Egwene's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[clu7ch]

Plus the mystery scepter probably had a buffer, which Vora's wand didn't, so you have Egwene's already massive capacity + an unlimited draw. 

[Sabio]

Plus the mystery scepter probably had a buffer, which Vora's wand didn't, so you have Egwene's already massive capacity + an unlimited draw. 

That mace was suppose to be just a little less powerful then the statue Rand melted. 

[Morsker]

 

Plus the mystery scepter probably had a buffer, which Vora's wand didn't, so you have Egwene's already massive capacity + an unlimited draw. 

That mace was suppose to be just a little less powerful then the statue Rand melted. 

 

Logain sensed more power from Rand at Shayol Ghul than at the Cleansing. So overdrawing must be pretty insanely overpowered, even if Rand was overdrawing through Callandor, but I don't think he was using that even.

[TNine]

 

 

Plus the mystery scepter probably had a buffer, which Vora's wand didn't, so you have Egwene's already massive capacity + an unlimited draw. 

That mace was suppose to be just a little less powerful then the statue Rand melted. 

 

 

 

The Cholean Kal? I think it's the second most powerful sa'angreal beside the Cholan Kal, but i'm pretty sure they are on completely different levels. The CK had enough power to drill through the pattern itself.

 

I've always had the belief that Power levels were exponential in growth. Egwene and Elayne are some of the strongest in the tower, but they note time and time again that they are nowhere close to Nynaeve--not just weaker by a few steps, but to the point where adding their power to Nynaeve's is negligible.

[Niel an' Tyomn]

Egwene is the absolute worst character they could have chosen to kill off. We spent so much time watching her train to become an Aes Sedai, a Wise One, rise to power as the youngest Amyrlin ever, settle the division in the White Tower, initiate a number of much-needed reforms, eradicate the Black Ajah, confront the Seanchan empress, was promised to be the longest-reigning and most powerful Amyrlin in history - and she's the only one who is first deprived of her loved one, and then of her life? Was this really a way of saying "even the most May Suish character can die in this series"? Even Rand got to remain alive, by predictably taking over Moridin's body. Nobody else out of the first and second-tier characters died, so what gives? I just don't see what Egwene's death was supposed to accomplish, especially considering that her replacement Cadsuane will likely die of old age very soon. It's the least of the problems that this awful, awful volume suffers from, but it is the most baffling one. Feels like it was picked completely at random, or based on fan hatred.

 

This is the truth. This is why I am such a strong supporter of Egwene but her death was pointless. I think that BS wanted to kill off some of the 2 Rivers crew for emphasis but this was stupid. Maybe Perrin and Faile dying together or Mat saving Olver death OR SOMETHING!  But although I thought the book was good, I just didn't want to see her go... At the least she should've been burnt out and then she comes back still Amyrlin or something ... 

[Kudlak]

 

Egwene is the absolute worst character they could have chosen to kill off. We spent so much time watching her train to become an Aes Sedai, a Wise One, rise to power as the youngest Amyrlin ever, settle the division in the White Tower, initiate a number of much-needed reforms, eradicate the Black Ajah, confront the Seanchan empress, was promised to be the longest-reigning and most powerful Amyrlin in history - and she's the only one who is first deprived of her loved one, and then of her life? Was this really a way of saying "even the most May Suish character can die in this series"? Even Rand got to remain alive, by predictably taking over Moridin's body. Nobody else out of the first and second-tier characters died, so what gives? I just don't see what Egwene's death was supposed to accomplish, especially considering that her replacement Cadsuane will likely die of old age very soon. It's the least of the problems that this awful, awful volume suffers from, but it is the most baffling one. Feels like it was picked completely at random, or based on fan hatred.

 

This is the truth. This is why I am such a strong supporter of Egwene but her death was pointless. I think that BS wanted to kill off some of the 2 Rivers crew for emphasis but this was stupid. Maybe Perrin and Faile dying together or Mat saving Olver death OR SOMETHING!  But although I thought the book was good, I just didn't want to see her go... At the least she should've been burnt out and then she comes back still Amyrlin or something .

Yeah that's my exactly opinion on this issue, but now at last I can accept her death.

