Saddest moments in the book

[Orange7]

I don't feel that it was accurate for her character. As someone who quoted the KC to Elaida extensively during their little tea party argument, the concept that Egwene wouldn't even consider the part about breaking what must be broken seems a little far fetched to me.

[Celebel]

Not only that, but we now know for sure that LTT even when sane, was a pretty flawed character, whose mistakes and arrogance have cost the side Light dearly and but for Latra Posae and Co. may have cost far more still.

 

Not to mention that Rand/LTT did not have the solution anyway, it was Min, another young Third-ager and hobbyist philosopher that found it for him.

Rand's ideas about personally leading the war, timing of the seal-breaking and certain specifics of the his treaty were proven to be wrong as well.

 

So, yes, Egwene was right to oppose him. Deal with it.

The way Egwene and Rand clashed could have been done better, though.

 

Re: lack of experience being an impediment - WoT's schtick has always been that youth and exuberance beats something - something and experience - which is why the main cast ended up in control of everything, despite their initial lack of qualifications.

 

And funny thing - the superboys were actually cheered on while they did it, it is just for supergirls that this argument is repeatedly brought up. I wonder why, heh.

[Pinzarn]

And funny thing - the superboys were actually cheered on while they did it, it is just for supergirls that this argument is repeatedly brought up. I wonder why, heh.

 

You're right on that.  I put it more as neither of the two authors conveyed/wrote the supergirls well.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

 

And funny thing - the superboys were actually cheered on while they did it, it is just for supergirls that this argument is repeatedly brought up. I wonder why, heh.

 

I think it's because they were Ta'veren. Basically, we were told the pattern needed them and the pattern helped them to get their way quite often. They supergirls were just some well intentioned chicks. RawR!!! ;)

Seriously. Ta'veren. They had authority from the Wheel itself. So, when they were lacking, that made up for everything.

[YourNewDragonAndGod]

Perrin searching for Faile was so heartwrenching

[XXX]

 

And funny thing - the superboys were actually cheered on while they did it, it is just for supergirls that this argument is repeatedly brought up. I wonder why, heh.

 

Because they are tavern,there is a reason for their special abilities. Something missing especially for Egwene.Atleast Ny and Elayne have a lifetime of experience and teachings backing their actions.

[Durinax]

one of the saddest for me was when I thought Elayne had been raped and killed

[Bluedust9]

When Egwene died. She was one of my favorite characters. It was a fitting death, a worthy death, but I really wanted her the remain alive and bring sanity and stability to the Tower.

 

One of my favorite moments was when she dies, she's probably one of the characters I hate in my entire collection of books. I thought Rands pyre being lit was sad.

 

I'm just catching up on this thread, but I can't parse this post. Is sentence #2 about someone else?

[Lutrogale]

To me, the saddest moment was when Egwene died. I've seen and heard so much hate towards here over the years, but for some reason she was one of the few characters in the story that I resonated with. I will admit that in the last three books, she wasn't all that great, but I blame that on either Brandon Sanderson's lack of skill writing her character (nobody's perfect) or most likely, that three books wasn't enough to get Egwene where she needed to be in character development, so she was rushed.

 

Honestly, I was shocked that she died. Even a little bit mad at first. For all the effort poured into her character to get her from an innkeeper's daughter to the most powerful figure in the world was emense. She dealt with being tortured a few times, she was constantly underestimated and treated like a child, but yet everwhere she went, she seemed to take positive ideas an incorporate them into her belief structure. She fundementally changed the way the Tower would be run in the Fourth Age (assuming her actions weren't immediately withdrawn).

 

I think that was my problem with her death, though. She had so little time to cement her ideas into the Tower. I expected her to live a long time, enough to see the Tower return to glory after the devistation of the Seanchan attacks and the Last Battle. The already dwendling numbers of women channelers over the centuries got much, much smaller at the end. And yet, she just dies. In a blaze of glory, but she just dies.

 

I kept hoping there would be a way to bring her back, though I suppose that was foolish thinking. I was sad to see her gone, even more sad for Rand to watch her thread wink out.

