for sure the saddest part of the book. I really liked her character, and didn´t feel that the story with anti balefire was forced. Apart from the arguments above, with people having discovered new weaves at the right time before, anti balefire fits pretty well into the rules of this universe. Quendillar was supposed to be indestructable, for ever burned into the weave, and stil there was a way to destroy it. In the same way balefire was supposed to be permanent, but really it wasn´t.

[Treebeard]

Egwene was one of my favourite character - but  I liked that she died and in the way that she did it , revenging her dead husband ( who by the way is a fool of such immense proportion that i am speechless and "deserves" death)., also showing some will to sacrifice herself 

but yes her appears at the field at Merrilor was just wired . In her captivity she is telling Elaida out for not thinking on the POD and gives many reasons for this , when Morgiene confronts her with the same arguments she is like " oh my god that i have´t thought about" - so yes ,  bad  character handling there.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Egwene shouldn't have married Gawyn. When I read that oneliner telling us that the two of them had married I just knew they would both. XD

Gawyn was a given since like all the other Trakands he's pathologically suicidal and thus was always living on borrowed time. That said Egwene totally died the death of a Sue. As I read I was running out of fingers for all the indicators.

 

As someone who never liked Egwene this didn't bother me all that much, but I think all of you who truly liked her character have reason to be disappointed.

 

Other than that, yeah Egwene was all over the place in the book, curiously it seemed to me as BS got better at writing Mat he got worse at writing Egwene.

 

As for the Aes Sedai and the female channellers as a whole where were so many of them? I thought there were several hundred windfinders and over a thousand Wise Ones, why did we only see a few dozen of them? And what sort of madness possessed Egwene and the Hall to send all their novices and Accepted to Mayene and not recall them when they found themselves outnumbered against the Sharans all the time?

[Rand the Plumber]

She's dead, and I'm glad. I've said elsewhere that the ghost of Egwene has far more potential for influence than her living, breathing counterpart.

 

Only, it was all spoiled by putting one of the Old Guard on the Amyrlin Seat.

[lilltempest]

Am I the only one who found the whole anti-Balefire thing to be a bit of an ass-pull?

You aren't alone. If it had been written differently, I probably wouldn't have minded.

 

A scene between Egwene and Nynaeve, before everyone split up, with Egwene commenting on the ground looking as though it were breaking apart and the darkness inside and Nynaeve commenting on how it reminded her of Healing men who have been severed would have fit nicely. Nynaeve is the expert on Healing what can't be healed, and Egwene excels at Earth and Fire. If Nyn had explained to her about how a severed channeler has to have something to bridge the gap that was created by the severing, then she would have thought on it (she has always been the type to think out weaves before trying them rather than fly by the seat of her pants the way Nynaeve does) and managed to reason out that the "nothingness" created in the land by balefire had to be filled with something...and that something is probably life/soul/whatever.

 

In that scene, I honestly thought she wanted to die, not because of Gawyn, but because she had channeled so much for so long that she knew she would be burned out as soon as she released saidar. Egwene could not survive without that power - she would've lost everything, because no matter how "awesome" all the AS think she is, they would've have allowed her to be their little dictator if she could not channel. Though I don't think she would've gone that far in her thought process, I could've seen her consciously making the decision to sacrifice herself to "fill" those gaps with the weave she managed to create, one that used Earth and Spirit to send her "light" (her life) into the Pattern to fill the gaps, and knowing that it would take that sacrifice to truly fill the gaps. Balefire steals life, but it also puts holes in the Pattern, ultimately endangering the turning of the Wheel...it makes sense that it would take a sacrifice of life (and likely power, since saidar and saidin are what helps the Wheel to turn) in order to patch the damage when the damage is too great.

 

But I don't buy Egwene coming up with that weave on the fly. The weave is about Healing, which is something she stinks at. If Nynaeve had set her on the path to thinking about it, using the exmple I indicated, it would've made a hell of a lot more sense and wouldn't have seemed like some Mary Sue bullsh!te to try to ram down our throats, yet again, how utterly perfect, awesome, and unbeatable Egwene is.

[NitroS]

Felt fitting that the leader of the white tower defeated the leader of the black tower, only problem was egwene didnt beat taim when he didnt have the saangreal but then when he gets it he should have overpowered egwene easily and he loses.

[Suttree]

 

She's dead, and I'm glad. I've said elsewhere that the ghost of Egwene has far more potential for influence than her living, breathing counterpart.Only, it was all spoiled by putting one of the Old Guard on the Amyrlin Seat.