 

But one of my last question (just kidding:-) Why Egwen didn't use warden bond to find Gawyn sooner ???? Why, until he was dying, she wasnt able to pin point his position ?? For now, this issue with warden bond is big WTF for me...

 

This: NS,Epilogue - An Aes Sedai can draw on her Warder's strength at need. She can find him however far away he is. (from http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/)

Edited January 16, 2013 by Kudlak

[balefireruinssteaks]

I think we forget, too, that Egwene is the Amyrlin Seat, leading all the Aes Sedai and working with the leaders of the nations of the world in the Last Battle...at 22-23 years old.  She is a skilled politician, sure, and she's had training with the Wise Ones and Aes Sedai but it struck me that most novices and Accepted spend about 15 years learning weaves, history, etc. while Egwene soared past those positions (novice and Accepted) in little more than 2-3 years.  It was interesting to me that Aviendha said "how can Aes Sedai rank themselves by strength in the Power, something you're born with, instead of the wisdom that years bring a person" (paraphrase). 

 

Egwene was carrying her portion of the weight of the world on her shoulders and she had barely lived any life, really.  She didn't have Cadsuane's 300 years or Sorilea's 3 centuries...Reanne's 400 years or what's her name's 600 years of experience and life to draw from.  So I think she did pretty well with what she had.  I thought she was going to survive, myself, because of all the "longest reigning Amyrlin" and all the fuss they made about setting up an Amyrlin of strength, etc.  It did seem a little sad to me that she had to die.

[Ruth]

Egwene' death made sense to me and she used it to take out Taim and a massive amount of channelers so it was very impactful. She also counseled Rand at a critical point and helped him make the needed change in his thinking about the DO.

I never understood what she saw in Gawyn. I always kind of felt sorry for him as he was always second best as he stated at the end and he allowed that to shape so many of his ill fated actions. What did she see in him, a pretty face, a man who had major problems accepting that he had to trust her to make the decisions? He kept trying to dominate her. He did save her life and he did love her but he was weak and he weakened her. I knew when he did not tell her about the rings that it would lead to something very painful for Egwene but I didn't think it would contribute to her death. I tend to believe that RJ slotted her for death in the end. There is too much foreshadowing and he drew her character so that many, many readers found her hard to like. I liked that BS made her more likeable. I think the white tower will do better because of her actions regardless of who leads.

[Kudlak]

Egwene' death made sense to me and she used it to take out Taim and a massive amount of channelers so it was very impactful. She also counseled Rand at a critical point and helped him make the needed change in his thinking about the DO.

I never understood what she saw in Gawyn. I always kind of felt sorry for him as he was always second best as he stated at the end and he allowed that to shape so many of his ill fated actions. What did she see in him, a pretty face, a man who had major problems accepting that he had to trust her to make the decisions? He kept trying to dominate her. He did save her life and he did love her but he was weak and he weakened her. I knew when he did not tell her about the rings that it would lead to something very painful for Egwene but I didn't think it would contribute to her death. I tend to believe that RJ slotted her for death in the end. There is too much foreshadowing and he drew her character so that many, many readers found her hard to like. I liked that BS made her more likeable. I think the white tower will do better because of her actions regardless of who leads.

Now I dont have problem with her death, but how BS got there. I think in this storyline are logical holes and these holes are way too big for my liking ...and ofc thx for your opinion :-)

[papertiger]

I agree, Apostle. Egwene's death mirrored Lews Therin's, but instead of capping a failure and subsequent descent into internal and external destruction with Dragonmount and oblivion, she managed to find a way to create with the One Power.

 

It's a nice reflection. I just wished that weave could have been further used; Egwene's contribution to the sealing of the Bore.

[Kudlak]

I agree, Apostle. Egwene's death mirrored Lews Therin's, but instead of capping a failure and subsequent descent into internal and external destruction with Dragonmount and oblivion, she managed to find a way to create with the One Power.

 

It's a nice reflection. I just wished that weave could have been further used; Egwene's contribution to the sealing of the Bore.

Or it was combination of both in the end ???