[TheWyld]

Honestly, I just felt a really deep sorrow after I finished the book. I suppose I didn't want it to end, and I think that was the saddest part. Just the fact that this series that has been through so much with me is now gone... It's not that I didn't like the ending, It's just that it didn't really resonate within me. And I found that the ammount of questions I had prevented me from really appreciation the ending. Besides that though, I didn't find many scenes actually sad, espescially not Bela's death, maybe a little bit on Egwene's death, but she went down bravely. Rand was my favorite character (I know, I know, seems like everyone disagrees with me on that) and the lighting of his pyre was sad until I realized he was alive, so I wasn't sad at all. Same with Birgitte, had she actually died, I'd have been actually sad.

[mrhumble1]

/RANT ON

 

Long time WOT reader here.  I used to belong to the WOTMania community (an AGE ago) but haven't posted here or had much involvement in the community.  That being said, I finished AMOL last night and am quite furious and must vent.  I really hope the WOT writing team reads this and understands they seriously damaged the series for me with this book.  

 

The main event that set me off was Bela's death.  I was not as sad at this as I was FURIOUS and DISGUSTED.  Since several of you don't understand why this is so awful, allow me to elaborate:

 

Let us compare the of the main deaths.  Posts here pretty much agree that Egwene and Bela are at the top of the list.  

 

Egwene, as a human in control of herself, had complete free will.  She gave of herself deliberately and for a grand purpose.  She knew what she was doing and did it without reservation because she knew what it would accomplish.  It was not traumatic, painful, or terrifying for her.  On the contrary, it was powerful and beautiful.  She even says herself, from beyond the grave, that she did what she did purposefully and was satisfied with the outcome.  She demanded and deserved respect for her heroism and willing self sacrifice.  

 

Now let's take Bela.  First off, anyone who doesn't see her as a central character is kidding themselves.  She was in the very first chapter or the very first book, and she had recurring roles throughout the series as a dependent and courageous companion.  She consistently showed courage, intelligence, and spirit while serving several different masters. Unfortunately though, as a trained and domesticated animal, she had only limited control over her circumstances.  She did not choose to be there in the middle of the Trolloc army. That decision was made for her.

 

So here we come to the rage-inducing moment.  These are why I am so upset:

 

- Bela was given an extremely difficult mission.  She had to run Oliver to safety from an awful position.  That mission failed when she was hit by an arrow and dropped Oliver.  In comparison to Egwene, Bela was placed in a terrible scenario yet without the tools she would need to escape.  She had no help and no offensive abilities. 

 

- This is a big one: Bela did not have to die. She wasn't an active military unit, or a powerful channeler.  She could have easily fallen down and dropped Oliver, thus leaving him to his eventual hornsounding fate, yet kept running and escaped.  It would not have been the first time she had escaped danger by herself.  However these options were brushed aside FOR NO REASON.  SHE DIED FOR NO PURPOSE.  This was only done to generate an emotional response, to sadden us and PI$$ US OFF.  Well, to whoever wrote this, let me remind you that WOT is not a damn chick flick.  Nobody reads this series for a "good cry".  If they did, this still would not qualify.  It is more horrific than anything.  This leads me to the next point...

 

- What is the most horrible fate in the WOT universe?  Of the top 3 most terrifying and horrible fates is to be killed and eaten by Trollocs.  In just about every book there are those who fear ending up in a Trolloc cook-pot. So what happens to Bela?  She dies painfully and virtually alone in a hellishly terrifying environment.  Then she was most certainly butchered and eaten.  That's what happens when one is killed by Trollocs in their own camp.  Bela's was a terrible, terrible fate.  She dies worse than several of the Chosen, and it's likely none of them ended up eaten by Trollocs after they died.  

 

Bela deserved better.

 

 

So the decision was made by some writer to kill her in a disgusting and terrifying way.  They could have had her die heroically running herself to death to save someone, or by valiantly jumping in front of some attack to save someone in a selfless act of sacrifice.  Instead we get what we got, and I am MAD AS HELL.

