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Everything posted by Wingendosering

  1. Barid Bel Medar nailed it. Demandred delivered in my opinion. Everything from his appearance to his dialogue was nearly perfect to me. I was fine with the 'robot' approach people mentioned. Those who've read his backstory know that as time went on he became more and more obsessed with besting the Dragon. It completely unhinged him and turned him to shadow. That's what we knew about him and that's what we got. If anything, it's WH where he seems out of character, since all the other references to him and his backstory show that he's completely insane. As many in this thread have said, he finally had a taste of being the man of legends and he wanted to kill the man who had always made him feel so inferior. More background about shara and how he fulfilled their prophecies would have been nice though. Having said that, I would have preferred Galad killing him. Just leave out Lan's fight and have Galad avenge his brother (although how crappy must Gawyn have been in combat if three bloodrings still didn't put him on par with Galad?). Gawyn fighting one on one made sense. He was already dying from the first ring and he was known to be a reckless fool. Galad fighting also made sense, since he'd just watched his brother die. As it is, Galad ends up being a pretty worthless character. He never accomplishes anything of note. To those asking why he was so inclined to the sword: 1) It states repeatedly that he tries to kill Gawyn with the power, but Gawyn is too fast for the weaves (kinda BS, since they should be faster than a sword swipe) and he throws rocks whenever able. 2) He needed to goad the dragon into a appearing and he knew Galad was his half-brother. If there would be any time for a fair fight ending in a humiliating defeat to draw out the Dragon, that would be it. 3) Lan's was just stupid as I stated above. He did try and kill Lan with the power though, the medallion just protected him. This is the only fight where it doesn't make sense for him to have ordered his troops to stand aside. I don't think people can blame BS for the duels. They MUST have been outlined by Jordan. I can't imagine BS having control over who killed Demandred or whether or not Gawyn survived. The Galad fight is the only one that BS might have improvised. I have a feeling he was just told 'Galad gets wounded and ends up with Berelain' and chose to tie it to Gawyn.
  2. No discussion of Padan Fain? I quite enjoyed his end. Quick, clean, no epic battle, just a simple stab to the chest. I do wish he'd made his presence known a little earlier though, so he wasn't just a one chapter villain. Mat on the whole didn't interest me much. He's the only character that in my opinion died in the author transition. Tuon/Fortuona I just hate. I can't make myself like her. I'm hoping to see some notes released about Mat/Tuon and the Seanchan threat post aMoL though. I can't see them keeping the Dragon's Peace and if anything, Aviendha's change at the FoM will make it MORE likely that they and the Seanchan would end up fighting one another. I thought Jordan said he wanted to write a spin-off series about Mat/Tuon after the main series, so I could see him having notes of some kind to explain what happens there. I agree about wanting to see the Hawkwing/Fortuona scene. Can't believe it was left out.
  3. I'm having trouble grasping a lot of the end. The biggest issue I have with this whole book (the only really big glaring issue to me) is Rand's portion of the epilogue. I just can't believe that he can finally live in peace and decides to not tell Nynaeve, Tam, Mat, or Perrin and abandons his children and Min, Elayne, and Aviendha. Now, into what happened with the dark one itself. I agree with the 'world without evil' being a horrible place. Rand explains this by telling the Dark One that he never wins, because only the fight for something you believe in can bring out the best in people. That implies that the best of everybody can't exist without the DO. There would be nothing to fight for, nothing to challenge peace and make people treasure it. So that makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is Rand's line about the Dark One never having been the issue, Alivia's role, the pipe and the finalization of the body swap. Here are two theories from me, both somewhat crazy, I'll admit: 1. Androl and Pevara gave us more insight than we'd think. While they were linked, they entered each others' consciousness. They became ONE PERSON. Pevara's POV says she was able to pull back into her own body afterwards. Is that what Rand and Moridin did, except Rand intentionally pulled back into Moridin's body instead? 2. The DO exists outside the pattern and is a constant force for evil, but isn't necessarily bad. He's like gravity, he's just contantly present. The true source of upsetting balance is the Dragon Reborn himself. LTT inspried many of the Forsaken. He rejected Mieren, he was a source of fixation for Elan, Demandred seems to be completely unhinged by being 'nearly LTT'. Sammael and Bel'al are both known to have been jealous of his power. LTT's Aes Sedai were the ones who drilled into the Bore, craving more power. We see a repeat of this in Rand. Everywhere he goes, he breaks ties, causes war, incites jealousy, brings out both the best AND worst of the people around him. In TGS he goes mad and nearly kills everybody atop Dragonmount, proving he could be either the destroyer or the savior. This could explain why Rand wants the world to go on without the Dragon. He WANTS the dragon to be dead in everybody's mind, because so long as he exists, the threat could come again. The Dragon is the problem and always has been. --------------------- Thoughts? I know it sort of flies in the face of the good vs evil mantra this series seems to hold, but it did occur to me after putting the book down.