[BFG]

 

 

 

 

 

Egwene is the absolute worst character they could have chosen to kill off. We spent so much time watching her train to become an Aes Sedai, a Wise One, rise to power as the youngest Amyrlin ever, settle the division in the White Tower, initiate a number of much-needed reforms, eradicate the Black Ajah, confront the Seanchan empress, was promised to be the longest-reigning and most powerful Amyrlin in history - and she's the only one who is first deprived of her loved one, and then of her life? Was this really a way of saying "even the most May Suish character can die in this series"? Even Rand got to remain alive, by predictably taking over Moridin's body. Nobody else out of the first and second-tier characters died, so what gives? I just don't see what Egwene's death was supposed to accomplish, especially considering that her replacement Cadsuane will likely die of old age very soon. It's the least of the problems that this awful, awful volume suffers from, but it is the most baffling one. Feels like it was picked completely at random, or based on fan hatred.

 

This is the truth. This is why I am such a strong supporter of Egwene but her death was pointless. I think that BS wanted to kill off some of the 2 Rivers crew for emphasis but this was stupid. Maybe Perrin and Faile dying together or Mat saving Olver death OR SOMETHING!  But although I thought the book was good, I just didn't want to see her go... At the least she should've been burnt out and then she comes back still Amyrlin or something .

Yeah that's my exactly opinion on this issue, but now at last I can accept her death.

 

But one of my last question (just kidding:-) Why Egwen didn't use warden bond to find Gawyn sooner ???? Why, until he was dying, she wasnt able to pin point his position ?? For now, this issue with warden bond is big WTF for me...

 

This: NS,Epilogue - An Aes Sedai can draw on her Warder's strength at need. She can find him however far away he is. (from http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/)

The evidence in the books suggest that an AS can tell the direction that their warder is in and vice versa, but not a precise distance - obviously they can tell the difference between close and far away. To begin with Elaynes section is between Eg and Gawyn so she assumes he's gone to either check in on her or help her out, it's not until Eg moves somewhere else that she realises that he's on the Heights.

[papertiger]

It's definitely more tragic if it's a combination of both; one of the best things about Egwene is that she absolutely refuses to give up, to use balefire, to submit to defeat. This trait is what helped her persevere through her captivity with the Seanchan, the BA in Tear, the Tower Aes Sedai, and her training with the Wise Ones. I just wish she didn't always have to contradict Rand just to contradict him.

 

Also, the Warder bond should have allowed her to easily locate Gawyn. Perhaps the rings dulled the sense? 

[papertiger]

It's also kind of weird that she had NO IDEA that Gawyn was using a life-draining artifact of the One Power.

 

Just as weird as Siuan having NO IDEA that her Warder was being Compelled.

[balefireruinssteaks]

After learning that the ter'angreal rings drained a person's life...I can't imagine what possessed Gawyn not to get rid of them.  Even Demandred was like "you dumbass...Night's Shade will end up killing you!" which basically told me that it's a weave that Demandred would never use himself.

 

I thought it was really irresponsible of Gawyn to put on the rings and just run off like that.  And it was really foolish of Egwene to just misplace her Warder like that, too.  "Oh, where's Gawyn...oh he's dying...why didn't I notice that before?"

[papertiger]

Yeah, I understand that Egwene's exhausted with the war effort but you would think she would keep better tabs on the man she loved and bonded. I keep thinking of the scene in Shayol Ghul where Aviendha feels Rand's determination and reflects that he's grown into a true warrior. Where was that with Egwene?

 

Still, Egwene being so self-absorbed that she doesn't bother to think of anyone else isn't that surprising. In her defense, Gawyn is eminently forgettable.

[fionwe1987]

 

On the balance thing...no, I don't buy it either. Egwene is not the Dragon's equal. Her actions did not bring "balance" to the world. All she did was provide a temporary bandaid over the damage caused by the balefire. There's no way in hell she's as important, or as connected to the land, as Rand. In fact, I don't see her as being any more connected to the land than any other channeler. She just happened to be in the right place at the right time because she was too egocentric to let someone else take the sa'angreal and face Taim. In the end, her "I have to do it all because no one is as awesome as me!" attitude led her to her death, one which she embraced fully once she realized she had burned herself out from channeling too much (something that should've been obvious to everyone around her given how she was constantly channeling and doing it all herself).

