Revenge of the Sith Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Wins!!

[Nyanna al'Meara]

Why do you have to hide DM??? *Kae thinks there is something very wrong with this*

 

Offtopic, but:

1)They hate me doing anything internet/freetime related, i.e. don’t like Facebook etc, and

2) I’m supposed to be doing Classical Studies, so shhhh

[Songstress]

Tress, are you thinking of his Alderaan reference? I think I see what you are getting at here.

 

I'm thinking of a heck of a lot of very specific references that a quick Google search made excruciatingly clear even for someone who's only seen Episode IV one time.

[Myndrunner]

Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor, Latin lex parsimoniae) is the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect.

 

Before we dissect this political smear campaign, let's remember that, like the quote above cites, the hypothesis which makes the fewest assumptions and offers the simplest explanation is often the right path. As I have stated before, a Jedi leads a simple life because a Jedi is not burdened with keeping track of all his lies.

 

Now then, I will attempt to wade through the specifics of this.....

 

I am most likely going to be killed for this one way or another, so I will make it as good as I can in hopes to try to stop this before it goes too far. I was going to try to hold off on this for one more day in order to get more proof if possible, but I have a strong feeling the Sith team is very close to winning this game and I may not have time to do that.

 

My strong hunch is that the quickest way for the Sith to win is for Lord Vader to rise - and I think we may only be one step away from that at this stage.

 

I think it's pretty clear by now that Ishy's all but outright confirmed his character is Anakin Skywalker, which means he's a significant danger to the town here if the conditions are met for him to be converted to Sith.

 

The first condition I'm pretty sure has been met - Ishy was very adamant about being the one to hammer Kate, who turned out to be Count Dooku.

 

The second condition I expect they're trying to fulfill is to identify and kill Amidala.

 

Actually, I had Ishy pegged as either Anakin or Yoda. His hammering of Kate with the assurance that he could not be recruited led me to believe one or the other. As of your casing he hadn't revealed, so in a sense, you forced his reveal.

 

Here's where I put my life on the line.

 

Mynd has been very aggressive, especially in night phase, about trying to get people to reveal. Much of what he has done N2 and so far D3 reads to me like fishing for Amidala to be outed.

 

He even brought up in this post that Amidala needs to be protected:

 

....blah blah blah blah.....click the timestamp for reference.....Amidalia...blah blah....

 

But here's where the logic doesn't make sense. If everyone reveals and Amidala and the healer are outed, the mafia can just kill the healer and remove Amidala's protection.

 

I believe I was staunch about only fellow Jedi revealing. As you cited later, I admitted that a mass reveal would have desperate consequences including placing our healer and Amidalala in a tough spot. My calling for reveals were only for my fellow Jedi.

 

You confirming you had the same powers as EP after he was pretty much forced to reveal them means nothing. I also don't think EP necessarily thinks you were vetted by this as much as you think he does. Your little antics in the CYoR game pretending you forgot which game you were posting in strike me as quite intentional to try to get EP on your side, setting up for your play here.

 

And as you're trying your hardest to implicate Mynd, that vets him in my book.

 

Perhaps that was the point.

 

But of course Mynd did lead her lynch, as he reminded us above. Stating you wouldn't have done that if you were scum, however, again, means nothing. Frankly, the whole of Day 2 reeks of a scum gambit to me, sacrificing Kate to vet Mynd and ensure that Anakin was able to be the hammer on Count Dooku to set the mafia up for a quick win.

 

In my experience as scum, unless I'm certain I'm going to win, I tend to hang back and let the townies choose who to lynch. Then I join in the middle providing *sufficient* reason. Mainly it's super crafty scum like Mynd, Red, Lily, Kivam, etc. who tend to lend/push lynches on someone.

 

First, according to your quote from Key, I am super crafty when I'm scum so I must be scum because I'm being super crafty. In what galaxy does that make any sense? You might as well say "He must be scum because if he's scum then he's scum!" I hope people would agree that I can be crafty as a town player as well.

 

Secondly, let's go back to Occam's Razor. You claim that twice I pushed a lynch on Kate to enact some kind of gambit. Essentially, you argue that lynching Kate made me look town in everyone's eyes, including Ishy's, way after I had already been vetted as Jedi, so that we could lose a mafia (one who otherwise was below the radar until I spoke up) on Day 2 in a 22 player game.