 

I don't know who made the final call on this, but they need to know this seriously affected my enjoyment of this book.  I have MANY problems with it as a whole, but this is such a deliberate attempt to upset us that I can't understand who though it would be a good idea.  Yes, there are some sick people (see below) who have no empathy for animals but the vast majority of us love our pets and understand that in the WOT world, horses are as much part of any family as anyone else.  I am sure there are only a very few people read this scene and thought the outcome was ok.

 

So, to whoever wrote this scene, or whoever approved it, or anyone involved in it's crafting, I say  GO SUCK ON FAIN'S CRUSTY LIMP DAGGER.  

 

*NOTE* I doubt R.Jordan would have written Bela to die this way if he was still alive.  I am putting this on B. Sanderson until I hear otherwise.  I already know he likes to kill off favorites so this is just like him. So, B. Sanderson, see above for what you can do.  I hope it tastes awful.**

 

/RANT OFF

 

 

Finally, the following posts really scare me. I am sure these guys probably read my post and thought "This guy is pathetic.  It's just a damn fictitious animal so why does anyone care?"  

 

Well, I care because I have a beloved pet and feel sympathy for any suffering creature.  If you cannot feel love or empathy for any animal or pet (horse, dog, cat, etc) then there is a part of your humanity that is missing.  Yes, it's only a book. but we love this series for a reason and that is because we feel like we know these characters.  Yes, "characters" includes creatures both great and small, human and animal.

 

 

 

I am baffled many of you think that the death of a horse was the saddest death in the book , no offense i like animals but really ?

 

Also, maybe I'm just different, but at no point did I empathize with Bela.  It was a horse. 

 

Holy crap what's it with everyone caring about Bela? People are dying, WHO CARES ABOUT THE DEATH OF SOME GODDAMN HORSE!

[Aleator77]

I don't really get your logic here.  Of course there were other options possible and she didn't have to die.  That's true for any character who has ever died in any fictional setting ever.  The author could just write it slightly different and have them live.  It doesn't mean the death is pointless.  As a matter of fact, the death had a very specific point...to evoke the reader's emotion, which your response proves happened successfully.  

[mrhumble1]

I don't really get your logic here.  Of course there were other options possible and she didn't have to die.  That's true for any character who has ever died in any fictional setting ever.  The author could just write it slightly different and have them live.  It doesn't mean the death is pointless.  As a matter of fact, the death had a very specific point...to evoke the reader's emotion, which your response proves happened successfully.  

 

Ok "to provoke emotion" is fine but the emotions I felt here are anger, disgust, hate, sadness, confusion, etc.  One does not equate those emotions with anything pleasant or wanted.  Who wants to read something and be pissed off at it or disgusted by it???  I mentioned some people may appreciate a "good cry" but this event probably does not meet the requirements for that to happen.  I doubt very seriously anyone who felt emotion at Bela's death felt the "good" part of a "good cry".

 

Of course any character can be written to have any fate, but the fate must be something deserved, earned, or otherwise consistent with their life.  For Bela to last through the entire series but meet such a bad end just feels very wrong for the reasons I stated.  To have a character die for the sole purpose of saddening/angering the reader extremely cheapens the character's death.  A major character can die, sure, but it should have purpose related to the story, and no other reason. 

 

Also this is all just one man's opinion.  I was so angry at this event that I felt I had to post and vent for my own good. 

[Bluedust9]

I'm not sure if this is serious, but this is a pretty big effortpost so I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Looks like Bela's death had it's intended result.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Meanwhile, Mandarb,

RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN-NOTIMETOSTOP-RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN-FOOD?-AIN'T GOT NO TIME FO 'DAT!

ITS ALL GOOD I'M SECRETLY THE WARDER WHO CAN RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN AGAIN AND AGAIN

PPPpfff, that horse(Mandarb) should have dropped DROPPED dead, the way it was portrayed for having Lan be in on charge, after charge, after charge...all over the place.

And yet, stiiillll kicking. *Mr. Ed winks emphatically.

____


*cough

Carry on....

[Suttree]

Someone had to carry Lan through his Magical Mystery Tour of fake death after fake death.