 

 

My biggest issue with the idea of Egwene being the balancer of Rand, is that I've envisioned the 'balance' in the series as being more a see saw, with the forces of the Shadow on one side, the forces of the Light on the other, and the Dragon acting as the fulcrum in the middle.  It is after all his choice to agree or disagree with the Dark One that is the real heart of the Last Battle.   The shadow's force could defeat the Light armies everywhere and he could still decide to keep fighting.  The light's force could defeat the Shadow's armies everywhere and he could still decide to accept oblivion. 

You're making the assumption that only one kind of balance can exist. But lets be clear... Egwene mirrors Rand. She's his balance, the saidar to his saidin... All this may be true, but Egwene was neither ta'veren nor a major part of the Prophesies. Nor was Rand's other "balance", Nynaeve. There's a reason for that. While Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne contribute as much as Mat and Perrin, they're not destroyers of the old order. Women have had disproportional influence on the Pattern for 3000 years. The balance for that is an enormously powerful (I don't mean OP strength) man, Rand. The Pattern of Egwene's life closely matches Rand's, and they're tied together. As Egwene saw in her Accepted test, her past, present and future were all bound up with Rand. But neither she nor Nynaeve had the ultimate role because that doesn't fit with the Pattern's need for balance. 

 

Even though, I'm not generally a fan of Egwene's character, I was still hoping to see her and Rand's relationship resolve in some meaningful way.  The lack of that resolution does bother me a little bit.  

We did get it. Their last scene together was touching, and Rand giving her a ribbon to braid her hair was fitting (since their first major on screen fight was over Egwene unbraiding her hair, all the way back in EotW). They hugged, they made up, and immediately discovered the Seals were fake. The weight of the world interfered with any more time they could have had in peace. And Rand and Egwene thinking of each other as brother and sister was good too. Its a surprisingly subtle hint to where the Asha'man and Aes Sedai are headed... brothers and sisters, as they were before. 

 

And then came their true farewell. Whether it was Egwene herself Rand spoke to, or merely her simulated voice in his head, she's the one who points out to him that he hasn't failed yet, and that he needs to accept her death too (her talking about embracing death makes me think its the real Egwene, since that's only something the Wise One's have said before, and they said it to her). That was certainly a fitting end, no?

But, at the same time, the lack of resolution is consistent with her general character throughout the series.   She is consistent and with RJ's original concept of inverting the 'battle of the sexes' and I wonder if her death in the Last Battle is part of that original concept.  An example, of what I mean by this, is before the meeting in the tent at Merrilor, while Rand is walking across the field with the grass greening up around him, she wonders how he does it, but doesn't think to ask him.  Instead, she sends Gawyn to ask the Ashaman how he does it. 

Yep. It would have been ridiculously out of character for them at that point to talk about these things. But later... I'm surprised we didn't get a scene where Egwene tries to get as much knowledge from "LTT" as possible. The eternally sponge doesn't try to soak up from the greatest source of knowledge available to her? Not convinced.

 

Suttree: Adctually it mirrored Eldrene's death much more closely.

 

Keep in mind that Eldrene's death already mirrors LTT's. There's elements of both here. Loss of Warder followed by overdrawing through sa'angreal to kill enemies and dying in the process is very Eldrene like. But at the same time, dying in a column of Light that eventually caused a hilly region to collapse very strongly mirrors LTT's end. Egwene also has a "kinslaying" moment, killing Sharans and her own people in her rage (and mirroring Rand in tPoD against the Seanchan), as does Eldrene, when she burns down the most beautiful city in the world (with people in it?) as she kills the enemies who took her husband. 

 

The core elements are the same. Powerful channeler loses loved one. Is devastated. Overdraws on the Power deliberately, causes massive destruction. And the mountain and fire motif. Lews Therin raises Dragonmount, which is home to fire. Eldrene, who brings down the Mountain Home with fire. And Egwene, who unleashes the cleansing fire of the Flame of Tar Valon upon Polov Heights. I just wish the name of the weave and the heights for Egwene's end had a better ring to it. Dragonmount, Manatheren and Polov Heights?