 

How about this explanation - I believed that Kate was scum based on her actions and proceeded to push a lynch on her.

 

Which of the above two explanations makes better sense?

 

Funny thing is, N2 Mynd and Ishy both had decided I was in their top 3 suspect lists:

 

I think I should do a full re-read tomorrow.

 

Another blip on my Sith radar. Anyone who announces that a re-read is in order after the death of a rather obvious Sith Scummie is high on my list. Songstress is there with Basel and Roo.

Tress and Basel head my list too.

Does anyone not read my posts? I was asking about Commander Cody and the clones turning on us pages ago!

 

I find it interesting that if Ishy is indeed Anakin, that he made sure he was the hammer for Dooku.

 

Songstress, Basel, and Roo remain at the top of my list.

 

But as of here...

 

Ironeyes, what do you mean "you all"?

 

You, Mynd, Ishy, and Wombat are the Mafia. And why would I know he's "referencing a past game" I didn't play in?

 

1) That I sincerely doubt.

 

2) Because he actually referred to it first here:

 

I love when scum fake claim the most obscure character they can find. I once claimed Sparkplug in a Transformers game when I was really Starscream! Almost got away with it too....until I was ratted out by Bumblebee!

 

 

... when indicated I sincerely doubted Mynd, Ishy and Wombat were the scum team, suddenly ALL the heat is off of me. Mynd is all over everyone else today demanding they answer questions about who they want to lynch and pushing other people to reveal, but he's mentioned me only once in all of his interrogations today, in the list of people who were not on Kate's lynch but who have been active in the game.

 

Why not question me and push me to reveal? Because it might just put me back on his case after D2 had thrown me off of it?

 

I admit, I could completely be on the wrong track here. I'm willing to look like an idiot if it saves the town in this game. I would offer to reveal here and now except that I think too many people already have, and they're effectively narrowing the field for the scum to find and pick off Amidala. If everyone thinks I'm completely off base, fine, make your argument to dissuade me. Just watch out for a quick scum backlash on me if I'm anywhere near on target.

 

(she votes me here)

 

Please point to the post where I stated that I no longer suspected Songstress as scum. The above green bolded is where I brought up how fishy Ishy was to hammer Kate. If such a move benefitted me in any way, it was rather foolish for me to bring it up like that. The last paragraph above is pretty sad realy. Songstress is acting like the town is about to lose the game and she is our hero swooping in to save us all....on Day 3 with one scum down. She even warns us to be wary of scum backlash. Would scum backlash be anything close to this very WOT we all had to read from Songstress? I think so. Scum aim to discredit and distract while scum-hunters deal in logic and reason.

 

Again....Occam's Razor. What makes more sense?

 

Let me bring up a couple of points that I was planning to make D2, before the Kate lynch derailed my train of thought...

 

One valid argument Kate made about Mynd, which he never responded to in that whole argument, was that his D1 and N1 play was very full of WIFOM and sowing confusion among the town. One reason I was planning to vote him D2 before all that went down was this:

 

Switching off my vote of Kate to Sakaea and later voting Lenlo.....twice mentioning how far away deadline was.

 

Mynd made a point twice of mentioning how far away the deadline was, and then suddenly... the day ended early. Immediately after that, he began the WIFOM about the day end.

 

Very interesting, I think we should hear from some folks on this.

 

One way to look at this is that the train on Lenlo was getting some heat, so it could be a protection of Lenlo. HOWEVER, it could also be the mafia's way of convincing us that Lenlo needed protecting. OR perhaps we were starting to question other players who are mafia and Lenlo was not.

 

Either way you look at it, I strongly doubt this was a town move. Unless that person would like to come forward and explain to us why this was in the best interest of the town.

 

To be honest, I think the real reason the day ended early is here:

 

 

unvote

 

Since no one is biting on Kate, I will move my vote to Sakaea for the same reason.

 

The attempt to get Kate lynched D1 failed, and the scum team had to abort and retry for D2, after setting things up so EP would be Kate's target and Mynd could use EP to vet himself as a town Jedi.

 

Not exactly sure what this is all about except this is where Songstress really screwed up. The question we should be asking ourselves (as I have highlighted in green) is that if this was such an important piece of info that she was chomping at the bit to share, why would Kate's lynch be so distracting? I believe that Songstress had that case ready to go but when I went after Kate, she couldn't mention it because it would look like she was defending Kate and when she flipped scum, Songstress would be next.