  4. Personally, I think RJ chose to kill her off, specifically BECAUSE nobody (or very few people) saw it coming. One of the best parts about this series is that nearly every action is foreshadowed and hinted at well in advance. The only drawback to this is that the people most into the story (people who see theories online and post on these forums) have nothing left to surprise them. A final book to a series this large needed at least one surprise. Looking back, I wonder if this was intentional. Min and Egwene were our two primary 'foreshadowers'. Egwene never saw visions o her own future and Min was kept suspiciously quiet about Egwene. In fact, I'm not sure we ever got any Egwene viewings from Min after book 2 (I could be wrong, been years since a re-read).
  5. Thank you for wording this so eloquently. This series has been carried around in the back of my mind for more than half my life and I'm both saddened and thrilled to see it come to conclusion. I did have issues with the writing in a few areas and there were certainly holes, but inheriting a series with this many characters is no easy task and in some ways, I feel brandon improved upon some characters. **************Spoiler alert for the next paragraph, read at your discretion************* Overall the only BIG issues I had were with the epilogue and the field of merrilor meeting. After following and caring for these characters for over a decade, I'd been hoping for something akin to the Lord of the Rings appendices, with details about how they lived their lives. Since Jordan was intending a spin-off series to cover tuon/mat (I think?), I had been hoping for more 'post-last battle notes'. I also didn't like Rand's ending. The body swap thing was expected, but there was little to no explanation about it or what sort of seal he placed over the DO. I also find it hard to believe he'd rather wander the world alone than be with the women he loves, the children he's abandoning, or letting his father/brothers in arms (mat and perrin) know he survived. I don't know if that's an issue with Jordan's notes not being specific enough, Sanderson's writing choices, or just my own expectations. Regardless, thanks to all involved for this incredible series. I will treasure it always.
  6. I think lopozop nailed it. I don't think Egwene 'died' as people might think. Physically, she's dead, yes, but I got the feeling that she turned herself into a part of the pattern. Balefire works by burning a thread out of the pattern. Depending on the strength, it burns further and further back in time. If this weave was the opposite then it should solidify all of the weaves around it and stabilize the whole tapestry, so to speak. When Egwene 'died', her body seemed to literally transform into crystals, which we'd only previously seen as an object that literally held part of the world together. Didn't she say that the weave wouldn't be as effective (or even kill possibly) one that wasn't dedicated tot eh shadow? How would it have killed her then? To top all of this off, there's Rand hearing her voice in his head shortly afterward. This could be taken literally or figuratively, but considering he was watching the pattern and (in my mind) she BECAME part of the pattern, it makes sense that she could have communicated with him. Regardless, I didn't see her death coming, but it was nice to have a surprise of some kind. If anything I would have liked more important character deaths. I do agree that the FoM scene near the beginning of the book was all over the place though. Really? I feel like RJ had a larger world focus, but BJ does better with characters (though this could be tied to the plot demanding character evolution rather than BS himself). I loved Rand's transformation in TGS. Egwene improved. Perrin certainly became more interesting. The only character I felt died in the transition was Mat.
  7. Is that actually in the books somewhere, or are you just guessing wildly?
  8. I was reading The Great Hunt and I found something interesting. I don't frequent these forums very often, so maybe its been mentioned before, but here it is. Right after Denna captures Egwene: Page 573, The Great Hunt (I editted the bold part) Well, we know Towers of Midnight covers Mat and Perrin (and supposedly Elayne (AND THE UNMASKING OF THE BLACK AJAH AS ASMODEAN'S KILLERS IMO :P had to put it in there)), so how do they factor into a Seanchan legend or place? This leads me to believe Towers of Midnight may actually be partially in Seanchan lands, or perhaps the Aelfinn and Eelfinn are actually from there. What do you guys think?