 

The other connecting threads are Tar Valon and Ishamael. Lews Therin, forced into lucidity by Ishanael, creates Tar Valon in his death by fire. He's the "Father" of the Tower/Tar Valon. The Tower failing its Daughter, Eldrene, can be viewed as the beginning of its decay, and we can make conjectures as to Ishamael's role in the Tower end of this failing. Eldrene's descendent (possibly), takes stewardship of the Tower and cleanses it. And in her death, the Flame of Tar Valon, the "Mother" of the city, gives birth once again to hope and strength in Lews Therin's soul, allowing him to continue his ancient battle against the Shadow by stepping out of the Darkness and fighting... Ishamael!

 

Sabio: I still don't fully understand Egwene's last fight, I mean Taim had one of the most powerful things every built yet Egwene overpowered him.  With that mace he sohuld of been able to fry her to a pile of cinders.  Even with her drawing too much, we saw how powerful Demandred was with that mace.  That fight and her taking out all the remaining channlers at her death just seemed too cheesy for me.

 

 

We're told Sakarnen is powerful. We have no clue how powerful it is with respect to Vora's wand. If you read the section again, you'll see that before she overdraws, Egwene and Taim match each other exactly. Neither of their streams is able to overmatch the others. Its at this time that Egwene decides to draw in more of the OP than is safe.

 

So Sakarnen is definitely as powerful as Vora's wand. Which is unsurprising. Why should we think that there would be so many male sa'angreal in the upper reaches, but not female ones? And apart from the Choedan Kal and Callandor, Sakarnen and Vora's wand are the only two other sa'angreal that have names attached to them. To me, the attachement of a name indicates a powerful sa'angreal. So rare in its strength that it got its own name. It wasn't just some object, anymore. 

[papertiger]

Is it me or does Polov Heights sound like a bad housing project in the Ukraine?

 

Not sure which bothers me more, that name or Fortuona.

 

Also, I thought angreal had buffers. How did Egwene manage to overdraw?

[BFG]

It's mentioned that like Callandor Vora's wand had no buffers to prevent overdrawing

[Kudlak]

This will be long post sorry for that ...

 

 

 

 

The evidence in the books suggest that an AS can tell the direction that their warder is in and vice versa, but not a precise distance - obviously they can tell the difference between close and far away. To begin with Elaynes section is between Eg and Gawyn so she assumes he's gone to either check in on her or help her out, it's not until Eg moves somewhere else that she realises that he's on the Heights.

I have feeling it depend on distance ?? Close better. But you are right she use her bond to locate his position :

Egwene stood up with a start. She vaguely remembered him leaving her command tent for some air. How long ago had it been? She turned around slowly, sensing where he was. The bond let her tell his direction. She stopped when she was pointing toward him.

 

And this

 

Egwene hesitated. Her previous position had let her sense Gawyn in the direction of the river, but after moving through the gateway, she had a better sense of his position. He wasn’t at the river with Elayne’s armies.

Gawyn was on the Heights themselves, where the Shadow held the strongest.

Another things for this: From http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Warder -   Both parties are able to sense the other's general location, physical well-being and, to some extent, emotional state.

But in http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Bonding -  Both individuals are able to detect certain emotional and physical states about the other, and they have an unerring ability to locate the others' relative direction from their current location.

 

WTF ??

 

 

It's definitely more tragic if it's a combination of both; one of the best things about Egwene is that she absolutely refuses to give up, to use balefire, to submit to defeat. This trait is what helped her persevere through her captivity with the Seanchan, the BA in Tear, the Tower Aes Sedai, and her training with the Wise Ones. I just wish she didn't always have to contradict Rand just to contradict him.

 

Also, the Warder bond should have allowed her to easily locate Gawyn. Perhaps the rings dulled the sense? 

 

We cant say if rings dulled sense or not because we dont know :/

It's also kind of weird that she had NO IDEA that Gawyn was using a life-draining artifact of the One Power.

 

Just as weird as Siuan having NO IDEA that her Warder was being Compelled.

More weird when Egwen say in book that Gawyn look pale etc:

 

He was looking pale, though. As if at the start of a sickness. Had he been getting enough sleep?

She turned to Gawyn. He didn’t seem tired at all, though he was strangely pale.

 

Nothing in bond ??

After learning that the ter'angreal rings drained a person's life...I can't imagine what possessed Gawyn not to get rid of them.  Even Demandred was like "you dumbass...Night's Shade will end up killing you!" which basically told me that it's a weave that Demandred would never use himself.