 

Remember, the only way that Songstress could have known Kate would flip scum is if she was scum as well. That is the only logical reason for Kate's lynch to be too distracting to post her thoughts.

 

I have to say Tress is making a lot of sense to me.

 

I found it strange how Mynd put a lot of pressure on me, then was suddenly very quick to accept my claim. Perhaps he was trying to force a mass reveal (which nearly happened) and find out who Amidala is?

 

I think we need answers from Mynd and Ishy, and I'd also like to hear what Basel has to say about their case against him

 

Roo, your reveal made sense. That character was Sakaea 1.0's Padwan. It doesn't mean I completely believe you at all, just that I moved on to another player. For a newbie to be so articulate in this specific gambit, I find your claim to be weakening by the minute. Maybe someday you will learn to stop doing what they tell you to do in the Scum QT and act as your own player.

[Basel Gill]

Secondly, let's go back to Occam's Razor. You claim that twice I pushed a lynch on Kate to enact some kind of gambit. Essentially, you argue that lynching Kate made me look town in everyone's eyes, including Ishy's, way after I had already been vetted as Jedi, so that we could lose a mafia (one who otherwise was below the radar until I spoke up) on Day 2 in a 22 player game.

 

Except that you were never vetted as Jedi, Mynd. You waited till EP announced just what Jedi could do in this game, and then you claimed you had the same powers. That proved nothing, and vetted nothing.

[Myndrunner]

Secondly, let's go back to Occam's Razor. You claim that twice I pushed a lynch on Kate to enact some kind of gambit. Essentially, you argue that lynching Kate made me look town in everyone's eyes, including Ishy's, way after I had already been vetted as Jedi, so that we could lose a mafia (one who otherwise was below the radar until I spoke up) on Day 2 in a 22 player game.

 

Except that you were never vetted as Jedi, Mynd. You waited till EP announced just what Jedi could do in this game, and then you claimed you had the same powers. That proved nothing, and vetted nothing.

 

Eternal Phoenix had no way of knowing that all Jedi have the same powers. Neither did I at that point, but when he revealed his powers, I noticed that they were the same as mine. This is when it began to occur to me that the Jedi all had the same options because it fit with our one shot stipulation. I would not have made this connection had I not been a Jedi. Even if I had the same powers as EP but was a Sith, I would not have made the connection that all Jedi have the same powers.

 

Bottom line: I could not have vetted EP or known that there was any connection to EP's powers with other Jedi if I had not been a Jedi with those powers myself.

[WWWwombat]

Mynd, please quote the post where you were "staunch" against a mass reveal.

[Darthe]

For those of you who think you get it, you seem to be on the right path. If it helps you out any, I have been crumbing since page eight.

[Myndrunner]

Ok Womby, here...

 

So we are revealing now are we? Just confirm that for me Mynd and I'll go along with it.

 

I hesitate to flat out encourage an all out reveal for the very concern Basel Gill brings up, although his motivation for doing so is that he himself is Sith and worries that he will be cornered once we all come forward. There are pros and cons to mass reveals and I can already hear Verbal's voice in my head as I suggest this.

 

On one hand, if we all reveal and quickly, it won't give the scum enough time to fake reveal and we can corner them. The Star Wars canon is one that is pretty clear on who is light and who is dark, with Anakin being the only exception. One would have a hard time arguing that Yoda is Sith or that Palpatine is good.

 

On the other hand, it exposes players who we may have needed to protect, such as Amidalia or our healer. Plus, mass reveals take a lot of the fun out of a game like this...unless you bluff Sparkplug when you are Starscream! That was epic! *pats self on back*

 

Still, the flaw in Basel Gill's argument is that once we know who the remaining mafia are, night kills become an annoyance during an otherwise guaranteed victory. At that point, who cares who the mafia kill since they all will be lynched eventually. Victory is assured at that point AND if a vulnerable player is revealed, they can also be protected by our healer. Nothing like tossing a bit of WIFOM back at the mafia in cases like these.

 

Finally, Arez al'Slopoke sounds like a Bitter Betty. Scum attempt to discredit scum-hunters and attack the person, calling them useless without providing anything helpful of their own. He claimed Jedi but now is nervous because if we do mass reveal, he will have to scour Wookipedia to find a reasonable yet lesser known Jedi to bluff.

