Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Guest Egwene

one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

spigots or caudrens  

114 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. spigots or caudrens

    • spigots
      24
    • caudrens
      23
    • pie spoon
      45
    • washer woman. shaped washer.
      28


Recommended Posts

Guest Egwene

:lol: reyler, I think that's the best alternative write-up of that scene that I have read sofar :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried to read all of the pages, but after the 3rd page, i almost fell asleep. If anyone reads alll of this in one sitting, please tell me. Then i can add them to my list of crazies. :wink:

 

I don't belive it was Shadar Haran because I think he is relativley new myrrdral, and when Moghedien was summoned to SG, she never heard of a myrrdral behaving like that. If she didn't know about him, then i doubt Asmo did. I assume Asmo knew his killer because of the way he said his final words, and i don't think he knew Shadar Haran.

 

Some evidence against Moridin could be that whenever RJ has a speacial word, it is usually italicize. I think that RJ would of Capitalized Death if it WAs indeed Mory. Probably flimsy evidence though... :?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I highly doubt that it is Graendel because SO MANY people beleive that, and hold to it, and RJ said that a very small # of people had the right theory, and my theory, along with some freinds(who helped me reach this)(alot) is that Fain did it. He was In the right place, and he has motive. His motive is the close link he has with Rand, and with the Shadar Logoth dagger *poof* instant death(or near enough) and in a city it wouldnt be hard to hide the body. At night, drag him into an abbandoned house, and in 5-1,000 years, someone will buy the house and *squeel*!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, Cousin.

 

From Dragoncon 2005, cited on wotmania.com here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=101

 

Question: Would you please name one character who did not kill Asmodean? Will you please name one of the following: Lanfear, Graendal, Moridin, Shaidar Haran, Padan Fain, Semirhage, Demandred, Mazrim Taim, Slayer. I thank you for your mercy and if you can please explain why they didn’t do it that would be a nice touch.

 

Jordan: Padan Fain didn’t because he wasn’t in the right place at the right time. He would have if he had been in the right place at the right time, but he wasn’t.

 

Fain is off the list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I highly doubt that it is Graendel because SO MANY people beleive that and RJ said that a very small number of people had the right theory
It was a long time ago that he said that, and apparently Graendal wasn't even on the radar for most people at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye. From what I've heard from folks involved in the WoT community at the time he said that, Lanfear and Slayer were the two most popular suspects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And frankly, stronger cases for Lanfear, Moiraine, Slayer, Fain, and others could have been made right after TFoH was published. It is information in the succeeding books that establishes the clues given within the text of TFoH as firmly pointing to Graendal. In other words, the clues are all there in TFoH, but the things that happen in the later books make them stand out more clearly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I've been away a for a year and the Asmodean thread has grown to over 130 pages.

 

Do you have any idea how long it will take me to catch back up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

0.0 seconds.

 

The contenders are all the same. The arguments are all the same. The muleheadedness on all sides is still the same.

 

This is still the thread where everybody talks AT each other and nobody talks TO each other.

 

See... ya didn't miss a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This must be one of RJ's favorite ways to torture his fandom. I do pray that one day he'll let us know lol.

 

For the record I think it is Grendal, not because it's obvious but through a process of elimination. Clearly who dunnit was not obvious to us at the time of reading tFoH. I agree though with the post mentioning Lanfear and Slayer as formely popular candidates, I remember being very active in the WoT forums and those being the leading candidates with very few thinking it was Grendal, most thinking she was too chicken to do something like that.

 

At first I couldn't figure out who could have done it since I was sure even if Lanfear got out ASAP that it still would have taken to long. Plus if she DID do it then why hide herself for the next several books? Same goes for Moriane and KoD shows us she's still with the Finn's.

 

I think a concivable scenario of Grendal either checking up in Rahvin or meeting with them, they were afterall conspiring together during tFoH and staying to see the aftermath of what happens to Rahvin and just being in the right place at the right time to take advantage of getting rid of a Traitor for the DO.

