Egwene's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[lilltempest]

 

"The Aes Sedai were planning an elaborate memorial for Egwene; Tam preferred a quiet affair for his son"

 

Where  I can find this ???? 

 

In the epilogue. And it reflects the two of them quite well - a nice, quiet funeral for Rand with no huge fuss, and a huge elaborate worshipfest for Egwene.

[Kudlak]

Damn I was blind must look again (make fool from yourself ups )   thx for info :-)

 

Yeah Iam idiot ..sad  :-( 

Edited January 14, 2013 by Kudlak

[Suttree]

That whole sequence is rather poorly constructed but I think that a blanket allegation of 'troll-ness' for citing it is a little overdone.

 

There is a looooong history there, it was not thrown out lightly for this one example. Even from earier for example we have absurd hyperbole and that is just the tip of the iceberg going back years:

 

Egwene had no half of the puzzle,she knew nothing about sealing the DO or about fighting the last battle.Village girl stays village girl till the end.

&

 

The lovely part now that I think about it was the ultimate woman supremacy organization the Aes Sedai was forced to fight under a MAN.They thought of themselves as the ultimate users of the OP,got blasted early on by trained channelers Stumbled along throughout the book taking heavy losses.Could not defeat Tiam without a sucidal move.The great mother Egwene dead and NO more the most important group in Randland.Thank you Sanderson!!

So as you can see there is a concerted effort to twist what really happened. Egwene is not a favorite character for most of us, but this just goes way overboard.

[orient]

Hi,

 

Just signed in here because I felt I had to reply.

 

Like many of you Egwene's one of my favourite characters in the series, and like many of you I thought the death was well-written but didn't make sense. To be honest, Gawyn's death struck me as the release from the only thing holding her back from becoming the living personification of the Amyrlin Seat - a woman who cannot and should not have any worldly ties. Letting her make the ultimate sacrifice was good, but letting her mourn and continue the Aes Sedai legacy would have been poignant in a different way.

 

I know this is Egwene's thread, but since Gawyn's been mentioned above, I also should point out - when Demandred wasn't being distracted by Gawyn and Galad, he was decimating troops like nobody's business. Sure, his decision to go challenge him was boneheaded, but he probably saved thousands of lives out there in the minutes that he was duelling Demandred. It wasn't entirely the worthless sacrifice that people seem to think it was.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Let's steer clear of commenting on the poster - whatever history there is. 

 

Lets keep to what has been posted in the topic. 

[mbuehner]

Not knowing where else to fit this but:

 

GAWYN IS NOT A MORON.

 

There.  I said it.  I never particularly liked his character, but after a number of missteps he made a couple key saves, namely:

 

- Egwene's 3 assassins, enabling Egwene to 'tard a forsaken and participate in the LB

- Egwene after Sharan attack.  Leilwin was important but without Gawyn, Egwene didn't stand a chance

 

While his character gets a lot of flak for the decision, his notion to go after Demandred alone wasn't that stupid.  He had no way of knowing Demandred was the best swordsman in 3000 years, while Gawyn had ample combat evidence that he was probably one of the best swordsmen in the world, and Gawyn wore Seanchan rings so potent most Seanchan thought death from a ring-wearer is a forgone conclusion.

 

Later, Mat validates Gawyns strategy by essentially sending two other swordsmen on the exact same mission.  Third time's a charm, I guess.

Mat sent Galad to kill channellers in general, not to try to storm a forsakens headquarters and hope he'd agree to engage him in a duel. The only reason Demmy would agree to such a thing is if he felt he had no chance of losing, which proved true. A more realistic expectation should have been 500 guards overpowering Galad and Gawyn both while 50 channelers dropped boulders on their heads. And Galad was performing a much more useful function assassinating channelers than distracting Demmy for 5 minutes in a days long battle. Same for Gawyn, who in fact could have distributed those rings to others.

 

And Mat didnt send Lan on that suicide mission, that was Al Lan, Al The Time.

[Kudlak]

 

Not knowing where else to fit this but:

 

GAWYN IS NOT A MORON.