 

So yeah, Len....I'd say in your case, since you are one of our potential lynches, you may as well reveal. I think with that, we can reach a pretty good consensus on who to lynch today.

Oh okay fair enough, I thought the picture was important. Barriss Offee.

 

Works for me. Welcome to the Jedi order. Sucks about Sakaea, maybe you can avenge him.

 

I don't feel like starting in on Basel Gill just yet, but when I do, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Let's wait until we get closer to deadline for that party.

 

Perhaps all of us Jedi should come forward since the Roo is out of the bag, so to speak, on how we could all identify each other. Ishy and I will hold off on revealing our identities until our brothers and sisters have named themselves......though I think you all can pretty much guess who we are.

 

Now then, out of all of that, you focused on THAT part of my reply?!

[Basel Gill]

For those of you who think you get it, you seem to be on the right path. If it helps you out any, I have been crumbing since page eight.

 

Geez, every time I try breadcrumbing my character in a game, no one ever catches it. I think in Kae's X-Men game I dropped like 3 or 4 Phoenix hints and nobody ever showed a sign of getting it.

[Songstress]

Ok Womby, here...

 

So we are revealing now are we? Just confirm that for me Mynd and I'll go along with it.

 

I hesitate to flat out encourage an all out reveal for the very concern Basel Gill brings up, although his motivation for doing so is that he himself is Sith and worries that he will be cornered once we all come forward. There are pros and cons to mass reveals and I can already hear Verbal's voice in my head as I suggest this.

 

On one hand, if we all reveal and quickly, it won't give the scum enough time to fake reveal and we can corner them. The Star Wars canon is one that is pretty clear on who is light and who is dark, with Anakin being the only exception. One would have a hard time arguing that Yoda is Sith or that Palpatine is good.

 

On the other hand, it exposes players who we may have needed to protect, such as Amidalia or our healer. Plus, mass reveals take a lot of the fun out of a game like this...unless you bluff Sparkplug when you are Starscream! That was epic! *pats self on back*

 

Still, the flaw in Basel Gill's argument is that once we know who the remaining mafia are, night kills become an annoyance during an otherwise guaranteed victory. At that point, who cares who the mafia kill since they all will be lynched eventually. Victory is assured at that point AND if a vulnerable player is revealed, they can also be protected by our healer. Nothing like tossing a bit of WIFOM back at the mafia in cases like these.

 

Finally, Arez al'Slopoke sounds like a Bitter Betty. Scum attempt to discredit scum-hunters and attack the person, calling them useless without providing anything helpful of their own. He claimed Jedi but now is nervous because if we do mass reveal, he will have to scour Wookipedia to find a reasonable yet lesser known Jedi to bluff.

 

So yeah, Len....I'd say in your case, since you are one of our potential lynches, you may as well reveal. I think with that, we can reach a pretty good consensus on who to lynch today.

Oh okay fair enough, I thought the picture was important. Barriss Offee.

 

Works for me. Welcome to the Jedi order. Sucks about Sakaea, maybe you can avenge him.

 

I don't feel like starting in on Basel Gill just yet, but when I do, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Let's wait until we get closer to deadline for that party.

 

Perhaps all of us Jedi should come forward since the Roo is out of the bag, so to speak, on how we could all identify each other. Ishy and I will hold off on revealing our identities until our brothers and sisters have named themselves......though I think you all can pretty much guess who we are.

 

Now then, out of all of that, you focused on THAT part of my reply?!

 

That's hardly staunch opposition to a mass reveal, Mynd. If anything, it's hedging and suggesting it would be beneficial. Would you like me to quote the posts where you clearly are fishing for Amidala to reveal?

[WWWwombat]

Let's break some of Mynd's rhetoric down.

 

So we are revealing now are we? Just confirm that for me Mynd and I'll go along with it.

 

I hesitate to flat out encourage an all out reveal for the very concern Basel Gill brings up, although his motivation for doing so is that he himself is Sith and worries that he will be cornered once we all come forward. There are pros and cons to mass reveals and I can already hear Verbal's voice in my head as I suggest this.

 

He "hesitates" to encourage an all out reveal. Let's see how hesitant the rest of his post is.