[Ryrin]

 

I don't really get your logic here.  Of course there were other options possible and she didn't have to die.  That's true for any character who has ever died in any fictional setting ever.  The author could just write it slightly different and have them live.  It doesn't mean the death is pointless.  As a matter of fact, the death had a very specific point...to evoke the reader's emotion, which your response proves happened successfully.  

 

Ok "to provoke emotion" is fine but the emotions I felt here are anger, disgust, hate, sadness, confusion, etc.  One does not equate those emotions with anything pleasant or wanted.  Who wants to read something and be pissed off at it or disgusted by it???  I mentioned some people may appreciate a "good cry" but this event probably does not meet the requirements for that to happen.  I doubt very seriously anyone who felt emotion at Bela's death felt the "good" part of a "good cry".

 

Of course any character can be written to have any fate, but the fate must be something deserved, earned, or otherwise consistent with their life.  For Bela to last through the entire series but meet such a bad end just feels very wrong for the reasons I stated.  To have a character die for the sole purpose of saddening/angering the reader extremely cheapens the character's death.  A major character can die, sure, but it should have purpose related to the story, and no other reason. 

 

Also this is all just one man's opinion.  I was so angry at this event that I felt I had to post and vent for my own good. 

 

 

I agree with your post.  I too was saddened and disgusted about how some characters were handled and their deaths dismissed with one or two lines.

[mrhumble1]

Meanwhile, Mandarb,

 

RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN-NOTIMETOSTOP-RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN-FOOD?-AIN'T GOT NO TIME FO 'DAT!

 

ITS ALL GOOD I'M SECRETLY THE WARDER WHO CAN RUN-RUN-RUN-RUN AGAIN AND AGAIN

 

PPPpfff, that horse(Mandarb) should have dropped DROPPED dead, the way it was portrayed for having Lan be in on charge, after charge, after charge...all over the place.

 

And yet, stiiillll kicking. *Mr. Ed winks emphatically.

 

____

 

 

*cough

 

Carry on....

 

I wasn't all that surprised Mandarb survived.  He's a trained warhorse, and he was most certainly armored.  Also, don't forget he was being ridden by the most skilled warrior alive who's not an Aiel.  Also it is possible the horses got some of their fatigue washed away by the channelers on hand.

[mrhumble1]

 

 

I don't really get your logic here.  Of course there were other options possible and she didn't have to die.  That's true for any character who has ever died in any fictional setting ever.  The author could just write it slightly different and have them live.  It doesn't mean the death is pointless.  As a matter of fact, the death had a very specific point...to evoke the reader's emotion, which your response proves happened successfully.  

 

Ok "to provoke emotion" is fine but the emotions I felt here are anger, disgust, hate, sadness, confusion, etc.  One does not equate those emotions with anything pleasant or wanted.  Who wants to read something and be pissed off at it or disgusted by it???  I mentioned some people may appreciate a "good cry" but this event probably does not meet the requirements for that to happen.  I doubt very seriously anyone who felt emotion at Bela's death felt the "good" part of a "good cry".

 

Of course any character can be written to have any fate, but the fate must be something deserved, earned, or otherwise consistent with their life.  For Bela to last through the entire series but meet such a bad end just feels very wrong for the reasons I stated.  To have a character die for the sole purpose of saddening/angering the reader extremely cheapens the character's death.  A major character can die, sure, but it should have purpose related to the story, and no other reason. 

 

Also this is all just one man's opinion.  I was so angry at this event that I felt I had to post and vent for my own good. 

 

 

I agree with your post.  I too was saddened and disgusted about how some characters were handled and their deaths dismissed with one or two lines.

 

This is a major issue I have with the book in general.  A lot of time was spent on some sequences that could have been shortened, or the book given a few more pages, and that would have allowed certain characters to die with a little more dignity and purpose.  If we've followed a character for thousands of pages over many years, they should get a little more than a paragraph that can be summarized as "They got blown up and then left behind to be crushed/burned/eaten/etc."

[Entreri]

Sir Lancelot and his magical steed Swift Wind, uhh, Mandarb. No can defend. 