  9. Min has been taking some sort of concoction that prevents pregnancy. She mentions offering some to Elayne in WH.
  10. I have a bad feeling that every major caharacter will survive. Rand will probably die at some point, but then come back or something (don't really wanna get into my Hinderstap theory here). Perrin has to outlive Bashere to get the Broken Crown.
  11. Personally, I took it to be a simple method of phrasing. We're told over and over again that Aes Sedai can talk their way out of any conversation without promising anything, so that's what I assumed was done. Egwene's quote, which all the other Aes Sedai say, is: "I am no Darkfriend." Mesaana could have simply meant: "I am no [mere] Darkfriend." That's enough in my opinion. I also suspected the double spirit weave, through use of a well so nobody would see the glow of the power around her. We also have to think about what actually makes the Oaths binding. Does the Oath bind you in what you think you're swearing or does it bind you based on the actual words you used? For instance, an AS might think "OOOhh, finally, everybody knows I can't lie" as she swears, so her oath becomes I cannot tell a lie, even though that wasn't the wording of her vow. Mesanna, could simply think of it as, I will only speak true words, in other words, if Darkfriend is an accepted word, she can use it.
  12. Unrelated question...how can Min acurrately predict the bizarre changes the Pattern makes, seemingly last minute, around Ta'veran? Alright, knife in the dark time: I am going to post the real quotes here, if nobody minds (all taken from: http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Min's_viewings): “A man — not him — juggling fire, and the White Tower.” This one is confusing. Is he juggling the White Tower, or is the White Tower seperate from the juggling? I think this is too generic to get pinned down to a single event. The people around Thom are always trying to 'juggle' more factions than they can handle, be it Egwene, Elayne, Rand, or Mat. The White Tower portion is interesting...I suspect Towers of Midnight will shed light on this since we have at least three prominent, plot-defining towers throughout the lands: The White Tower, The Tower of Ghenjei (sp?), and the Black Tower. Note that two of them are related to channeling. “A wolf, and a broken crown, and trees flowering all around Perrin.” Obviously, the first two have happened already. The Broken Crown will be gained when Bashere dies. Trees flowering all around him could mean absolutely anything. It could be the orchard where his parents were killed. It could be some relation to the orchard. It could represent trees in the 'wolf dream'. It could represent meeting the Green Man. It may or may not have already come to pass. “I've read you, Egwene.... I see things I am sure link you to Rand, and Perrin, and Mat, and - yes, even Galad” Again, this may have happened already. Galad is about to become a member of the 'Team of Light' (totally just made that up). Basically, he's about to join all the other main characters asgainst the Shadow. Egwene is part of that same struggle. It could also refer to Galad trying to find Egwene, killing people in Samara because he thinks he may be helping her, and even his taking to the Whitecloaks. “Above Elayne's, a red-hot iron and an axe.” I am guessing the axe means Perrin will meet up with Elayne at some point, bearing Morgase. The red hot iron definitely sounds like torture, and we know Elayne wanted to torture Ispan. Likely she will torture the Black Sisters captured in KoD and prove my theory that they killed Asmodean. (BAM, I went there) “a flaring halo around his head, radiant in gold and blue. It shouted of glory and power to come.” After TG, he will probably replace Taim as the male version of the Amyrlin Seat. M'Hael is the current term. “an image of a raven floating beside her dark hair; more a drawing of the bird than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo, but she did not know its meaning.” We know nothing of this yet, but it seems clear that it is related to the Seanchan somehow. I'm guessing she will become a Seanchan prisoner or ambassador, or something along those lines. For those wondering who she is, she's the White Ajah representative that controlled Salidar along with Sheriam and the others. She is one of the rebel Aes Sedai that swore fealty to Egwene. It is also possible that the raven relates to her being a darkfriend in the future, since Trollocs use raven symbols as well. “A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood, lightning around you, some striking at you, some coming out of you. You and I will meet again.” The beggar's staff and the white hot iron have yet to come true. The beggar's staff has been referenced to many times throughout the series and accentuates the Fisher King theme throughout the books. It is thought that the beggar's staff may relate to Rand's trip through Ebou Dar at the end of the Gathering Storm. The white-hot iron, I believe relates to Elayne. Min had a viewing around Elayne of a bloody hand that belonged to somebody else, which obviously