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bigdoug1971

Thom's special daggers at Whitebridge

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Ok. I know in the past this has been a heated point of discussion, but I'm in the middle of a re-read and I'm to the point of the Spray getting to Whitebridge.

 

As we all know, Thom, Mat, and Rand decide they are going to have to run for it and as they are crossing the square they spot the Fade. Thom gives the boys his bundle with harp and flute tied inside and screams at them to "RUN!" then he sprang into motion with the Fade 20 feet away and produced daggers.

 

The book specifically says that Thom collided with the Fade before it even had it's sword half-drawn and they both went down in a crashing heap. The few people left in the square fled.

"RUN!" The air in the square flashed an eye-searing blue and Thom began to scream, but even in the middle of the scream he managed a word. "RUN!"

 

 

Has anyone ever said or figured out what caused the blue flashes? I was assuming it was the same type of flash as when Lan met the Fade in the forrest when the group was still together and making for Shadar Logoth. I've heard it as "Thom indeed had very special daggers", and also that the blue flash was from something else entirely. (No idea what would have caused it if not the daggers/Fade's sword colliding). And I've also read where maybe RJ had a "misprint" in the book.

 

Has there been any new discoveries, theories, or reason this happened?

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They could have been power wrought daggers. While weapons like that are rare, its not unreasonable that someone as well connected as Thom could have come across a pair of daggers like that in his life. As to whether or not it's the truth... who is to say, i honestly dont think i ever even noticed it before

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Dang. Someone just posted a link earlier that I read (Or I googled something else and read that quote anyway) from RJ saying the Blue lightning was from the Fade sword on a power wrought weapon.

 

So... Thom had power wrought daggers?

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So... Thom had power wrought daggers?

 

Unfortunately there are conflicting quotes on the topic.

 

Oh really? You mean RJ quotes?

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This is the only quote about blue flashes I could find in the TL quote database:

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=55#2

 

PAM KORDA

 

When Fades use their swords, we often see blue flashes when the Fade blade hits another weapon. Is this an interaction between the Fade blade and a specific sort of weapon (such as other Fade blades, or Aes Sedai-forged swords), or an interaction between the Fade blade and any iron, or is it just a special effect with no special basis?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

The reaction is specific. The Fade's sword striking Power-wrought metal.

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This is the only quote about blue flashes I could find in the TL quote database:

 

http://www.theorylan...main.php?i=55#2

 

PAM KORDA

 

When Fades use their swords, we often see blue flashes when the Fade blade hits another weapon. Is this an interaction between the Fade blade and a specific sort of weapon (such as other Fade blades, or Aes Sedai-forged swords), or an interaction between the Fade blade and any iron, or is it just a special effect with no special basis?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

The reaction is specific. The Fade's sword striking Power-wrought metal.

 

That's the one I saw. Although there was one that mentioned fade vs fade had blue effects too and asking if Fade sword were power wrought.

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Right, I've found some more (tagged with 'Thom's knives')

 

Some Twitter quotes about Thom's knives:

 

http://www.theorylan...main.php?i=2#15

 

MATT EITNER (17 JULY 2010)

 

Will we ever find out why there were blue flashes when Thom fought the Myrddraal at Whitebridge while Rand and Mat fled?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON (19 JULY 2010)

 

I believe Robert Jordan said something along the lines of "Thom's knives are special."

 

http://www.theorylan...ain.php?i=36#55

 

BRANDON SANDERSON (8 JANUARY 2011)

 

Much has been made of the blue flash when Thom fights the Fade. I can't say what it was, but it's not what most seem to think.

 

 

Signing reports

 

http://www.theorylan...ain.php?i=139#2

 

RUHIRA SEDAI

 

You've said before that the blue flashes during the fight with the Myrddraal in Whitebridge were not from Thom's daggers. What were they from?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

RAFO!!!

 

SORILEA

 

Wow... I agreed with Ruhira that I really thought we should get an answer to this.

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

RJ went on to explain that there are three types of ideas that are floating around in his head about the series. Things that he must include, because they are the major turning points for a character, storyline, etc; things he wants to include, because he thinks they give a little more in depth knowledge about a character, etc; and things that would be nice to include. Unfortunately he says that the explanation regarding Thom's daggers falls into the last category. But, on the chance that he will get to include it, he doesn't want to give away anything. So hopefully, this means that at some point, we will revisit Whitebridge and find out some more about it, as well as what the flashes were from.