 

I thought it was really irresponsible of Gawyn to put on the rings and just run off like that.  And it was really foolish of Egwene to just misplace her Warder like that, too.  "Oh, where's Gawyn...oh he's dying...why didn't I notice that before?"

 

Well there is problem. As somebody wrote before he was warned in ToM too, but in aMoL he is thinking only about this warning: 

 

“I’ll be fine,” he whispered, then slipped away before she could argue further. He did feel her spike of annoyance, and suspected he’d get an earful once they were out of this. Well, if they lived long enough for that to happen, he’d accept the reprimand happily.

Once he was a short distance from her, he slipped on one of the rings of the Bloodknives. He had activated it with his blood, as Leilwin had said was needed.

She’d also said it might kill him.

You’re a fool, Gawyn Trakand, he thought as a tingling sensation ran across his body. Though he’d used theter’angreal only once before, he knew that his figure had been blurred and darkened. If people glanced in his direction, their eyes would slide away from him. It worked particularly well in shadows. For once, he was pleased that those clouds blocked out any moonlight or starlight.

 

There I think BS ignore his own warning from ToM ...WTF??

 

 

Yeah, I understand that Egwene's exhausted with the war effort but you would think she would keep better tabs on the man she loved and bonded. I keep thinking of the scene in Shayol Ghul where Aviendha feels Rand's determination and reflects that he's grown into a true warrior. Where was that with Egwene?

 

Still, Egwene being so self-absorbed that she doesn't bother to think of anyone else isn't that surprising. In her defense, Gawyn is eminently forgettable.

 

:-)

Edited January 16, 2013 by Kudlak

[papertiger]

It's funny because those rings essentially turn Gawyn into a Fade. I wonder if their creation had anything to do with channeling through Myrdraal?

[MasterAblar]

We're told Sakarnen is powerful. We have no clue how powerful it is with respect to Vora's wand. If you read the section again, you'll see that before she overdraws, Egwene and Taim match each other exactly. Neither of their streams is able to overmatch the others. Its at this time that Egwene decides to draw in more of the OP than is safe.

 

So Sakarnen is definitely as powerful as Vora's wand. Which is unsurprising. Why should we think that there would be so many male sa'angreal in the upper reaches, but not female ones? And apart from the Choedan Kal and Callandor, Sakarnen and Vora's wand are the only two other sa'angreal that have names attached to them. To me, the attachement of a name indicates a powerful sa'angreal. So rare in its strength that it got its own name. It wasn't just some object, anymore. 

I think it's just a little suprising because nothing was ever made of the strength of Vora's wand. If it's about the same strength as Sakarnen, then that means it's even stronger than Callandor. You'd think at some point someone would have mentioned how incredibly powerful it is. The other thing is that it's quite fortitious that the WT, having lost so many angreal and sangreal, managed to hold on to the most powerful one, apart from the CK.

 

Also I wish we'd have been given some hint as to how Demandred found Sakarnen.

[papertiger]

Doesn't Lanfear mention something about Sakarnen when referring to sa'angreal in her attempt to seduce Rand into giving her the Choedan Kal? I remember thinking it was the Ring of Tamyrlin

 

I don't recall her bringing up Vora, but then again she always liked to remain mysterious.

[Kudlak]

 

 

On the balance thing...no, I don't buy it either. Egwene is not the Dragon's equal. Her actions did not bring "balance" to the world. All she did was provide a temporary bandaid over the damage caused by the balefire. There's no way in hell she's as important, or as connected to the land, as Rand. In fact, I don't see her as being any more connected to the land than any other channeler. She just happened to be in the right place at the right time because she was too egocentric to let someone else take the sa'angreal and face Taim. In the end, her "I have to do it all because no one is as awesome as me!" attitude led her to her death, one which she embraced fully once she realized she had burned herself out from channeling too much (something that should've been obvious to everyone around her given how she was constantly channeling and doing it all herself).

 

 

My biggest issue with the idea of Egwene being the balancer of Rand, is that I've envisioned the 'balance' in the series as being more a see saw, with the forces of the Shadow on one side, the forces of the Light on the other, and the Dragon acting as the fulcrum in the middle.  It is after all his choice to agree or disagree with the Dark One that is the real heart of the Last Battle.   The shadow's force could defeat the Light armies everywhere and he could still decide to keep fighting.  The light's force could defeat the Shadow's armies everywhere and he could still decide to accept oblivion. 