 

On one hand, if we all reveal and quickly, it won't give the scum enough time to fake reveal and we can corner them. The Star Wars canon is one that is pretty clear on who is light and who is dark, with Anakin being the only exception. One would have a hard time arguing that Yoda is Sith or that Palpatine is good.

 

Pros for a mass reveal.

 

On the other hand, it exposes players who we may have needed to protect, such as Amidalia or our healer. Plus, mass reveals take a lot of the fun out of a game like this...unless you bluff Sparkplug when you are Starscream! That was epic! *pats self on back*

 

Still, the flaw in Basel Gill's argument is that once we know who the remaining mafia are, night kills become an annoyance during an otherwise guaranteed victory. At that point, who cares who the mafia kill since they all will be lynched eventually. Victory is assured at that point AND if a vulnerable player is revealed, they can also be protected by our healer. Nothing like tossing a bit of WIFOM back at the mafia in cases like these.

 

Finally, Arez al'Slopoke sounds like a Bitter Betty. Scum attempt to discredit scum-hunters and attack the person, calling them useless without providing anything helpful of their own. He claimed Jedi but now is nervous because if we do mass reveal, he will have to scour Wookipedia to find a reasonable yet lesser known Jedi to bluff.

 

So yeah, Len....I'd say in your case, since you are one of our potential lynches, you may as well reveal. I think with that, we can reach a pretty good consensus on who to lynch today.

 

So basically, the biggest drawbacks to mass revealing according to Mynd are that we could put our healer and/or Padme in bad spots and that it wouldn't be fun because it would make the game too easy. The latter is an obvious strawman and Mynd proceeds to stealthily counter the former in the second bolded section. He pretty much implies that a mass reveal means an automatic town win.

[WWWwombat]

unvote

Vote: Mynd

[Myndrunner]

I wasn't fishing for her reveal at all. Keyholder's reaction to Ironeyes led me to believe that she was Amadalia, to which I questioned why she would be so half-assed about it.

 

Songstress, your case against me is weak. I'm a vetted Jedi player who has done nothing but try and hunt scum this entire game and eliminate those who are not scum so we don't get a mislynch. I get it, it sucks when a mass reveal is pushed in a game with such contrasting characters. No one wants to reveal as Palpatine, but you are really grasping at straws here.

[Myndrunner]

Let's break some of Mynd's rhetoric down.

 

So we are revealing now are we? Just confirm that for me Mynd and I'll go along with it.

 

I hesitate to flat out encourage an all out reveal for the very concern Basel Gill brings up, although his motivation for doing so is that he himself is Sith and worries that he will be cornered once we all come forward. There are pros and cons to mass reveals and I can already hear Verbal's voice in my head as I suggest this.

 

He "hesitates" to encourage an all out reveal. Let's see how hesitant the rest of his post is.

 

On one hand, if we all reveal and quickly, it won't give the scum enough time to fake reveal and we can corner them. The Star Wars canon is one that is pretty clear on who is light and who is dark, with Anakin being the only exception. One would have a hard time arguing that Yoda is Sith or that Palpatine is good.

 

Pros for a mass reveal.

 

On the other hand, it exposes players who we may have needed to protect, such as Amidalia or our healer. Plus, mass reveals take a lot of the fun out of a game like this...unless you bluff Sparkplug when you are Starscream! That was epic! *pats self on back*

 

Still, the flaw in Basel Gill's argument is that once we know who the remaining mafia are, night kills become an annoyance during an otherwise guaranteed victory. At that point, who cares who the mafia kill since they all will be lynched eventually. Victory is assured at that point AND if a vulnerable player is revealed, they can also be protected by our healer. Nothing like tossing a bit of WIFOM back at the mafia in cases like these.

 

Finally, Arez al'Slopoke sounds like a Bitter Betty. Scum attempt to discredit scum-hunters and attack the person, calling them useless without providing anything helpful of their own. He claimed Jedi but now is nervous because if we do mass reveal, he will have to scour Wookipedia to find a reasonable yet lesser known Jedi to bluff.

 

So yeah, Len....I'd say in your case, since you are one of our potential lynches, you may as well reveal. I think with that, we can reach a pretty good consensus on who to lynch today.