 

WH also shows Grendal skulking around Illian with Rand still there, so it would seem Grendal is willing to take some risks. It's also been pointed out that everyone Grendal conspires with ends up dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. It's been torture.

 

Couple holes in your logic though -

 

Illian and Caemlyn are apples and oranges.

 

Sam had bragged about the stuff he'd found in Ebou Dar. Everyone else was bemoaning the fact that none of them had brought anything useful when they went to SG and got trapped 3000+ years ago, and how none of them had found anything useful since.

 

Sam had GOODIES. Rahvin had bubkis, zip, zilch, nada, nothing, zero and everyone already knew that.

 

If Lanfear and Slayer were the BIG contenders soon after FoH came out, what does that tell you about Graendal being at all "obvious" or even likely? Exactly. She isn't and she didn't. Kill Asmo, that is. It's Jordan who has conducted the process of elimination for us through what he has revealed in Forsaken POV's.

 

Two things stand out with respect to Graendal in those:

1. She has an alibi.

2. She'd pack up and abandon everything she has built so far rather than face Rand.

 

And, it's far more that all of those Forsaken, other than Lanfear, who have encountered Rand, have died. Graendal just being one of those who hasn't stepped into the crosshairs, yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is Aviendha. She hates Asmodean and of course is an aiel. Asmodean himself knows Aviendha, explaining he recognised his killer.

 

Sorry if this doesn't make sense, but I think it is Aviendha who found out who Asmodean is. (I guess she found out during the fight in Caemlin, and she doesn't want to take any risk)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I changed my mind. I think it was Mat. See, Mat found out that Natael was Asmodean through a subliminal link to the Aelfinn. Then he reached the mistaken conclusion that Asmodean had instruced Melindhra to kill him, and pin it on Sammael. So he followed Asmo out of the garden, pushed past him through the door, causing the "You?" then wrapped the leather cord of his ter'angreal around Asmo's throat, causing the "No!" which was cut off as Mat jerked on the cord, breaking Asmo's neck. That the "how" ... the Dark One couldn't circumvent the ter'angreal to get at Asmo. Then Mat disposed of the body by burying it in the castle midden. Thats the "where". The midden stinks so much that even after Mat took the ter'angreal back, the neat freak Shai'tan wouldn't go near the stinky midden heap.

 

We know Mat like to bury stuff. Look at the a'dams in KoD!

 

And, the strongest point of all ....

 

 

WE KNOW MAT WAS IN THE PALACE!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sarcasm aside, Robert, you do make a good point.

 

IF ( and I still say, that no matter what Rand thought he didn't ) Asmo had channeled during that fight, Mat and Aviendha were the ones best placed to notice, and draw the proper conclusion about who he really was.

 

One, or the other, or both acting together, COULD conceivably have killed him.

 

I don't believe it, but it is every bit as possible as any Forsaken gating in, doing it and gating out again without being detected.

 

Lanfear or Slayer could have gotten in and out via T'A'R. Shaidar Haran via any convenient shadow. All had means and motive ( SH being a partial embodiment of the DO ). Since we meet him on the very next day in the Prologue to LoC, he obviously already existed, we just didn't know his name yet.

 

Point being, that if we're going to go by what COULD be possible, we get nowhere, because too many suspects qualify on that basis. Thus we have to move beyond COULD to WHAT WOULD BE MOST LIKELY.

 

And, I'll never see that as being Graendal. I will, however, support anyone who wants to make a case for her being Slayer's mystery employer - that's consistent with her MO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I changed my mind. I think it was Mat. See' date=' Mat found out that Natael was Asmodean through a subliminal link to the Aelfinn. Then he reached the mistaken conclusion that Asmodean had instruced Melindhra to kill him, and pin it on Sammael. So he followed Asmo out of the garden, pushed past him through the door, causing the "You?" then wrapped the leather cord of his ter'angreal around Asmo's throat, causing the "No!" which was cut off as Mat jerked on the cord, breaking Asmo's neck. That the "how" ... the Dark One couldn't circumvent the ter'angreal to get at Asmo. Then Mat disposed of the body by burying it in the castle midden. Thats the "where". The midden stinks so much that even after Mat took the ter'angreal back, the neat freak Shai'tan wouldn't go near the stinky midden heap.