Actually that was left ambigious by Brandon. It wasn't an offical summons and we don't know if it will actually happen. Regardless if by "old guard" you mean what an AS was back during the Trolloc Wars and ideally should be now then yes she is. Per RJ she is "remarkably adaptable" and did more for Rand than just about any other person in the series. She doesn't suffer fools and yet is almost unfailingly fair treating people based on their actions. Further she has been driven to help better people by any means throughout the entire series. She would certainly apply that to the WT and it's sisters.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Suttree

[Slick Mongoose]

A rather quick thought on Egwene, just before the Dragon's Peace meeting, she mentions that she has a headache that wasn't as bad as when Halima was treating her.   I've been wondering if that didn't suggest that she might have still been suffering the results of Halima's tampering with her or even some additional Shadow tampering like we saw with the great captains.  

 

I agree, Halima's "treatment" must have had something to do with her attitude in opposing Rand. It's hard to understand what Halima was doing otherwise. Although I don't know if compulsion can survive the compulsor's death.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Slick Mongoose

[MasterAblar]

Felt fitting that the leader of the white tower defeated the leader of the black tower, only problem was egwene didnt beat taim when he didnt have the saangreal but then when he gets it he should have overpowered egwene easily and he loses.

It's possible he would have overpowered her if she hadn't gone beyond what she could safely channel. Her anti-balefire only broke through once she decided to do so. That's where the shadow is at a distinct disadvantage. They don't have individuals will to sacrifice themselves for their cause, like Galad, Gawyn, Egwene, and Lan. They're selfish.

 

I do agree that it was fitting that the leader of the "good Aes Sedai" take out the leader of the bad "Asha'man", although the fact that Egwene and Taim had basically never even met each other took away from it a little I thought. I wouldn't of minded if Logain had similarly dealt Alviarin, but Androl took care of that.

 

Actually that was left ambigious by Brandon. It wasn't an offical summons and we don't know if it will actually happen. Regardless if by "old guard" you mean what an AS was back during the Trolloc Wars and ideally should be now then yes she is. Per RJ she is "remarkably adaptable" and did more for Rand than just about any other person in the series. She doesn't suffer fools and yet is almost unfailingly fair treating people based on their actions. Further she has been driven to help better people by any means throughout the entire series. She would certainly apply that to the WT and it's sisters.

I actually doubt they'll manage to make her the Amyrlin. It's not like they haven't tried in the past already.

 

I agree, Halima's "treatment" must have had something to do with her attitude in opposing Rand. It's hard to understand what Halima was doing otherwise. Although I don't know if compulsion can survive the compulsor's death.

Honestly, I'm suprised Cadsuane hadn't spanked every last person in that tent, apart from the Aiel and (shockingly) the Sea Folk, by the end of the chapter.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Master Ablar

[MasterAblar]

double post

Edited January 11, 2013 by Master Ablar

[clu7ch]

First of all, her death was completely foreshadowed  She was one person i was POSITIVE would die (Even though I didn't want that, she's my favorite character) It was subtle. All that work up, all the amazing things she did, all the toes she stepped on, her super fast rise to power. It's as the GB/Siuane conversation went in the tower when rand showed up: She's the one they need now. now. as in, she's got about one serious use in her, and that is owning ass. Maybe it was a feeling more than foreshadow. But i knew when Gawyn had the rings, he was dead. I knew he'd drive her insane. (Which didn't happen to my liking) But safe to say, I just knew she was toast. 

 

As for the whole 'over drawing power' through Vora's wand, I'd say need found it's way into the real world. She needed to kill him. She needed to make Eldrene proud. and she did. 

[Torome]

I did not like Egwene for most of the series, but when she died I actually shed a tear.  I kinda had the feeling something was going to happen after I read the scene where she and Fortuona were arguing and Egwene said, "I expect to live centuries..."

[Suttree]

As for the whole 'over drawing power' through Vora's wand, I'd say need found it's way into the real world. She needed to kill him. She needed to make Eldrene proud. and she did.

Wasn't there one sentence added as a seeming afterthought about it not having a buffer?

[clu7ch]

there wasn't much family development with her parents. I'd have liked to see their reaction to things in her life more that I was given. 

[NitroS]

people are overestimating the foreshadowing there was tons of things throughout the series that wasnt foreshadowed by rj. People complaining there was no foreshadowing for egwene seriously? its the last battle people are going to die without warning.

[XoMeltdownoX]

Let me start off by saying that I have always disliked this character. I have only ever changed that view in TGS, and by ToM I was back to being disgusted by her some (most?) of her actions. But I have to give credit where it is due; Egwene absolutely rocked in aMoL. She was fantastic from beginning to end. I was actually sad to see her go. But damn, she went out like a true Hero!

 

Upon reflection, I think it was Brandon's version of Egwene that I liked. She may have been the only character that improved under Brandon. I have a feeling if RJ had been able to finish the series, I would not have liked Egwene no matter how awesome he made her.