 

http://www.theorylan...in.php?i=135#31

 

MALIVAR

 

Do Myrddraal blades flash blue lightning regardless of the blades they strike? Or does it require a power wrought blade? If so, why do the two Fades fighting in the Stone make the flashes?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Myrddraal blades produce the blue lightning only when they strike their own kind of blade or a blade wrought with the One Power, not simple steel.

 

 

http://www.theorylan...in.php?i=135#37

 

MALIVAR

 

If a Fade's blade will not produce lightning except against other Thakandar-wrought blades, and power-wrought blades, why do Thom's daggers produce it when he attacks the Fade at Whitebridge?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Thom's daggers did not produce the effect. It was produced before Thom reached the Fade.

 

http://www.theorylan...in.php?i=186#36

 

NY, NY

 

Why was there a blue light flashing when Thom met the Fade in Whitebridge?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Because Thom's best knives are very special indeed.

 

 

http://www.theorylan...ain.php?i=196#3

 

ISABEL

 

I started asking him about the two conflicting chats [regarding Thom's knives and the scene with the Mryddraal at Whitebridge in The Eye of the World]. The question was already sent to him, but he declined to answer it for the question and answer session. I was wondering about why he would do it, but as you might guess when reading his answer. It's because it's a RAFO question.

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Both answers on the chat are RIGHT!!!! He knows exactly how Thom managed to escape with only a limp and how he managed to survive that. But he might use it in the next book and doesn't want to give away anything. So we have to do it with the knowledge that both answers, although seemingly conflicting, are both CORRECT.

Edited by FarShainMael

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There is another possibility that most people tend to ignore.

1. There is nothing Special about Thom's DAGGERS.

2. There is something Special about Thom's KNIVES

3. Daggers are different from knives.

:rolleyes:

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There is another possibility that most people tend to ignore.

1. There is nothing Special about Thom's DAGGERS.

2. There is something Special about Thom's KNIVES

3. Daggers are different from knives.

:rolleyes:

 

Soo... Thom threw one of his PW-knives into the fade's scabbard to jam it half drawn (as I believe it's described), that created the blue flash before Thom actually reached the fade with the daggers?!

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There is another possibility that most people tend to ignore.

1. There is nothing Special about Thom's DAGGERS.

2. There is something Special about Thom's KNIVES

3. Daggers are different from knives.

:rolleyes:

 

nice one.. :biggrin:

 

And there's something special about his best knives.........

Edited by FarShainMael

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Has anyone ever discussed the possibility that they were ter'angreal that produced lightning?

 

Wouldn't he had used that before to save them? Unless of course it's close range lightning in which case sure it could be, just would be a real left field reason. .

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One thing we all need to understand that in epic fantasy stories, everything (including plot, characters, the magic system, etc) are developed over a period. I think even the author is not very much clear about them. He just keeps on adding and refining the details to all these... (take example of LOTR mother of mordern fantasy novels)

So, IMHO this was just one of the irregularities of WOT. No need to speculate in detail.

 

On lighter note- maybe somebody snapped a picture of a shaggy old man fighting with a fade (you don't get to see this routinely!) :-D

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We have Lan state when examining Rand's sword atop the tower in TGH that power-wrought blades were forged by Aes Sedai, and Lan's own sword was a common soldier's sword, but there were other, finer weapons that generals and the like carried that (he alludes to being very powerful) that might be better off lost as they are. Rand's sword had a Heron mark, but no powers, something an officer or blade-trained lord might have carried. Yet we see Perrin's hammer actually burns the Trollocs when he hits them. So there were swords and likely knives/daggers that were like Ter'angreal that probably used the OP. I think that this is the thought process behind Tom's "Best" or his "Second Best" knives/daggers. I believe he mutters about losing his best taking down two Trollocs in the escape from Shadar Logoth. With Thom all about the balance and throwing his blades, perhaps his "second best" are not fit for throwing, but have a little extra "kick" if you will.

 

If you remember, there was no mention of a Fade from the people in White Bridge, and fires had damaged a lot of the buildings. Thom stated the Fade wasn't interested in him, that it took off after Rand and Mat and left him with his leg messed up. But Shadowman steel kills at the slightest wound, so how did Thom get hurt, and why no mention of the fade, and what caused the fire? A cow kicking over a lantern, or Lightning frying a Fade? My vote is crispy Fade.