 

So basically, the biggest drawbacks to mass revealing according to Mynd are that we could put our healer and/or Padme in bad spots and that it wouldn't be fun because it would make the game too easy. The latter is an obvious strawman and Mynd proceeds to stealthily counter the former in the second bolded section. He pretty much implies that a mass reveal means an automatic town win.

 

Wombat. Explain to us how I was the first to know that EP was a Jedi and that all Jedi had the same powers.

[John E. Kelley]

Curiouser and curiouser. Have the Sith decided that now is the time to make their move?

[Myndrunner]

Curiouser and curiouser. Have the Sith decided that now is the time to make their move?

 

It got quiet all of a sudden. A pow wow on the Mafia QT?

[WWWwombat]

Because you also have those powers, perhaps? That doesn't make you light side though. Dooku was a Jedi Master before his fall iirc, so he (and the rest of the Sith) might know a lot about Jedi. Furthermore, I find the claim of Ki-Adi-Mundi to be suspicious. If I were modding this game I wouldn't allow character reveals, but failing that, I would leave out one or two of the less known (but still reasonably important) members of the High Council (e.g. Plo Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Kit Fisto) and give them to the mafia as fake claims. The only claims I am going to trust 99.9% at this point are Yoda and Mace Windu.

[Myndrunner]

Because you also have those powers, perhaps? That doesn't make you light side though. Dooku was a Jedi Master before his fall iirc, so he (and the rest of the Sith) might know a lot about Jedi. Furthermore, I find the claim of Ki-Adi-Mundi to be suspicious. If I were modding this game I wouldn't allow character reveals, but failing that, I would leave out one or two of the less known (but still reasonably important) members of the High Council (e.g. Plo Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Kit Fisto) and give them to the mafia as fake claims. The only claims I am going to trust 99.9% at this point are Yoda and Mace Windu.

 

Wombat - if I were Sith, I would not have pieced together that all of the Jedi have the same powers. I would have instead have assumed that I was the Sith counterpart to Eternal Phoenix. Remember that I was the first to confirm at EP was telling the truth about his Jedi Powers. I had no way of knowing that the other Jedi were similar if I were Sith - in fact, this was the final piece in my case against Kate - she pushed a lynch on EP after he revealed his powers - any other Jedi would know he was telling the truth.

 

If you are not scum yourself, you need to step back and put that up to logic.

 

The sun might not come up tomorrow, but the evidence points to it likely happening.

[WWWwombat]

Green group, stick to sector 47!

[Myndrunner]

Green group, stick to sector 47!

 

It is a trap, but I'm not the one trying to set it.

[Songstress]

@ Mynd, you state my case is weak, but you've ignored the majority of it.

 

You never addressed my point that it's likely that the quickest way for the Sith to win was to recruit Anakin and that most likely all they need to do is to find and kill Amidala to accomplish that. All you did with that was accuse me of forcing Ishy's reveal because you thought he might be Yoda. Riiiiight.

 

As for your not fishing for Amidala...

 

Why would any town player have a win condition other than that of eliminating the threats?

 

Because this is an advanced game and the win condition is at the mod's discretion. I have played in a few other games where mine, or someone else's, win condition was something *other* than the major threat being eliminated. You are good enough at mafia and have been in enough games to probably have experienced that as well.

You can call him town, scum, solo-win, or a flaming ewok for all I care - win conditions are much more vital than a player's "alignment" in any game. Talking down to me in the manner bolded above doesn't make any sense, especially since no one is attacking you. The moment he mentioned his win condition, you took a defensive position, Miss Portman. Odd that you would act so obvious about it, making YOU our biggest target....and Night 2 is still in progress.

 

The thing is, Ironeyes admits that (if we are to believe his win condition) he doesn't give a rats ass about anyone else but Amidala. That means he doesn't have the best interest of the town as a whole. If his win condition is true, then 4 mafia and 4 town mean the mafia win as well as Ironeyes if Amidalia is one of the remaining town.

 

Also, I'm not saying that I believe his claim, just that the win condition is somewhat believable to me.

 

It is believable to you because you are Queen Amidalia, am I correct? Stop playing games, the mafia have seen it too.

Why would any town player have a win condition other than that of eliminating the threats?

 

Because this is an advanced game and the win condition is at the mod's discretion. I have played in a few other games where mine, or someone else's, win condition was something *other* than the major threat being eliminated. You are good enough at mafia and have been in enough games to probably have experienced that as well.

