WHAT DID YOU SAY? - things that characters might finally find out

[Clouded]

Yeah, but the Foxes in the arch at Rhuidean give you actual things, the Snakes in Tear answer questions. I always wanted to know what Moiraine actually did while in Rhuidean, she didn't come back with anything. Did she go through the crystal and see her Cairhien ancestors?

 

Sorry I was mistaken and called them arches. I actually meant rings. The Silver Arches are in the White Tower.

 

The Three Rings of Rhuidean play out possibilities of a person future. Moiraine went through these rings. It is how she knows she will be attacked by Lanfear, and that all will think her dead.

[thisguy]

Yeah, but the Foxes in the arch at Rhuidean give you actual things, the Snakes in Tear answer questions. I always wanted to know what Moiraine actually did while in Rhuidean, she didn't come back with anything. Did she go through the crystal and see her Cairhien ancestors?

 

Sorry I was mistaken and called them arches. I actually meant rings. The Silver Arches are in the White Tower.

 

The Three Rings of Rhuidean play out possibilities of a person future. Moiraine went through these rings. It is how she knows she will be attacked by Lanfear, and that all will think her dead.

 

Ah, ah, ah.... sorry, my mistake.

[Vardar]

I always thought being rescued was what Morianie saw in Rhuiden.

 

Also, will Tuon be upset or happy about Mat losing his eye?

 

Nope. She tells Thom in the Stone that he will see her again, and she guarenteed it.

 

She learned it in the arches.

[thisguy]

I always thought being rescued was what Morianie saw in Rhuiden.

 

Also, will Tuon be upset or happy about Mat losing his eye?

 

Nope. She tells Thom in the Stone that he will see her again, and she guarenteed it.

 

She learned it in the arches.

That's right. Right after Thom is setting up his little game with the two Tairen Lords and the Lady for Rand - writes the letter so that the one lord will think his wife's sleeping with the other. Good call.

[Clouded]

I always thought being rescued was what Morianie saw in Rhuiden.

 

Also, will Tuon be upset or happy about Mat losing his eye?

 

Nope. She tells Thom in the Stone that he will see her again, and she guarenteed it.

 

She learned it in the arches.

 

When you say arches, do you mean the Twisted Doorways?

 

Even though, while in the stone, she guarantees that she would see Thom again, that does not imply that she learned about her rescue there.

[Apple Scruff]

This is from the WOT Wiki: The Aiel's use of the glass columns has always produced an experience of the past, but the function of the ter'angreal has proved to have a wider range of function. The glass columns actually change the visions shown to correspond to the needs of the user, though it may only work for the needs of Aiel. When Aviendha journeys to Rhuidean the second time, she wonders about the future of the Aiel and the use of the columns, now that all the Aiel know its secrets and that the Aiel's purpose as the People of the Dragon are nearly fulfilled. When she touches the columns, the visions change, and the ter'angreal shows the lives of future generations of Aiel instead showing the genocide of the people by the Seanchan.

 

This combined with Morianie saying in the letter she had seen it play out many ways is what makes me think she saw her rescue here and was not one of her true answers from the Finns.

[shortkut]

the columns showed her nothing for two reasons

1. she went into the ringd not the columns

2. the columns would not show variations of the same event. it shows past or future through lineage.

[Thrasymachus]

That wiki suggesting that the columns respond to the needs of the user is pure speculation. We don't know why exactly the columns showed Avi the future after she tried to delve them. It could have been a response to the delving, it could be something specific to Aviendha due to her Talent of "reading" ter'angreal, it could be that the columns themselves were designed to change after someone who already knew the history of the Aiel went through them, with the assumption that that would only occur after the Car'a'carn went through them. For all we know, the columns are now "broken" and won't ever work to show anybody the past or future ever again.

 

Moiraine almost certainly learned that she would survive to see Thom and the others again during her trip through the twisted archways in Tear, else by the Three Oaths, she couldn't have guaranteed that she would see Thom again. But she learned how she would survive in going through the rings, which show all the choices and outcomes of those choices the person going in them will make in the future. Her letter suggests that the details of the rescue attempt were revealed to her in the rings, given how she writes that it may happen this way, or that way or some third way, and may still not succeed even if all the details are right.

[Apple Scruff]

This I can buy. Or perhaps the Finns told her she would marry Thom. That would explain her guarantee.

[Suttree]

People need to be careful with the Wiki. It's well put together and a great read but there is a fair amount of guess work/speculation at times. It's not an accepted source within the fandom.

[Apple Scruff]

That kinda hurts my feelings, Suttree.

 

Anyway, my point was Morianie saw her rescue in Rhuidean and that it was not an answer from the Finns. Most likely rings, but we don't know what the colomns would show a non-Aiel and no one witnessed what she did for sure.

[Clouded]

Suppose Moiraine's information that she would marry Thom came from a viewing from Min. Would that be enough information for Moiraine to guarantee to Thom that she would see him again?

[shortkut]

Suppose Moiraine's information that she would marry Thom came from a viewing from Min. Would that be enough information for Moiraine to guarantee to Thom that she would see him again?

in her mind, min is never wrong. that would allow moir to swear on the oaths to thom

[Alanna]

On my recent reread of TEOTW, it made me think that Min had seen a viewing concerning her marrying Thom, or at least somehow being connected to Thom. Mostly because she's very sure that Thom isn't dead, and she mentions Min seeing things about him as part of her reason for being so sure.