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We have Lan state when examining Rand's sword atop the tower in TGH that power-wrought blades were forged by Aes Sedai, and Lan's own sword was a common soldier's sword, but there were other, finer weapons that generals and the like carried that (he alludes to being very powerful) that might be better off lost as they are. Rand's sword had a Heron mark, but no powers, something an officer or blade-trained lord might have carried. Yet we see Perrin's hammer actually burns the Trollocs when he hits them. So there were swords and likely knives/daggers that were like Ter'angreal that probably used the OP. I think that this is the thought process behind Tom's "Best" or his "Second Best" knives/daggers. I believe he mutters about losing his best taking down two Trollocs in the escape from Shadar Logoth. With Thom all about the balance and throwing his blades, perhaps his "second best" are not fit for throwing, but have a little extra "kick" if you will.

 

If you remember, there was no mention of a Fade from the people in White Bridge, and fires had damaged a lot of the buildings. Thom stated the Fade wasn't interested in him, that it took off after Rand and Mat and left him with his leg messed up. But Shadowman steel kills at the slightest wound, so how did Thom get hurt, and why no mention of the fade, and what caused the fire? A cow kicking over a lantern, or Lightning frying a Fade? My vote is crispy Fade.

 

I'd forgotten all about what Lan had said. It certainly opens up the possibilities but I think Thom would have told Mat at least if he was aware of extra properties. Maybe Moiraine will help him figure it out. I'm guessing that it would have been Thom's first hands on combat with those knives because they were his second best and wouldn't have fought shadowspawn before then. Maybe he's trying to figure it out still or doesn't realise. I just think it weird that if he killed the fade in Whitebridge, why would he lie to Rand and Mat about it taking off after them instead of telling them he got lucky and killed it.

 

I wonder if we will see any of these super weapons in the hands of darkfriends or dreadlords. And what about Justice? I wonder if Hawkwing knew of any extra properties and if that is what helped him achieve so much success in his campaigns. Very subtle foreshadowing that I hope we get to see.

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We have Lan state when examining Rand's sword atop the tower in TGH that power-wrought blades were forged by Aes Sedai, and Lan's own sword was a common soldier's sword, but there were other, finer weapons that generals and the like carried that (he alludes to being very powerful) that might be better off lost as they are. Rand's sword had a Heron mark, but no powers, something an officer or blade-trained lord might have carried. Yet we see Perrin's hammer actually burns the Trollocs when he hits them. So there were swords and likely knives/daggers that were like Ter'angreal that probably used the OP. I think that this is the thought process behind Tom's "Best" or his "Second Best" knives/daggers. I believe he mutters about losing his best taking down two Trollocs in the escape from Shadar Logoth. With Thom all about the balance and throwing his blades, perhaps his "second best" are not fit for throwing, but have a little extra "kick" if you will.

 

If you remember, there was no mention of a Fade from the people in White Bridge, and fires had damaged a lot of the buildings. Thom stated the Fade wasn't interested in him, that it took off after Rand and Mat and left him with his leg messed up. But Shadowman steel kills at the slightest wound, so how did Thom get hurt, and why no mention of the fade, and what caused the fire? A cow kicking over a lantern, or Lightning frying a Fade? My vote is crispy Fade.

 

I'd forgotten all about what Lan had said. It certainly opens up the possibilities but I think Thom would have told Mat at least if he was aware of extra properties. Maybe Moiraine will help him figure it out. I'm guessing that it would have been Thom's first hands on combat with those knives because they were his second best and wouldn't have fought shadowspawn before then. Maybe he's trying to figure it out still or doesn't realise. I just think it weird that if he killed the fade in Whitebridge, why would he lie to Rand and Mat about it taking off after them instead of telling them he got lucky and killed it.

 

I wonder if we will see any of these super weapons in the hands of darkfriends or dreadlords. And what about Justice? I wonder if Hawkwing knew of any extra properties and if that is what helped him achieve so much success in his campaigns. Very subtle foreshadowing that I hope we get to see.

 

 

I too wonder about the leg injury. I always assumed it broke and healed wrong, the fade kicked him in the shin.

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The lack of mention of the fade just means that the townspeople are afraid, and that fades have only been in children's stories and not real to them before.

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