[XoMeltdownoX]

 

 

As for the whole 'over drawing power' through Vora's wand, I'd say need found it's way into the real world. She needed to kill him. She needed to make Eldrene proud. and she did.

Wasn't there one sentence added as a seeming afterthought about it not having a buffer?

Yes, that was the only real problem I had with her death. The lack of a buffer came out of nowhere. It certainly is a possibility, as it was probably made toward the end of the AoL. The only other times this SA was used in the books was while linked.

1. Healing Mat

2. Egwene going postal on the Seanchan

[Wingendosering]

I think lopozop nailed it.  I don't think Egwene 'died' as people might think.  Physically, she's dead, yes, but I got the feeling that she turned herself into a part of the pattern.

 

Balefire works by burning a thread out of the pattern.  Depending on the strength, it burns further and further back in time.

 

If this weave was the opposite then it should solidify all of the weaves around it and stabilize the whole tapestry, so to speak.

 

When Egwene 'died', her body seemed to literally transform into crystals, which we'd only previously seen as an object that literally held part of the world together.  Didn't she say that the weave wouldn't be as effective (or even kill possibly) one that wasn't dedicated tot eh shadow?  How would it have killed her then?

 

To top all of this off, there's Rand hearing her voice in his head shortly afterward.  This could be taken literally or figuratively, but considering he was watching the pattern and (in my mind) she BECAME part of the pattern, it makes sense that she could have communicated with him.

 

Regardless, I didn't see her death coming, but it was nice to have a surprise of some kind.  If anything I would have liked more important character deaths.  I do agree that the FoM scene near the beginning of the book was all over the place though.

 

 

Upon reflection, I think it was Brandon's version of Egwene that I liked. She may have been the only character that improved under Brandon. I have a feeling if RJ had been able to finish the series, I would not have liked Egwene no matter how awesome he made her.

Really?  I feel like RJ had a larger world focus, but BJ does better with characters (though this could be tied to the plot demanding character evolution rather than BS himself).  I loved Rand's transformation in TGS.  Egwene improved.  Perrin certainly became more interesting.  The only character I felt died in the transition was Mat.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Wingendosering

[Mark Al Thor]

In regards to Leilwein Shipless.....wouldnt she have gone into a warder rage after Egwenes death?? We'll never know but it seems to me she'd have the same fate as Bryne.

 

We'll never know but its just another thing ive thought about. Domon SHOULD be a widower now.

[MasterAblar]

In regards to Leilwein Shipless.....wouldnt she have gone into a warder rage after Egwenes death?? We'll never know but it seems to me she'd have the same fate as Bryne.

 

We'll never know but its just another thing ive thought about. Domon SHOULD be a widower now.

Egwene ended the bond right before killing herself.

[Guest calculus]

Personally, I am glad Egwene died.

Partly, this is because I think that had she lived, I think she would have become insufferable as an Amyrlin. She would have been a living legend and it would have blinded people. Healed the Tower's rift, youngest Amyrlin, longest reigning Amyrlin (had she lived), rediscovered Travelling and other weaves, Dreamer, Black Ajah huntress and house cleaner, and Tower renaissance are just some of the things that would have been credited to her. With all that under her belt, and everyone in the Tower knowing it, it is pretty much guaranteed that it will eventually go to the Tower's collective head and few will bother to question her (assuming she continues to show the same political skill).

Another part is because it never seemed to me that Egwene was whole to begin with. She gave herself too completely to her role. In the beginning she gave herself over completely to becoming a Wisdom. Then she attached herself to Moiraine, and gave herself completely over to becoming an Aes Sedai. When she arrived at the Tower, she gave herself over to the Tower and its needs. Upon being raised Amyrlin, she became Amyrlin. As the series progressed, Egwene became less and less and she was swallowed by her role. Contrast this with Nynaeve, who in the beginning was the role and became less and less that and more an individual. For Nynaeve that culminated with nearly telling Egwene screw the Tower, I'm going my way.

So yeah, I'm glad Egwene croaked.

[John Everyman]

I have mixed feelings on Egwene's death. 

 

On the positive side, it was beautifully written (at least, her 'conversation' with Rand was).  Egwene was annoying at times, but she was fantastic in KOD and in Sanderson's books (it was a total character change, but it was for the better, in my personal opinion).  It's going to be so strange rereading the series, knowing that Rand is not the one to die at the Last Battle (well, not entirely), but Egwene. 

 

On the other, I was convinced Egwene was going to be an integral leader following The Last Battle.  Considering she freed Logain, he might trust her enough to work with her, so that the White and Black towers can coexist peacefully.  That trust would likely lead to Egwene sending Nynaeve to heal the mens madness (though that may have happened anyway). 