indicates Rand's lost hand. Likewise, Rand now has a vision about Elayne around his head. This one has no direct quote. Min simply tells Rand Perrin has to be there twice, I'm not sure we ever hear her speak the vision aloud. I would assume this is TG. From that same website I mentioned above: "When Rand and Perrin were together, Min saw the same image with the fireflies and shadow, but this time the fireflies were holding their own. This seems to indicate that Rand on his own cannot win Tarmon Gai'don, but with Perrin's help, he stands an even chance." “I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't.” It is possible that ti concerns Rand's epiphany concerning Lews Therin at the end of TGS. I assume this is Moiraine. “It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all.” This one is tough. How can Cadsuane have any effect on so many men at once without reaching the Black Tower? Rand taught himself laughter and tears again and it hardly seems a lesson that every Asha'man can learn. I can only assume she'll help them avoid using Balefire and simply accept that the Forsaken will keep coming back (a real shame). “Aviendha would have Rand's babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd.” Could relate to just about anything. PErsonally I favour the theory that two of them are Elayne's children and they showed up above Aviendha's head because of the sister bond. It is also thought they will be able to channel, or they will be identical, or any number of other possibilities. (Why does nobody in WoT just have one kid?) “And there's something... dark... in the images I saw around Lord Davram.” It could mean darkfriend, but I really hope not. Bashere is one of my favourite secondary characters. It could simply mean a life of battle ahead, or perhaps an execution at the hands of his queen. Here are more that you missed (from the same website): tEotW: The laughing face may or may not have come to pass. Egwene's dream of Mat gambling with a laughing Dark One seems like it may have counted. The eye has been discussed to death and there is currently another thread on it (at least one). So I won't get into that. Perhaps Lan will survive and Nynaeve will have a child? LoC: I'm not sure this will happen in the books, since its pretty unimportant. Some think this is a gai'shain, personally I've always thought Galad fit the bill, especially since he's about to meet up with Perrin. tPoD: Pretty straight forward. I can't see these having a huge impact on the books and the library is most likely not going to happen until after TG. Rand does often talk about leaving something behind though. WH: Relating to Alivia. This also fits in with all the prophecies surrounding Rand dying and living again, his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, etc; I don't wanna get into that here though.
  13. Ahh, we'll see. I still say he fits in there somewhere, I mean, Graendal messed around in Shara and every other nation was controlled by a Forsaken in some way. One of them had to have taken some interest in the Sea Folk. And the Caramoor is the only title Rand has that doesn't demand reverance. He who comes with dawn must be followed. The Dragon Reborn is a legend to stand in awe of. Demandred seems like he would be drawn to the people who think Rand needs to be bargained with... I'm sure you're right Luckers, but he could still be involved with the Sea Folk somehow. I suspect he was somebody at that large Sea Folk meeting that Logain walked in on.
  14. I was talking about this with my friend the other day and I came up with two possibilities: 1) He is in Shara, since it is one of the only places that could have an army on the move that we wouldn't know about. 2) (and this seems the most likely to me) He is a Sea Folk leader. I'm not sure when RJ said we hadn't seen Demandred alternate personality, but I believe him to be the Mistress of the Ships. For several reasons. a) We know that one day the Cairhein Wavemistress will take the position, so the one currently in power has to be dethroned at some point. b) Having Demandred as a woman would be the perfect cover. c) Demandred tells Moridin that his army is assembled and ready to move just as the SEa Folk are preparing to set out to bring grain to Arad Doman's capital (can't remember the name of that place). d) Sammael's 'south' comment fits.
  15. Interesting, I was thinking of making a list like this for myself as well. You could elaborate a bit more though. Saying 'man juggling fire' doesn't help me much without some context. Who was the image over, when did it appear, where was the person situated when it appeared? I can't remember when alot of these show up, and I'm sure most of them only appear after a critical decision has been made, similar to Mat's dice rolling in his head. But you're missing one. Min also sees Rand with a Beggar's staff and something else, which ties in well to one of Perrin's visions (why did he stop having those anyway)? As for Aviendha's babies, it has been theorized that two will be Elayne's and two will be Aviendha's, but they both showed up over Avi's head because of the sister bond.