You can call him town, scum, solo-win, or a flaming ewok for all I care - win conditions are much more vital than a player's "alignment" in any game. Talking down to me in the manner bolded above doesn't make any sense, especially since no one is attacking you. The moment he mentioned his win condition, you took a defensive position, Miss Portman. Odd that you would act so obvious about it, making YOU our biggest target....and Night 2 is still in progress.

 

Sorry love, but I wasn't attempting to talk down to you with that. Read it again as a normal statement.

 

The thing is, Ironeyes admits that (if we are to believe his win condition) he doesn't give a rats ass about anyone else but Amidala. That means he doesn't have the best interest of the town as a whole. If his win condition is true, then 4 mafia and 4 town mean the mafia win as well as Ironeyes if Amidalia is one of the remaining town.

 

That is only if the mafia have to equal the number to the town. What if they have to be more than the town?

 

It is believable to you because you are Queen Amidalia, am I correct? Stop playing games, the mafia have seen it too.

 

Why the blatant rolefishing? Whether I am, or I am not, why would I tell the mafia straight out on the board?

 

It doesn't exactly count as role-fishing if you've pretty much revealed it in the first place. The target on Key's back was put there by Key herself. Suddenly believing Ironeyes the moment he mentions his (alleged) win condition and then staunchly defending him from that point on, even the dullest of mafia players would figure out that that meant.

 

To correct Arez al'Loop's statement, no one is threatening lynch here. Key is a target now by the Mafia because of Ironeyes statement causing Key's reaction. Honestly, I am not buying any of it. This all has to bank on whether or not Key and Ironeyes are indeed telling the truth.

 

Suppose Ironeyes is lying and is really Darth Sidious. He kills Amidalia and that converts Anakin to the dark side. If Key is really Amadaladingdong then she has just revealed herself by suddenly defending Ironeyes. Easy pickings for the mafia at this point.

 

Suppose Ironeyes is telling the truth. What motivation does he have for the town to win if he only needs to make sure Amidalia is safe? As I stated before, even if the mafia outnumber the town, the end result for Ironeyes is the same so long as Amidalia is alive at endgame.

 

The thing is, we Jedi know who we are and I've received a message from one of my fellow Jedi informing me of the identity of another non-jedi townie, our healer if you will. The Mafia are running out of room to hide. If Key is really Amidalia, and Ironeyes is really who he says, then we've narrowed down quite a bit.

Of course they would. But I've seen all the breadcrumbing he's been doing. And its pretty good breadcrumbing too :P

 

My experience with the term breadcrumbing means leading people to reach a conclusion based on small hints. This can be used by town and mafia alike.

 

What are your thoughts on the whole exchange with Ironeyes and Keyholder?

Yes well the conclusion it's reached is in my eyes definitely NOT mafia.

 

Hmmm I can't really say as I'm unsure...if Ironeyes is really what he says, well thats good for Amidala. I don't think Keyho is Miss Portman however, and that makes me suspect her, but again not on any grounds as I dont believe she was hinting that she was. And yet you jumped on a statement she made and elaborated on it to make her look like Amidala.

 

Which makes me eye YOU in quite a doubtful way.

 

Read that exchange again. Kate stopped dead in her tracks when Ironeyes claimed his character and win condition, which isn't exactly pro-town. To me, that was a huge tell that she was likely her.

 

Any mafia team worth their salt would have read the same thing. I don't believe in half-claims. You don't know who is gonna read it and who isn't. It should be pretty apparent that I am Jedi, which also factors in Kate's lynch.

 

In a typical game, I would fear anyone who was 100% sure of my alignment; however, at this point, I think I can be safely vetted by my fellow Jedi. I'm also pretty sure who the healer is, and they chose their target well.

 

Nyanna, what are your thoughts on Roo?

 

For not fishing for Amidala's identity, you certainly pointed out your assumption that Key was claiming her quite a lot, as if you were daring someone else to deny it.

 

And note that your post suggesting only that all Jedi reveal was *before* your post talking about the pros and cons of a mass reveal, not after.