 

I'm... not convinced Cadsuane will be a good Amyrlin.  She's uncompromising and, whether she knows it or not, a good leader, but a diplomat she is not.  If I had to guess, I'd say her role in history is to enforce the changes that Egwene set down.  She likely won't hold the position for very long, considering her age.  I imagine she'll be remembered as a transitory Amyrlin.  Who knows who will take over after Cadsuane passes: perhaps Bode? 

 

One thing I'm very interested to hear from others: was it thematically appropriate for Egwene to die, in your opinion?  Will relations with the Seanchan and Black Tower suffer without her?  Looking back on the series (this I cannot do, as this is my first read of the Wheel of Time), does it feel "right" that Egwene is only one of the six (arguably) main characters to die?  As I said, I'm completely split on it.  It worked wonderfully in the sense that it was a shock; by the time Egwene died, I was convinced that Rand was going to do something that would bring back all those who died in the Last Battle, because RJ had been so reluctant to kill characters up to that point. 

 

Part of me wants to say I wish Elayne had died instead, but I don't really, because I liked Elayne so much less than Egwene, it would have hit me so much less. 

Edited January 12, 2013 by instantdeath99

[John Everyman]

 

Egwene is the absolute worst character they could have chosen to kill off. We spent so much time watching her train to become an Aes Sedai, a Wise One, rise to power as the youngest Amyrlin ever, settle the division in the White Tower, initiate a number of much-needed reforms, eradicate the Black Ajah, confront the Seanchan empress, was promised to be the longest-reigning and most powerful Amyrlin in history - and she's the only one who is first deprived of her loved one, and then of her life? Was this really a way of saying "even the most May Suish character can die in this series"? Even Rand got to remain alive, by predictably taking over Moridin's body. Nobody else out of the first and second-tier characters died, so what gives? I just don't see what Egwene's death was supposed to accomplish, especially considering that her replacement Cadsuane will likely die of old age very soon. It's the least of the problems that this awful, awful volume suffers from, but it is the most baffling one. Feels like it was picked completely at random, or based on fan hatred.

someone give this man a medal

 

perhaps we should ask our resident wise one terez to chase this issue with brandon and co.

 

there is no foreshadowing of egwene's death at all in this series. not even once.

 

even moridin/rand body swap was hinted by min in book 7!!

 

Actually, I'm almost positive that it was foreshadowed in one of Min's viewings.  I don't remember exactly- I've read the books over the past few months- but I do remember a scene where Egwene is walking among pillars of glass, and Min see's "an explosion of light" from Egwene, or something similar. 

 

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure on that one.

[Duskfire]

One thing I'm very interested to hear from others: was it thematically appropriate for Egwene to die, in your opinion?  Will relations with the Seanchan and Black Tower suffer without her?  Looking back on the series (this I cannot do, as this is my first read of the Wheel of Time), does it feel "right" that Egwene is only one of the six (arguably) main characters to die?  As I said, I'm completely split on it.  It worked wonderfully in the sense that it was a shock; by the time Egwene died, I was convinced that Rand was going to do something that would bring back all those who died in the Last Battle, because RJ had been so reluctant to kill characters up to that point.

 

The Final Battle needed Egwene, and she was also needed to repair the Whitetower and get everyone to where they were needed. However I think in the peace time afterwards, Cadsuane will be better at the role. The Whitetower needs to change and adept, starting with the oath rod, but also changing how strength determines leadership for the most part. Cadsuane also has a much better relationship with the Asha`man, is on friendly terms with the Wise Ones (although so was Egwene) and would probably be alot less angry when dealing with the Seanchan.

 

When Egwene last saw Tuon, she thought something along the lines of, "I am not done with you." Despite her new Warder, Egwene was never going to get over the Seanchan. She would have had a hard time coming to terms with any truce they had while the Seanchan still had damane and still had lands. So yeah, out of the main characters, I think her dying was the one that made the most sense in terms of progressing the story.

 

That is of course all speculation.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Duskfire

[Suttree]

Another part is because it never seemed to me that Egwene was whole to begin with. She gave herself too completely to her role. In the beginning she gave herself over completely to becoming a Wisdom. Then she attached herself to Moiraine, and gave herself completely over to becoming an Aes Sedai. When she arrived at the Tower, she gave herself over to the Tower and its needs. Upon being raised Amyrlin, she became Amyrlin. As the series progressed, Egwene became less and less and she was swallowed by her role.

But this assessment  doesn't take in her reasoning for wanting a whole WT. She was shoved into the position and they tried to make her a puppet. Once she got her feet in her she was focused on the LB and the world needed a whole WT. She may have drank the kool-aid a bit much but you can't question her motivations. Add to that her reformist nature and calling the AS fools that must change their ways and it's clear she may have gave herself over to her role but not the institution. She did what she thought was best for the greater good much like the other characters. That gets lost in her being first then "learn everything" and then "politician" type, especially after she was forced into the role of Amyrlin.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Suttree