 

I thought it was pretty much sure that she saw what would happen to her (the ToG stuff) in Rhuidean. When she went through the rings. (FYI, some people don't seem to making the distinction - the colums are what Clan Chiefs would go through, and WO Apprentices on their second trip to Rhuidean - and it would show them the past history of the Aiel. The rings are what women who want to become WO Apprentices would go through on their first trip to Rhuidean, and it shows them possible futures. It's how Avi saw that she would fall in love with Rand.) I don't think Moiraine could have known so much about what would happen if it was just an answer from the Finns. She has all these details about how Mat needs to ask Thom about the letter, how it has to be just the two of them and one other, etc. Sounds to me like she's seen possible futures, some where they succeed, some where they fail and die.

 

EDIT - Actually, her letter pretty much confirms this. She says:

 

I have seen you try and die, one or two or all three. I have seen myself die in the attempt. I have seen all of us live and die as captives.

 

She says she's seen it. Must be from the rings, not from answers from the Finns.

[Suttree]

That kinda hurts my feelings, Suttree.

 

Sorry? Not sure why and it certainly wasn't

my intention. Was trying to just give you some perspective when taking things off the Wiki.

[Terez]

I'd say Mat marrying the Seanchan Empress will be a big surprise for Rand. I know Perrin and Elayne both know, but I can't think of who else does.

 

Elayne does not know. Perrin knows, and Moiraine, and everyone who was with him when it happened, but he hasn't told Elayne and Perrin didn't tell her either.

[Luckers]

Suppose Moiraine's information that she would marry Thom came from a viewing from Min. Would that be enough information for Moiraine to guarantee to Thom that she would see him again?

 

Parts of it certainly did. The way she reacts to him in the Two Rivers makes it very clear. Other parts she got from the rings, and possibly more still from the Aelfinn.

[Thrasymachus]

Forgot about the Min viewing thing, and that actually seems more likely to me as a justification for her guarantee than info from the Finns. I doubt Moiraine would ask them who she would marry, why waste a question on that? And I doubt she would ask a question as broad and with such slippery possible answers as "what's my destiny/role/etc. in all this?" Though she may have asked how she could help the Dragon Reborn fulfill his destiny, and they may have told her she had to marry the Silver Fox, I doubt they'd be more clear than that, but even that's not a guarantee that she would see Thom again or actually marry him. So in order for her to guarantee Thom she'd see him again, she'd had to have an infallible source, and Min meets that qualification, where the Finn's are unlikely to give such a clear answer, and their prophecies can be side-stepped, as they acknowledged to Mat, though the consequences are dire, and Moiraine may not know that.

[Terez]

Suppose Moiraine's information that she would marry Thom came from a viewing from Min. Would that be enough information for Moiraine to guarantee to Thom that she would see him again?

 

Parts of it certainly did. The way she reacts to him in the Two Rivers makes it very clear.

 

That and the fact that her 'I could wager I know the face of the man I will marry...' bit came before she went through the doorway.

 

Other parts she got from the rings, and possibly more still from the Aelfinn.

 

This, I doubt. She made it seem like she didn't learn anything else pertinent at all from the Rings, and I doubt her questions to the Aelfinn would have purposefully touched on Thom. (And unless her marriage is as important as Mat's was, I doubt they mentioned it offhandedly either.)

[Maleshub]

The Moiraine - Thom "attraction" starts off with a very small hint in The Eye of the World. Moiraine laughs delightedly at his show trying to intimidate the Taren Ferry ferry owner. And at Whitebridge, she asks and learns that he isn't dead; and tells the boys that little bit of good news.

 

Their next meeting, if I recall correctly, is in the Stone of Tear; where Thom says, "That is a very fine woman" during their meeting where she sends him off to Tanchico. In Tear she says her famous line that Terez quoted above, which (to me) indicates that her feelings for Thom are more romantic than the scenes so far inidcate. The evidence is that the next thing in their relationship is her "Dearest Thom" letter. I don't think she would have been that emotional in the letter if she hadn't been in love him already, or if she got her hint at marriage from the Tear stone doorway or Rhuidean circles.

[Alric]

Also, when Mat finds a drunk Thom in Tar Valon he goes on about how beautiful she is and that its a shame she is Aes Sedai.

[thisguy]

She probably has some clue who he really is by book 3. They have a lot in common. He saved Matt and Rand from a fade. She fell for the old bastard. Good for him..

[fuzz1717]

I think its sorta weird that Moir and thom end up together, considering Thom is what... 60? 65? Even if life expectancy is wayyyy up, Moir will outlive him by at least a few centuries cuz of the channeling effect, unless they both die at TG (which is quite possible)

[thisguy]

I think its sorta weird that Moir and thom end up together, considering Thom is what... 60? 65? Even if life expectancy is wayyyy up, Moir will outlive him by at least a few centuries cuz of the channeling effect, unless they both die at TG (which is quite possible)

Yeah, but if she bonds him won't his aging slow? She's got to be in her 50s, at least very late 40s.

[Alric]

Moiraine is 44 as of the last books, while Thom is in his late 60s. The Warder bond helps keep the Warder in good shape until old age, but I'm not actually sure it makes him live longer (apart from the benefit of being in good health in your late years).

 

Maybe Moiraine and Siuan will get back together after their Warders are gone, and live happily ever after on a farm with a bunch of cats.