 

There.  I said it.  I never particularly liked his character, but after a number of missteps he made a couple key saves, namely:

 

- Egwene's 3 assassins, enabling Egwene to 'tard a forsaken and participate in the LB

- Egwene after Sharan attack.  Leilwin was important but without Gawyn, Egwene didn't stand a chance

 

While his character gets a lot of flak for the decision, his notion to go after Demandred alone wasn't that stupid.  He had no way of knowing Demandred was the best swordsman in 3000 years, while Gawyn had ample combat evidence that he was probably one of the best swordsmen in the world, and Gawyn wore Seanchan rings so potent most Seanchan thought death from a ring-wearer is a forgone conclusion.

 

Later, Mat validates Gawyns strategy by essentially sending two other swordsmen on the exact same mission.  Third time's a charm, I guess.

Mat sent Galad to kill channellers in general, not to try to storm a forsakens headquarters and hope he'd agree to engage him in a duel. The only reason Demmy would agree to such a thing is if he felt he had no chance of losing, which proved true. A more realistic expectation should have been 500 guards overpowering Galad and Gawyn both while 50 channelers dropped boulders on their heads. And Galad was performing a much more useful function assassinating channelers than distracting Demmy for 5 minutes in a days long battle. Same for Gawyn, who in fact could have distributed those rings to others.

 

And Mat didnt send Lan on that suicide mission, that was Al Lan, Al The Time.

Agree + as I wrote before Gawyn must know that his death will affect Egwen in negative way !!!!! That is my problem with this storyline others I can understand but this can't wrap in my head :/ :-(

[simian23]

 

 

Not knowing where else to fit this but:

 

GAWYN IS NOT A MORON.

 

There.  I said it.  I never particularly liked his character, but after a number of missteps he made a couple key saves, namely:

 

- Egwene's 3 assassins, enabling Egwene to 'tard a forsaken and participate in the LB

- Egwene after Sharan attack.  Leilwin was important but without Gawyn, Egwene didn't stand a chance

 

While his character gets a lot of flak for the decision, his notion to go after Demandred alone wasn't that stupid.  He had no way of knowing Demandred was the best swordsman in 3000 years, while Gawyn had ample combat evidence that he was probably one of the best swordsmen in the world, and Gawyn wore Seanchan rings so potent most Seanchan thought death from a ring-wearer is a forgone conclusion.

 

Later, Mat validates Gawyns strategy by essentially sending two other swordsmen on the exact same mission.  Third time's a charm, I guess.

Mat sent Galad to kill channellers in general, not to try to storm a forsakens headquarters and hope he'd agree to engage him in a duel. The only reason Demmy would agree to such a thing is if he felt he had no chance of losing, which proved true. A more realistic expectation should have been 500 guards overpowering Galad and Gawyn both while 50 channelers dropped boulders on their heads. And Galad was performing a much more useful function assassinating channelers than distracting Demmy for 5 minutes in a days long battle. Same for Gawyn, who in fact could have distributed those rings to others.

 

And Mat didnt send Lan on that suicide mission, that was Al Lan, Al The Time.

Agree + as I wrote before Gawyn must know that his death will affect Egwen in negative way !!!!! That is my problem with this storyline others I can understand but this can't wrap in my head :/ :-(

 

Nynaeve is bonded to Lan, and she is one of only two Aes Sedai supporting Rand.  Of those two, she is the only one with much strength in the OP.  So Lan's death would have affected Nynaeve in a negative way too, but he went after Demandred anyway.

[Agitel]

 

 

 

 

 

Egwene is the worst character from the series. From her selfishness to her insistence on the seals not being broken then to be broken by her(?) to wanting Saiden to be tainted again(that would be convinent for her eh?) to wanting the white tower to have leadership of the light's forces. Her ending was also cr@p. Thankfully she died while Tuon lives.

Seriously what is wrong with you xxx? Your are either trolling or have no concept of what you are reading. She didn't actually want Saidin to be tainted, Moiriane told her she needed to break the seals and her death helped heal the pattern itself. Her ending was well done, even people who dislike her have been claiming that.