You're making the assumption that only one kind of balance can exist. But lets be clear... Egwene mirrors Rand. She's his balance, the saidar to his saidin... All this may be true, but Egwene was neither ta'veren nor a major part of the Prophesies. Nor was Rand's other "balance", Nynaeve. There's a reason for that. While Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne contribute as much as Mat and Perrin, they're not destroyers of the old order. Women have had disproportional influence on the Pattern for 3000 years. The balance for that is an enormously powerful (I don't mean OP strength) man, Rand. The Pattern of Egwene's life closely matches Rand's, and they're tied together. As Egwene saw in her Accepted test, her past, present and future were all bound up with Rand. But neither she nor Nynaeve had the ultimate role because that doesn't fit with the Pattern's need for balance. 

 

>Even though, I'm not generally a fan of Egwene's character, I was still hoping to see her and Rand's relationship resolve in some meaningful way.  The lack of that resolution does bother me a little bit.  

We did get it. Their last scene together was touching, and Rand giving her a ribbon to braid her hair was fitting (since their first major on screen fight was over Egwene unbraiding her hair, all the way back in EotW). They hugged, they made up, and immediately discovered the Seals were fake. The weight of the world interfered with any more time they could have had in peace. And Rand and Egwene thinking of each other as brother and sister was good too. Its a surprisingly subtle hint to where the Asha'man and Aes Sedai are headed... brothers and sisters, as they were before. 

 

And then came their true farewell. Whether it was Egwene herself Rand spoke to, or merely her simulated voice in his head, she's the one who points out to him that he hasn't failed yet, and that he needs to accept her death too (her talking about embracing death makes me think its the real Egwene, since that's only something the Wise One's have said before, and they said it to her). That was certainly a fitting end, no?

But, at the same time, the lack of resolution is consistent with her general character throughout the series.   She is consistent and with RJ's original concept of inverting the 'battle of the sexes' and I wonder if her death in the Last Battle is part of that original concept.  An example, of what I mean by this, is before the meeting in the tent at Merrilor, while Rand is walking across the field with the grass greening up around him, she wonders how he does it, but doesn't think to ask him.  Instead, she sends Gawyn to ask the Ashaman how he does it. 

Yep. It would have been ridiculously out of character for them at that point to talk about these things. But later... I'm surprised we didn't get a scene where Egwene tries to get as much knowledge from "LTT" as possible. The eternally sponge doesn't try to soak up from the greatest source of knowledge available to her? Not convinced.

 

Suttree: Adctually it mirrored Eldrene's death much more closely.

 

Keep in mind that Eldrene's death already mirrors LTT's. There's elements of both here. Loss of Warder followed by overdrawing through sa'angreal to kill enemies and dying in the process is very Eldrene like. But at the same time, dying in a column of Light that eventually caused a hilly region to collapse very strongly mirrors LTT's end. Egwene also has a "kinslaying" moment, killing Sharans and her own people in her rage (and mirroring Rand in tPoD against the Seanchan), as does Eldrene, when she burns down the most beautiful city in the world (with people in it?) as she kills the enemies who took her husband. 

She didnt kill any Aes Sedai dint she ??

The core elements are the same. Powerful channeler loses loved one. Is devastated. Overdraws on the Power deliberately, causes massive destruction. And the mountain and fire motif. Lews Therin raises Dragonmount, which is home to fire. Eldrene, who brings down the Mountain Home with fire. And Egwene, who unleashes the cleansing fire of the Flame of Tar Valon upon Polov Heights. I just wish the name of the weave and the heights for Egwene's end had a better ring to it. Dragonmount, Manatheren and Polov Heights?

 

All others with cool name alredy taken ???

 

[MasterAblar]

She didnt kill any Aes Sedai dint she ??

 

When Gawyn dies, she flies into a bit of a rage for a short moment before one of the Aes Sedai (I forget who, maybe Silviana), tells her that she's going to kill them, and makes her retreat through a gateway. I don't know if she did kill any but it's quite possible. Edited January 16, 2013 by Master Ablar