 

You glossed over my point about D1 twice pointing out how far away the deadline was, then the WIFOM as soon as the day ended early. That was the point I was planning to make D2, and the only reason I didn't attempt to make that case was that I was absolutely exhausted Thursday night due to Ishy keeping me up being chatty nearly all night Wednesday, then being stuck at work for 10 hours on Friday with no access to DM except from my phone during breaks and lunch.

 

My breaks are 10 minutes maxiumum, and I normally don't have time to even finish reading game updates by the time break is over. Lunch I had 1/2 an hour, during which I also had to drive somewhere to get food and drive back to the office, and eat... and I might have had a chance to place a vote during that break, except the vote I'd planned to make suddenly looked very wrong. By the time I got home from work I was thrown off my case and assuming you were vetted as town and all was well, hence my post thanking Ishy for keeping me from making a huge mistake.

 

It was your continued pressing for reveals and the research I did last night to try to understand who the character hints were referring to that made me consider that we might be very close to a town loss if Amidala dies, and that all of Day 2 might just have been a gambit to set that up.

 

Occam's razor notwithstanding, you've been patting yourself on the back publicly for your clever play in other games (Starscream claiming to be Sparkplug), and I do think you are very much capable of coming up with this complex of a plot to get a quick win.

 

And again, you are not necessarily vetted as a town Jedi. You are relying on your vetting of EP and your leading Kate's lynch to vet you, and I've addressed why both of those points do not suffice. Say what you like about having no way to know that all Jedi had the same powers if you were Sith, Kate seemed to have figured it out, and it makes complete sense to me that as a Sith, you would easily have been able to assume that a townie who claimed the same kind of powers you had was a Jedi, and that all Jedi would have similar abilities.

 

And one more thing, since you also ignored this the first time:

 

EP, as I have in no way slipped up and acted all Jedi-ish in another game, it would behoove you to use your communicative ability with one of your fellow Jedi. I am pretty good at reading between the lines, but if you and I can join up with a third Knight, or even a pad-wan, we should have the makings of a makeshift mason team.

 

Please, I do not believe for a second that your "slip" in the CYoR game was anything but intentional.

[Basel Gill]

Because you also have those powers, perhaps? That doesn't make you light side though. Dooku was a Jedi Master before his fall iirc, so he (and the rest of the Sith) might know a lot about Jedi. Furthermore, I find the claim of Ki-Adi-Mundi to be suspicious. If I were modding this game I wouldn't allow character reveals, but failing that, I would leave out one or two of the less known (but still reasonably important) members of the High Council (e.g. Plo Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Kit Fisto) and give them to the mafia as fake claims. The only claims I am going to trust 99.9% at this point are Yoda and Mace Windu.

 

Wombat - if I were Sith, I would not have pieced together that all of the Jedi have the same powers. I would have instead have assumed that I was the Sith counterpart to Eternal Phoenix. Remember that I was the first to confirm at EP was telling the truth about his Jedi Powers. I had no way of knowing that the other Jedi were similar if I were Sith - in fact, this was the final piece in my case against Kate - she pushed a lynch on EP after he revealed his powers - any other Jedi would know he was telling the truth.

 

If you are not scum yourself, you need to step back and put that up to logic.

 

The sun might not come up tomorrow, but the evidence points to it likely happening.

 

And here Mynd argues how scum would do this, so that he can point out how he is doing the exact opposite. This proves nothing. It's a fairly obvious scum tactic to take one course of action and then argue on-thread that scum would never do what they have in fact been doing.

[Basel Gill]

Reply to Tress's nija post on me: I am also curious as to Mynd's answers to the points you have raised. He seems to be dodging the issue on some of them.

[WWWwombat]

We can't repel WIFOM of that magnitude!

[John E. Kelley]

I still don't see the whole doom and gloom over Amadalia in particular. Obviously, losing any town-allied role is bad, but why is her's so much worse than any other? You're all assuming that she's Doc or has some role to play in my recruitment. I've already addressed the latter, it's a non-factor, and I still believe if anyone is the doc,it's Artoo. When did Natalie P. ever exhibit even the slightest medical tendencies in the movies? I certainly never saw any.

 

You're all calling Mynd out for trying to draw out Amadalia, but so what? If anything Amadalia is vanilla, because I sure as hell can't see any role she would fit into. If you think Mynd is scum, find and dandy, make your case. But if you saying he's trying to draw out this super town power role, then I'm calling bullshit. If Amadalia is even in the game, no way does she have a role.