  16. Shadowspawn cannot pass through Gateways, so we can assume the Gholam cannot follow Mat through any portals into Finnland. The Tower of Ghenjei isn't as obvious a gateway as Travelling or the twisted doorframes, but I have a feeling Shadowspawn still can't enter.
  17. I thought the book had been out long enough at this point...my apologies. I will post it there.
  18. Sorry! I thought Gathering Storm had been around long enough for spoilers to get posted. My bad. I edited the offending sentences.
  19. Who else does he have to turn to? Ishamael is the only Chosen crazy enough to use the True Power. By doing so, Ishy/Moridin has made himself addicted to the DO himself. All the others could try to repent. All the others have ulterior motives. Ishy does not. He has no choice but to ensure the DO and by association, the True Power last forever. Who could he trust more than that? Besides, every Forsaken has failed miserably time and time again. Belthamel - Got completely destroyed by a tree-human thing. Infiltrates Egwene's rebel camp, gets caught, kills a handful of Aes Sedai and flees with his tail between his legs. Aginor - Burns himself out or dies to Rand before he even knows how to channel (exactly how he died is unsure, but either way is pathetic for a Forsaken). Then fails to kill Rand as Dashiva and dies to a fellow darkfriend at the cleansing of the source. Also created Trollocs and Gholam, way back when...both turned out badly. Graednal - Honestly...throughout the entire series she's pretty quiet. She failed in her coup with Sammael, Lanfear and Rahvin. Rahvin - Failed miserably at securing his kingdom and messed up the plan to kill Rand created by Lanfear, Graendal and Sammael. Sammael - Dies to Mashadar...because he failed to look up... Moghedien - Got herself captured, accomplished little, and gave away secrets from the Age of Legends. Now a soul-trapped lackey. Lanfear - Dies to a measly little present-day Aes Sedai and got herself stilled. Allowed her hatred of Lews Therin and her jealousy to cloud her judgement. Mesaana - Has been doing good work, but failed to show up for the ccleansing of Saidin. HThe status of her dreadlords is currently unknown. And so on...
  20. Egwene, Egwene, Egwene. She was one of my least favourite characters up until Knife of Dreams. In KoD and TGS she was an awesome character.
  21. **Post has been recreated on Gathering Storm Forums**
  22. I admit I only skimmed through about half of it, but I agree with you in some respects. I don't believe development of characters went 'sideways' as you put it. It's more just a shift in focus from adventure novel to political, which dies off from book 9-12 (granted I haven't read TGS yet). I could find a hundred million little things to nitpick at regarding this series, but on the whole, it is my favourite fantasy series out there, simply because of its complexity, depth, and the system of magic RJ has established. The wealth of characters do alot for the world as well. I'm finding that the older I get, the more I appreciate these books in their complexity.
  23. Still though. Shouldn't that viewing be brought to Rand's attention? It either tells him that he will live on after TG or TG can't happen till Avi is pregnant. One or the other.
  24. Does this bother anybody else? Every time I read through Winter's Heart, this jumps out at me. Min's viewing concerning Aviendha's children is hugely important, but she doesn't tell Rand about it. Why is it so important exactly? Well, so long as Rand and Avi keep themselves from doing the deed again, Rand can't die. Or quite possibly, TG simply can't happen. Aviendha HAS to become pregnant with Rand's children before he dies, or so Min's viewing predicts. Is Min really too stupid to see the significance of that? She seems like one smart cookie to me... Side Note: Theoretically, since Balefire alters the pattern, couldn't it prevent one of Min's viewings from coming to pass?
  25. So...I'm currently on PoD in my latest reread and I just thought of something strange. Herid Fel dies in Cairhien the Epilogue of Lords of Chaos, right? But the Gholam also ends up attacking Elayne, Nyn, Mat, and co. at the end of Crown of Swords in Ebou Dar. So how did the Gholam get from Cairhien to Ebou Dar in so short a time? Is there more than one, or can they Travel (or do they have a travelling equivalent). I thought Sammael may be responsible for Travelling the Gholam, but Jordan lets us know that the Forsaken fear Gholams. Besides, if the One Power can't affect Gholams how could Sammael have made a Gateway for it?
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