 

Lastly contrary to what you have so shrilly claimed over and over we now see the direct balance between Dragon/Amyrlin and how they both have a connection to the land. Balance is the main theme of the books and it was highlighted in this instance.

 

There is no connection between Egwene and the land like what Rand has.Did the grass grow green around her? Did sunlight show where she walked?.The Dragon is a special soul.Egwene is not.She is not even a hero of the horn.Taking some of Egwene's own observations when she held Saider and connecting it to what Rand does with his very presence(not the OP) is quite a stretch.

 

She did not want Saiden tainted? She suggested Rand do the same thing he did in the last age and then said we are prepared to handle tainted Saiden this time.What book are you reading?

 

 It was brought up and then quickly dissmissed. She did not seriously "want saidin to be tainted again" as you claim above.

 

Further the connection the land is made clear and then hammered home even more so with her healing the pattern with her death.

 

That whole sequence is rather poorly constructed but I think that a blanket allegation of 'troll-ness' for citing it is a little overdone.

 

She is obtuse and stubborn about breaking the seals

 

She was right about the seals in the end. Breaking them at (or just after) Merrilor would have been a disaster.

[Kudlak]

 

 

 

Not knowing where else to fit this but:

 

GAWYN IS NOT A MORON.

 

There.  I said it.  I never particularly liked his character, but after a number of missteps he made a couple key saves, namely:

 

- Egwene's 3 assassins, enabling Egwene to 'tard a forsaken and participate in the LB

- Egwene after Sharan attack.  Leilwin was important but without Gawyn, Egwene didn't stand a chance

 

While his character gets a lot of flak for the decision, his notion to go after Demandred alone wasn't that stupid.  He had no way of knowing Demandred was the best swordsman in 3000 years, while Gawyn had ample combat evidence that he was probably one of the best swordsmen in the world, and Gawyn wore Seanchan rings so potent most Seanchan thought death from a ring-wearer is a forgone conclusion.

 

Later, Mat validates Gawyns strategy by essentially sending two other swordsmen on the exact same mission.  Third time's a charm, I guess.

Mat sent Galad to kill channellers in general, not to try to storm a forsakens headquarters and hope he'd agree to engage him in a duel. The only reason Demmy would agree to such a thing is if he felt he had no chance of losing, which proved true. A more realistic expectation should have been 500 guards overpowering Galad and Gawyn both while 50 channelers dropped boulders on their heads. And Galad was performing a much more useful function assassinating channelers than distracting Demmy for 5 minutes in a days long battle. Same for Gawyn, who in fact could have distributed those rings to others.

 

And Mat didnt send Lan on that suicide mission, that was Al Lan, Al The Time.

Agree + as I wrote before Gawyn must know that his death will affect Egwen in negative way !!!!! That is my problem with this storyline others I can understand but this can't wrap in my head :/ :-(

 

Nynaeve is bonded to Lan, and she is one of only two Aes Sedai supporting Rand.  Of those two, she is the only one with much strength in the OP.  So Lan's death would have affected Nynaeve in a negative way too, but he went after Demandred anyway.

 

Yeah you are right but I can imagine better storyline  (I think I can :-) For example Gawyn finds rings AND show them Egwen. She asked Leilwin Shipless what they can do and after explanation, she forbids their usage.... volala we have Last Battle. Demandred is kills everyone and now Gawyn goes Egwen and explain his plan to use rings for  Demandred assassination... now we got some heroic and others speaking and in the end Gawyn explain that everyone  sacrifices something and so on... Egwen accepts his plan ...Gawyn try  and is killed ...she got mental collapse but knowledge that the Gawyn  sacrifice yourself for mankind help her and she got back and she is able to sacrifices yourself ...

 

something like this in better english ofc :-D 

[Rhienne]

 

Nynaeve is bonded to Lan, and she is one of only two Aes Sedai supporting Rand.  Of those two, she is the only one with much strength in the OP.  So Lan's death would have affected Nynaeve in a negative way too, but he went after Demandred anyway.