 

RIP Demandred, Myddrraal and a host of other unsavory characters.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Pff, he(Mandarb) was constantly portrayed as charging headlong time after time into field(s) undoubtedly, as in there's no way you could say otherwise, strewn with an insane number of corpses.

He was probably shod with mystical never-trip-on-anything-lest-casual-plot-insights-bring-about-a-completely-rational-downfall-with-regard-to-rampant-contextual-support, horseshoes of zomg.

Never mind the fact, as you pointed out, that he also had to cart around the most skilled beefiest warrior alive, in armor, and if you want to include the trained warhorse as wearing armor of his own as well, sure that too! No sweat, hey HEY NO TIME FOR TALK TIME FOR ANOTHER CHARGE ON TROLLOCS YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH WHEN YOU'RE TALKING TO ME!


For real though, you're upset Bela got axed, and find that Mandarb whistled dixie on through unsurprising?

Goooo figure *shrug

[mrhumble1]

Pff, he(Mandarb) was constantly portrayed as charging headlong time after time into field(s) undoubtedly, as in there's no way you could say otherwise, strewn with an insane number of corpses.

 

For real though, you're upset Bela got axed, and find that Mandarb whistled dixie on through unsurprising?

 

Goooo figure *shrug

 

Well I don't think Mandarb was whistling Dixie, but I DO think it is believable for him to survive a lot of difficult battles because that's what he is trained to do plus he had a lot of help.  I also think that if Mandarb died it would have been appropriate because he was placed in such incredible danger over and over with the intent of STAYING in danger. 

 

That's one big difference between them.  Bela wasn't trying to fight the Trollocs, she was trying to flee.  She had made her way out of dangerous encounters before so it would not have been a stretch to imagine her finding a way to escape... 

[Mats Spare Hat]

Don't get me wrong, I agree.

The explicit killing of Bela, for the reasons you've expounded upon previously, are right on point.

LETS KILL A HORSE YEAH!
Um, okay which one? Lan's? What about Mat's? They've each been in or around battle quite a long while, it makes prett-
NO! THAT LIKEABLE ONE WHO WAS THERE SINCE THE BEGINNING!
That doesn't really fit BS, how're we goin- I'LL JUST CREATE A ROUNDABOUT SCENARIO FOR THE SAKE OF IT! OLVER WILL RIDE HER!
But...How does Olver go from Caemlyn all knifey-knife towards trollocs, to being in the WT on a caravan?
QUIET NO TIME FO' 'DAT I'M WRITING AND I'M LATE FOR A MAGIC THE GATHERING TOURNAMENT!


Poor girl got Sandertarded... * resigned sigh, slowly raises fist

[Guest dagz45]

reading the words 'There are neither beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a ending.'

this caused a few tears i must admit

[mrhumble1]

Don't get me wrong, I agree.

 

The explicit killing of Bela, for the reasons you've expounded upon previously, are right on point.

 

LETS KILL A HORSE YEAH!

Um, okay which one? Lan's? What about Mat's? They've each been in or around battle quite a long while, it makes prett-

NO! THAT LIKEABLE ONE WHO WAS THERE SINCE THE BEGINNING!

That doesn't really fit BS, how're we goin- I'LL JUST CREATE A ROUNDABOUT SCENARIO FOR THE SAKE OF IT! OLVER WILL RIDE HER!

But...How does Olver go from Caemlyn all knifey-knife towards trollocs, to being in the WT on a caravan?

QUIET NO TIME FO' 'DAT I'M WRITING AND I'M LATE FOR A MAGIC THE GATHERING TOURNAMENT!

 

 

Poor girl got Sandertarded... * resigned sigh, slowly raises fist

 

Well said.  

 

You know, I was so worried that certain other characters would die (Rand, Lan, Tam) and that I might be upset at that, but I would have much preferred any of them to die rather than Bela.  Overall I am satisfied with those who were chosen to die and would otherwise be pleasantly surprised. Then Bela died and all that went out the window/ I never thought she would be killed so that it happened was bad enough.  Then the way it happened is what really grinds my gears.