 

We know Mat like to bury stuff. Look at the a'dams in KoD!

 

And, the strongest point of all ....

 

 

WE KNOW MAT WAS IN THE PALACE!!!!!![/quote']

 

 

You are SSSSOOOO close Robert! You have:

1. The right person - Mat

2. The right place - In the Palace

3. The right why - he saw Asmodean Channel.

 

But not the how.

 

Remember, Mat saw Rand Balefire the Shadowhounds through the hole they chewed in the door.

 

Mat is a secret Channeler! He Balefired Asmodean producing the fading "No". That is also why Mat is so lucky - He Cheats!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enough with the crazy theories. It5 should be quite obvious who killed Asmo. There is only one person who provably had the opportunity to kill him...Asmo himself. All the peices fit together - you can see the guy was scared, clearly he was literally scared of his own reflection. He comes across a mirror, panocs, balefires himself, and that's it. The how is obvious - the balefire - but the where needs a bit more explaining. Because the balefire was fired at a mirror, and because of various nasty effects associated with mirrors, which Jordan hasn't bothered to reveal because he was distracted by the description of a lovely dress and how someone had done their hair, Asmo didn't die in the real world, he died in the mirror. Somewhere in the palace is a mirror in which Asmo's death is perpetually reflected. All of this is not only quite clearly in the text, there is a microdot concealed in the dot of the first i of page 272 of Lord of Chaos. It isn't even a mystery anymore, it was quite clearly suicide. The only question now remaining is who put the mirror there in the first place. But that is a theory for another day.

 

On a side note, in the other Asmo thread, I asked which candidate needs the fewest assumptions to give them Means, Motive, Opportunity, Recognisability, and the ability to dispose of the body. The only assumption i could think of for Graendal was a reason fo her to go to Caemlyn in the first place. So far, no replies, but I would appreciate feedback from all you mortals.

 

Also:

And, I'll never see that as being Graendal.

Even if Jordan says so?
Especially not if Young Mr Jordan says so. The man obviously can't be trusted to tell the truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that Graendal needs the fewest assumptions; as you said we just have to put her in Caemlyn. She may not have the most compelling motive in a narrative sense, but she's the only one who doesn't have any huge hurdles to overcome in order to be there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think Robert Jordan will just leave all of you desperados out there hanging....just for the heck of it!

 

You know, there was a time when this was my nightmare, but at this point I almost think it would be a relief. That way, I could hold to whatever I personally think fits best within the story, with no regard to any arguments, theories, or statements made by RJ himself. I know what I think, and I like how it fits with what I've read, and I have no desire to hold my thoughts up to ridicule.

 

It's kinda like the whole "who killed Adeleas" question. I found the resolution of that plot thread to be a bit anticlimactic. On that particular mystery I didn't really have a personal theory, but several of the ones floating around were far more resonant to me than the resolution in KoD turned out to be, and I was disappointed.

 

If this one is left unresolved, I don't think I'd complain.

 

*ducks out of the way of rotten vegetables flying at face*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
not sure where Rand was at the time but my bet is on RAND *Shrug*
He was in a meeting with Davram Bashere at the end of the previous scene. He also expresses ignorance of Asmo's fate at a later date' date=' believing him to have run off.

 

On a side note:

0.0 seconds.

 

The contenders are all the same. The arguments are all the same. The muleheadedness on all sides is still the same.

 

This is still the thread where everybody talks AT each other and nobody talks TO each other.

 

See... ya didn't miss a thing.

I agree with this, to an extent. Of course, the people with the worst theories are often the most belligerent in their arguments...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Egwene

I almost agree with you Joiya, almost.... lol

 

The Adeleas thing was a bit of a let down for me as well. I thought it was another one of those plotlines that RJ seeed to be buiding up, but in the end decided to srap due to too much material and the calls for a faster pace from some quarters *sigh*

 

Mat? No... it would have been too much like hard work and Mat avoids that if he can :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...