I did think about this when I was reading it. I can't make up my mind whether Gawyn and Lan were both right in trying to take down Demandred as everyone was making sacrifices and why shouldn't they be exempt? To be fair to Gawyn (while I think he has been an idiot for pretty much the entire series), he would have been a hero if he had been the one to take down Demandred rather than Lan.

 

On the other hand, they are bonded to people who have very important roles in the last battle, perhaps Nynaeve even moreso than Egwene as she was linked to Rand. Seems like it would be pretty important to avoid at all costs anything that would disrupt Rand's battle. But then again, Aviendha was in direct line of fire, and Elayne almost as much. Which seems particularly foolhardy when you realise that Alanna's death would have been sufficient to drive Rand into a warder rage.

[Kudlak]

 

 

Nynaeve is bonded to Lan, and she is one of only two Aes Sedai supporting Rand.  Of those two, she is the only one with much strength in the OP.  So Lan's death would have affected Nynaeve in a negative way too, but he went after Demandred anyway.

I did think about this when I was reading it. I can't make up my mind whether Gawyn and Lan were both right in trying to take down Demandred as everyone was making sacrifices and why shouldn't they be exempt? To be fair to Gawyn (while I think he has been an idiot for pretty much the entire series), he would have been a hero if he had been the one to take down Demandred rather than Lan.

 

On the other hand, they are bonded to people who have very important roles in the last battle, perhaps Nynaeve even moreso than Egwene as she was linked to Rand. Seems like it would be pretty important to avoid at all costs anything that would disrupt Rand's battle. But then again, Aviendha was in direct line of fire, and Elayne almost as much. Which seems particularly foolhardy when you realise that Alanna's death would have been sufficient to drive Rand into a warder rage.

For me there is problem that Rand and girls and Lan+Nynaeve all knew about the dangers to witch they are facing but in cause of Egwene and Gawyn, Egwene didnt know anything about his plans. as I wrote before I accept how they ended but I cant somewhat take how BS and team got there into these situations.. That why I registred there in hope that somebody will help me to accept BS solution :-)

[meeker]

there is no foreshadowing of egwene's death at all in this series. not even once.

 

That is just not true.  All the talk about her being the longest reigning Amyrlin ever was pretty obvious foreshadowing.  She topped my shortlist of characters I thought would die.  To be fair though, I had Rand up there with her.

[mbuehner]

 

there is no foreshadowing of egwene's death at all in this series. not even once.

 

That is just not true.  All the talk about her being the longest reigning Amyrlin ever was pretty obvious foreshadowing.  She topped my shortlist of characters I thought would die.  To be fair though, I had Rand up there with her.

 

There's a min vision of her getting her neck broken, not sure how much more explicit a possibility you could ask for.

[lilltempest]

 

 

there is no foreshadowing of egwene's death at all in this series. not even once.

 

That is just not true.  All the talk about her being the longest reigning Amyrlin ever was pretty obvious foreshadowing.  She topped my shortlist of characters I thought would die.  To be fair though, I had Rand up there with her.

 

There's a min vision of her getting her neck broken, not sure how much more explicit a possibility you could ask for.

Amusingly enough, if Gawyn had chosen to break her neck instead of enslaving himself to her, he'd probably be alive now.

[Byzantine279]

Ironically, also, the world they got married was the path in which they died.  Shame Min didn't know that bit to warn them.

[Kudlak]

Ironically, also, the world they got married was the path in which they died.  Shame Min didn't know that bit to warn them.

 

Well for this see this topic http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78442-reportdiscuss-q-and-a-and-interview-spoilers-here-full-spoilers/page-3

[Hack n Slash]

I was just thinking about it, and for their to be any chance at war not breaking out almost immediately after The Last Battle, Egwene had to die. Remember this conversation?

 

 

"I will break you myself," Fortuona said softly. "Someday, your people will turn you over to me. You will forget yourself, and your arrogance will lead you to our borders. I will be waiting."

 

"I plan to live centuries," Egwene hissed. "I will watch your empire crumble, Fortuona. I will watch it with joy."

 

There's no way Egwene would wait long enough for Seanchan society to change peacefully, after her experiences she would have attacked them as soon as possible, probably leading to a future similar to the one Avi witnesses in her visions at Rhuidean the second time.

[Yamezt]

 

I was just thinking about it, and for their to be any chance at war not breaking out almost immediately after The Last Battle, Egwene had to die. Remember this conversation?

 

 

"I will break you myself," Fortuona said softly. "Someday, your people will turn you over to me. You will forget yourself, and your arrogance will lead you to our borders. I will be waiting."

 

"I plan to live centuries," Egwene hissed. "I will watch your empire crumble, Fortuona. I will watch it with joy."

 

There's no way Egwene would wait long enough for Seanchan society to change peacefully, after her experiences she would have attacked them as soon as possible, probably leading to a future similar to the one Avi witnesses in her visions at Rhuidean the second time.

Presumably the Dragon's Peace is signed by the Aes Sedai. That included the Seanchan, and they can't go to war for 100 years.

[tonne]

Meh, I've always LOVED Egwene for some reason and she really grew in TgS and ToM. This book was just disappointing. Her death was -ok- She wiped out every sharan channeler, but Gawyns death was horrid. All in all I'm left disappointed.

[Rhienne]

The one bit of Egwene's arc which I really liked was her little conversation with Rand just after she'd died.  It somehow seemed like the old Egwene, rather than the ice-cold, inhuman Amyrlin.  I was really glad to see this.

[Hack n Slash]

The one bit of Egwene's arc which I really liked was her little conversation with Rand just after she'd died.  It somehow seemed like the old Egwene, rather than the ice-cold, inhuman Amyrlin.  I was really glad to see this.

 

Egwene isn't cold at all, she's just strong. I could see plenty of reasons to dislike her character, but I can't imagine how you could call her cold.

[Rhienne]

I think she certainly comes off across as cold compared to the other characters.  She sees herself as the Amyrlin, an icon or a symbol rather than a person.  Of all the main characters she deliberately distances herself from friends.  Its part of her strength in that she has a real belief that as the Amyrlin she is superior to other Aes Sedai and other humans, but also gives her a real lack of humanity.

 

Edit: I don't dislike her character.  I liked her in the early books, and felt nothing strong towards her by the middle of the series.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Rhienne

[Jutzel]

I thought this was a good ending for Egwene. I mean her warder did die. Everything we know about the Warder bond implies Egwene will have long-term effects from this. I get that it's Egwene and she's very strong-willed and all that, but this isn't your normal warder either. It's her husband/soul-mate. She'd be devastated. I guess what I'm saying is: everyone likes to remember Muhammed Ali as the champ, standing over a KO-d Sunny Liston with his fist in the air. No one like to think of Ali as a 60-year old with shaking hands, a trembling lip, and quivering head; body broken from the hardships his life has seen. And frankly, Egwene deserves to go out as a champ. If she's going to die, there couldn't have been a better way to go.

And when Sanderson wrote that part, a paragraph that describes what she was doing and then just one line: "The Flame of Tar Valon", I stood up and yelled. It was awesome!

 

[Jutzel]

Also, I thought Egwene was an appropriate main character to die for 2 reasons. Both have to do with perception within the WoT world.

1. Many still view Aes Sedai as "witches/evil/etc". For the Ash'aman, there is redemption in this perception for them in AMOL (end part with Logain). Egwene's sacrifice symbolizes that redemption in perception as well (for the White Tower). The story of her sacrifice would change perception of the Aes Sedai throughout the world.

2. again with perception here, but everyone (except for 4 people) think Rand is dead! if the dragon fang and true head of the black tower sacrificed himself to save the people, it is fitting that the Flame of Tar Valon and head of the White Tower did the same. This is the whole point of the balance throughout these stories and the yin-yang dynamic. While those of us reading the full narrative (and Min, Elayne, Aviendha, and Cadsuane) may see it a bit differently, the perception for everyone else is the balance of the pattern.